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Johnson and unions clash over drink ban on trains
Mark Blunden, Evening Standard08.05.08
The new Mayor has clashed with unions for the first time over his plans to ban alcohol on public transport. In his first big policy announcement yesterday, Boris Johnson promised that the "cultural shift" on drinking would improve safety and security.
From 1 June passengers can be ordered off Tubes, trains, the DLR and buses if they are caught with a can or bottle.
Mr Johnson said: "Too many people have the unpleasant experience of sitting opposite someone swigging a can of lager."
But because a law has not yet been passed, British Transport Police will have no powers to fine passengers for about a year.
An extra 440 police community support officers, another election pledge, will help enforce the ban. But the RMT is concerned the measures would put staff at risk.
Bob Crow, RMT general secretary, said: "Perhaps the Mayor will come out with his underpants over his trousers like Superman one Saturday to show us how it should be done, and maybe tell a crowd of Liverpool supporters that they can't drink on the train."
Mr Johnson also hopes the new conditions will be "self-policing", similar to the smoking ban.
Transport for London said the ban could not be applied to trains on the national network, dealing another blow to the new Mayor's plan.
A spokesman for Department for Transport added: "Train companies already have powers to deal with any antisocial drinking on trains."
Reader views (29)
I lived in London for 30 years and I'm now living in Liverpool, if Bob Crowe would like to visit Liverpool he'll see his comments on Liverpool supporters are not only unfounded but utter rubbish. The militant days of the 80's are long gone here, we've moved on, as should you Mr Crowe, and as for banning alcohol on tubes, why not? I used to wonder why I moved from London, and people like Bob Crowe remind me why and help me remember what a good choice it was.
- Cc, Liverpool
In response to B.Shearer..
I m afraid your wrong sir.. I have on many numerous occasions advised members of the public that smoking is not permitted on any part of LUL due to the Kings Cross disaster and the subsequent inquiry and Fennell's report.
I have never had a aggressive response from any member of the public whilst informing them of these facts, most people are slightly taken aback but always pleasant.
As I stated before LUL station staff have set procedures in place to deal with incidents such as these and have the power to call the BTP to deal with aggressive or violent persons.
These measures should be embraced by all responsible tube users as the measure should help in bringing in a more stable safe environment for one and all in which to travel.
Other crimes such as begging and fraud via illegal charity collections should also be targeted and members of the public should inform Station staff of such incidents.
If you are asked to make a donation by any persons pertaining to be from a charity always ask for id and the permit issued by LUL to verify if the have the authority to make such collections, if they cannot be produced then do not make a donation and inform LUL staff as these people are committing fraud.
So with all these regulations and procedures in place Stand up & be counted by informing LUL staff.
Brian Paddick was spot on when he stated that the public have no trust with Police or organisations such as TfL & BTP. This issue needs addressing!
- Stand Up & Be Counted!!, London
All drinking and eating should be banned on all public transport, also in private transport. I don't use PT often but at times have had to sit next to people eating their breakfast and had to travel on buses of a night time with disregarded chips etc. laying on the floor.
They are talking about banning smoking in private cars, they say it is dangerous. How many people have been seen drinking coffee or a soft drink while they are driving?
They even put cup holders in cars to aid you doing it.
We used to see mess due to smoking on PT, now its empty
cups and paper due to food and drink.
Ban it all, and I and many others might use PT more?
- P C, Rainham. England.
Colin, barking essex - well lets not enforce any laws then if it is too dangerous.
- Pete, London
Bob Crow should ask his members how they now feel about his recent wasteful bribe issued from membership funds, to the Livingstone failed campaign!
- Eastender., Hempstead
It is time for Bob Crowe to pack his bags and leave, he is responsible for the poor service we currently have to put up with and seems to have personal battles to fight with taxpayers money.
- Roger, London, London, UK
England allows drinking on public transit!? Really? Are the bus drivers, themselves, allow to drink behind the wheel? Is this a stupid question--maybe, but I'm hesitant to rule out anything in jolly-old alcohol-soaked England.
- Dengue, Toronto, Canada
Livigstone spent years bending over backwards to accommodate his commie chums, like Crowe.
Boris must not cave in to the same pressure. The travelling public have the right not to be held to ransom by militant trade unions.
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster
There's not one person who has commented on this thread that would dare approach a group of drinkers and ask them to stop. Why on earth should Tube staff have to? This is an ill thought out publicity stunt, with no thought given as to how it will be policed.
- B Shearer, London
Some of the posts so far seem to think this is a referendum on Crowe. It is not.
The facts are that while it may deter some from drinking on board trains it is largely unenforceable. The service levels on LU now are so tight that delaying a train for a significant amount of time to eject a passenger drinking a tin of beer is a non starter. Let alone, say, a group of football fans on a Saturday afternoon. This is apparently to become a bye law in about 12 months. This will add to current bye laws such as not entering railway premises whilst under the influence of alcohol. If this was to be rigorously enforced I don't think there would be many passengers left on Friday and Saturday nights including maybe Boris himself (if he ever uses the tube) But hey, what do I know, I'm only a driver on the Underground.
- Steve, Herts
Drinking and indeed eating are forbidden on many metropolitan transport systems around the world. I see no reason why a ban could not be enforced in London. If Mr Crowe feels otherwise, I invite him to open a can of beer on a train in Hong Kong or Los Angeles and observe the results!
