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'Review mega-mosque in wake of bomb trial'
Paul Waugh, Deputy Political Editor09.09.08
Ministers should review plans to build a "mega-mosque" in the East End in the wake of the airline bomb plot trial, the Tories urged today.
Shadow security minister Dame Pauline Neville-Jones said the case had shown that the group behind the mosque may have given cover to extremist activity.
Tablighi Jamaat, which describes itself an Islamic missionary organisation, is pushing for the mosque to be built next to the 2012 Olympics site in Stratford.
But the group was revealed in court as having links to some of the terror suspects, with several having passed through other mosques run by the group.
The organisation, which has 80 million followers worldwide, insists it is a peaceful, apolitical revivalist movement that promotes Islamic consciousness among individual Muslims.
But intelligence agencies have cautioned that its ability to radicalise young men could lead to jihadist terrorism.
The London Markaz, which some say will be the largest place of worship in Europe, has faced criticism of its backers and allegations of Saudi funding since it was first mooted three years ago.
The complex will include a three-storey Islamic centre able to hold at least 40,000 worshippers and up to 70,000 if necessary.
The plans will have to go before Newham council but Mayor Boris Johnson may have a say and, in theory, it could be called in by the Government.
Dame Pauline, former chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, said today: "The news that the terrorists convicted of the liquid bomb plot attended Tablighi Jamaat mosques is very disturbing. This is not the first time this has happened. Those convicted of the 7/7 bombings read Tablighi Jamaat sermons. Tablighi Jamaat claims to be solely a missionary organisation with a religious and charitable purpose."
But Dame Pauline believes it gives cover to extremist activity. She said: "This must be taken into account when considering the planning application for the Tablighi-Jamaat mosque in east London." Kafeel Ahmed, who died from burns last year after trying to set off a car bomb at Glasgow airport, is among --terrorists whose radicalisation has been blamed on Tablighi Jamaat.
Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, two of the 7/7 suicide bombers, attended the European headquarters of Tablighi Jamaat in Dewsbury, West Yorks, while Muktar Ibrahim, leader of the failed 21 July bomb plot in 2005, attended a Tablighi Jamaat mosque in east London. The group belongs to the ultra-conservative Deobandi branch of Sunni Islam, whose adherents run more than 600 of Britain's 1,350 mosques. Critics include the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford. It claims the mosque will attract "religious fundamentalists and cultural supremacists".
Reader views (61)
Here's a sample of the latest views published.
Wonderful comment Bethnal Green, I agree 100 per cent with you.
- Unknown, Bolton
- Mo, Bethnal Green
Muslims did not start WW1, WW2, the Korean War, Vietnam, civil wars in Africa, Latin America, Asia, Europe, etc. Throughout history, misguided people of all religions have killed in the name of religion. If you are interested, I would be happy to recommend some books/articles to read concerning events in contemporary history, such as the riots that led to the killings of Muslims (by Hindus) in India, or the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda. These events may not receive the same amount of media coverage as "Muslim terrorism," but that does not make them less relevant. Hitler claimed his policies in the name of Christianity. The British invoked god into the reasons they did what they did. Bush does it too. Remember when President McKinley was commanded by God (via a dream) to bring Christianity and civilization to the Philippines? We got Jews killing and stealing land right now because God said it was theirs. This one-sided blaming of Muslims for committing crimes in the name of their religion is disingenuous considering the role of Christianity and Judaism.
- Is, London
70,000 of them all in one place at the same time. What could possibly go wrong?
Petrol and matches anyone?
- Jimbob, Kensington
the comments from nearly everyone here make me laugh so much, how ignorant and ill informed people are is sheer disbelief
- Hafizur Rahman, london, stratford
My Grandmother survived "the final solution to the Jewish problem". We have to stop this hatred before we are next faced with "the final solution to the Muslim problem". It really could happen you know.
- Jane Bewick, London
The IRA was a secular, Marxist organisation with political goals.
Ties to the Roman Catholic Church were cultural and historical as oppsoed to religous.
The IRA did not set off bombs 'for god' or pretend to do anything in gods name.
