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Did they have to kill my son, asks gunman barrister's father as it's revealed he was shot up to SEVEN times by police
Last updated at 00:37am on 09.05.08
Shot dead: Mark Saunders
The barrister killed during a stand-off with police marksmen was shot up to seven times, it was revealed today.
A post mortem showed he was hit repeatedly during the five-hour siege. Nine officers are believed to have shot at Mark Saunders as he fired his shotgun out of the window of his house in Markham Square in Chelsea, West London.
Earlier today, Mark Saunders' father questioned why police had needed to shoot his son.
Rodney Saunders said he did not believe his son necessarily posed a lethal threat.
Asked if he thought the lawyer might have killed someone, the 64-year-old said: "Put it this way, he didn't endanger anyone at all to my knowledge and we can only surmise what might have happened before the whole thing started.
"I just don't know. You would imagine that it will come out in the fullness of time. We will want answers as to why police shot him."
Mr Saunders added: "He was a warm and caring and loving son."
Meanwhile, his son's barrister wife Elizabeth Clarke tonight denied she had had a row with her husband immediately before the tragic events of Tuesday night.
There had been claims she had been home shortly before the siege began but in a statement released tonight, she said she had been at work.
She said it was a "very distressing time" for both her and her late husband's family and asked for privacy.
The statement read: "This is a very distressing time for all of Mark's family, who loved him dearly, and especially for Elizabeth, who much appreciates the support she has received from friends and family.
"Mark and Elizabeth had a strong union and were deeply committed to each other.
"While she grieves and come to terms with her tragic loss, she would be grateful if the media could continue to respect her privacy and leave her in peace.
"Finally, it has been widely reported that Elizabeth was at the family home prior to the terrible events which led to Mark's death.
"She was in fact at work, and arrived home only after the area had been cordoned off."
The results of a post-mortem examination were expected to confirm that Mr Saunders, 32, was shot by police marksmen.
Sources said Mr Saunders had at least three "potentially fatal wounds". He is believed to have been hit up to seven times.
Paul Robinson, former head of Scotland Yard's Specialist Firearms Command, said: "In incidents like this, officers first contain the premises, then isolate the individual and try to negotiate him out of the building without injury to anyone.
"Unfortunately it appears that in this particular case the man was not amenable to discussion with the police and repeatedly opened fire.
"Officers are entitled to return fire if they believe they, or members of the public, are at risk."
Armed officers burst into a £2.2 million first-floor flat in Chelsea, London, shortly after 9.30pm on Tuesday to find the barrister fatally wounded.
He had repeatedly fired a shotgun at police and neighbouring houses from a window of his home in Markham Square, moments from affluent King's Road, during a five-hour stand-off.
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Mystery: Mark Saunders' father, Rodney, emerges from his Cheshire home this afternoon
A distraught Elizabeth Clarke looks wracked with grief on the day of the shooting
Investigators are examining the possibility that he wanted police to kill him in a "suicide by cop" scenario. At one point he had shouted from the window: "I have been in the f***ing Army."
Elizabeth Clarke, 40, sobs in the street while her husband exchanges fire with armed police
The barrister had served in the Territorial Army with the Honourable Artillery Company but resigned his post about five years ago.
His father added: "I said, 'You want to get out of there or Tony Blair will ship you off to Iraq.' Whether he thought about that I don't know but he was a bit fed up with what he was doing in the TA but also his workload had been increasing."
His wife, barrister Elizabeth Clarke, was seen with her hand clamped in horror to her face as she watched her world fall apart that day.
Yards away, police marksmen are training their guns on her flat, where her husband of less than two years is firing a shotgun from the windows.
Two hours later, he was dead, shot as officers burst in.
One of his last acts is to throw a white cardboard box into the garden. On it he has written: "I love my wife dearly xxx".
Last night everyone who knew the two high-flying lawyers was struggling to explain the hours of madness and tragedy on Tuesday evening.
Before the shooting began, Paddy Renous, 48, said he noticed Saunders had been drinking in the Phoenix pub nearby.
Oxford graduate Mr Saunders was popular and successful, earning £500,000 a year and tipped to become a judge.