- Andy Taylor, london england
looking in at England it is about time somebody took action on the pommie disease of lager loutism and lack of social awareness. Take pride in your country the days of the Blair hypocrisy and immorality supported by the English voters has to end for your nation to have any standing in the world's eyes. No wonder the Scots want out.
- Jim, Brisbane
Colin ...why the perfect attempt at sarcasm? So you're saying that we shouldn't ban alcohol just because of the potential problems? That's like saying we shouldn't stop a murderer from "doing what their doing" in case someone is also hurt.
Why should a member of staff be stabbed simply because they may inform someone that they shouldn't be drinking? So society has come to this? This attitude and expectation of violence is exactly what's wrong with London and the UK generally ...and exactly why something like this should be put through.
Note ....a national smoking ban did not lead to mass killings!
- John, London
Thanks to the dreaded Bob Crow for clarifying my stance on this issue. If you're again it, I must be for it!
- Wpw, London
In response to John...
If as responsible citizens, for which the majority of tube users are do not stand up and speak out against those that abuse the system then we will freefall into anarchy.
I suggest rather than counting those that are breaking the regulations in future please inform a member of LUL staff and alert them to this fact and they should follow a set procedure to stop this behaviour.
If more people stand up and speak out then those that do abuse the system will feel uncomfortable just like you whilst standing and counting...
If you do not wish to inform platform staff to these incidents then you should proceed to the ticket office and inform either the Station Supervisor or a member of the ticket office staff in confidence.
Bob Crow you stated you have the interests of the travelling public at heart then please show this and support the Mayor and refrain from childish comments about pants on head.
- Stand Up & Be Counted!!, London
No doubt, Annabelle and Pete will be the first to contribute to the relief fund of any RMT member who is injured or killed when trying to enforce this law. Or perhaps they just will just fell that its one less "union nuisance" to muck their undoubtedly important lives? Of course, if really feel that society is falling apart, then they could always join the police service, and help put things right. Or is that somebody else's responsibility, too?
- Steve, Calgary, Canada
Well done Boris, in this day and age I'm surprised the powers to be haven't classified a bottle or can to be an offensive instrument.
No drinking on any public transport vehicles.
- Col, West London
Not normally one to back Bob Crow but for once the chap has a point. The job of tube staff is to operate the tube. It is not to place themselves in dangerous and confrontational situations.
All this policy is going to do is to make the outer suburbs feel as though their (petty) anxieties have been addressed, whilst police officers will be pulled off the streets in the inner city estates where they are really needed, so that this little rule can be enforced by them asking people to get off trains/buses. Way to go and 'solve' inner city crime.
Let's face it, this rule won't even stop inebriates from using the tube as most people who choose to down ten pints on a night out do so prior to boarding the tube home and puking everywhere.
This is a populist headline grabber and will have zero practical benefit.
- Mark, Vauxhall
They should ban alcohol in public. It should only be served in bars, your home or licensed events. We have too many yobs walking around with a can of Stella thinking they are jack the lad, with a knife in the back pocket!
- Brandon Ward, London UK
Boris Johnson is an educated, civilised man who is trying to improve the life of regular Londoners, and visitors to our wonderful Capital.
Mr. Crowe seems like a throwback to the 1970's when people like 'Red Robbo' wrecked our car industry.
The Tube should be privatised Line by Line, that would destroy the power base of the Crowe types.
- Jon, London
Crow, he of the manic eyes and nothing else, is surplus to requirements. All he does is spout nonsense in a futile attempt to justify his (pointless) existence and shore up his (inflated) ego. Go Boris!
- Annabelle, London
When the first PCSO or Underground worker is stabbed,lets see what superman Boris says then.
- Colin, barking essex
Bob Crowe should be reminded that the Undergound runs mainly for the benefit of the passengers not his members.
- Pete, Barry Wales
Well done Boris. It is awful to sit opposite men who cannot go beyond 4.00 without a can of beer, and listen to their unfunny sexist comments. And a lot of the accidents on the underground happen because of alcohol consumption generally people don't smoke on trains so I think they will also take notice of the alcohol ban. And Bob Crowe should grow up and think of the customers not just his "members"
- Rita, Essex
Why "Liverpool supporters"? Does Comrade Crowe think they're more drunk or dangerous than Londoners? That remark says a lot about him.
- Tommy Judd, London UK
'Self-policing' as in "no-one in authority is going to do anything about it"? I travel daily on the tube and have yet to see someone told to put out a cigarette, let alone fined. When the Piccadilly line ground to a halt at Acton Town last week I counted at least a dozen people smoking openly in front of the station staff. But if your Oyster card is 20p short...
- John, London
I think Bob Crow needs to get over the fact that London now has a Conservative Mayor and stop being so uncooperative.
- Edward Bellamy, London, UK
Make the fine a sobering one (payment on the spot or frogmarched to cash machine or police station) and this will go a long way towards 'self-policing'. Full steam ahead, well done Boris.
- Graham Gilbert, Lancashire
Who didn't see this coming? It's sunny season and Bob Crowe's boys need any old excuse for a holiday.
- A Loafer, Tooting
