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Wi-fi cameras to track drivers' average speed
David Williams, Motoring Editor15.04.08
A trial of powerful new wi-fi speed cameras that track drivers along every inch of road has begun in London.
Thirty-four devices have been put up along a five-mile stretch of the A13 between Canning Town and the Gorsebrook interchange to the east of the capital.
In the three years to December 2006, there were four deaths and 62 serious injuries in accidents on that stretch of road.
Unlike Gatso cameras that film vehicles at just one point, the new devices communicate with each other enabling them to track a car as it moves.
Drivers travelling between any two cameras have their average speed automatically calculated by a computer. Those above the limit would be liable to a £60 fine and three points on their licence.
The London Safety Camera Partnership said today no one would be fined during the trial, which will continue over the summer before officials decide on implementation.
It could pave the way for "speedand-distance" cameras being rolled out across London, making it harder for drivers to "cheat" by braking when they see a camera.
Experts believe the system could be used to enforce a blanket 20mph speed limit in the capital, in line with Ken Livingstone's plans.
The Mayorwants London's councils to make 20mph the "default" speed in their areas because research suggests this would cut accident levels.
The partnership is also carrying out a 20mph trial using average-speed cameras in Mansfield Road , Camden.
A spokesman said: "It is essential we trial measures that could be used to enforce speed limits and reduce road accidents. At sites where speed cameras have been used there has been a 53 per cent reduction in the number of people killed or seriously injured." Captain Gatso of Motorists Against Detection said: "If this goes live, any motorist who inadvertently strays over the speed limit for a moment will find themselves on the receiving end of a fine. It would lead to even more motorists losing their licences - and possibly their livelihood - for momentarily creeping over the limit."
But Richard Bourn of Campaign for Better Transport said: "Speed cameras have been proven to save lives."
Reader views (37)
Here's a sample of the latest views published.
What is wrong with us in this country. Why are we letting the green shirted, green tied brigade rule our once fine country. I do 60,000 miles a year. What chance have I got of staying in employment with so much time monitoring my speed? Get rid of this Government. It has too much power over the individual.
- Alan, Canterbury
Its crazy, if people are forced to stick to incredibly low and unmanagable speeds every second of their joruney concentration will be lost thus resulting in more accidents and traffic jams. How will they work with emergency vehicles? I cant now speed up a bit to get out of their way, or should I just brake in front of them and pull in behind the car in the left lane? CRAZY and a money making scam! Get a grip goverment, please!
- Mike, East Sussex, UK
Burn them.....burn them all! Power to the people....lets show this stupid Gov't who's really in charge!
- Paul, poole
Speed cameras have and always will be a money making scam. Why do you think there are so many accidents now on motorways because a driver sees the camera panics and slams on the brakes then goes out of control only to end up in an ambulance and the fire brigade totally write off the car with the roof coming off..
Get the country back into the hands of the public not the government that dictates to us now...
- Les, Dewsbury England
"...This is a real threat to road safety, drivers will be constantly looking at their speedometers "
Surely technology can now restrict speed based on geographical location. How do we change every car? If it's not restricted it doesn't go into the zone. No threat to road safety - no government benefiting from back door taxation - everyone's concerns answered.
- Mick, Bedford, UK
How can this justify as a solution to any problem other than to be yet another easy way for government to make some simple pocket money. This is going to have people constantly checking up on themselves instead of concentrating on the road.... Resulting in more accidents.
- Neil, Upminster
I hate this idea, we are getting closer and closer to living in an Orwellian state, where we cant even so much as fart for fear of being fingered.
Christ who really wants to live in a world like this?
- Rob, London
"...This is a real threat to road safety, drivers will be constantly looking at there speedometers "
Isn't that what they are there for? 25 years ago I hired a car in the US that had the facility to lock the speed at 55mph, except in emergency. Let's have them here, then criminals will have no justification for speeding.
