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£50 fines for feet on seats
Martin Bentham, Home Affairs Editor12 Oct 2007
Rail and Tube passengers who put feet on seats or play music too loudly face £50 on-the-spot fines from British Transport Police.
Senior officers recognise that commuters often feel intimidated by low-level bad behaviour. They believe it also leads to more serious disorder and to clashes when troublemakers are confronted.
Officers will mount extra patrols as part of a major drive to reduce fear and cut crime on London's transport network.
The fines will vary according to the offence, rising to £80, and will double if not paid within 21 days.
Commuters today welcomed the crackdown and some called for it to be extended.
Dahlia Simms, 34, from Earl's Court, said: "The last thing you want is someone's dirty shoes on your seat but you can't say anything because you just don't know if you'll get stabbed. Drinking beer on the Tube should also be banned."
British Transport Police assistant chief constable Steve Thomas said: "People who put their feet on the seats are showing a lack of consideration for others. Similarly when passengers inflict their music on everyone else either by playing it out loud or just too loudly through their earphones it is not only annoying but can also be offensive.
"British Transport Police officers will not tolerate such behaviour and will intervene. It is unacceptable and disrespectful for passengers to impose themselves on others in this way.
"Our public spaces, trains, Tubes, stations, should not be places where people feel intimidated or offended by the behaviour or others."
Mr Thomas added: "Such thoughtless, antisocial behaviour is particularly intimidating if those involved are part of a large group.
"Our officers will be making people aware of the potential impact their behaviour has and seeking to ensure that they modify it accordingly. We would also encourage passengers to report anything that makes them feel intimidated."
Some passengers, particularly those judged to be acting "thoughtlessly" rather than deliberately offensively, will be initially be given a verbal warning and told to improve their conduct. Other offenders will, however, be fined for disorder.
The drive against antisocial behaviour forms part of wider attempt by Transport for London to improve passenger safety. To achieve this, it has drawn up a new Community Safety Plan which lists the reduction of anti-social behaviour and the fear of crime among its key targets for the coming year.
The plan also highlights the success of a similar "zero tolerance" in New York.
Annalie York, 26, a business development manager, from Fulham, said: "I hate it when groups of youths, girls or boys, play their music really loudly through tinny mobile phone speakers. I also can't stand sitting down in your clean work clothes on a dirty seat where someone's shoes have been."
On Merseyside, local train operator Merseyrail has prosecuted 250 passengers for putting their feet on train seats although in one controversial case Chester magistrates let off a student who had been taken to court.
Reader views (30)
In a full carriage on the Metropolitan line two teenage girls had their feet on opposite seats. They seemed oblivious of the standing passengers needing seats. When I got home my teenage son advised me that this was common & that the girls were "ascerting their power" and that I could have been spat at or abused if I had said anything to them.
- Jas, London UK, 31/10/2008 08:38
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Great. But how is it going to be enforced? Unless a police officer or official is right there to catch the offender it will be one passenger's word against another - with right royal consequences of a punch up when the copper moves on, because there's likely to be no real evidence once a foot putter-upper brushes the seat or puts his ipod away.
But its a welcome warning to behave. I imagine it will be tagged on to those annoying automatic announcements that start "Beggars sometimes board trains....
What's really needed, of course, is "move down the car please, move down and let people on."
- Pete, London, 12/10/2007 12:07
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Yes this is great news. A simple way to enforce it and keep everyone happy would be to totally ban all music players (including headphones), mobile phones, eating and drinking and other anti social behaviour in all carriages bar one or two exclusive "anything goes" carriages. The whingers who claim they cannot possibly survive their few minutes of journey without their "fix" can text, bop and throw their half eaten burgers at each other to their hearts content in these special "cages" (sorry "carriages") while the majority of normal, socially aware travellers can enjoy their journey, snooze or read a book in a peaceful and relaxing environment. Yes, "boring" travellers caring for others is the new "cool".
- Paul, Twickenham, 12/10/2007 11:18
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Well, with all these 'initiatives', there will be a one-day crackdown, usually with the press invited, and then they won't bother again because they don't have the resources to tackle it.
Maybe I'm just getting old and cynical, but I've seen this over and over again. About 10 years ago, Westminster were going to crack down on smoking litter, and to prove the point started handing out fines outside Charing Cross station in front of the cameras. And that was it, they didn't do it for a second day.
Last month signs appeared around Covent Garden warning us cyclists that jumping lights etc would result in a £30 fine. Then on one day, they sent a couple of officers down to tell people off, and they haven't been seen since.
I have this great sense of deja-vu.
- George, London, 12/10/2007 09:37
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Making a new law hasn't stopped people driving whilst talking on mobiles...but make then pay fines and be prosecuted.
That is OK with me.
- M. Gomes, London, 12/10/2007 00:17
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I agree that drinking alcohol on the tube should be banned. If somebody can't undertake a tube journey without resorting to alcohol, then they have a serious problem!
- Alex, London, UK, 11/10/2007 23:42
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It's about time we adopted a zero tolerance policy. A minority of thoughtless people shouldn't be allowed to impose their bad behaviour on everybody else.
- Alex, London, UK, 11/10/2007 23:38
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I do hope this happens, but I too am not hopeful.