Though he suffered from bouts of depression and alcoholism, he had appeared perfectly calm only hours before the armed siege in which, police believe, he wanted officers to kill him.
The "suicide by cop" theory emerged as it was revealed that the drama began shortly before 5pm with an angry row between Mr Saunders and his 40-year-old wife, a barrister at the same chambers.
Mr Saunders had uncharacteristically left work early and begun drinking heavily.
Neighbours of the couple's ground floor flat heard raised voices, then the sound of a gun being fired.
Jane Winkworth, who lives in the flat below, went out to investigate and found the gun being aimed at her.
She ran back inside and called police. Officers were then seen talking to Miss Clarke, who had fled the couple's flat, to find out what sparked the drama and the best way to end it.
But Mr Saunders, who had two legally owned shotguns, fired at police and at other homes nearby.
Between the shots, he refused repeated requests from police negotiators to surrender.
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Revealed: Inside the Chelsea drawing room where Mark Saunders was shot dead
Point of impact: A bullet hole in one of the windows of the flat (left), Exclusive residence: The £2 million home in Markham Square was cordoned off yesterday (right)
Finally, at around 9.30pm, specialist firearms officers stormed the flat, throwing stun grenades.
A neighbour said: "I saw police break down the back door and two or three guys with machine guns went in.
"There was a volley of shots but I don't know whether they were stun grenades or machine guns.
"Some time after that there were seven shots - bang, bang, bang, seven times like that one after the other.
"Without sounding emotive it sounded like an execution. Then it all went quiet.
"One guy in a balaclava who looked very professional started putting away his equipment and made a cutting the throat sign to someone else."
The Independent Police Complaints Commission launched an immediate inquiry, as it does in all fatal police shootings, but was not able to say last night whether police killed Mr Saunders or he shot himself.
Sources close to the case said: "This man wanted to die. He was given every opportunity to surrender but continued shooting with almost inevitable consequences.
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"It appears he wanted to be killed by police."
Friends and family of the gunman said it was an absolute mystery why he went on the rampage.
Earlier Saunders' father said: "We are just shocked and stunned.
"It is bad enough to have a bereavement in the family but this is exceptional by any standards.
"You could understand it if he was a terrorist but Mark was not a terrorist. He had a lot of friends who he got on with extremely well.
"We are not aware of anything in his work life or private life which might have made him react like this.
"He has been married about 18 months and they seemed the ideal couple.
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Wrecked: A forensics officer climbs through the remains of Mark Saunders' front door
"We were in contact with him frequently. He would phone us often. In fact he sent my wife an email just yesterday morning.
"There was no indication whatsoever that there was anything wrong."
However, neighbours saw Mr Saunders crying on the street outside his flat.
He was rocking back and forth, kicking the pavement and muttering to himself.
Steve Trainer, 42, a landscape gardener, said: "He was sitting on the wall or pavement outside his flat and he was sobbing. I have no idea what it was about but he looked shaken.
"When he saw me he just wiped away the tears and hid his face. He was kicking the pavement with the toe of his foot, banging it really hard. I didn't like to say anything but he seemed to be muttering a bit."
Colleagues at QEB Chambers, the leading family law firm where the couple both worked, were clearly distressed yesterday.
Security guard John Fenlon, 47, said: "Mark always had time for people, he always spoke to me and he was very kind.
"His wife is an absolutely lovely lady, I have known her for quite a few years and always say hello to her."
Mr Fenlon confirmed that Mr Saunders was at work on Tuesday morning, and left just before lunchtime. He was dressed casually and seemed happy.
Mr Fenlon said: "He said it was a lovely day and drove off."
He added: "Both Mark and Elizabeth are very nice people so this is an even bigger shock. They are quite upset in chambers, especially the juniors that worked with him.
"There didn't appear to be anything wrong between them, they didn't seem estranged or anything like that.
"I just can't understand for one minute what happened."
