Afternoon:
10°c
Phones log plan 'is awful Big Brother nightmare'
Martin Bentham, Home Affairs Editor15 Oct 2008
MINISTERS were today warned by their own anti-terrorism watchdog that plans to log every phone call, email and internet visit in the UK could turn into an "awful" Big Brother nightmare.
Lord Carlile of Berriew, the independent reviewer of anti-terrorist laws, said he was concerned by suggestions that such a large volume of private information could be stored on one vast new database.
He said there would be the risk of the data being used for unjustified "fishing expeditions" into the private lives of targeted individuals. He also expressed concern over Whitehall's recent "unhappy record" of losing supposedly secure data.
Lord Carlile's warning was issued ahead of a speech today by Home Secretary Jacqui Smith setting out her latest plans for combating the terrorist threat.
Ms Smith was preparing to set out further details of the plan to log details of all phone, email and internet use in the UK.
Proposals on this are due to be contained in a Data Communications Bill, to be introduced in the Queen's Speech in December. Lord Carlile warned storing the information on one huge database would be a mistake unless strict controls were adopted.
"As a raw idea, it is awful," he said. "However it is a question of how it is developed. Searches should be made on a case-by-case basis with reviewing measures so that they can't be done willy-nilly."
Under the proposed legislation, internet service providers and telephone companies would hand over millions of phone and internet records to the Home Office which would store them for at least 12 months. Richard Thomas, the information commissioner, has described the plans as "a step too far for the British way of life".
Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said: "The Government must justify the case for any such massive increase in state acquisition of data, spell out the safeguards to prevent abuse and, given its appalling record, explain how it will protect the integrity of any database."
Reader views (28)
Doesn't this go against article 23 of the ECHR which states a right to a private family life?
- P I, London, 16/10/2008 16:43
Report abuse
What's the point of spending all of this taxpayers money when the people the authorities are after can easily circumnavigate the controls by telephoning each other over/through the internet?
- John Clifford, Luzern, Switzerland, 16/10/2008 15:53
Report abuse
@Damian Hockney: If you're right about that, and you may well be, then it would be better to either change the EU directive or our response to it, rather than accept it forced on us?
There is only "no choice" in a limited set of circumstances. There is always change.
- Angus, London, UK, 16/10/2008 13:30
Report abuse
Nu Labor take your Mr. Bean Brown and go away I say!!
- Georgie, London, 16/10/2008 13:26
Report abuse
Yeeah! Its true I telt ye. Its all them 'Kommie Kommisssars' and ex-Stazi functionaries of the old East Germany now getting into posts in the EU Commission.
- Uncle Vanya, England, 16/10/2008 10:29
Report abuse
5/6ths of lawful is awful.
- Dave, cumbria, 16/10/2008 10:04
Report abuse
Do we still have any Citizens rights or personal rights to Privacy? We oughtn't to worry about our Home Address or Bank Account or Tax details as they have long been in the Public Domain thanks to the efficiency of our Civil Service; however, Emails, Phone Calls and what we Surf on the Web?? I thought The Matrix was Sci-Fi
- Cromwell, Woking, England, 16/10/2008 09:03
Report abuse
one of many steps to far
- Katie, Hong Kong ( Ex - pat from UK), 16/10/2008 06:13
Report abuse
What I cannot understand is the failure of all commentators to make clear that this Bill simply enacts a demand by the European Union. Germany has already passed the equivalent and this bill is to enact EU Directive 2006/24/EC on the retention of communications data into UK law. There is no option. There is no choice. If you want to remain in the EU you have to rubberstamp this bill. The UK government will be acting illegally if it fails to pass the Bill. There is no point Tories and LibDems attacking it - they will be barred from getting rid of it if they are elected into power. Do they tell you this?...
- Damian Hockney, London, UK, 15/10/2008 23:24
Report abuse
What happens if there is a change of regime i.e a dictatorship.Can't happen here!Tell that to the people who have lost all financially in Icelandic banks,or the communists in Eastern Europe when they lost power.They said it can't happen here.Once in place the technology and laws can be used against us now and at a future date.CAN'T HAPPEN HERE!The local councils use existing Anti-terror laws to find if you've made correct application for your child's school placement!
- Barry Cox, Haywards Heath. UK, 15/10/2008 23:20
Report abuse
This whole scheme has nightmare written all over it. Who's going to run it? The Civil Servants who lose records or the private contractors who messed up the passport system / school test results etc. Any Tom, Dick or Harry could be entering or retrieving results - hasn't the government heard of temps?
Theoretically, it's meant to be preventing terrorism - but seeing as most terrorists are "clean" or have multiple identities, surely it will in fact provide a massively useful information tool.
