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Brown and Cameron at war over boom and bust
Paul Waugh, Deputy Political Editor17 Oct 2008
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The gloves came off today in the bitter blame game over the economic crisis.
David Cameron launched a searing attack on Gordon Brown for wrecking the economy with his "boom and bust" policies.
In a keynote speech, he said the Prime Minister had left "a broken economy" and that Labour's strategy had "fundamentally failed".
It came at the end of a week in which Mr Brown earned a significant opinion poll "bounce" for his handling of the banking rescue. A survey found that public support for Mr Brown and Chancellor Alistair Darling had soared, with 42 per cent naming the pair as best to handle the crisis, up two points.
Mr Cameron and shadow chancellor George Osborne dropped three points to 31 per cent, said ComRes for the BBC's Daily Politics.
Determined to prevent Mr Brown cutting the 10-point Tory lead, which was already down from 20 points since the summer.
The Tory leader said the Prime Minister was personally responsible for Britain's current woes because he allowed debt and borrowing to spiral out of control in the past 10 years.
In his fiercest assault on Mr Brown since the banking crash started, Mr Cameron said that while the Conservatives backed the thrust of the Government's bail-out plan, they would ruthlessly highlight Labour's "complete and utter failure" on the economy. Mr Cameron also warned that the crash had shown that it was time for Britain to move away from its dependence on the City.
He said a more "balanced economy" should cut reliance on financial services, housing and public spending for growth and instead increase the role of hi-tech industries and manufacturing. Mr Cameron also signalled that "in coming weeks" the Tories would outline yet more policies, similar to his pledge to freeze council taxes, to help families cope with the downturn.
After weeks of appearing to be on the back foot over the financial crisis, the Tory leader used his speech to Bloomberg in the City to reject the idea that politics needed to lurch to the Left.
He rammed home the message that a bipartisan approach to recapitalisation of the banks did not mean he agreed with Mr Brown on the economy. "The complete and utter failure of their economic record has never been more clear to see.
"This crisis has highlighted just how mistaken Labour's economic policy has been. The economic assumptions that Gordon Brown made in the last decade now lie in ruins," he said.
Mr Cameron claimed Mr Brown had wrongly assumed he could run a budget deficit in a boom, that he could "let debt rip" and that he had abolished "boom and bust". "Any proper consideration of what the policies of the last decade have produced leads us to three simple words: we need change. What's happened over the past 10 years is that Labour has broken our economy and we must fix it," Mr Cameron said.
"We've had irresponsible capitalism presided over by irresponsible government. Instead, what we need is responsible free enterprise, regulated and supported by responsible government. Though Gordon Brown is trying to rescue the banks, we now need a plan to rescue the economy."
However, a new BBC Daily Politics/Com Res poll today confirmed the "bounce" in the polls for Mr Brown. It found 42 per cent considered Mr Brown and Chancellor Alistair Darling the politicians they "trust most to steer Britain's economy through the current downturn". That was an increase of two points while the Tory leader and shadow chancellor George Osborne dropped three points to 31 per cent.
Mr Cameron ridiculed the Prime Minister for telling the City four years ago that he wanted to encourage risk takers and for last year declaring "a golden age for the City of London" and added: "Now he's describing that very same time as an 'Age of Irresponsibility'.
"Gordon Brown is hoping that his whirlwind of summitry will mean that we will forget what has come before. Forget that he stripped the Bank of England of its powers to supervise the City. Forget how he actively encouraged the risk-taking culture in our banks. Forget that he promised that he had abolished boom and bust. Forget, as we enter a downturn, where jobs, home and livelihoods will be lost, that he was the one who created this mess. But I won't forget and the British people won't forget."
Asked about Mr Cameron's comments, Mr Brown said: "My undivided attention is on taking this country through the difficult times as a result of a global problem that started in America. I think the country wants everybody who can to work together through these difficult challenges."
Reader views (45)
Mr. Bean Brown is a joke and he should leave this country to the professionals. Thinks did not work out with Crash's "ideas".
- Jacqueline, Hampstead, London, 19/10/2008 21:40
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Nouthing to do with the labour for the economic crisis.Gordon brown and darling done a good job sorting out with the economic crisis they worked very hard.
if it was david cameron sorting in the economic crisis he would not have a clue where to start.
- Andy, London, 19/10/2008 21:34
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Thatcher inherited a country in hock and unimagined debts. After a previous Labour spending spree. That in turn cost a lot of Labour supporters their jobs. Any time you get something based on borrowings, one day you have to pay it back.
