Afternoon:
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'We don't understand how to vote for Mayor'
Pippa Crerar and Katharine Barney29 Apr 2008
The majority of Londoners do not fully understand the complicated mayoral voting system, according to a YouGov poll for the Evening Standard.
It found that 30 per cent of voters did not know about the two-vote system while 27 per cent were aware of it but were uncertain how it worked.
Only 39 per cent of Londoners were clear about it and how the votes will be distributed.
Under the system, voters will be faced with three ballot papers on Thursday.
The first will be for the mayor with people having two votes - a first and second preference.
Voters must cast a first preference and can opt for a second one, which must be different from their first choice.
If, as expected, no candidate wins 50 per cent of first choice votes then all except the top two - likely to be Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone - will be eliminated.
The second choice votes of the knocked-out candidates will then be counted, but only if they are for one of the top two candidates.
In the event that nobody scores 50 per cent of the first preference vote, the second preferences will be added. The other two ballot papers are for the London Assembly - one is for the local candidate and the other for London-wide party preference. The Standard poll of 1,139 Londoners, taken between 23 and 25 April, shows a disturbing level of confusion. One in four Londoners did not know that an election for the London-Assembly was taking place on the same day. Among those who did, the poll found that 17 per cent thought they had just one vote for the assembly, rather than two.
Although 30 per cent knew exactly how the assembly system operated, a further 19 per cent were uncertain how it would work. Women were more confused about how to vote than men with 36 per cent saying they did not know how the system worked compared with 23 per cent of men.
Votes will be counted on Friday during the day - meaning that the result will be announced in the afternoon or early evening. Unlike in general elections and other local elections, there will be no recounts, as the system is electronic.
The only way any result can be challenged is by an application to the courts for a judicial review.
Concerns were raised last year over the electronic counting when the £4.5million contract to carry it out was awarded to a Spanish firm, which was involved in massive delays in two local election counts. Indra's computer system took four times longer than manual counting in the Norfolk polls.
I'M JUST GOING TO TURN UP AND TICK A BOX ...
DESPITE nearly two months of campaigning by mayoral candidates, Londoners were still confused and dumbfounded by the voting system today.
In an Evening Standard street poll, many people admitted they were unaware the Mayor was elected by the second preference system, with most unsure how the votes were counted. Others did not know that the London Assembly election was happening and no one was sure how Assembly members were selected.
Elizabeth Ryan, 29, project manager, from Holland Park: "I was just going to turn up on the day and tick a box. I didn't know about anything else. I didn't know there was a second vote and if I had I didn't know you couldn't vote for the same person twice.
"I certainly didn't know anything about the London Assembly vote. I don't know who my candidate is and whether I want them to represent me and I'm not sure about voting for just a party on one form." 
Chris Blick, 25, advertising executive, from Bexleyheath: "I wasn't even sure if I would vote, and for someone like me it makes me less likely to because there's so much more to think about than simply who you would want to be Mayor.
"I was expecting one piece of paper but suddenly it's like an exam. I had no idea there was more than one election going on for a start and the one I did know about is actually more complicated than I thought." 
Anna Taverner, 27, club floor manager, from Wandsworth: "Having so many forms is very confusing and while I can work out the mayoral one, I don't think I'd bother voting for the Assembly as I don't know who or what I'm voting for. But also I'm not even sure I know what the Assembly does. It honestly doesn't seem very important." 
Fraser Carruthers, 25, nightclub manager: "I don't really think there's any point in a second preference vote as it just confuses people. It only works for people who want to have a conscience vote and show support for someone who can't possibly get in, then they can use their other vote for who they actually want." 
Nick Cohen, 40, energy assessor, from Russell Square: "I'm a bit confused to see so many papers and don't understand why I'm expected to vote three times. On one paper there are two sets of boxes and the other two papers are just one. Why on earth are there two different votes for the London Assembly?"
Reader views (26)
"The spoilt ballot papers were from people who did not grasp the complex system."
