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Rule change 'abolishes' overcrowding on trains
Nicholas Cecil, Chief Political Correspondent15 Oct 2008
GOVERNMENT officials have abolished train overcrowding - by changing its definition.
The Department for Transport, which has promised extra carriages, has rewritten the guidelines on the acceptable number of people standing.
Formerly, it was considered acceptable to have 10 people standing for every 100 seats. Under new guidelines it is all right to have 30 standing per 100 seats.
Train companies will be able to pack in more passengers without their services being labelled "overcrowded".
The news comes as commuters were warned of years of "cattle-truck" conditions despite inflation-busting fare rises. The National Audit Office said passengers would endure packed trains until 2014, when 1,300 extra carriages and longer platforms will be introduced.
It gave the warning after Centro, the public transport authority in the West Midlands, complained that the new definition of overcrowding would result in worse conditions that would force people off trains and into cars.
To date, only 423 of the 1,300 carriages have been ordered from the manufacturer and none has been delivered. A Department of Transport spokesman said he was unable to give details of when they would arrive but that they should be in place by 2014. At the same time, fares are rising to deter passengers from travelling on the most crowded trains.
A spokesman for the National Audit Office said: "Most passengers can expect to pay higher regulated and unregulated fares in the future."
The audit office highlighted how some tickets had jumped in price by 20 per cent. It also warned train companies could enjoy a "windfall of extra revenue" if income targets were not changed.
MPs said commuters would be angry at the failure to ease overcrowding more quickly under the Transport Department's £10 billion programme.
"The news that fares are likely to rise above inflation in these difficult times will infuriate many passengers who have no alternative but to travel day after day on packed trains," said Edward Leigh, chairman of the Commons public accounts committee.
"Rush-hour crowding is expected to increase, especially on lines into London, until 1,300 new carriages come on stream. For passengers, this increased capacity cannot come too soon." Shadow transport secretary Theresa Villiers added that too many passengers were still suffering "cattle class accommodation".
Most regulated fares, such as saver, peak-time and season tickets, have risen by inflation plus one per cent, under rules agreed between the train firms and Government. Next year bosses will be able to raise some fares by 6.3 per cent, as the Retail Price Index was 5.3 per cent in the summer. Companies also have a two per cent leeway on some fare increases.
Fares on Southeastern, which serves Charing Cross, Cannon Street and Victoria, could see 10 per cent rises. On top of inflation and the two per cent leeway, it is permitted a three per cent rise to pay for high-speed services on the Channel Tunnel link from Ashford into St Pancras, plus the two per cent flexibility.
The annual taxpayer subsidy to the railways is set to fall from £811 million to £326 million by 2011/12.
The Transport Department spokesman said: "Our plans will ensure that the rail network can cope with more than 20 per cent growth by 2014, on a network which will be even safer and more reliable."
Reader views (41)
I have seen people faint on a hot, overcrowded train during summer. Another fine example that shows thsi country is not run for its people but for the people who run it.
In France people would simply stop using the train and let their owners get on with it.
- Viola, London, United Kingdom, 19/12/2008 09:01
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In sydney every train station has a disabled lift. It is about time that the stations in the uk followed this example.
- Richard Daley, sydney australia, 05/12/2008 01:32
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I assume the civil servants have to provide no supporting evidence that 30 standing for every 100 seated is possible yet alone reasonable. Really I pity those for whom overcrowded trains cause a major headache - the elderly, disabled, pregnant women, parents with children - and you can't tell these people they can never travel in rush hour, it's sometimes unavoidable. My wife who is pregnant would love to be offered a seat if only she could get anywhere near a seat through the crowds of standing passengers.
Ng - Well how wise. So imagine you lose your nice job, close to your house and can only get another one 20 miles away and can't afford to move because of the housing crash. Would you rather be unemployed or travel to work? Likewise if your job moves 20 miles up the road do you move your kids out of their school to make your commute shorter? I thought not.
- Nigel, Streatham, London, 03/12/2008 14:21
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My usual train has probably 30/40 to every 100 sitting pax. I actually saw a passenger fall out when the doors opened this morning in Lewisham. If this is acceptable, then I would like to invite the public servants that make these "adjustments" to take the peak Hayes to Charing Cross train. Why would the Government care anyways? Their policy is to allow train operators to make more revenue to meet their targets...
- Marc, London, Uk, 01/12/2008 13:01
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Brilliant!
And they say government can't solve problems.
- John J. Kavanagh, Mercer Island, WA, USA, 28/11/2008 03:58
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Apparently anything good enough for Nj is good for everyone else.