Under the last Labour administration the country had to call in the IMF to bail us out, but at a severe cost to ordinary people.
Thatcher inherited this mess, there was no money to pay for anything so had no choice but to cut the country’s cloth to fit so to speak.
Gordon Brown has run up more debts and borrowings that his predecessors could ever imagine. Up until now he has been keeping his fingers crossed that something might turn up. Well it has, it is called reality, and now thanks to him for emptying all the cupboards we all have to pay for it.
- Ian, Reading, England, 17/10/2008 17:20
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Good for Cameron. Sock it to this awful loser who downed the economy and now wants to be seen as its saviour - with spin and PR because he failed so dismally without it.
- Delphine, Oxford, 17/10/2008 17:17
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Like the comment "it was fun, while the economy was booming" - yes - everyone, none of us complained while it was all good times. It seems, according to this blog, we all knew it was going to go to blah! so why didn't we do something, even personally like not get ourselves into our own debt.
On this ship - we are all culpable!
Lets of the blame - more of the solution please.
- Jc, SE11, 17/10/2008 17:13
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Can you imagine the panic the people of this country would be in if PC Plum {Cameron} and Osborne had been in charge during the present crisis? devoid of any policies and their history of deregulation would have resulted with a civil war within the tory party and the country would now be in a depession. Lets not forget, Deregulation is the holy grail of the Tory party and that leave PC Plum and Osborne in a bit of a pickle right now.
- James Hennessy, London England, 17/10/2008 17:10
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Encouraging profligate lending is something which happened under Nu Labour and only under Nu Labour, as much as it pains it supporters to admit it.
Also, I think it’s reasonable to opine that Lady Thatcher would never have fiddled while the financial markets burned.
- St, London, 17/10/2008 16:54
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Oh God, this horrible little man is probably even now looking for a coalminer or a steelworker to cuddle and promise to be his best mate. Perhaps if he studies some history or even economics he will find it was J.K. Galbraith in the 1980's who warned Margaret Thatcher that her destruction of manufacturing and lionising of the City would lead to later problems. Thatcher claimed her policies as an Economic Miracle in 1987. A recession and multiple repossessions followed in 1990 and the Tories kicked her out and promised to change. Is Dave still a Thatcherite?
- Tommy Cockles, Brentford, 17/10/2008 15:59
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Cameron is an idiot and so is in the right place....
- Chris, London, 17/10/2008 15:54
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Chris, I agree with your comment on the "debt fuelled drive".
You cannot totally blame the government & the banks for lending to customers who could not afford to pay back the debt. Part of the blame must lie with people who knowingly take on loans that they cannot afford to pay back.
- Dom, London, 17/10/2008 15:51
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Brown with a little encouragement from Alan Greenspan guided us to a a manageable boom but then instead of tightening reins he gave us an unnecessary further low interest boom and then instead of tightening he gave us an unnecessary easy credit boom If bust follows a boom what follows a boom boom boom ? A long clear up maybe.
- Mick, London UK, 17/10/2008 15:36
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Curious that all pro Brown labour comments here seem in a similar style, perhaps the same person. Pathetic when you see the disaster labour has created. Labour party £40m in debt, is a symbol of what has happened to the UK economically, socially and morally.
Parts of Glasgow have lower life expectancy than poorest Africa. Labour grip power like a noose. Vote labour, or else. Brown said over Ecclestone 'I lied. I will be destroyed'. His huge boom in public and private borrowing has created an asset bubble to rival any historic Crash. This UK crash is all BROWN'S CRASH.
He changed RPI to CPI too low so too low interest rates. Brown boasted 'no more Bust' conned into extra debts. He could have held back the boom and softened the bust. But he was too busy spinning boasts. That itself was a nasty warning. This Bust, and the next Bust are both Brown's.
The FT says the 'public sector pension black hole' dwarfs total recent injections of public funds. It is 'not on balance sheet, not in budget and not valued properly'.
Brown lied over Ecclestone. He has deceived for 10 years. He made a vast boom and bust. He is hiding future debts taxpayers will face, and he stole away our pensions. Caught by his own stupidity he taxed the poor when ending the 10 pence rate to buy middle earner's votes. Brown should hang his head in shame after burning down our house, not boasting. An idiot.
