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Beyond the veil: London's burka wearers go on the defensive
Nosheen Iqbal5 Nov 2010
Last month, Tory MP Baroness Warsi withdrew from making a speech defending the burka on international TV; an independent girls school in Tower Hamlets was vilified for including it as part of its school uniform; pop star MIA turned up to a Los Angeles awards ceremony wearing one, and two high-profile public debates on its significance were staged by the Institute of Ideas in London. Yesterday, Cherie Blair, whose sister Lauren Booth recently converted to Islam, stoked debate by declaring her support for women who choose to wear the headscarf (though she does not support covering the face).
But just what is it about the burka and the niqab — two types of face veil, the terms are often used interchangeably — that has so captured public and political attention?
Statistics on the number of women who wear the niqab in Britain are difficult to verify. Belgium has reportedly recorded 215 burka wearers and France estimates the number at anywhere between 367 and 2,000 of its five million Muslims.
But, anecdotally, the burka on the streets of London has become more common. Knightsbridge is home to plenty of wealthy Arab women who wear the veil in public, while in pockets of east London, some Muslim women work and travel almost unnoticed in niqabs. But does that really mean the city is becoming more “radicalised”?
Shaista Gohir, executive director of the Muslim Women's Network UK, is unconvinced: “No. The niqab, in the first place, is a minor phenomenon. Yes, Muslims are displaying their identity more overtly since 9/11 and 7/7 but they've also come under heavier political scrutiny. The veil has almost become a spiritual and physical shield.”
Gohir is one of the few Muslim women I've met who defends the right of any woman to wear what she pleases but who also admits that “the niqab is a barrier to communication, community relations and integration”.
Belgium became the first European country to outlaw the burka and French legislation now dictates that it is a criminal offence “to conceal one's face in public”.
But a report published last month by the think-tank Civitas suggests that in Britain at least, the veil should be accepted as part of a modern British way of life and be judged by practicality, not ideology. In contrast to Italy, Spain and the Netherlands, where state bans are being considered, the Civitas report (titled Women, Islam and Western Liberalism) recommends that unless the veil physically “hinders a citizen's ability to perform their public civic duties”, women alone should determine what they wear.
It's a point made repeatedly by the scores of Muslim women in London I interviewed.
At Friday prayers in the East London Mosque, dozens of women and girls from Somalian, Bangladeshi, and Pakistani heritage arrive in a diverse array of Islamic dress.
A group of teenage Bengali-speaking girls, all wearing hijabs (headscarves), skinny jeans and high-street dresses, giggle in a collective huddle when I ask why they choose to wear the headscarf. “'Cos we're Muslims,” says 16-year-old Zainab Zaman, suppressing a “durr!”. “And you can tell that instantly. That's our identity, it's who we are.”
Mishal Akhtar, 23, a part-time hijab wearer who works for a fashion magazine, believes wearing a headscarf can “actually be a bit punk. In your teens, in London, it's fashionable and cool — it's another accessory. It also marks you out and makes you belong at the same time. So yes, the appeal is really obvious.”
Fatima Barktulla, 31, a cheery pregnant mother of three boys who was born and grew up in Hackney, elaborates: “I started with the hijab, but when I got married I wanted to wear the niqab … It isn't a rejection of society, or an attempt to be different. It's not a political statement either.”
Does she feel it might be perceived as such? “No woman I know who wears a niqab is doing it to make a huge point. It's a personal, spiritual conviction. And I know that the niqab is a virtuous option and it is not obligatory.”
Barktulla, an Arabic studies lecturer, says that taking up the veil simply allows her to feel closer to God. “It doesn't contradict my being British either,” she insists. “I love this country — it's my home. Mine and my husband's parents come from India but it's alien to us.
People ask whether we wouldn't be better off living in an Islamic country' but it's only because we're brown-skinned and not part of the indigenous population. What would you say to the white English convert whose family has been here for centuries? Where would they go?”
Modesty in Islam is key for both men and women. But most Islamic scholars agree that the adoption of the full-face veil among Muslim women is more to do with culture than religion. Its purpose is to diminish a woman's sexual allure.
Yet perversely, it is arguable that by wearing one a woman is defining herself as little more than a sexual object. While in Riyadh a burka would go unnoticed, in London, a veiled Muslim woman attracts attention. I ask Barktulla if she doesn't feel that wearing one here contradicts its purpose.
“It's a different type of attention though,” says Barktulla. “On a day to day basis, it's really not that problematic. I don't think people stare at me in London any more.”
Does she place any legitimacy in Angela Merkel's recent comments about the failure of multiculturalism? “If multiculturalism really is a genuine desire to allow people to express themselves in their different ways, then it works,” she says. “If the idea was to allow immigrants to have their traditions and hope their kids would be wholly assimilated, then it doesn't. I don't think that was the idea though. This is a liberal democracy.”