He takes no account of age, health, income and family circumstances.
- Minnie, London, UK, 27/11/2008 17:44
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As the great Sir Francis de Knighle said back in 1900...'A public servant can gain immense satisfaction through frustrating the application of common sense.' Seems nothing has changed.
- George Fripley, Australia, 23/11/2008 23:56
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I see the usual predictable whining here… 30 people standing per 100 seated doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. Most commuter journeys are under half an hour anyway (mine is around 20 minutes), which is a reasonable time to stand. If you have to travel for longer and don’t like it then either move nearer your office (I made the decision to move to an area with good links to my place of work) or change jobs to nearer your home.
- Nj, London, 18/11/2008 17:03
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Another perfect example of The System changing rules to suit whatever its needs are. Why do we empower an establishment which treats us, in this case, just like cattle???
We deserve better!
- A. Temple, London, 18/11/2008 13:04
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I have sked several sardines and they all comment they would rather not travel on the London Underground during the rush hour.
- John Bursby, Royal Tunbridge Wells, 17/11/2008 21:38
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When the jails are full, release inmates early.
- Tony Gee, London, 17/11/2008 15:51
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Seems this is like the change in crime statistics announced not to long ago--When crime statistics rose too high assaults were left out of the reporting
- David White, Brunswick, Georgia USA, 16/11/2008 17:24
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When the rate of underage teen sex rises, the experts say "lower the age of consent." There, problem solved.
When the crime rate rises, experts say "soften the laws." Problem solved.
- Trunk, US, 12/11/2008 01:42
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As a past victim of sardine-packing situations on Network Rail and London Underground services up to 5 years ago, can anyone confirm how many standing per hundred seats that represented?
- Marianne, SW France, 10/11/2008 12:53
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What a horribly cynical piece of legislation. This just allows the government to claim at the next election, after people have forgotten this, that "Overcrowding has been reduced by xx percent"
- Mart, Reading, 05/11/2008 21:03
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I moved to Yorkshire from London 4 years ago, having become utterly fed up and frustrated with the pathetic public "transport" system I had to use to get to work. I now have a lovely job that I can drive to, and park right outside my office, free of charge. No more public transport nightmares for me. Londoners take note.
- Yvonne, Doncaster, UK, 05/11/2008 15:29
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I think the whole underground network is a shambles. There seems to be fewer and fewer trains every week and for the last 9 weeks on the trot I've been dumped off half way through my journey because of "problems in the the city". Then on my way home, there are no Watford trains for half an hour then three come along at once. Every morning and evening are like a free for all and sometimes I simply cannot get on due to people spilling out onto the station. I don't care about the platforms. We need more, better trains and we need them NOW not in 2014!
- Antony L, Watford, 04/11/2008 20:33
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whatever - what does the difference mean? - can you claim compensation if you are on an "overcrowded" train? - whether its 10 per 100 or 100 per 100 I stand 3 out 5 evenings on a 50minute commute and can do absolutely nothing about it either now or in the future
- Lopmeister, Lewes,UK, 03/11/2008 12:38
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If animals were to be transported in this fashion there would be a national outcry.
- Nick James, London, 03/11/2008 11:17
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I for one am just grateful if I can squeeze on the train without indecently assaulting anyone and that there be enough reasonably fresh air to breath.
- Bloke, London, 31/10/2008 14:30
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Now that buses have been deregulated the maximum number of people standing cannot be physically reached.
Welcome to Labour Britain - if you can't meet the targets, change the way the figures are counted. Simple!
- Roger B, Norfolk, 29/10/2008 12:34
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I thought that ALL transportation qas licenced/certified by the manufacturer in respect of number of passengers permissible to carry. A motor car carrying more than the designated number is breaking the law, also buses have the number painted distinctly. A railway carriage is manufactured with a specific passenger number it can carry.
Now. In the case of an accident (involving a carriage) where is the Health and Safety Authority if the recommended/authorised passenger number is exceeded and death or injury can be shown to have resulted from excess passenger numbers (overcrowding)?
Surely the travelling public have a right to a ruling/definition on this topic?
I'd be interested in obtaining a legal opinion on just where the law would stand on this hidden, un-discussed, but risky to passengers situation.
- Norman Speight, London UK, 28/10/2008 15:16
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If the railways weren't regulated they would up the fares until demand came into line with capacity. That's what airlines and holiday companies do at holiday times. The other option is to increase capacity, but this may rouse opposition: witness LB Richmond's successful campaign against running Crossrail through Richmond to Kingston.