- Butch, London, UK
Londoners should write to Boris, Newham Council and Labour. We should do what Muslims do - use our force of numbers to persuade our leaders to ditch this idea. There are 1.6 million Muslims in the UK. That means there are 60 million non-Muslims. Is it not time that the non-Muslims start being heard? Is it not time that we stop rolling over and being weak in the face of organisations such as Tablighi-Jamaat? No to their mosque and their hatred. No policitian will go against the views of 60 million people.
- Anthony, London, W2
W.Joseph, Ebs, Roy,
Are you all dyslexic ?
I Stands for Irish
R Stands for Republican
A Stands for Army.
It was the IRA not the ICA
- Chris, Newham London
- Roy, England
Your naivety is laughable. Once again we have somebody who is simply incapable of understanding the profound threat that is posed to our society by Islam.
Christianity is a fundamental part of our society, Roman Catholic, Protestant, it doesn't matter which. It is a progressive belief (politics). I am an atheist by the way. The IRA did not justify their actions by some perverted view of their faith.
Islam on the other is a step back into the middle ages, it is a controlling, manipulative "politics". It is driven by insecure, male chauvinist men who want us to suffer hell on earth for their beliefs. Woman are to be bought and sold like cattle. They are not allowed to pray in Mosques, honour killings are common practise. Forcing children to beat themselves until they bleed? Burying women alive in pits because they want to choose their own husbands?
The Muslims do not want to integrate into our society, they want to take it over and control it. Saudi Arabia are a bigger threat than Al-Qaeda and our weak, pathetic government are blind the threat.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
Roy,
Do you know Newham ? Newham and Tower Hamlets have been ethnically cleansed in the past 3 decades.
If this Mosque is built, it will become the Mecca for Muslims all over Europe.
Essex will be next, it will become the "Muslim Quarter" of the South East.
Just because they were catholic does not mean they "foughtt for" their Catholic beliefs.
- Chris, Eas Hamistan London
Martin I think I'd help pay for your ticket. England has been multi-cultural for decades. Live with it!
- Richard, London, England
Like Roy said we didn't ban the building of RC Churches when the IRA were bombing London did we? Nor did we ban the building of Synagogues when our British Soldiers were being bombed by Jewish militants in Palestine (which was under British administration at the time). Why didn't we? because we British believe in live & let live, and because we do not consider it right to brand an entire Religion or ethnic group for the actions committed by the criminals in their midst, which at the end of the day is what the people who commit such heinous acts are...criminals! They do not reflect on the majority of the followers of their faith.
- W Joseph, London, England
40-70,000 worshippers ?
Is this place a barracks for Jihadi troops in the capital of this mainly Christian country ?
- Cap, london, uk
Not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists appear to be Muslims!!!With Christians being attacked in India, home grown terrorists on trial in our courts, who can realistically be in any doubt that such a place would be an HQ for terrorism. The thing that still makes Britain great is our tolerance for others freedoms, including their religious freedoms. However, in the modern world this seems to work only in one direction ... time to toughen up, ditch the PC, Christians would NEVER be allowed to build such a thing in Muslim countries.We have enough mosques in this country for the Muslim population already!!!!Such a building, in such a prominent position is a political statement!!!
- Paige, Nottingham UK
Pauline Neville Jones should be ashamed of publishing this half-baked rubbish. Your picture is of an Architect's model, showing a development covering the whole site. A planning application for a Mosque less than half that size was turned down in March 2001. The reasons were serious difficulties of pedestrian and vehicular access to the site. They still haven't been solved.
- Alan Griffiths, Forest Gate, LONDON. UK
There is no case whatsoever to build this monstrosity. Where are our vertebrate politicians?
- Mark Cleminson, Richmond BC
When will we hear of the mega- church being built in Saudia Arabia. Never is the answer. Who was paid off for this bomb making factory?
- David Kenny, Edmonton
ENOUGH ALREADY - surely someone will say NO.
Where is the British backbone ??? It will encourage troublemakers to head to England and WE DONT NEED THE ONES WE ALREADY HAVE. Envisioning a parallel in Saudi is all you need - it would not be allowed. So if they wish to build such a mosque - go home and do it for you brothers at home.