Amoola Ismail, a 26-year-old British- Somalian care worker whose beautifully made-up eyes are all I can see over our coffee in Aldgate, agrees: “The irony is that when people get hot and bothered about Islam and criticise it for oppressing women and forcing them to cover up, they forget that removing any woman's individual right to choose makes them oppressors too.”
Ismail believes it's not just patronising but chauvinistic for the debate on burkas to be conducted in the press and among politicians without involving the women who actually wear them. “We're not delicate little creatures,” she scoffs. “We don't need to be saved. We need to be heard if they want to take this debate seriously and stop using it as a weapon to attack Islam.”
Not everyone sees the issue as a “clash of civilisations”. “We are a new culture here,” says Dr Riffat Majeed, a GP from Watford. “We're very British Muslims. I don't identify as being Pakistani like my parents. Our generation is taking advantage of the fact that we're living in the information age. When you grow up in the West, you question everything. You want to find out who you are, where you fit in. Having doubts and getting answers to those questions is perhaps why we're more religious than the first generation.”
Majeed believes Muslim immigrants in the Sixties and Seventies, practised “a more cultural form of Islam”, whereas now their offspring are better-informed and more observant. Majeed has worn the hijab for 13 years and a jilbab (a full-length cloak) for almost the last decade, inspiring her mother to do the same. I ask if she ever feels restricted by her self-imposed uniform — whether she misses dressing up?
“It's not like you get locked away and you're like an old woman; I still dress up. We have a lot of family and social dos. Women are segregated outside of close family events so I get my hair done, have my nice outfit and jewellery on but I don't resent my choices. It hasn't limited me, it feels natural.”
Maryam El Hajbi, a 24-year-old British-Moroccan researcher working for the anti-extremism think-tank Quilliam, believes the bigger problem is “the way in which the debate has become politicised. The niqab has been taken out of context and is being used as an ideological tool, an excuse to talk about immigration, integration or the failure of multiculturalism.”
El Hajbi finds it difficult to understand the feminist position that many veiled women maintain on account of the niqab making them feel empowered, but respects their choice. “A state ban would be totally counter-productive. The only real issue is where women or girls — such as at the school in Tower Hamlets — are forced to wear it.”
The Madani School for Girls has so far refused to speak to the press about its policy — niqabs for pupils aged 11-18 are mandatory on the journey to and from school.
The headmistress, Mrs Amra Bone, tells me it might be time to set some facts straight: “First, this policy has been in place since 1991, when the school was set up,” she explains. “It's not new. Second, the uniform was already under review and subject to potential change before [the press attention]. The girls don't have to wear niqabs in school and lots of them don't put them on until they reach the school gates.”
Mrs Bone admits she doesn't personally agree with the niqab but she says the school will continue its review with staff, students, parents and its management committee and will not be pressured by headlines.
Even so, the controversy around the veil remains. A guest at a debate on religious tolerance at the Battle of Ideas conference last weekend, said the sight of women wearing them in London made her feel violently sick. Another questioned whether moral relativism and liberalism were acceptable excuses to ignore the so-called “threat [burkas] pose to civil society”.
Whether one agrees with the choice London Muslims make (when they do choose) to cover their faces or not is irrelevant; protecting the freedom to allow that choice is a basic tenet of British life.
Some names have been changed.
Reader views (67)
Sorry, Lil - see my comment below. I cannot respect someone who is culturally retarded and who has chosen to marginalise themselves from the rest of society. Their rudeness in covering up their faces does not deserve respect. Showing respect to others is a basic tenet of British culture and the fact that these women and, I would add, hoodies who hide their faces do not respect others says everything. I cannot see a beautiful person behind a mask. I see someone who is saying I do not want to be part of your society.
- Jonathan, Harrow UK, 18/11/2010 17:27
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To those who are totally against the wearing of the face veil. Why not take a chance to have dialogue with a Niqabi because seriously you will be surprised.
Instead of seeing the veil as a barrier you will start to see the beautiful person beyond the veil. One of my best friends wears the Niqab and did so out of her own free will. She is also a convert. When I see and greet her in the street I forget she has the veil on because I see the beautiful persona beyond the veil. I have also seen how she interacts with people and she has the most excellent interpersonal skills. Mind you she works in PR and the veil is no barrier.
Furthermore, if there was a pandemic that was rife and everyone had to wear face veils, we would not be even be having this debate.
Please remember We are so downtrodden in the reccession right now, that politicians are picking on minorities as scapegoats to distract us from real issues like rising unemployment etc. I am more concerned with the jobs situation right now than
anything else.
Give these veiled women a chance and at least try to understand their viewpoint.
- Lil, London, 17/11/2010 21:48
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The burqa is sexist. End of.
- John Smith, London, 13/11/2010 23:07
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Personally, I tend to agree with those who feel that the entire idea of covering one's face has its roots in dehumanizing women. Perhaps the role the hijab plays now is different, but as has been said, you can bet it wasn't a woman's idea.