I don't think I've seen any BTP on the Liverpool Street line, although there are plenty of Ticket Inspectors. I don't they will be much use in dealing with this problem either. I recently saw one check the ticket of someone who had his feet on the seat and nothing was said apart from 'Thank you' for having a valid ticket!
As I said, I'm not hopeful.
- Davep, Benfleet, Essex, England, 11/10/2007 20:39
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This has been done in Liverpool for a while now. Best thing some one has ever thought up.
- Max, London, 11/10/2007 20:28
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About time...
Fed up of seeing people placing their legs across the tables or placing their dirty shoes on the seat opposite.
This should apply nationwide and not just London.
- Anon, Peterborough, United Kingdom, 11/10/2007 18:19
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I'm often amazed at the parents who would never dream of putting their feet on seats allow their children to stand and walk on them. Filthy shoes are filthy shoes.
- R M, London, UK, 11/10/2007 17:59
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"Great idea, totally unenforceable. "
It was enforced in Washington DC, and apparently the post-zero tolerance underground network is a joy to use (though I haven't tried it myself).
All it takes is determination and a refusal to make any exceptions.
- Michael, London, 11/10/2007 17:52
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It is infuriating to have to say "May I sit down please?" when two feet occupy the only seat available.
- Georgette Behar, London, 11/10/2007 16:20
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Seems to me to be another money making idea for the government that will do little to stop the problem as 50 quid isn't that much of a deterrent. A night in jail on the other hand....
- Steve, Gravesend UK, 11/10/2007 15:52
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They should have made it a £500 fine. £50 is not high enough.
- Caroline, Richmond Upon Thames, 11/10/2007 15:44
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That is great, I hope they will cacth all those who disrespect people by putting the dirty feet on the seat, also I hope the loud music will also stop, are we going to see the police on the tube? I hope so.
- Eric, London, 11/10/2007 15:06
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"Ban drinking on the tube? Seriously? What's next, no drinking in a pub?"
Yes, seriously, Sarah. Ban drinking - trains and buses are NOT pubs - and whilst we are at it, ban eating as well. I am sick and tired of sitting opposite people stuffing their faces (literally) with fast food which most of the time smells disgusting, invariably drops onto the floor, if not on the seat, and packaging of which is then left behind on the floor, if we are lucky that is, else it stays on the seat.
A sandwich (but not a gigantic baguette), apple/fruit, biscuits would be OK though I guess.
Eating, drinking, doing your make-up (just how tacky can you get?), talking loudly on the mobile... Whatever next, unroll your sleeping bag?
Too many people equate public transport with their home. It's time to put a stop to it.
- Robert Zimmerman, London, 11/10/2007 14:54
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Great idea, totally unenforceable. Making a new law hasn't stopped people driving whilst talking on mobiles as there isn't the will and resource there to enforce it. This will be the same.
- Clare, London, 11/10/2007 14:43
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Sarah, London - ban beer/alcohol drinks ...
You must be one of these people who swig beer, feet on seats and irritate the other passengers.
- Preeti, London, 11/10/2007 13:59
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As good as this sounds, I have never seen a BTP officer patrolling the trains or buses. One time, I was at Euston Station (which is a pretty big station right?) some guy stole my phone and when I went to the BTP office there, there was no one around. Buzzed the stupid bell and still no one came. Where are they hiding?
- Achmad Sirman, London, 11/10/2007 13:55
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Should have been done 10 years ago.
- Joseph Plesnar, London, 11/10/2007 13:51
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Alcohol should be banned on the tube, as it is in many other countries.
Too many people in this country will put their dirty feet on seats and drop litter on the Tube, but then complain about the filthy state of the carriages...
"I've paid for a ticket - I'll do what I want!"
Sound familiar?
- Jim, London, UK, 11/10/2007 13:48
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I dont think this policy will ever work, because all the time I've been on using the Tube, I've never seen the British Transport Police, or are they always undercover?
- Kuldip, London, UK, 11/10/2007 13:48
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I similarly hope they manage to police this. Allowing small infractions leads to a general degredation of social standards. I'm not at all optimistic though.
- Hobbs, London, UK, 11/10/2007 13:46
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I was under the impression that drinking alcohol on the tube was already illegal, it's just that no-one enforces it.
And when was the last time anyone saw a ticket inspector on the tube/train, let alone a copper?
- Nick, London, UK, 11/10/2007 13:41
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Ban drinking on the tube? Seriously? What's next, no drinking in a pub? When they start improving services so that it's not 45 minutes from one side of London to the other. Then they can ban drinking on the tube.
- Sarah, London, UK, 11/10/2007 13:19
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At last! I just hope they have enough officers to enforce this promise.
- L Wheatley, London, England, 11/10/2007 13:18
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Great if this happens...and about time too.
BUT as I've not seen a policeman or an inspector on a bus or tube for many years, how likely is it that anyone will actually be dealt with?
- Mm, London, 11/10/2007 13:07
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I travel on public transport a lot with my young son and instances of people openly drinking alcohol are increasing. This is very intimidating. Also I would add I have never seen a Transport Police person on a bus or a train.
- Eileen, London, UK, 11/10/2007 11:23
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Good I hope they do. Drinking beer should be banned too - it sticks.
- Charlie, London, 11/10/2007 10:50
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