I think you'll also find that spoilt voting papers are from people like myself who think that each party is as bad as the other and that rather than wasting my vote on the best of a bad lot I'll register my disgust by spoiling my ballot, if enough people were to do this then an inquiry would be held.
- Rod Anstaff, Highgate, 30/04/2008 09:47
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It's simple. For the Mayoral election, give a first preference for the candidate you like best. If you like Brian Paddick best, vote for him. Give your second preference to the one you like second best, regardless of who you think might win.
For the Assembly constituency election - for your part of London - look at the booklet which all electors have been sent. That has a list of the candidates in each constituency - nothing more than their name, which is a shame, but the names are there.
For the third ballot paper, simply choose which party you prefer - and if your choice doesn't win in the constituency election, your vote may well count towards electing someone.
It's really quite simple.
- David, Ealing, 30/04/2008 07:58
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As the majority of the public are obviously thoroughly confused and the media have been more or less focusing on the slagging match between Ken (expert) and Boris (novice) perhaps it's now time to re-think the whole election process and whether or not so many politicians are really and truly necessary at all.
Personally, I believe that "less is more" and that both increased efficiencies together with dramatic savings could be made for the benefit of all Londoners. The alternative, of course, is to simply have all the public "sworn in" as "politicians" so that they can simply join the "gravy train" too!
- Fraser, Telford Park, 30/04/2008 01:00
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Hope you don't have the mess we had in Scotland 150,000 spoiled voting papers - some were too wet to count - they came by boat! Some of us still believe Douglas Alexander thought he was fixing it for a Labour win - didn't he get a surprise.
- Ali Cat, Glasgow, Scotland, 29/04/2008 21:04
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Last years Scottish elections were a complete shambles. Looks like a similar system. In Scotland many people had to use 2 or 3 ballot papers. Some just gave up. Dont use electronic counting. It made a further shambles of the count as many machines broke down and others refused to accept votes.
- Eric Flack, Glasgow, 29/04/2008 20:23
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Voting should not be unnecessary complicated.
However, voters are not prohibited to read up on the voting procedure...we're talking about adults performing an important civic duty.
- Eric, London, 29/04/2008 18:45
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Surprise surprise, I have mentioned this to many over the last 3 weeks, to The Standard, The Daily Telegraph and The Sun and any person that I have met who has shown even the slightest interest. If we like it or not, for the Mayor, the second vote, if you pick Boris or Livingstone as the likely 2 front runners, is worth Zero. But, if you pick any other candidate your second vote will count. As to the the London Assembly (One Vote) the candidate that gets the most votes in a constituency wins. The London-wide Assembly member (One Vote) all the constituencies are added together and any one with less than 5% is eliminated. The number of seats are then allocated in proportion to the votes cast. Whew! Tell that one to the public.
- Douglas Macdonald, Wimbledon, London, 29/04/2008 18:39
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It shows how uninvolved the average voter in Britain (and the rest of the Western World) are in the process it's just plain laziness really. For the same reason children in the third world are almost always punctual and well-behaved because a good education is not guaranteed here free education is so well established and the welfare system provides such as safety net children play truant and disrupt classes.
I had to educate my ex-wife on how to vote. It's really not that difficult you can vote for a second preference if you first choice doesn't win.
I think the second preference vote is great it makes it impossible for a candidate to win with less than 50% of the vote and therefore encourages more choice in the candidate list. Think about it if the Americans had had this choice in 2000 don't you think Al Gore would have beaten Bush? (We'll he beat him anyway on votes but never mind) the point is We would not be in Iraq now!
- Jason Stone, Stratford, Newham, 29/04/2008 17:08
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I have got a slight issue with the second preference vote. I do not think that any candidate should be able to wheel and deal with the second preference votes allocated to them by voters. If this is done to ensure a 'say' in policy, you are talking about a hung assembly anyway and not a need to have a first past the post, carried bodily by all the other jockeys and stablehands!
The other thing I would like to see is the spoilt ballots reported. If a section of the electorate feels completely disenfranchised from the political process this is realistically the only way to voice it. It does not necessarily mean they are too stupid to vote or too lazy to drag themselves to a polling station.