I believe that the original intent of the burka/hijab/niquab was to reduce the likelihood that unrelated males would have impure sexual impulses. It was imposed by a patriarchal society to secret women away from society and hide their individual personalities.
If you'll remember, women in the era of Mohammed were liberated by Islam, and encouraged to work, interact in society, and exercise unprecedented liberties. It was only with the advent of shariah law that the whole veil-wearing business came up. So I reject the premise that this issue is intrinsically liked with religious freedom. Sounds to me like shariah law is making its way into western communities, and I take issue with that as a woman.
- Anna, NC, USA, 11/11/2010 19:59
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To scotty- read "From My Sisters Lips" by Naima B Robert. She's a British woman who CHOSE to wear the face veil. She's also confident, very intelligent and editor of a magazine. I'd like to see you continue your ridiculous speech about how they are all forced to wear it after you read that book - it was 100% her own choice and you need 2 stop generalising. They are not all forced. They wear it out of deotion to God. Each to their own. Live and let live.
- Hannah, London, England, 11/11/2010 01:38
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Lets remember the function of the burkha is to help men contain their sexual feelings!!
Men should be mature enough to do that and have enough self respect to understand women can wear what they want.The burkha is a symbol of women's oppression and it certainly wasn't invented by a woman.
The same idealogy allows women to be stoned for 'adultery'. It is a tragic symbol and an indictment of Muslim men. Most of the women who wear it are saying 'look at me a good girl' i think its clled the stockholm syndrome - identifying with the persecutor.Heartbreaking!
- mpc, london, 10/11/2010 18:55
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To have your face covered, especially when you are talking to someone, is plain bad manners. It is wrong. Every child is taught that. And I daresay that those who hide their faces from others would be seriously offended if the person they were talking to told them that, for cultural reasons, they were able to converse only if they turned their back on them. Bad manners are not ‘a basic tenet of British life’. Nor, do I suspect, are those same bad manners a basic tenet of life in the densely populated Muslim suburbs of Bradford or Blackburn. They are certainly not a basic tenet of life for the *hundreds* of Muslims I have worked with over the years. And not one of them has *ever* covered their face at work.
Face to face communication is probably the most powerful method of conveying meaning to a listener. Look at the face of the person you are talking with and, together, your facial expressions can convey very clearly not just the meaning of what you are saying but, more importantly, the whole range of emotions behind those words. Joy, laughter, surprise, sadness and fear are diminished by the cloak of a mask and I do not wish to be prevented from experiencing those emotions by a curtain portcullis. I would rather those who would deny me that human experience e-mailed me instead.
Balaclavas, hoodies, burkas. I don’t like any of them. Tolerance, which is a basic tenet of British culture, does not extend to those whose behaviour or dress sense undermines our right to feel safe walking down our streets and living in our homes.
- Jonathan, Harrow UK, 10/11/2010 13:22
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MickinLondon - love your comment that we should all wear balaclavas to frighten them back! Classic!
- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx, 10/11/2010 11:37
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I just can't understand why so many people get so wound up about this issue: Why does it matter to you if some women choose to cover their faces? What harm does it do to you? Nobody should be forced to wear, or not to wear, any particular garment: It is a basic human right that is recognised and protected by law in this country - freedom of expression. If you justify banning burqas and niqabs, what will you say if, in the future, a growing number of people want to ban ties, or trousers, or tattoos?! Leave people alone, and they will leave you alone. Sorted!
- Adam, London, UK, 09/11/2010 18:13
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Only in the last 5 years have we seen a rise of burkha's. Muslim women have become more militant. We do want freedoms in our country....freedom to SEE who we are dealing with!!!
- English born and bred, England, 08/11/2010 17:58
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How can you have a conversation with someone who has their face covered? Where do you look if you can't look into another person's eyes? Eye contact is fundamental to communication.
- R Smith, Toronto, Canada, 08/11/2010 17:11
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N. Annies - the problem is this:
we don't believe you.
- Scotty, London, 08/11/2010 15:46
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Whats really hard to believe is that men and women dont realise that a womon would really choose to wear what she wants to wear including covering herself up.
The middle eastern countries have never said that they are a free and democratic country.
The UK has claimed it is a 'free' and democratic counrty.
So we are free to wear whatever we want, including hijab, miniskirts, hotpants and niqab/ burka etc
It is a womans choice and some of you (esp the men) need to get over yourself. If a woman wants to cover herself so what? if she wants to wear a miniskirt what is it to you? (except you get a free show?) and is that whats really buggin you?
how many times have i heard from women that they used to wear whatever they wanted when they were single but as soon as they hooked up with a boy/ man he wanted them to not wear that particular miniskirt round his mates!
double standards. shes free to wear what she wants as long as her man approves of it.
yes some women CHOOSE to wear a hijab/ niqab. so what.
grow up. get over it and get on with your life.
for those who think it causes problems, have you ever spoken to a blind person? or a visually imparied person? they couldn't see your face but i am sure they can manage to understand you and hear you. how about talking to someone on the phone? you cant see their face either, you couldnt see their facial expression, could you not understand them?
