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Ken: fatal flaw in Johnson plan to bring back Routemasters
Paul Waugh and Pippa Crerar22.04.08
Boris Johnson's plans for new Routemaster buses could kill more than 10 people a year through passengers falling off the back of them, Ken Livingstone has claimed.
In an ITV London debate, the Mayor warned that his rival's plans would never get off the drawing board because no manufacturer would want to be sued over deaths or injuries caused by the open-backed buses.
But Mr Johnson hit back, countering that his new design would be safer than the bendy buses they would replace. He also declared that he wanted all bus crime to be wiped out - a "100 per cent reduction" - during his first four-year term at City Hall.
The debate, to be screened on ITV1 tonight, saw Mr Livingstone, Mr Johnson and Liberal Democrat Brian Paddick clash repeatedly in their rowdiest televised hustings to date.
With just over a week to go before polling day, all three candidates were heckled and jeered as they sought to score points against each other on everything from transport to crime, to their fitness for office.
The Mayor used the debate to unleash a fresh attack on Mr Johnson's £100 million plans to phase out bendy buses and replace them with a new generation of disabled-friendly Routemasters.
He said: "No one will design one because people would be liable to be sued by the relatives of people who fell off the back and died.
"You used to have double figures every year for people falling off the buses." Mr Livingstone later said that he was referring to figures from the early Nineties, when Routemasters were last in use on a major scale.
He said that in the Seventies, when the bus made up half the fleet, around 20 people a year died in accidents, caused mainly when people tried to hop on the back of a bus, missed and were then run over.
Mr Johnson dismissed the claims, declaring "bendy buses are twice as dangerous as any other bus". He pointed to figures showing that there have been twice as many pedestrian and cyclists injuries involving the articulated buses as normal buses.
Today Mr Livingstone continued the attack by criticising Mr Johnson's lack of proposals for the Tube. The Mayor said it gave Londoners a "crystal clear choice" on which candidate was better suited to run the capital's transport network.
On a visit to a central London Tube station, he compared his record with that of his Tory rival. "I have put forward a clear programme and management for the Tube in this election, whereas Boris Johnson has produced complete incoherence on a £1 billion a year programme for a system on which three million Londoners travel every day," he said.
• London's Mayor - You Decide, will be broadcast on ITV London at 10.35pm
Reader views (32)
Ken Livingstone, In 2000, the then Mayor of London speaking of the iconic Routemaster said that it was something “only a ghastly, dehumanised moron would want to get rid of". He was right!
At least any passenger suffering injury or worse by falling off the open platform probably did so through their own bloody stupidity unlike the possibility of being cooked alive the next time one of those bendy busses goes up in flames again!
- Steve Hickin, Reading
Originally the Routemaster prototypes, later production models from 1953 were to last for just 17 years, was amazed that the RM types had lasted for so long after Ken Livingstone spent much money in revamping the then remaining fleet with new engines and inner livery to be scrapped. It might have been much better for the return of the trolleybus to London, as remember too well those trolleybuses on my visits to London.
- Lofty Holloway, Highbury, London
It´s a bitter pill to swallow but the routemaster days are over I drove them for 10 years great bus but these days health and safety comes first. Have a modern bus but also have a conductor on board. The driver should only be thinking of driving safely, not dealing with fares and trouble on the bus.
Sorry, but I think the private motorist in central London should have to cough up the extra cost. Driving a bus around London all day I could never figure out why people need to drive their cars in central London.
- Steve Ward, Valencia Spain
Red Ken will only be gone for good if you all get out and vote against him. Turn out is important. Remember that the walk to the polling station or getting off work early might save you thousands over the next few years!
- Mark, London
Why was there no publicity about all these "people dying" from falling off Routemasters before that "ghastly dehumanised moron" Leavingsoon scrapped them?
He only spouts these lies now, after the hated bendy buses have been a catastrophic failure!
Good riddance Ken.
- Daniel Howard, London,UK
It wasn't the RM's that killed people, it was the cars driving behind. Now I am more in fear of being run over by push bikes, than I was of falling off RM's going to school.
- Larry, Clapham, UK
Well.. passengers may well "fall out of the routemaster", but there have been many times that bendy bus has either nearly run be over as a pedestrian when it turns a corner OR cut me up when I am driving.
I do like bendy buses, but they are not appropriate in a compact city like London.
- Phelix, London
No Livingstone does not deserve another term. He now tells us the costs of the Olympics were guessed at, however Ms Jowell tells us, "Ken is having a laugh". Who can you believe? But guess who will pick up the bill that is on its way to £12 billion. The bendy buses must go simply because they cause congestion as London's Streets are too narrow.
- Clarky, London
Fare evasion is rife on bendy buses whereas it is not on Routemasters. Routemasters suit the narrow congested streets of London, long bendy buses do not. Dump the bendy buses!
- James, New Malden, Surrey
Simple solution to possible accidents on Routemasters:
The conductor puts the safety strap round the back platform when the bus is moving and moves it when the bus stops.
Sorted!
Routemasters would also be much better than Ken's proposed hybrid buses, which break down all the time.
- Robert Cunningham, Harrow, London, UK
Mayor Red Ken is no more - London let's celebrate!
- Jacqueline, Hampstead, London
You can tell when Kenny lies, his lips move.
- Neil Grnsell, london
Why is the whole debate about casualties anyway. Does life have to be so sanitised? Route Masters are iconic, wonderful, and fun. If may be one or 2 more people who are foolish enough to risk their lives die, then so be it. Or shall we introduce the crime of jay walking, slow down the escalators, and all travel the streets in bumper cars?
- Stephen, London
Boris Johnson speaks a lot of sense when he says the mayoral term should be limited to two terms, they should also implement this in Government and with the PM.