- Ian, London, 29/04/2008 16:24
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I understand the comments of those who are committed voters, but it's simple for you. You are becoming fewer in numbers every year. That is why turnout has languished around one-in-three at both the previous Mayor and Assembly elections in spite of the endless hype. If a voter is handed three ballot papers, with one containing a first and second choice, another for a body that he/she barely knows exists, then it is not a simple process. Long lists of names and parties. It confuses and puts people off. Proof of this is in the huge number of spoilt ballot papers last time round. These were not people saying "a plague on all of you" (those people were the two-thirds who didn't bother showing). The spoilt ballot papers were from people who did not grasp the complex system. The guilty party is Government at every level which refuses to explain the voting system to the public for fear that they might grasp the possibilities that it offers...
- Damian Hockney Am, London, 29/04/2008 16:20
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Democracy is a pain isn't it? Why don't we just invite a benevolent dictator to rule us? Come on people, the Mayor and the assembly collect hundreds of millions in tax from you. A five minute read is hardly a lot to ask.
- Mark Curtis, London, 29/04/2008 16:20
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Its simple, just vote for Boris and keep the dictator out. Imagine 12 years of Ken? - Scary thought.
- Diane Benjamin, London, 29/04/2008 15:36
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If you're a Livingstone supporter, rest assured that the rest of us will be out in force and you shouldn't worry too much about making the effort, we should crush Boris with ease.
- St, London, 29/04/2008 15:18
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Ken certainly isn't filling in the forms. Nobody is there. That building is so climate-change proofed at council tax payers expense that one burst water main empties it. So much so that the count may well have to be somewhere else. says it all.
- Simon In Se London, uk, 29/04/2008 15:10
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Well this is good news, I've been saying for years we need a way to make sure that moron's votes don't count as much as normal people's.
There should be plenty of lefties accidentally voting for the BNP etc (although that might be on purpose, "British jobs for British workers" and all that).
- Barnardo Millionaire, London, UK, 29/04/2008 14:42
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Don't vote then! Just don't have the cheek to whinge during the year if you haven't bothered.
- Charlie, London, 29/04/2008 14:40
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If people can not understand a very simple voting process, then God help us all. Are the general public so stupid as to find this difficult? Or are they so much more preoccupied in whatever the low brow magazines are telling them is important this week.... they don't deserve a vote if they are that dimwitted.
- Joanna, london, 29/04/2008 14:39
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Yes, it is very simple - just put a cross against Ken's name in the first AND second boxes on the mayoral sheet. Job done.
- Gary, London, 29/04/2008 14:05
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It really is Darwinism in action. If you can't understand voting on 3 ballot papers for 1 executive role and 1 executive assembly member, perhaps you shouldn't be voting anyway.
- Didi, London, UK, 29/04/2008 13:35
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And just to help out any Boris supporters out there, when you go to vote, it's spelled 'X'.
- Goatboy, London, 29/04/2008 13:35
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Well, I am sure that nothing will have been learned from the mess of the Scottish elections.
- Briansj, Ayr, Scotland, 29/04/2008 13:25
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Don't worry if you don't know how to vote. Just give your ballot paper to us and we can fill it in for you.
The Labour Party
- Labour Party, Banglatown, 29/04/2008 13:24
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3 pieces of paper - 3 votes.
You don't have to have a 2nd vote if you don't want to.
So just vote once on each form. I.e. Mark whichever party or candidate you like.
I don't know if they will want a Cross or a Simple line as this elections computer counted but I'm sure they will explain to you at the polling station.
It's not Rocket Science, give me strength.
- Coster, Barnet, 29/04/2008 12:57
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Squiz,
Ken is very kindly filling in the forms for them. Just another part of the service for anyone who isn't English.
- Jimbob, Kensington, 29/04/2008 12:57
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It's simple: anyone but Ken.
- Nobby Clark, Perth, Scotland, 29/04/2008 12:33
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It's not rocket science but perhaps it will fox the 'Latinos' and Muslims Ken has been so assiduously courting; any luck.
- Squiz, Islington, 29/04/2008 12:22
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