- N. Annies, London England, 08/11/2010 12:30
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Personal i believe we should be allowed to dress as we think fit.
But what beats me,is why anybody would wont to identify with some religion or other!but it has to be said,i would rather those women who choose to cover there face,would choose not to,in solidarity with those poor woman unfortunate enough to be born in Iran,Somalia,Yemen,Saudi Arabia etc etc who are imprisoned are maybe going to be stoned to death on some trumpt up charge by some out raged male whos advances she rejected!I think these young girls who chose to wear such a uniform, that is a visible sign of oppression would do better and would be respected more if they flatly refused to have anything to do with the religion of death and oppression,as indeed all religions are. I think these woman are no more than sheep and cowards that are just trying to make out it is there choice to wear the full veil,when infact it is dictated that they will wear it,because that is there culture and they are Muslim.If they really wonted to make a statement they would reject there religion. First and foremost you are a human being.your religious belief is irrelevant.But to do that would really make a statement,and that takes guts,guts they have not got evidently. I look on them with pity.
- Kev, London-UK, 08/11/2010 12:21
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hard to believe anyone could be so naive and ignorant to think women would choose to wear the burka out of choice.
its not a central tenet of islam, but of an out-dated patriachal society where women are seen as the property of men.
to argue that a woman chooses to cover up, is like arguing a young catholic boy chose to become involved with a paedo priest.
- Scotty, London, 08/11/2010 12:00
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".. thats how integrated they were, what happened to them, oh yeah they got massacred and raped on a massive scale."
- N. Annies, London England
That has to be one of the most perverse arguments so far. A little disturbing even.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 08/11/2010 11:36
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A british woman is not allowed to wear a mini skirt on the high street in Saudia Arabia,Dubai,Qatar etc we should respect their culture and they ours.
- George, London, 07/11/2010 18:59
Interesting comment, you obviously have never been to these countries, because the Europeans and all other westerners who go to these countires, prance about in bikinis and miniskirts speedoes (so gross get some long shorts dude!) and any other clothes they feel like.
Whenever i have been to some of these countries i have never seen a westerner don a hijab or niqab because they wanted to follow the when in rome do as the romans do line of thought.
infact they were less clothing in Dubai than in their own countires because it is so much warmer.
what erxactly is the British?English culture is there a difference? beer drinking? someone dies lets go to the pub, someone gets married lets go to the pub? lets all just go to the pub? etc etc.
As for the :
Assimilate and integrate or get out.
- Frank, Home Counties,
this comment is a joke, how often are we going to here this nonsense. the Bosnians (remember them?) where totally integrated and assimilated, you would have been hard pushed to find a burka over there, thats how integrated they were, what happened to them, oh yeah they got massacred and raped on a massive scale.
- N. Annies, London England, 08/11/2010 10:54
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I'm not interested in the "when in Rome" argument. The problem with covering the face is that it is profoundly distubring to a lot of people (whatever the societty) for the good reason that we have evolved a large part of our brains to read faces (the same problem arises with any mask). It is for that reason and others also very isolating for women. They canmnot interact with wider society and that is damaging for them and for the rest of us. So face coverings are in a class of their own: and there are good arguments to discourage their use e.g. for a banin public places.
- Alan J, London, 08/11/2010 10:34
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As long as it's not harming anyone, then there should be choice. We live in a free country.
- kali, Glos, 08/11/2010 10:16
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As for the question of how women who wear niqaab get through passport control: Passport and other ID photos are taken without a face veil and in times when identification is required, they show their faces to the individual who needs to verify their identity. There are exceptions for cases like this and it's ridiculous to assume otherwise. Doing so shows your lack of knowledge on the topic.
As for women who wear niqaab stealing... A woman who is wearing it is anything but inconspicuous so stealing would be a difficult feat and this is obviously not a trend so I don't see the point in mentioning it. Items of value would set off an alarm and the thief would be caught and processed like any other.
I don't know how it is anyone's business but the woman's what she decides to wear in public. It can't be oppressive if these women are choosing to wear these things themselves and the article notes that the parents weren't staunch practitioners of their religion so it wasn't something which was thrust upon their children.
One can wear niqaab and still have friends (Muslim and non-Muslim) and go shopping and out for coffee with the girls or whatever. This clothing doesn't stop a person from living their life and having fun nor does it infringe on other peoples' rights or abilities to go out and live their own lives.