- Martin Watson, Teddington
Where is this going to end. Can anyone notify the DfT of how most of the country feels about this issue. This takes away all freedom associated with motoring and will possibly lead to heightened stress levels for motorists, which, in turn, will probably kill as many people as it is supposedly saving. Waste of money and invasion of privacy.
- Godfried, Canterbury, UK
This is just a money making trap and nothing else because they have reduced the speed limit from 50mph to 40mph in the section of road.
The real danger are the speedsters who slow for the camera's and them speed up again.
So they have created a problem rather than solve one.
- Malc, London,England
A London wide limit of 20mph, enforced by averaging speed cameras, should go hand in hand with the introduction of number plates for cyclists, as many cyclists exceed this limit, and when they do are in less good control of their bikes. Any cyclist seeking to ride around such cameras, or ride on the pavement, should be prosecuted using the high street’s general surveillance cameras.
- Chris, Uxbridge
Expect more accidents on that stretch of road as people concentrate on their speedo and not on what is going on in front of them, specs cameras don't work.
Better driver training as serious driving test that is actually difficult to pass, and more policing of untaxed unlicensed drivers is what we really need, but then that doesn't raise revenue does it.
As for a blanket 20mph speed, all the environmentalists want to have a look at the emissions of a car up and down the rev range in 2nd gear at 20mph rather than cruising at 30mph and see how much more pollution it makes!
- Mike Oxard, London
Yet another example of this government taxing the motorist. How long can this go on for ?
- Stuart Andrews, London, UK
More anti car madness it seems! Richard Bourn's comment at the end is grossly untrue and based on massaged statistics and figures. This obsession with speed enforcement and total disregard of all the other factors involved in road safety (yes there are others) is costing lives and not helping road safety. This policy clearly demonstrates that saving lives is not on the agenda of these people...
- Jd, Bath, UK
The problem with the A13 is that it is a wide road, newly renovated, with an absurdly low 40mph speed limit, and across bits that someone thought challenging, the limit goes down to 30. The limit should be 50mph, particularly on the westbound carriageway. There are roads in London of vastly inferior quality (such as the Kingston By-pass south of New Malden and the windy Blackwall Tunnel S Approach) with 50mph limits. The problem of motorists braking to avoid speeding past the camera would be reduced if not eliminated if a 50mph limit were imposed, at least between Canning Town and the A406 (not over that rickety old flyover east of the A406, though).
- Matthew Smith, New Malden, UK
The article shows that once again they have forgotten all about "regression to the mean". You cannot trust people with little mathematical knowledge to give an accurate account of whether or not speed cameras save lives. Cameras are installed following a high accident rate, a transient event, a peak in the statistics. One would expect a drop at camera sites merely because what had previously been recorded was a peak accident rate. Hence regression to the mean. Nnot a reduction of 53% at all in real money.
Nao
- Naomi Sajeri, Manchester
Since my last speeding ticket for 5 mph over 30 I spend a lot more time checking my speedo.
- Zaax, London
What an absolute waste of time and financial resources. I m sure lots of people agree that there are more pressing issues to tackle for example crime... or is this the solution to the credit crunch?
- Dapo, Dagenham
It has nothing to do with TFL, it's run and funded by the LSCP
LCSP = London Safety Camera Partnership
TFL = Transport For London.
- M@, UK
Zero speed limit would be safest.
- John, Bromley
Have the conditions for determining the success or otherwise of the experiment been published?
The cynic in me wonders if there lots of accidents in the period they will conclude, more cameras needed. At the other extreme no accidents, fantastically effective get more cameras.
Hmm, which one will it be?
- Damien, SE19
This is a real threat to road safety, drivers will be constantly looking at there speedometers and not concentrating on the road ahead or vehicles around them, I have no problem with cameras specially around shops schools etc, but this is just a hazard in disguise!
- Brian, Wiltshire
We need help so that a car can be set at the speed automatically - we also need to look at our much strain a driver can take when driving, Brian
- Brian Wigley, London
You know what the answer is don't you? No, well try not speeding, then you don't have to worry about it.