Stand-off: An armed policeman sprints across the King's Road as the incident continued
Reader views (24)
Here's a sample of the latest views published.
rI had just arrived in to London, unpacked at my hotel and then decided to take the tube to Sloan Square. I was walking towards the west on the Kings Road and was going to get a sandwich at the Subway. I would have then continued west towards Markham Sq. At the last minute, I changed my path and decided to walk back to Peter Jones, the design store. I was walking out the front door as police came in response to the neighbors calling. As I have told many people; you make a decision to go to the left or go to the right. Life unfolds from that moment. I felt like I had walked into a movie set only this was no movie! I gathered with the crowd and watched all the special police units move in. I heard the exchange of gunfire. I talked with some bus passingers who had to run for their lives. I had to stay to see how this would unfold. I then went into a pub and had a few pints as I thought about just how close I had come from being in a life threatening situation. Two days later I was in the Chelsea area and went to the crime scene. I had my camcorder with a zoom lens and I got great footage of the flat they broke into to shoot Mark. I then went over to Markham Sq. and did the same thing from the other- side of the key garden. I got footage of all the windows and all the bullet holes thru the windows of 46 Markham Square. I then walked down to where a mobile crime lab had been set up. I think about this often and I still wonder just what made Mark snap May 6, 2008.
- Kimberly Blunck, Los Angeles California USA
If you brandish a weapon, and begin firing indiscriminately, the outcome is an armed response. I sympathise with this man's wife and family, but at the end of the day, he was discharging a lethal weapon and "allegedly" not responding to police during the 5 hours they were present. When you arm yourself with a weapon, you don't really expect the armed responses to pat you on the back and tell you to put it down. I do however hope there is a transparent investigation into this and if we don't have all the facts and the police overreacted, that there is no cover up.
- Bill, France
Anyone in possession of a gun of any sort is a danger to himself/herself, and the rest of the population. So because he was a lawyer, suddenly the legality of his possession has been repeated over and over. Are they trying to cover for the wife and her future position as a judge? Next they will found class A drugs, but excuses will be found just for the same reason. Because they are super rich and lives amongst the powerful, it is suddenly considered as police suicide. The police doesn't need excuses to kill these days but at least this guy was shooting around, unlike Jean Charles de Menezes. My guess is that lawyers and family will bring this to court, and will have a far better chance of conviction than any innocent foreigner executed by the police.
- Lauren, London UK
Those who support this guy should not forget that not only he aimed his weapon at innocent people, he even fired at them. Will Iraq excuse beadequate justification if Ms. Winkworth and the children at #1 were killed?
- Alex, USA
Who are the men in balaclavas anyone know?
- Stephen D., London England
If the police hadn't shot him what criticism would they have had if this guy had injured/killed someone else first?
- Andy, London
He was shooting into neighbours windows, what were the police supposed to do, let him kill people?
- Pat, Essex
What the hell does the Iraq war have to do with this?
Guy was drunk and couldn't deal with some issues. Time will show that he was losing his wife, child, job etc and he simply lost his composure. I am sure "drinking all day" didn't help.
- Dave, Boston MA
Urban residents are perfectly entitled to own a shotgun and many do quite legally do so. They are used for both target clay shooting and game shooting in the countryside outside London. The usual gross anti-gun ignorance surfaces yet again. How about the three gangsters being tried right now in Manchester who used a prohibited Section 5 Czech made Scorpion machine pistol? That's where the real gun crime problem lies! Sadly the UK armed police are not very good at all. They are trigger happy and incompetent. This guy could easily have been neutralised without killing him by simply using CS gas. If several CS gas grenades had been fired into the apartment this man would have been incapacitated and taken alive. Londoners should really be afraid of these trigger happy goons. I shudder to think what would happen if they had to confront a real terrorist gunman or rogue ex-Specials situation. Utter carnage. Remember that a shotgun really is pretty useless after 40 yards anyway and it is likely that this man was firing no 6 or 7 shot which will not even scratch body armour or penetrate 1mm steel plate!!
- James, New Malden, Surrey
He was firing a gun at the police, what are they meant to do? I have friends in the armed police and they rarely fire a shot - they must have had a good reason.