- Rosie, Tucson, AZ, USA
Mega Mosques, mega churches, mega whatever,- they are all the same - a meeting ground for religious weirdos. The fact is that having 40 - 70,000 nutters, irespective of the particular religion, grouping together to self feed on their delusional rantings, is never a good idea. Planning laws should restrict the size of such places to a max of 500 people or less. Anything more is a recipe for disaster.
- Jeff, Hobart, Australia
Mega Mosques, mega churches, mega whatever,- they are all the same - a meeting ground for religious weirdos. The fact is that having 40 - 70,000 nutters, irespective of the particular religion, grouping together to self feed on their delusional rantings, is never a good idea. Planning laws should restrict the size of such places to a max of 500 people or less. Anything more is a recipe for disaster.
- Jeff, Hobart, Australia
UK KO'd - while sleeping. By who?
- Lehammer, LA, USA
Who will stand up and fight to save Britain?
- Connie, U.S.
When are our leaders going to wake up to what most British people are aware of? Britain's secular, democratic tradition is under threat. There is a powerful clique, backed by Saudi Arabia, which has an agenda to make Britain an Islamic state. A two-pronged plan, to radicalise young Muslims and undermine British democracy, will pave the way to this goal.
Terrorism and the threat of terrorism create fear, and gives our failing, irrational government the excuse to increase its control over us and impose extreme measures to remove our freedom and rights. All this weakens our society, making it more vulnerable to the overthrow of our traditional way of life.
It is right that a democratic society should allow religious freedom, but that is quite different from giving way to every religious demand or allowing one religion to become more and more dominant. Even a tiny attempt to push the Christian viewpoint, let alone build a church, would be crushed in a Muslim country (especially in Saudi Arabia), yet our government eagerly hands over more power to forces that are a threat to our whole lifestyle and freedom.
In their fervour to succumb to Saudi pressure, our government is betraying the people it was elected to protect. There are already huge mosques in Morden and Regents Park, and thousands of others around Britain. Most people don’t want the largest mosque in Europe, even without its potential link with Islamicism.
- Stan, Midlands, UK
so when the ira were bombing britain did we close the churches down they attended. Is there any evidance the mosq is traing terrorist im sure M.I.5 has undercover agents attending these mosqs and monitoring what is said and done in these places. Use your brains people this is properganda. Just because a covicted terorist went to the mosq it does not meen that mosq trained him. If he went to a church would the church be implicated. Where is the evidance. In 2006 the police investigated a muslim school in east sussex spent 1 milllion pounds of our tax money and nothing was found just because abu hamza in the past visted the school.
- Ebs, london england
Do we seriously want a mosque capable of seating 40,000 or even 70,000 worshippers? Absolutely ludicrous completely out of scale even for our vast and rapidly growing muslim population. It will become a European Mecca (no pun intended)do we really want or need this given the obvious deep seated antipathy many muslims have towards Britain?
- Sj, Thames Valley
Plans to kill the UK Prime Minister, 7/7, 9/11, plots to explode planes, murder of Bhutto, attacks on Pakistan's Prime Minister, muslim terrorists seeking a dirty bomb all make non-muslims fear a strong islam.
Oil revenues funded $75 bn spent since 2000 on mosques, preachers, academics, and activists using takeyya across Europe. Are people concerned? The EU agrees it.
Burying women alive in Pakistan, and 3 million girls a year having genital removal is for purity and culture, while murder of daughters for 'honour' is normal in islam. Why should others question it?
Some moderate muslims may 'say' islam is peace and honour, but most muslims praise Mohammed for his 70 raids conquering booty, slaves and land from non-muslims. It worked in 630 AD, and many lands are still under control, so why not work it now, like Dafur?
Killing someone for changing faith is normal in muslim countries. But only 33% of UK muslims agree. The muslim art of takeyya (deception and lies) is used constantly, as allowed by the koran. Why are non-muslims surprised about lies and deception normal to muslim life?