- Lefty, downing street, 17/10/2008 15:11
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Actually Frank, I do agree with you. My parents were immigrants from Italy, coming over here in the late 50's. They've never once claimed anything from this country, they've worked all their lives, earning a crust, and I'm not ashamed to say, they even cleaned toilets to earn money when they got here. Immigrants today, know they have it easy. Just look at that women in Ealing being paid £170k a year for her and her brood to live her. This country will never be the same again. And who is to blame? The immigrants? No, they're just making hay whilst the sun shines. It's the shambles of the Labour government who are to blame for their open door policy. Great Britain? Daft Britain more like!
- Tony Stunatto, London, UK, 17/10/2008 15:01
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Mr. Cameron and his team have well spoken. And about time too. I'm personally really fed up with Brown. It was all fun when the economy was doing well laughing at Mr. Bean Brown's bungling. OK he let everybody in the country and let people steal and schools and transport got bad. But now he has gone too far with the state messing up the whole British economy. I voted for these guys at the last election (many years ago admittedly!!) but not anymore. Crash Gordon you have to go! We cannot all lose our jobs I have a family to take care of!!
- Georgie, Islington, London, 17/10/2008 14:50
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reply to Jo, London
Frank is not ignorant; I'm afraid you are the badly informed one. I have traced all lines of my family tree back to the 1600s and so far have come across no immigrants....cumbrian and lancastrian through and through. I'm not sure where you got your 'dumbed down' and incorrect information from but it is wrong.
- David H, London, 17/10/2008 14:30
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"Yvette Cooper, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, accused Mr Cameron of "playing juvenile political games."
She and her moron husband "BALLS" try to play the game, but have so far failed miserably.
No fan of Cameron, but truth being told.
Seems strange, all of a sudden, there are much more criticism of the Tories. CAMPBELL up to his old tricks firing comments in a vain apptempt to booster labour support.
- Asw, Hong Kong, 17/10/2008 14:30
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It was Thatcher who deregulated the building societies and turned them into banks.
It was Thatcher who deregulated the utilities, favouring new shareholders with windfalls rather than using the money raised to improve decaying infrastructure and development.
It was Thatcher who squandered the proceeds of North Sea oil and gas, decimating industries and using this money for putting people on the dole with no prospect of work.
It was Thatcher who told the miners, and other communities that she destroyed by her policies, that they should use their redundancy money to 'start businesses' - selling heaven knows what to each other on a scale of diminishing returns.
We are constanty reading of Brown being Darling's "Boss". As Chancellor, Brown had a '"Boss", he was answerable to Tony Blair, the Prime Minister so whatever happened during Brown's Chancellorship emanated from him, like other Ministers during the Blair years Brown did not act independendly or alone, all orders came from the top. So why isn't Blair being castigated during this crisis? He was the Head Honcho yet, once again, has skipped off the world stage. Forget the invisible man, Cameron. Where Blair? What has HE got to say?
- Janet, london north, 17/10/2008 14:22
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Hmm, definitely a Tory leader with a plan of no substance!
- Ann, South Kensington, 17/10/2008 14:14
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Welcome to politics Jonathan. The labour government lived off the tories economic foundations until they actually had to think for themselves. you don't win elections, you lose them.
- Robert, london, 17/10/2008 13:59
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This is to Frank - I'm sure if you looked at your own family tree you'd find you descend from immigrants so your ignorant comments don't wash too well.
- Jo, London, 17/10/2008 13:58
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She didn't only spend the North Sea Oil proceeds on tax cuts, she needed the bulk of it to pay unemployment benefit to the 4 million people her monetarist policies had put out of work. When the numbers kept on rising, she thought up a new wheeze and transferred them to invalidity benefit, which removed them from the unemployment figures. Does David Cameron know anything about the recent history of his party? It wasn't so long ago that he claimed himself to be the 'heir to Blair', so this Johnny-come-lately attack seems somewhat out of place. He wrote the 2005 Tory manifesto, where does it say that the Conservatives were concerned about the debt problems and intended to introduce regulation. Go back and revise the history Mr Cameron.
- Val Daniels, Mijas Costa. Spain, 17/10/2008 13:58
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Reply to Tommy Cockles, Brentford
Get your facts straight Tommy. Brown hasn't followed Tory or Thatcherite policies since 2000. Fact. I can only think you are another propagandist from the labour party spreading lies or you know nothing about politics and just make things up to suit the moment. We have had no economic miracle under labour as it is now clear it was all based on debt and borrowing. It took the tories years to sort out the mess left by labour in 1979; by 1997 they had just about done it (£40million budget surplus), only to see the loony left come back into power and screw it all up again.......only this time they managed to screw the entire world economy up (along with the help of the USA). I don't know, will you sheeple ever learn??