- Stacey, Jeddah, KSA, 08/11/2010 00:44
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Thierry, you hit the nail on the head, When in Rome. A british woman is not allowed to wear a mini skirt on the high street in Saudia Arabia,Dubai,Qatar etc we should respect their culture and they ours. This is coming from an Irish person living in london who does respect British culture and all that Britain has given to him, why can these muslims not do the same
- George, London, 07/11/2010 18:59
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It would appear that as a fully enrolled English person I am not allowed to say what I think , so much for the freedom I speech I spent twelve years in the navy protecting.
- davey-buoy, Chertsey, 07/11/2010 17:38
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No one is forcing the entire British population to wear it. It's a choice of some muslim women to wear it and it is optional. stop your scaremongering based on nothing more than ignorance and a baseless sense of superiority.
- me2, London, 07/11/2010 17:05
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Wearing one of these all over coverings is barbaric, mediaevial and has no place at all in a modern society. Tolerance is all very well but that can be taken advantage of and before we know it we will all be subject to sharia law. Don't give an inch is my opinion.
- fanta, London UK, 07/11/2010 09:38
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Many muslim countries ban the face veil. The most Senior Saudi Arabia Prince says it is unacceptable, no face should be covered. There is nothing in the koran, or anything spiritual about hiding your face. The only reasons are political and social, to control women, isolate muslims and intimidate others.
Muslim countries ban it as it challenges social order, indicating support to more radical muslim ideas such as killing any who waver islam, or who are opposed to islamic purity.
It hides identity and prevents integration. It intimidates others. There are numerous cases of the face veil used for criminal purposes.
Muslim claim it is freedom of choice to wear it. They ignore the freedom of others not to be intimidated and wider society not to be divided.
Essentially it is a crude cloaking of a female to hide her from other men. The culture is from arab tribes c.500AD who hid women from other men as they were valued assets for work and breeding. Other men would steal them if they thought they were good looking.
It is a sad nasty culture keeping women as slaves. The poor still are slaves across the Middle East and these ignorant people are encouraging it.
- takeyy, bethnal green, 07/11/2010 09:20
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"Assimilate and integrate or get out"... The problem is Frank that a lot of people come to this country and see self appointed little bigots like you and decide they don't want to assimilate with people like that. I don't blame them.
- NJ, London, 05/11/2010 13:42
Been out to the Middle East over the last 10years? I would to know how you think it would go if the English went there with your views.
- Matt Playford, London, 07/11/2010 03:15
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Frank - someone posted the link to this on Facebook. I mentioned there is usually this bigoted bloke who blames everything on Muslims who calls himself "Frank, Home Counties" who must have commented. You didn't let me down.
Charlie - they get through passport control by removing their veil, they see it as acceptable to be seen when asked for official purposes i.e. passport control, police checking driving licenses etc.
Our Friend in Canada - wearing a niqab is to "manipulate the system"? Really, in what way? So they can claim "niqabi benefit"? What nonsense. And IF loads of niqabis went around harassing people or shoplifting then the comparison to gangs of 'hoodies' would be valid... but the don't, do they? So, it's a pathetic comparison.
Newspaniard - what about the girls who wear clothes bordering on pornographic and have sex at earlier ages based on peer pressure? They also are being pressured to do things against their will? We should be concerned about any woman pressured to dress in a way they do not wish to. I never did see that piece of research which demonstrated that most niqabi women were forced into wearing it. Any link to such a piece of research our friend in Cadiz?
John Smith - if the Burka isn't sexist why don't men wear it? More excellent logic. If the boob tube or high heels aren't sexist why aren't men wearing it? An illogical question? Yes. Just like yours.
Congratulations to the world of ignorance and bigotry on this pa
- STG, London, England (yes, not Canada or Cadiz but LONDON), 06/11/2010 21:56
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I find it strange that people who don’t wear the burka nor really know anything about it are commenting on it being oppressive and whatnot. How many of you have actually spoken to a Muslim woman who wears it and asked her opinions on it?
Pippa: Absolutely infuriated reading your remark! What are narrow minded attitude to have! Just due to someone being dressed in way that you don’t like you thinks it ok to bypass common courtesy and good manners towards a woman who has done absolutely nothing to you personally! Ridiculous!
- Afsha, London, 06/11/2010 21:26
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Burqa is more common in the UK than in France, where far more Muslim reside, why? It’s not that France has proposed a ban, but even prior to the ban, its Muslim citizen wears far less burqa than British Muslims. It’s because French Muslim are far more integrated than over here and the British government allowed face veils in every sphere of public life, giving licence to extremists groups to preach it. Even in native South Asia, face veils are rare, and the main reason they wear it in countries like Bangladesh, it’s to prevent men from making rude comments or sexually harassing them.
My main concern is that burqa women would not integrate and can’t take full part in British society. How would veil women take part in sport or have a mainstream career that involves talking to many people. The devout Muslim women wear it but they’ve been influenced by hardline Arab sect, which rejects western values but loves its freedom, which is not available in any Muslim country. I know some men force their wives to wear it, in East London, due to fear that other men might look at their young beautiful wife and are jealous that they might lose her. I support a ban on it.