- Tonyb, Melbourne, Australia, 26/10/2008 09:26
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If there is anyone in Nu Labour left with integrity, honesty and dedication to Great Britian, would they please make themselves known.
- Joannie, London, England, 24/10/2008 13:00
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I guess if it weren't for the low tunnels and other obstacles, they'd make us hang on to the outside as well like they do in India.
- Nora, London, UK, 16/10/2008 17:07
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I regularly take the train here in Thailand up to Bangkok. I get a first class sleeper berth with aircon and waiter service. It runs on time is clean and the food and drink are very reasonable. The cost for this 800km journey, stress free and in comfort ??????????????????????????????
just over 30 quid. Now why was it I left London again
- Duncan Walker, Ex Peckham now Samui Thailand, 16/10/2008 07:09
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Labour policies at play again. If they do not come up to scratch, move the goal posts.
- Frank, Home Counties, England, 15/10/2008 19:23
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Re-defining a problem is a cowards way out. What next? Reduce the murder rate by re-defining the definition of dead?
- Peter, New Cross, London, 15/10/2008 18:30
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Was some moron paid to come up with this definition? Will we now be allowed standing passengers on short haul flights or short car journeys? Of course not. Trains are badly overcrowded! I have to agree with Martin about flexible hours. More employers allowed them 25 years ago than now. Why?
- Michael, London, 15/10/2008 18:14
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Simple! Take away all politicos official cars, and refuse to pay their transport costs, unless it is by 3rd class public transport. When politicians have to start using this rubbish 'service', they'll soon do something about it.
- L.Taubler, London UK, 15/10/2008 17:59
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After fours years of commuting into Central London and paying Tokyo prices for a Calcutta level of service, I decided enough was enough and moved to Spain.
I am considering moving back to Britain, but I'm not willing to work in London. Until a decent job outside London turns up, I can bide my time here in Spain, depriving the UK Treasury of my taxes.
- Richard, Madrid, Spain, 15/10/2008 16:04
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If the government abolished first class carriages on trains on overcrowded routes, then overcrowding would be instantly reduced.
But Labour don't want to upset their rich rail company-owning friends, so they won't do that.
- Liz, London, 15/10/2008 15:05
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Welcome to the Brave New World of NuLabour NewSpeak.
"The word overcrowding has been made illegal. It is forbidden to utter this word as it constitutes and untruth even when potentially true. Citizens who continue to use this and other banned words will be transferred to re-education camps".
It is therefore illegal to claim a train is overcrowded.
- Adam, Harrow, UK, 15/10/2008 14:51
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About time that all MPs, civil servants, quangocrats and members of the House of Lords were forced, by law if necessary, to only ever travel by train - and in cattle class
- Roger, England, 15/10/2008 14:20
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So the goalposts get moved again? We are below 3rd world on transport now.
- Paul, London, 15/10/2008 13:39
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As I understand things, the train fare entitles the holder to a seat. Therefore all trains that have fewer seats than passengers are overcrowded. This is the nightmare the train firms are (we dream) trying to address.
- Suzanne, London, 15/10/2008 13:28
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Mass uncontrolled immigration hasn't got anything to do with it has it >
- Grim Reaper, Hell, 15/10/2008 13:14
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If employers allowed their staff more flexibility with their hours, the problem would disappear. Let the early birds in to work at 7am, and the night owls can start mid morning.
- Martin H Watson, Teddington, 15/10/2008 13:03
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And politicians wonder why we do not trust them
- Jeremy E, London, 15/10/2008 12:53
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Will rail travel ever improve in the UK? I remember way back in the late sixties having to stand, or sit on my upturned suitcase, all the way from London to Darlington. The way I look at it, you are paying for a service, which should include a seat. You have paid the same as everyone else on the train. If there are no seats, and train companies allow standing, then those who stand should pay less. Every day I read on the internet about how 'bad' China is. They should try the railways here. Every passenger is allocated a seat when they buy their ticket. No one stands. In addition, the trains run on time, even across far greater distances than those experienced by UK travellers. What's more, there are no rowdy 'lager louts', every carriage or two has a conductor, and they are always, without fail, friendly and helpful, even with the language difficulties. Perhaps that can only happen when the trains are government run? Public transport, like all the utilities, should not be run just to make money, but to provide a much needed service.
- Uncle Bob, Harbin, China, 15/10/2008 11:53
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Overcrowding should be classed as those standing. With the exorbitant amounts we have to pay for train fare the least we should expect is a seat.
- Emma, Nunhead, London, 15/10/2008 10:49
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