- Tom W, London, 17/10/2008 13:37
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I see labour central office have hijacked this board with their lies. Typical low life, cowardly leftist behaviour.
- David, London, 17/10/2008 13:29
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The comments here just show how badly informed people are. The labour propaganda machine is doing a wonderful job in deceiving and fooling the general populace. Brown has caused this economic crisis along with the USA. He was 1st warned in 2003 by the IMF to slow spending down; since then they have warned him every year. Naturally, the arrogant buffoon chose to ignore this advice and listened to his cronies in the FSA, who quite frankly are not fit for purpose.
Now for the uneducated idiots blaming Thatcher (and I am no fan of hers). The tories would have put interest rates up to slow spending down as they did in the 80s. They would not have let this happen. Brown followed tory economic policies till 2000 and then started using his own rather stupid economic policies. So for the last 8 years the economy has been run according to the philosophies of Brown and NOT Thatcher; so please stop spreading untruths and lies.
Labour are totally useless and every time they are in power manage to screw everything up...big time....at least the tories left labour with a £40 million budget surplus in 1997, which Brown promptly spent.
I imagine the somewhat 'dumbed down' and badly informed anti tory comments being left here are coming from paid up members of Brown's evil propaganda machine. And for all the sheep out there who believe Brown and his lies.....just wait!! Go and google credit default swaps for the next huge diaster...about 2 weeks away!!
- Tom W, London, 17/10/2008 13:27
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To those posters who keep trying to lay the blame of this governments action’s on Thatcher, please get the facts right. Thatcher at no time borrowed money without a plan to pay it back.
The markets are reflecting the failures of this government by devaluing the pound against other currencies, that’s why the petrol price here has not fallen as far as elsewhere in the world.
When someone comes along and provides the combustible material before stetting the house on fire, then because they join in to put the fire out doesn’t make them a hero! That’s exactly what Gordon Brown has done. How did he follow that up this week; he announces he is going to carry on with his government’s uncontrolled borrowing for his pet projects.
It’s not global warming that our children need to worry about; it is the money debt this government is going to leave behind, that will cripple their future.
- Ian, Reading, England, 17/10/2008 13:16
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David Cameron's only 'talent' is hindsight. Even then he doesn't seem to have solutions just that he thinks he would do it better.
- Richard, LONDON, 17/10/2008 13:16
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You go for him. Brown has led us into the biggest bust in British history. He is a disgrace to Britain. It was obvious that the government had an unsound money policy. There was too much "bad" money in the system and now it is being destroyed. Brown was the CFO and he allowed this bubble to inflate. He is a bubble addict who turned many Brits into debt junkies. He did this so New Labour would win votes. He is aa corrupt as the bankers. Bottom line = GREED.
- Get Shorty, Bognor, 17/10/2008 13:16
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I thought Dave was away on holiday as he doesn't seem to have added any thing to the road recovery for the UK and he seems to forget that Margaret Thatcher removed all the restriction that were in place our to stop situations like this occuring.
- Mike Melbourne, Bedford, 17/10/2008 13:09
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Brown made the bust far worse. His change of RPI to CPI took out housing from inflation measures. So inflation seemed very low. It was a Brown con. So interest rates were too low. As housing boomed, Brown patheticly boasted he had ended Boom and Bust. He conned people into thinking risk had gone, so they took huge loans.
The extra boom was Brown's. So is the extra Bust.
Brown created huge problems by 1) removing proper bank regulation, 2) removing safety nets of public reserves of gold, and stealing £5bn a year from private pensions.
His deceptions continue from his 10 pence tax rate con, through to the bank bail out con, that he claims is his, but was in fact devised by Standard Chartered.
Brown is probably the worst chancellor/PM for 100 years, creating a huge bubble economy endebting millions, and certain to crash. While his endless deceptions by always blaming people decades ago, and taking false praise where it is not deserved. Especially nasty is Brown sending our boys and girls into 2 wars; while he cut Defence funds by 50%. Then claiming reflected glory as he refuses funds for proper equipment and tries to gag Coroners from reporting the truth.
- Jimmy, glasgow, 17/10/2008 12:58
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Raymond, the answer to whose fault Britain had no manufacturing industry is simple. The Trade Unions.