- Azad Miah, London, 06/11/2010 21:21
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I bumped into one of these females in the street yesterday, almost knocking her over and I didn't say sorry. After all, if she doesn't want to be seen that's fine by me, I won't see her.
- Pippa, London, 05/11/2010 15:57
Disgusting behaviour. Be ashamed of yourself.
- Nora Kane, London, 06/11/2010 17:54
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They have no choice in what they wear as these women are viewed as the property of the man they are married to. But it should not be allowed in Britain for a variety of reasons.
- Marie, London, 06/11/2010 12:32
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If Islamic customs are so good for a country, why are the majority Islamic countries such deserts and sinkholes? Might it have something to do with their unworkable religion?
- Sue R, London, 06/11/2010 11:24
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Oh, you got to love the niqab wearing women. Its like a signal that says i am not a bit of meat for you to lear at, and decide i am fair game to be chatted up and flirted at by every tom dick and harry. But all those uncovered natives, if they are anyway half decent , the first thing you think is how do i get my wicked way with her. Liberated western women , indeed. More like a forced to look sexy otherwise can't get a promotion and no one will like me, as my role is there to provide titillation for every tom dick and harry
- warey, london, 06/11/2010 10:27
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NJ of London - can you tell me why we should tolerate an intolerant, misogynistic religion? And the manifestation of it? It is all very well getting on your moral high horse but completely disguised women, in order to spare men the horrible temptation of their fatal beauty, is neither a modern concept or a Christian one. And, unless I am mistaken, this is till a Christian country. I agree with Frank - assimiliate or - if you don't like the prevailing ethos - leave and go somewhere where you do.
- fanta, London UK, 06/11/2010 09:42
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And the debate continues!
It's simple really. In the early days women wore veils too.Some wore them over the rim of their hats and still do at times. A veil is worn with bridal apparel.Some ladies wear it to a funeral. And I don't mean Muslim ladies.
It's called modesty! Muslim women dress modestly amongst strangers,but in private and with family and friends,they show their finery. They're no different to anyone else. Yes, they wear make-up, jewellery, high heeled sandals,coloured contacts, the works. But when they step out, they cover themselves, just like you do, except they cover more.
Why is that concept so hard to understand?
At the airports and through security, they simply take off their veil for the officer, at each point needed, and that is that.No big thing.
Do you know it is far more easier for a woman NOT to wear a veil than to wear one? So think, why would she? Becasue she is doing it for spiritual reasons, for her Creator. She troubles no one, and hopes no one troubles her. Oh and she can talk, believe it or not.
And hear and feel too. Yes, even with the veil on, she can see.
Try wearing a veil for a day. See the sacrifice that goes into wearing one. Maybe then you will be sympathetic towards veiled women for being brave and strong enough to follow their hearts, despite all the criticisms.
Modesty is encouraged in all the major religions.That people are not as modest as they ought to, should be the real cause of concern.
Don't judge nor condemn.
- Nasiha, Caribbean, 06/11/2010 03:11
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The prophets wives use to wear the niqab/burka,and Muslims should follow the practice of the prophet, companions and family at the time.
The whole reason for wearing the niqab/burka is so women aren't judged on their looks in public, it gives women more freedom, not oppression, we wont need to worry about how we look everyday in the mirror; makeup, hair, wrinkles, etc
In our society women are portrayed to be beautiful and well groomed to be at the top or be the best. Or use as sex objects in advertising industry to sell something just put a sexy lady half nude in the advert and you'll get a sale. The niqab is there to protect the women from all of this, Islam is about prevention from all the harm that can come from this.
Islam doesn't want women to be used a sex objects and want them to freely to about their jobs and lives without society judging them on their looks rather look inside what their personality has to offer.
It is fine for niqab wearers for security reason to show their face when asked.
so what is the problem of wearing a niqab it is a religious and a personal choice which doesn't attack anyone, and how the hell does it mean a person is radicalised?!
the terrorist who are suicide bombers are not Muslims, Islam says you will go to hell for killing yourself, and you are not allowed to kill innocent people, or women or children in war, i suggest everyone to read the quran to find out the real truth about Islam than all this propaganda the media portray.
- Si, London, 06/11/2010 00:59
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There is no place for the Burka in British society.
Those who choose to wear it should go and live in a muslim state. We would not miss them here.
- Abogado, Manchester, 06/11/2010 00:16
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I have never been rude, commited a crime or abused anyone. I live by good manners and I uphold good values.Im married and educated and pride myself in working hard on my family, neighbours and community. My only crime is that I don the veil.
If im out with my small children and someone is abusive to me, then how can I be the terrorist? Its either ignorence due to far too much hype and media coverage or its a platform for racists to be racist!
The veil has been given too much attention and isnt really a big deal. The women who wear it dont cause any harm and just want to generally be left alone. Perhaps its time the criminal was bought to account and not the victim.btw...