- Emma, Nunhead, London
The comment regarding his TA service was surely just to point out that he had been trained in firearm use and was therefore a threat to both the police and public. Let's not forget that he fired at his neighbour - either to get attention or to injure/kill her. This man was a danger to the lives of those at the siege scene - people who did not ask to be put in that situation. Whether or not he intended on being killed in this way is not the issue - the safety of the public is. If people around him had no idea that he was stressed or needed help then how could they help him - there are agencies out there, for example counselling, who could have possibly helped whatever his situation. No one as yet knows the facts - but the police are not to blame for his death.
- Dawn, Durham
"Why was he shot 3 times"?
Because the only place where you get guns shot out of your hand or get shot in the shoulder and its all over, is in the movies or in books. Oh, and by the way, arterial wounds, bone fragments and the like can also kill, even in a shoulder, arm or leg wound wound.
In the real world once it has reached the stage where shooting IS going to happen, a single shot isn't "tried to see if it will work". This endangers everyone involved. "Suicide by cop", regardless of the fact that the gunman wants to die, is still lethally dangerous to everyone else around until it happens.
The police did their job. The very real distress and grief of friends and family not-withstanding, that should be the end of it (without people trying to mix in their own pet hates or politics to the brew, please)!
- Rogan, DFW Texas
That was some show of force response by the police. Never happens here in South London when we have a shooting incident!
- Philip, London, England
Most city residents would be refused a shotgun permit. There are questions to be asked about how and why a highly placed lawyer was able to subvert normal practice.
- Sean, Coventry UK
"Inquiries later revealed he was in the Territorial Army for three years up to 2002 but never saw active service." I m afraid this is not the case Daizy. This guy just had mental and alchohol problems and the police wouldn't kill him for no reason, he was obviously a threat to other neighbours and to the police, shooting everything around him.
- Paulo, London UK
Neil, did you read the article? It says: "he was in the Territorial Army for three years up to 2002 but never saw active service". Your political agenda is not only unnecessary, but lacks any factual basis in this regard. You wonder why people get fed up with people, who, I agree have great intentions, but over play it, and as a result the fundamentally important message gets lost due to people like making comments such as these. This guy obviously had some serious issues but blaming his state of mind on the Iraq war is somewhat far-fetched, wouldn't you agree?
- Sophie, Sydney
Two barristers from QEB Chambers specialising in resolution of family matters were unable to resolve their differences amicably nor to understand the problems depression brings. Mr Justice Bennett who did the McCartney case was from QEB Chambers as is Michael Hosford Tanner. The caring concern they show to individuals suffering from depression in family proceedings is hopefully not typified by the apparent failure to see the problems which beset their colleagues. It does seem sad that such apparently respected chambers should have such a terrible family related incident thrust their name into the limelight and many of their web pages now seem blocked.
- Paul Todd, London England
Even the well paid professionals like barrister's and high-flying lawyer's who live in extremely expensive houses/flats and appear to live a so called perfect life have their problems.
It just goes to prove that no-one knows what really goes on behind closed doors.
- Sam, Lewisham
Alcohol, depression and narcotic abuse needs more funding. An awful, awful episode.
Equally, attention should be paid to what I call 'partner departure', some people need real therapy and help. You can find solace with others.
It really is quite serious for some people.
Paully x
- Paul, Bromley
Someone I know was at the scene at the same time he was shot and thought a movie was being made! The place was teaming with police and people and news crews...
I'm surprised the Police shot him when after so many hours into the siege they could have injured him. This is the sort of thing you expect in Bolivia. The guy was clearly under extreme stress which he displayed days before, he should have been taken to a psychiatric hospital.
I hate it when neighbours say after the event 'they always thought he looked creepy' as if his family don't have enough to content with...
- Jessica, london
So it was a legally registered weapon. What does a resident of central London need a shotgun for?
- Mick, London, England
Ted, it's probably news crews and not the police...
- Daizy, N England
The psychological damage done to those who served in the Iraq bloodbath is clear and obvious. I am not convinced that shooting this man to death was the best of all possible worlds. In the States they call the kind of behaviour this man exhibited "going postal".
- Neil, london uk
I live near the King's Road and there has been a helicopter circling the area for ages now, it's driving me insane with the noise.
I have also heard brief sirens. Haven't bothered to get out of the house to look though.
- Ted, London