- Danny, Shoreditch, London, 15/10/2008 18:53
Report abuse
This isn't the Communist bloc is it? What right do Government have to listen to my private communications? They serve us not the other way around. Pleeeeaaase can we have an election ASAP!?
- Mark, London, 15/10/2008 18:01
Report abuse
As Blackstone Coke says, laws put in place by "good" people can easily be used for purposes to which they were not originally intended, and possibly by "bad" people for "bad" purposes. The recent instance of the use of terrorism laws to freeze Icelandic assets is a case in point - although it was a use of the terrorism legislation for "good" purposes, it was still misuse of those laws. They could so easily be misused for "bad" purposes.
- Jon B, London, 15/10/2008 18:00
Report abuse
You may vote for whom you like: the agenda to implement an Orwellian dystopia will carry on regardless of who occupies No 10.
- Neil, London UK, 15/10/2008 16:39
Report abuse
These sorts of plans, for surveillance and ever more detailed tracking of people's movements and activities, are repeatedly presented as if they had no down-side for "good" people. This is naive. Nice Ministers, like the current Home Secretary, will put in place all of the tools necessary for an efficient police state. There is also the question of cost. This will not be cheap. I heard £12bn quoted for this programme. Could the money be used in more effective ways? -- "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance".
- Blackstone Coke, London, 15/10/2008 16:39
Report abuse
Never has a Govt. been so afraid of the electorate and man-in-the-street as this one.
- Adam, Harrow, UK, 15/10/2008 16:01
Report abuse
Vote this shower out at the next election, it will do NOTHING to combat the terorism they have bought on this country.
- P I Staker, London, 15/10/2008 15:21
Report abuse
What a rediculous proposal. Those comitting crimes will just start using 256 bit encryption for their emails - which is impossible to crack. All these proposals will do is erode our civil liberties, and fail to bring any benefits for national security.
- Mark Lee, Vauxhall, 15/10/2008 14:07
Report abuse
This is yet another draconian raft of powers, ushered in under the anti-terror banner mainly for use elsewhere. I would not be surprised if there are bods in departments, quangos, etc. that are already planning uses for the data and ways to abuse Crown Immunity against criminal prosecution to circumvent any safeguards. Gordie, damn the reshuffle, new deck please.
- Ian, London, 15/10/2008 14:00
Report abuse
The real reasons for wanting to keep all of this information are 100% political and nothing to do with national security or combating crime.
NuLabour, spurred on by their masters in Brussels, are determine to have control of every facet of our lives in order to stifle political opposition by those of us that would preserve freedom and democracy.
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 15/10/2008 14:00
Report abuse
This must never happen, it it does when will it stop? Computer chipping babies and tracking every move and thing you say in life? Labour are communists in disguise!
- Brandon Thomas, London UK, 15/10/2008 13:25
Report abuse
So how long until this is passed (read: lost) to the MPA for them to start prosecuting children downloading music?
As Benjamin Franklin said, "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
- Heath, London, 15/10/2008 12:57
Report abuse
Hey look everyone Jacqui 'woman of the people' Smith has gone out to buy a pint of milk in her constituency with a couple of 'friends'.
It's totally safe on the streets thank to new labour
- Jimbob, Kensington, 15/10/2008 12:31
Report abuse
If this is to defeat terrorism it will not work unfortunately as people intent on causing mayhem will find others ways to communicate. It is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut....or many nutcases!
- Sheila, london uk, 15/10/2008 11:44
Report abuse
Never going to happen. Firstly the Govt will give the project to one of their tried-and-untrustworthy pet suppliers like EDS, after a cursory show at tender of course. Then EDS will faff around for six years, doubling the price of the fixed price contract before declaring the project 'untenable' or something. EDS board members all enobled, labour party donations secured.
- Squiz, Islington, 15/10/2008 11:34
Report abuse
Jacqui Smith seems really taken with the East German model doesn't she ? Behind the happy democratic facade, everyone spied on and more and more people employed in spying. She should of course remember how it ended, as totalitarian regimes should end, with Hoenecker and Co in disgrace if not in jail.
- Peter Haldane, London, 15/10/2008 11:24
Report abuse
Vote Labour and this is what you get.It's what they stand for.If you did vote for this shower none of you should be surprised or outraged.It was in the post.
- Steve, London, 15/10/2008 11:03
Report abuse
Presumably these people have never heard of Echelon in Menwith Hill, which has been hoovering up every phone call, fax, email and text message for years and years! Do these poltroons think we're stupid or something?
- Neil, london uk, Airstrip ONE ., 15/10/2008 11:00
Report abuse