Most of the Middle East know Jesus did over 30 miracles, was crucified, rose to life with his message of forgiveness for all, with love for God and enemies. But bibles are banned in muslim countries. While the law is to murder anyone choosing another faith, staying alive is tricky. Why do muslims need new values?
- Mo, Bethnal Green
Will Saudi Arabia allow us to build a mega-church in Mecca and Medina? Islamic countries (as well as parts of western Europe & the BBC) are incredibly intolerant towards Christianity.
How many more train bombings, airliner plots, and other terrorist acts and bombings does the UK, Europe, Canada, NZ, Australia and the USA need before we wake up? mass immigration will destroy the West.
- Freddy, Tampa, Florida USA
Building a mega mosque next to the Olympic stadium is clearly an act of arrogance and aggression. Londoners don't want it.
- Derek, London
Will attract "Religious fundamentalists and cultural supremacists"- so what's new about that
- Cestor, London
Surely the perfect solution is to tell the Saudis that they will receive permission to build the mosque, when they give similar permission for the building of a Christian cathedral in Saudi-Arabia.
- William Boreham, mitcham uk
I Can't believe its even being seriously considered. We have a fundemental problem with extremism which threatens the lives of every man woman and child in the UK. Hence allowing such an huge structure would send completely the wrong message to the majority of neglected non muslims.
- Steve, Hereford
There should be no question that all have freedom of religious expression but other religions should be practised discreetly alongside the host culture.
Such an enormous mosque is bound to create racial tensions.
- Nick, London
This mosque is not being biuilt as a factory to produce terrorists. That is not the fear and that is not the real reason people oppose it.
It is being built as a symbol that Islam is growing in influence and dominance in London and the Uk - and that is why many British people oppose it.
- Danny, London
I think we should let them build it, right after they let us build a big cathedral in Saudi Arabia i.e. NEVER!!
- Ian, New Orleans, USA
You guys are so screwed over there.
- Steve, washington dc
hasn't anyone in this darn City watched undercover mosque? It clearly shows that Most all mosques can even control what is happening inside their own walls - So why would we allow a Mega-Mosque so more hate can be preach.. Islam is not a faith of democracy but of oppression! name one Islamic state that is Democratic and free.?
maybe we should all wake up and voice our objections before all of our once great heritage is erased..
- Phil, London
if you google this plan you can see building seems to have started in places without planning permission at West Ham.....polluted ground, parking issues etc don't seem to be stopping contruction......it just gets started ....and there seem to be a lot of mosques in E London already
- Ed, London
The British get dumped on left and right, and all they do is turn around and say "Thank you!". Forty years of deceit and lies from politicians have cost them their country (now an E.U. province). Endless E.U. Directives have cost them their unique character. Politicians have given themselves gold-plated goodies, such as their deluxe pension plan. And the British just keep taking it. They know if Cameron gets in, he will lie and deceive just as much as Brown. This massive mosque being imposed. The British will accept it just as they accept every other imposition. Is it any wonder that on this website poster after poster on various issues just dream of somehow being able to get away from the U.K.? Soon another lollipop time will come and go, and Brown wil be gone. But nothing will change.
- Phil Jones, London UK
I thought sport was a faith - lets focus on one massive temple to sport in East London and keep all religious faiths at an appropriate distance.
Is a any religios building that houses 70,000 people a good thing? I doubt it - especially where any of the sons of abraham are concerned. Less religion more faith. Especially if this is being supported by what is well know fundamentalist beliefs. Oi vey!
- Jc, SE1
When are our leaders going to wake up to what most British people are aware of? Britain's secular, democratic tradition is under threat. There is a powerful clique, backed by Saudi Arabia, which has an agenda to make Britain an Islamic state. A two-pronged plan, to radicalise young Muslims and undermine British democracy, will pave the way to this goal.
Terrorism and the threat of terrorism create fear, and gives our failing, irrational government the excuse to increase its control over us and impose extreme measures to remove our freedom and rights. All this weakens our society, making it more vulnerable to the overthrow of our traditional way of life.
