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England and Scotland: a disunited kingdom
Last updated at 00:22am on 12.01.07
Great Britain: the voters give their verdict (click on enlarge to see the questions and their answers)
A majority of voters in both Scotland and England want the countries to split.
Failing that, both think England should have a Parliament of its own deciding on English affairs without any involvement of Scottish MPs.
The poll findings demonstrate deep and potentially fatal cracks in the 300-year union of the two countries, and threaten to present Gordon Brown with a constitutional crisis if he becomes Prime Minister.
In a further blow to Mr Brown, a majority in both countries want him to call an election within a year of coming to power, to secure his own mandate from the voters.
The ICM survey of attitudes on the Union and nationality was commissioned by the Daily Mail in advance of next week's 300th anniversary of the ratification of the treaty which bound Scotland and England together.
It shows that nearly half of those polled think the arrangement is unlikely to survive more than 25 years.
Two out of three English voters want an end to the subsidies paid to Scotland, and a majority want to end the anomaly that gives Scots MPs at Westminster a say over legislation which affects only England.
The results suggest that Mr Brown's first months in office after succeeding Tony Blair later this year will be dominated by a massive constitutional headache. There will be crucial elections in Scotland in May and the Chancellor is braced for a damaging rejection in his own back yard as voters prepare to throw out Labour and turn to the nationalists.
The ICM survey finds a majority of voters in both countries want him to call an early election to secure his own mandate against David Cameron's Tories.
Pressure to go to the polls will intensify if he finds himself leading a party that not only failed to command a majority of votes in England at the last general election, but has been defeated in its Scottish heartland.
Mr Brown will also be disappointed that the poll indicates his attempts to promote the idea of Britishness have fallen on deaf ears on both sides of the border.
Just 31 per cent of people in England say they are British first, and only 15 per cent in Scotland.
And despite a decade of constitutional tinkering by Labour, the survey fails to record a significant level of enthusiasm for devolution in Scotland. Fewer than 40 per cent of Scots say it has been a good thing, while the level of approval in England is even lower.
With recent polls showing the Scottish National Party building a lead against Labour in the race for power at Holyrood, the Mail's survey confirms that pressure for Scottish independence is building inexorably.
It shows that more than half of Scots - 51 per cent - want Scotland to break away. So do 48 per cent of English respondents, again a clear majority of those who expressed an opinion one way or the other.
There is even stronger support for an English parliament, with 51 per cent backing the move in England and 58 per cent in Scotland.
And there was solid backing for England to have its own Prime Minister or First Minister - 54 per cent in England and 62 per cent in Scotland.
Among the English, 53 per cent want Scots MPs at Westminster to be barred from voting on issues that affect England only, such as health and education. A majority of Scots who expressed a view also want to see Scots MPs' voting rights restricted.
Nearly two out of three voters want Mr Brown to call an election within a year of taking over.
Monday marks 300 years since the Treaty of Union was passed by Parliament. The 300th anniversary of the Act of Union itself will be marked on May 1 - just two days before Scots go to the polls.
A Labour-led coalition has run Scotland since the first elections for the Scottish parliament in 1999. But voters have been turning away in droves and now appear ready to elect the SNP, which has pledged a referendum on independence.
Although Mr Cameron has promised to defend the Union, he has also called for reforms to address the so-called West Lothian Question - which asks why Scots MPs are able to vote on purely English matters at Westminster while English MPs no longer have a say on Scottish domestic affairs.
Asked about the future of the Union at the weekend, Mr Brown told the BBC Sunday AM programme: "I know that England is 85 per cent of the Union. And England at any point can outvote the rest of the Union.
"The reason why we had devolution was to recognise the different views and the decision-making processes in some other parts of the country. But at the end of the day this is a Union that is built around an England that is 85 per cent of the Union."
He added: "Let's not forget the strengths of the United Kingdom, and let's also not forget that a policy of English votes for English laws would in the end break up the United Kingdom, because the executive would have to owe its authority to simply the English members."
Reader views (16)
Here's a sample of the latest views published.
We need to stop Labour carving England up into regions. We need to give England her own parliament. Then we can worry about the EU. As far as the 'union' is concerned, I've never felt united with Scotland or Wales so the sooner we split the sooner we stop getting blamed for all their ills... and let's face it, it's inevitable. The union serves no purpose.
- John S, Hants, England
"... a policy of English votes for English laws would in the end break up the United Kingdom, because the executive would have to owe its authority to simply the English members."
What a small-minded man Brown is! How about a federal structure? An English Parliament representing English people to decide English Law, and a British (possibly upper chamber) to decide common areas such as defence for the whole Union. The executive could owe its authority to a separate vote - it's already presidential in style and substance, why not in theory too? Does he not see that devolution to everyone but the English is totally unsustainable, and that redressing the balance so that the English are no longer ruled by a minority of Scots even on matters that only affect the English is the only way the English will support the Union. Especially given the amount of Government spending per head in Scotland compared to the rest of the country, financed by the English, a subsidy that Londoners in particular pay more than their fair share of!
- G, London
Let's see England freed from the yoke of both Scotland and Europe. Then we will see an English Renaissance which has been a long time in coming.
I am sick and tired of current rulling 'so-called' elite try to destroy England and its culture.