- Nick Meefarit, Bookham
What a complete waste of time and money
TFL would better off making their own buses and underground systems safer rather than going to these extreme lengths to inconvenience the average Londoner.
Anyway most of the bad and dangerous driving I see in London is done by Eastern European cars or else by people who I seriously doubt have any car insurance. Having more cameras is going to do nothing about this.
Why don't TFL setup mobile cameras which check for car insurance or do spot check on MOTs -- that would make the roads safer
My car was recently hit by an unregistered and uninsured driver. As usual the police couldn't car less because all they and TFL are interested in is trying to raise revenue from hard working Londoners
- Wandsworth, Wandsworth
Fantastic news! Advisory limits, chicanes, bumps and flashing signs don't work, selfish idiots still use the roads near my house as their own personal racetrack and essentially bully vulnerable road users out of the way. If people are going to whine about human rights, what about the right to cross the road without having to check some Sterling Moss idiot isn't haring down at breakneck speeds. 1200 people killed a year by speeding drivers, it's time the carnage stopped.
- Dr Susan Porter, London
Technology in action. About time too. Let's have more civility. This'll slow them down.
- Martin H. Watson, Teddington
It is almost to keep below an average speed limit within such a large distance that record numbers of fines are guaranteed. More taxes for government to fritter away.
- Casper Slides, France
War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength. Welcome to the New World Order of total surveillance, compulsory micro chipping and absolute social control; the abolition of privacy and the presumption of guilt.
- Neil, London, UK
You need to check out TicketM8. It may well be that this device saves your job, your insurance and is the only way to for you to have your own evidential proof of your vehicle's actual speed for the same time period.
- Neil Herron, Nationwide
What next? They will be fitting satellite trackers on your vehicles! The length's they go to research, find and use money to spend on technology to catch, fine and revoke licences of drivers. I only wish they would spend the same amount of time, research and money to cut rising crime e.g. muggings, robberies, rape, attacks and murder. Oh forgot, that doesn't earn the government anything it's another cost.
- Ealing Resident, Ealing, England
4 people in 3yrs have been killed, sorry is it just me or is that just really low? Millions of cars must have used that road. So why is this so necessary? Speed limits are fine if they are appropriate, on that road in particular they jump around from 30-60mph! Despite it being basically a 3 lane motorway. Residential streets at 20mph, OK. Dual carriageways? Might as well go back to horses!
- Mark Curtis, London
Shame he cant see it fit to find out why there's always traffic on this stretch. The tw*ts narrowed the road at the most important parts and even if you do 100mph at some points your average will always be back to 40/50 since you're stuck in traffic .
Sorry Ken and his team of idiots you could put speed cameras only where we can speed, you've slowed us all down to a crawl anyway so dreams of making money off us fade fast since you've compounded our woes way before. Team of experts.... team of idiots I believe.
By the way a few days ago I got hit by someone who had to break to a halt because someone around them slowed down when they saw a speed camera...they dont save lives they kill, hiding them kills even more than the lives they claim to save!
- Jay London, Dagenham
How to bankrupt the UK in one go.
There may have been deaths on the A13, but who says that they were due to speeding?
Its simply a fine and Big Brother data collection system that's all!
- Mr Poperdom Pete, Bexleyheath
This is the reason why another 4 years of ken is dangerous never mind the other schemes he has planned, vote the dictator out.
- Diane Benjamin, London
I have no problem with gross speeding offenders being prosecuted, but in general it would be far better to target the large and growing underclass of scum without licences/insurance/MOTs. These drivers will be undeterred by the new cameras, as their cars will not be traceable back to them. Driving with one eye constantly on the speedo will be counter-productive, and I think it may actually make the roads less safe - Red Ken won't care though, just so long as he can harass and persecute the ordinary driver.
- The Gene Genie, Croydon
More money making machines. I'd like to see anyone manage to stick to 20mph over anything but a short distance.
I think I would have no option but remove my number plates.
- Simon, Harrow, UK