It is right that a democratic society should allow religious freedom, but that is quite different from giving way to every religious demand or allowing one religion to become more and more dominant. Even a tiny attempt to push the Christian viewpoint, let alone build a church, would be crushed in a Muslim country (especially in Saudi Arabia), yet our government eagerly hands over more power to forces that are a threat to our whole lifestyle and freedom.
In their fervour to succumb to Saudi pressure, our government is betraying the people it was elected to protect. There are already huge mosques in Morden and Regents Park, and thousands of others around Britain. Most people don’t want the largest mosque in Europe, even without its potential link with Islamicism.
- Stan, Midlands, UK
Yes Roy, "most of the IRA terrorists to attack London over the years had "associations" with various Roman Catholic churches, but no ever thought that justified banning new RC churches" but then when did the Catholic church apply to build a 70,000 seat church in the centre of London, funded by dubious foreign investors? Wake up, it's apologists like you that encourage the authorities to roll over to the Jihadists and their backers.
- Sam, Basingstoke, England
As a resident of Newham for 42 years and one who lives 2 minutes from the proposed site, all I ask is when do I get a say in this matter. I for one do not want the area changed for good by this monstrosity. It is totally out of character with the traditions of the area and does not serve the local population. Where are these 70,000 people going to park for instance? We already have parking restrictions that were brought in due to the millenium dome and that is not even on our side of the river!!! And what happens when West Ham play at home and another 35,000 people are travelling through the area? No lets stop this nonsense right now and start giving local people, not people travelling into the area, what they want and need!!
- Jc, London
Please NO 2012 will be such a target for terroism agree with Dave from USA why are people so scared to stand up for what we believe - no PC correct???
- Helen, London
Shouldn't Muslims be encouraged to integrate more into our society rather than be offered somewhere to
reinforce their differences ?
- M Wilkinson, London UK
Sad to say, but a 70,000 seater Anglican church would probably have an awful lot of empty seats.
- Jonty, London
One thing is for sure, if this does go ahead then i am leaving the country on a one way ticket.
- Martin, London
Hey Cousins: You need to get your old back bones out of storage and stand up for King and country again that's what made you great in the past. Remember Winston!
- Dave, Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Tell them to build it in Waziristan, then we will all be happy!!
- Kerry Trubee, purley
Absolutely it should be reviewed. Reviewed and scrapped, ideally!
I could imagine the uproar if the Church of England tried to build a mega-church in Saudi Arabia! There'd be bloodshed!
Building this monstrosity will be yet another nail in the coffin of our once "Great" Britain.
- Jock, London
Wales, Timms, Johnson and Brown will have blood on their hands.
- Chris, London
Why on earth would this government allow planning permission for a mosque next to the olympic stadium, Muslims in the country have no value for life and would not think twice about causing carnage during the 2012 games.
- Raminder Bhalla, Northolt
Can you imagine the Anglican congregation getting permission to build a 70,000-seater church in Middle Wallop? Why do folk elect nutters to represent them?
- Taff Jones, London, UK
This is being funded from aboard who are these people?
- Maggie, London
Sarah, there will be no riots even if the mosque is built, with all its implications; we English are too supine.
- Helen, norwich
Why the debate?We know it will go ahead anyway.
Just one of the many reasons I didn't care for 'TeamGB' in Beijing.Britain isn't Britain anymore.
- Steve, London
the british authorities are easily convinced by the saudis that this is not exactly so and are literally looking the other way - how can anyone trust these same people who are supposed to secure the country. money talks. this mess the country is in was created by who else
- Aster, london uk
It will be built,just like the Regents park Mosque was built and all the others.
In the end,nobody will have the courage to say no.
- David Nigel Braham, Milan Italy
you have got to be kidding ?? I think we have given in more than enough.
- Steve, Barnet
And most of the IRA terrorists to attack London over the years had "associations" with various Roman Catholic churches, but no ever thought that justified banning new RC churches from being built did they?
- Roy, England
If we can't control the rantings of some preachers in the already established mosques, how on earth can do we so in place such as this?
- Scott, London
Surely the council & government will not allow this to take place...well unless they want riots on their hands that is.
- Sarah, London