- We go thro security everyday - just get a female to check. Much of the Arab world functions while the women veil.
- We were not forced to wear it - in fact are being forced to remove it simply cos people believing lies and forming opinions rather than hearing the truth.
- U Ahmed, London, UK, 06/11/2010 00:15
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I wear a burka and am white english that goes back who knows how many generations. Where would you bigots pack me off to? Freedom to fress as you choose thats what i grew up with, whether it be covered from head to toe or in a bikini.
I choose towear it, no one forces me. I have the right to wear what I like, how I like. If you ask me its modern women that are opressed, made to fit into the role of being a certain size and shape, to be attractive to men and work with what they have. I choose to be valued for what I can do, for my intelligence and not whether happen to please some mans eyes. Being a slave to fashion and the beauty industry and mens ideals are the real oppression.
I've lived on both sides of the fence, becoming a muslim in my 20's and having lived the life of a modern western woman and the life of a vieled muslim woman I know which one is liberated and whoch is oppressed.
- carol, London, 06/11/2010 00:12
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@John Smith,
The Burka is NOT sexist and has nothing to do with what a man does or does not do... Women wear it by choice ALL OVER THE WORLD and millions of Muslim women don't. That was a feeble attempt at picking apart my faith... By the way, if mini skirts and hip hugger jeans aren't sexist, why don't you see men wearing them?
- Jalil, Tulsa, OK, USA, 06/11/2010 00:06
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Wearing the burqa is not a sign of oppression or control. It is a sign of liberation. When I first became a Muslim I was terrified because I had no idea what people would say. This is not the best country to be a Muslim in these days. But after some time, I decided to wear a hijab, not because I was being forced to. But because I wanted to totally surrender myself to God and to my husband only. I felt liberated. The burqa is the same for me. For a woman to wear one in this society takes far more guts and freedom so we Muslim women are not oppressed.
- Mia, USA, 05/11/2010 22:22
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How do these women wearing full face veil get the sun on their bodies and build up their vitamin D? I think they look ridiculous anyway. If muslim men had to wear some sort of veil with slits for the eyes (which of course they will not) it would be like criminals wearing balaclavas to disguise themselves.
- Missnoma, St Helier, 05/11/2010 21:31
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Do these people realise where they are ? I have never seen anything so stupid, this has to be a joke,!!!!
- davey-buoy, Chertsey, 05/11/2010 20:13
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Whoa, for a moment I thought I was reading comments on the Daily Mail site. I can't believe this is such an issue. How does someone wearing a burqa impact your life? WHO CARES? GET OVER IT you hateful, nasty people. In no way on my daily routine does someone wearing burqa impact my life, and you know why? Because I'm not a bigot.
- Belle, London, 05/11/2010 19:44
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Is this not a manufactured religion ? Their book, the koran, I understand does not demand this silly dress code. It makes our streets look nasty.
- michael, London, UK, 05/11/2010 18:57
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Non Muslims will be in the minority unless a stand is taken in the next decades within this country.
Many of us think it but we are all to scared to say it in case we are ridiculed by the acedemics and liberals.
It'l be a case of told you so.
But hey lets build the biggest Mosque in Europe in London and then allow the funding to go through the Bank of England and we might get out of recession?
- Martin, Herts UK, 05/11/2010 18:38
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It is against the human rights. We should not descriminate the other human being. It is their personal like and dislike. Some muslim ladies did not perfer burkha, it is up to them. But we should not give up our values. We must respect our values in multicultural society. There was no issue last 40 or 50 years who it is politicise now. What is the issue behind this meaningless discussion. It is cry over split milk.
- Sular, Streatham, London, 05/11/2010 18:34
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My Gawd, bigoted comments all..They are much happy when their girls expose their thighs and undies..Why fight the Muslim women who are 'oppressed'? Fight with the menfolk mate!
- Ahmad, Londres, 05/11/2010 18:30
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NJ London (13.42)
No! Frank isn't "a self appointed little bigot". He says bluntly what almost all of us who are genuine Britons (that's excluding those who've merely obtained a British passport) would say and think.
There may be many reasons in theory why women wear those garments, or why they don't. Some are mentioned in this elaborate article.
The real issue is far, far simpler.
The face is the only way any human can recognise another human. If it is covered then the wearer cannot be recognised. In civilised Western society it is both impolite, impractical and even dangerous not to be able to recognise and identify another fellow being.
There is no point at all in Muslims trying to justify using a garment which by all accounts began as mere protection against sun and sand, and thence developed into a statement of womens' position under a "faith" or religion which has little or no basis in scientific or historical fact. Women all over the world live sensibly and properly without covering themselves in that way. Muslims would do well to apply normal standards to the issue, not Islamic standards.
- James de la mare, London England, 05/11/2010 17:24
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"protecting the freedom to allow that choice is a basic tenet of British life."