- Brandon Thomas, London UK
1) I once fell off a Routemaster on the Haymarket, cut my elbow, knee and head and I think they should be brought back. 99% of Routemaster incidents are as a result of passenger stupidity (mine included). Objects aren't inherently dangerous it's the people using them. The Routemaster is an iconic symbol of London.
2) Ken is very lucky that the spontaneously combusting bendy buses didn't kill anyone.
- Sj, London
You gotta love the smugness of Livingstone. I picture him as someone who, while Rome burns around them and everyone flees, stands there, declaring that he knows where the fire started.
Mr Mayor, if you are reading this, nobody really cares how much Routemasters will cost or how they will be built or what sort of legal disclaimers will need to be accepted by all who use them, we just want them back and you and your killer bendy buses gone, now!
- St, London
How dare Livingstone say this! It was he who said 'only an inhuman moron would get rid of Routemasters in London (or words to that effect), he then pursued through TfL a policy of buying Routemasters back from anywhere they could be found and refurbished them for reuse in London.
Maybe it would be useful if the candidates looked back at the type of buses the diesel engined Routemaster was first built to replace. Over 2,000 red double-deck ZERO emmision electric trolleybuses taken off the streets in the early sixties. These were not rail bound expensive trams but normal rubber tyred vehicles simply drawing their energy from overhead wires - simple, proven and in a 21st century form everywhere else but in the UK.
- Mark, Bournemouth England
The times I've been stationary in a traffic jam on a bus with the doors shut, and a driver who would not open them until the next bus stop.
Oh yes please bring back the Routemaster.
As for risk, it is a question of tolerability. We know that thousands of people die in motor accidents every year, but we accept this because of the freedom it brings to our private lives.
(Though we would be less tolerant of a similar mortality rate at the work place).
The fairest way to decide on the fate of the Routemaster would be to allow the public to decide.
But such an approach does not go down well with the PC Brigade who insist that they know better and think we are incapable of rational thought.
- Peter Hooper, Windsor. Berkshire. UK
You can't be accepted as a proper Londoner until you've fallen off the back of a Routemaster, or collapsed in a pile in the road after not quite managing to catch one. Being able to catch one as they move off defines your sprinting and acceleration capabilities.
I miss them.
- Roger, Guildford
I wish the esteemed mayoral candidates would just shut up about bendy buses,and how many people they, or their replacement, may or may not "kill".
Rather than our two main candidates bickering like children about what kind of buses we have, I'd like to see them engage with some of London's IMPORTANT transport issues (crime on the transport network, tube reliability, disabled access, speeding up Oyster card access on trains, and the like).
- Mark, London
Routemaster may be able to survive in the previous decade, but traffic in London has not reduced significantly...even with the Congestion Charge!
Bendy bus and lorry drivers might miss a cyclist, but cyclist should be aware of the lorry or a bus (let alone a Bendy Bus?!!) As a cyclist commuter, I am mindful of the surroundings. It is as much as my duty to avoid accidents, as it is for the other road users.
Bendy buses are used all over the world, so surely they can't be that bad.
As for encouraging people to jump on and off the bus, I thought we are trying to reduce accidents?
- Dennis, London
The figure of 10 per year sounds like a calculation... As Routmasters where running in living memory. The actual figures should be available. I'm sure if the figures were as high as 10 per year killed by ruthless routemasters, it would have seen their demise at a much earlier date.
If that's the best shot in Careless Ken's locker Bumbling Boris is a shoo in. I'm off to the bookies
- Andy, Eastbourne UK
Kens tactics stink, he always thinks he knows what's best for London, 20 mph zones, mega mosques, etc. Money is going missing, all we want is for Ken to get out of city hall.
- Sally, London
As I look out of my office window I see - yet again - a 'perfect circle' of buses through Victoria bus garage, around to the left into Victoria Street, back down Buckingham Palace Road and into the bus garage! The result is that nothing is going anywhere. Maybe it's time to ban busses (and cabs) leaving those that need to be about in London to get on with their business in their cars?
- Paul, London
But transport policies are not the domain of the Mayor, they are one of ten areas controlled by Brussels. In Britain, 75% of EU law is implemented at local and regional level, courtesy of the Maastricht and Amsterdam EU treaties. It would be interesting to see each candidate state which of their policies would not be answerable to Brussels.
- Jens Winton, London
Let's hope Ken starts using Routemasters then.
- Nobby Clark, Perth, Scotland
But didn't ken promise to keep the routemaster at one point during his time as mayor, or am I getting confused where he keeps changing his mind over everything.
- Dr Finlays Casebook, London, UK
Up with the routemaster - down with Ken! You are far more likely to get squished (or burnt) by a bendy bus than fall off the back of a routemaster. Please bring back the iconic London bus!
- Jane, London
As a child, I got off a Routemaster when I thought it was stopping but it was just changing gear. I was thrown into a lamppost. I find bendy-buses quicker to load and safer than Routemasters. Is Boris Johnson just wanting to restore Routemasters because they are iconic of London and take up less road space? - Safe in the knowledge that he won't be using a bus of either kind.
- David, Didcot, Oxon
People might fall off Routemasters, but how many cyclists do bendy buses injure and kill each year?
- Richard, London, UK
Ken, your record with finances Olympics £8-12 billion underestimated. It's good to know you rate yourself so highly with other peoples finances, unfortunately for you anyone capable of reading no longer trust you. If Boris gets it wrong by the amount you state it is nothing compared to what you have lost over the past 8 years.
- Den, London
Having used routemasters thousands of times I can only say that you would have to be a complete moron to fall off of the back of one. Obviously Ken empathises with morons as they are the only people apart from the corrupt who would vote for him.
- Jimbob, Kensington