We English need to manage our own affairs and get our country back, so that all the inhabitants of our beautiful country can feel pride and so that children being born today in England no longer have to be divided by colour but feel connected by Englishness and a love of English art, poetry, literature, scientific discoveries, engineering feats. To help them discover the genius that every English person carried within them.
England needs to be saved from the people trying to destroy it. That's why the Union must end.
- Jane, Devon
Presumably, the United Kingdom was formed to serve some purpose? If the UK once was the solution to a problem, I think we need to ask if the same problem still exists and, if it does, whether the UK is still the best solution to that problem.
- Richard Hancock, Bracknell, Berkshire
As a member of a clan that was forced to leave Scotland in 1792 because they would not swear to support the King of England, I would suggest Scotland be given their freedom.
- T A Paul, West Palm Beach,Florida,USA
Let's have a referendum - but both in England and in Scotland. If the Scots really want to go their own way, let them. But it's important that the English get a say. If the Scots vote to stay in the UK (as I expect they would) and the English vote to get rid of them (quite likely) at least we'd have the satisfaction of having put several nails into the SNP's coffin.
By the way, that's what happened in Canada where the issue was Quebec independance.
- Nigel, London
The United Kingdom is dead.
Long live the English Kingdom.
- Stephen , Carlisle England
This isn't spurious politics or all the other guff about oil-money etc. It's about `bottle' and pride. If sufficient Scots have it, they'll push hard enough to attain their glorious Independence from the `auld enemy'.
I suspect, however, most of them are terrified of the nightmare that will come with their `freedom' - primarily the prospect of having to raise there own taxes to pay for what they have now, courtesy of the spin merchants at Westminster.
- Ted, Shetland
As a proud Englishman I would like independence from Scots with whom I have nothing in common. The nightmare scenario in the coming months is for Scotland to qualify for the European Championship files - although extremely unlikely!
- Roy Gilbert, Solihull, England
The Conservative policy of restricting voting at Westminster on English laws to those MPs who represent English constituencies is regarded as unworkable by most academics. Unless Unionists come up with an arrangement that offers fair treatment for England however the Union will fall apart. A devolved single-chamber English Parliament with an English executive, within the Union,would deal only with English domestic legislation. It would not threaten the Union, as Mr Blair claims, since there would also be a British Parliament representing the whole of the UK. It may be too late to save the Union if the Scots decide to break away after May 2007, but if the English are also disenchanted Labour's failure to offer England a devolved Parliament can only accelerate the break up. On becoming Prime Minister, Mr Brown should therefore offer the people of England a referendum on having their own Parliament.
- Ian Campbell, Horsley, England and Tiree, Scotland
Tony Blair's devolution of powers to Scotland in 2000 was all part of the plan to break-up the UK, as Christine says. Brussels knows that the UK as a whole would never go for accepting de jure provincial status in a referendum on an EU Constitution, so it (with Blair's full backing) goes for the back door of breaking the UK into nine regions, none of which are strong enough to resist further integration as little parts of the new superstate called the European Union.
When are Brits, be they Englanders or Scots, going to realize what is going on? Most Brits have blinders on. Whether or not you want to be a European instead of a Brit, you should have a clear say on the matter, not this constant deceit by the politicians trying (and seemingly succeeding!) to get it through by stealth.
Despite the usual comments to the contrary, Blair's party and the other two big parties would be very happy indeed if England and Scotland separated! That's the agenda.
- Phil Jones, London UK
A per head comparison of public expenditure is absurd given the relative size of Scotland and it's population to England. In fact Scotland more than pays its way with a fiscal surplus this year of £600m at a time when the UK has a budgetary deficit approaching £40bn.
Despite claims by the British Government to the contrary Scotland is more than capable of supporting and re-invigorating our own economy (despite the failures of Labour) and of investing more money in our public services. The false figures of Labour are encouraging English nationalism, so they only have themselves to blame.
The main argument for independence is a democratic one. Scotland is one tenth the size of England and therefore we are outvoted on every issue.
Since the majority of people in England and Scotland now think Scotland should be independent the Scots should now be given a democratic referendum on the issue. Those who argue against this democratic step have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Either because they would lose their seats in the UK parliament (like Gordon Brown and John Reid) or their seat in the House of Lords (the Lord Advocate).
- Joe Middleton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Given the apparent state of the Union, should we now make more use of the classic typing error, and start referring to ourselves as the "Untied Kingdom"?
- Ivan Tan, London WC UK
Well, if the English and the Scots both agree, where's the problem, as long of course as the English don't spend the next 50 years financing the Scots until their Economy catches up to the rest of Europe.
- Lloyd, London
There should be a referendum in England, Wales and Northern Ireland asking the question 'should Scotland be allowed to remain part of the Union?'
- Andrew, Cambridge
The Labour, Lib Dem and Tory party refuse to allow the free will of the English be expressed and will not allow either debate on the issue of devolution or a vote on devolution.
All three main parties want to destroy England as a nation state by trying to break her into 9 Euro Regions, without any discussion whatsoever. This is not democracy, this is treason and authoritarian bullying.
New Labour is trying to achieve something Hitler never did, the destruction not only of England, but of the United Kingdom as a whole.
New Labour are fully responsible for the incompetent management of the country and at the polls in May we urge the people of the United Kingdom in local polls and devolved polls to let tell New Labour what we think about them - rubbish!
- Christine Constable, Norwich