Biased rubbish.
If the burka/niqab aren't sexist then why aren't Muslim men ever seen wearing them?
- John Smith, London, 05/11/2010 16:56
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i say take the Burka off and let us see who you really are. The British are always bending over backwards to help others but forget their own. People in the UK get intimidated by hoodie gangs of youngsters do you not think wearing a Burka is pretty much the same. its got nothing to do with the religion its about what they can achieve and gain from manipulating the system think about it they don't want to change for us why should we change for them.
But dont think the UK is the only one with problems i moved to Canada two years ago and they have same issues here the immigration in Canada is horrendous
- concerned ex squaddie, Toronto Canada, 05/11/2010 16:47
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I bumped into one of these females in the street yesterday, almost knocking her over and I didn't say sorry. After all, if she doesn't want to be seen that's fine by me, I won't see her.
- Pippa, London, 05/11/2010 15:57
Oooooh Pippa - you so baaaaadd!! lol (laughiing at you not with you, incase you thought any different) 
- ishi, South London, 05/11/2010 16:41
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How do they get through passport control?
- Charlie, London, 05/11/2010 16:38
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Theres nothing wrong with burqa wearing women. They just get on with things like the rest of us. Iv met a few and many are fashion conscious beautiful women amongst the company of women/husband/brothers they dress really nicely, often with western clothing. But outside in he company of men they cover their beauty. Whats wrong with that? Do men really feel hreatened by these women? Oh come on britain! I pity the nation wer becoming! Travel on the london tube/bus and seepregnant women, elderly women, women with small babies having to stand up and no one offering them a seat!! These are the women should worry about...the young teenage pregnant girls whose partners hae left them, or generally single parent women with no family and little support...who cares about these urqa weaing women, many who have stable households, family and community.
- claire, london, 05/11/2010 16:32
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I think it is a form of oppression and supression against women and it should be banned,
- Mo, London, 05/11/2010 15:57
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I bumped into one of these females in the street yesterday, almost knocking her over and I didn't say sorry. After all, if she doesn't want to be seen that's fine by me, I won't see her.
- Pippa, London, 05/11/2010 15:57
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That is fine to forbid yougsters wearing a hoodie when, for 99% of them, it is it is no more than a fashion statement, but it would be a crime against civil or religious liberties to forbid the burka. Why?
If anything, the burka hides a person far better than a hoodie.
Time to go back to basis: when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Although I could do with 3 or 4 wives ...
- Thierry, London, 05/11/2010 15:35
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I am totally against all you bigots and support passionately the right of Cherie Blair to wear the burka.
- Stephen C, London, 05/11/2010 14:25
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"Assimilate and integrate or get out"... The problem is Frank that a lot of people come to this country and see self appointed little bigots like you and decide they don't want to assimilate with people like that. I don't blame them.
- NJ, London, 05/11/2010 13:42
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mickinlondon is right. If all the shoplifters adopted this fashion what would happen. After all when "someone" in a long robe and covered face approaches you, how do you know if it is a religious woman or a criminal with a gun? Or a skinny shoplifter with good day's haul.
- marina davis, aberdeen uk, 05/11/2010 13:35
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This article doesn't mention those women who wish to assimilate and yet are threatened and bullied if they don't wear the Darth Vader outfits.
- Newspaniard, Cadiz, Spain, 05/11/2010 13:24
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If those who died defending our freedoms were around today, they would surely tell you that it wasnt to replace one form of nazism with another.
Burka wearing is demeaning if the wearers don't see it that way and I personally refuse to deal with anyone in such a getup.
- PeterR, London, 05/11/2010 13:16
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It all seems very confused. The fundamental force of religion is control and the pressure to comply is ingrained at an early age. If the next generation are asking more questions, then they are asking the wrong questions.
- Alex C, London, 05/11/2010 13:00
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I think everyone should wear a face mask, as a male, I find lots of people do not like me wearing a balaclava on the streets, but if everyone wore one, then even the pro burka wearers would soon demand that we stop wearing balaclava's as it frightens them, and they feel unsafe not knowing who is following them, or who they are talking to.
It would also be good for all the cameras on the streets, as all the watchers would be worried, or wondering who they were looking at, and would only be able to tell the authorities that is was a human in a mask that did it.
This would all be legal under the law, and everyone would be equal; which is fair in my opinion.
Mask the Nation, and be done with it all, once and for all.
- mickinlondon., london, 05/11/2010 12:55
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"Some names have been changed."
Says it all.
Assimilate and integrate or get out.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 05/11/2010 12:35
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If the bastion of secularism - Syria, feels it necessary to ban this coffin proxy then there must be a strong justification for doing so in the Home of the Anglican church. Praise to the Lord - the only god.
- Andy, London, 05/11/2010 12:18
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Is it just an exuse to hide a face that might frighten
you to death?
- Richard, Rayleigh, 05/11/2010 11:38
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