Thatcher cleaned up after them and for most of the next 20 years Britian has enjoyed almost continual prosperity, as did most of the western world.
But if people abuse the system then it will break down. Offering mortgages to people who had no chance of paying for them and then selling financial instruments to the big banks had to eventually fail. What goes up, must come down - eventually.
Do we want a return to the failures of nationalised society, or do we just need to fix a system that worked very well for a very long time, and which spread wealth like never before?
That is the challenge for both parties in the next few months to work out. Brown has been too cocky and full of himself these last few days. It's right that Cameron reminds everyone that Brown was himself praising this system which he now says was flawed. The PM has always been a hypocrital man, and he should not be allowed to just get away with it. Stealing our pensions and selling our Gold reserves so cheaply should be part of his epitaph, not just coming up with a plan others seem to like, especially when their reputations for financial responsibility are also flawed.
- Stephen Rothbart, Prague, Czech Republic, 17/10/2008 12:58
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Dave - give me solid solutions and ideas and cojones of steel and then we might elect you - in the meantime - out of the news matey.
Its all a bit fiddling while Rome burns - give me Vince Cable any day.
- Jc, se1, 17/10/2008 12:49
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There seem to be a lot of people who were brought up during the Labour years since they are somewhat lacking in understanding history (some might say ignorant and stupid).
After 25 years of putting up with the likes of Red Robbo, Scargill et al, our "Industry" was on its last legs due to communist Trade Union leaders and a work force with mush for brains.
The Dockers, Car industry and Mines, all crucified by the demands of Labour and the Trade Unions. Also the start of dumbing down the education system, examples of which seem to be posting here.
All you intellectually (intellectual maybe the wrong word to use for this dim lot) challenged lefties seem unable to change the record, probably don't know how to!
After 11 years of utter corruption, incompetence, maybe incontinence, inefficiency under two remarkably shallow conmen who, at least, knew their constituency was made mostly of birdbrains, like you lot, you still whine about Thatcher.
Boo-Hoo,try not to type and mouth the words at the same time.
- Minnie Ovens, USA, 17/10/2008 12:42
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Cameron is at risk of coming out this looking very stupid...dependancy on Financial Servies in the UK economy is not healthy, but sorry I cannot remember him saying that manufacturing should have been subsidised or we should put up trade barriers...
he is trying to be populist - criticise bankers etc but it just looks so empty and opportunist.
blaming the current situation on Brown is just a little weak, granted there have been many mistakes, personal debt and Govt levels got out control, there was a housing bubble - but at not time did Cameron push for policies to supress this. In fact he looked to make political capital out of the boom, The 1997 Inheritance Tax proposal was aimed at ensuring that children could best benefit from the capital gains on their parents property. Cameron is in danger of blowing his poll lead, he is starting to look weak on the economy and this could potentially result in the continuation of New Labour in power....
- Martin_Clerkenwell, london, 17/10/2008 12:34
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At last. The Tories are now bringing back into focus the damage done by New Labour and specifically by Gordon Brown, and revealing his absurd posturings on the world stage for what they are: the panic of an old socialist who realises his policies have wrecked the economy.
Those of us who have lived through the 60s and the 70s have seen it all before. The only difference this time is that Brown has achieved the wet-dream of socialists everywhere: he has brought the banking sector under state control and is within a whisker of pulling the same trick with all the other banks of the civilised world.
- Ken, Bexleyheath, 17/10/2008 12:21
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All this bs about the economy is just that - bs. All that really matters is what's he going to do about reversing immigration. Sort that out and all the other problems will dissapear.
- Frank, England., 17/10/2008 12:03
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Hang on a minute, the tory leader decrying an economy run on thatherite policies?? Would he seriosuly have brought in more regulation or smothered the housing boom with a capital gains tax on property? Unfortunately Cameron will win the election on default as the global economy slumps, not because he in any way can offer a better solution
- Jonathan, London, 17/10/2008 11:43
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Oh that's right - because Britain is the only country in the world facing economic problems, isn't it? David Cameron is obviously as ignorant of world affairs as Sarah Palin...
- Charlie, Soho, 17/10/2008 11:31
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If David Cameron wants to be PM then he should state what he would do in this situation, we want details not more sound bites from him. The current problems are not of the Governments making, we have already seen nearly every other country having the same problems. One thing we know for sure is that Cameron would run a mile if he were in this situation.
- John, London, UK, 17/10/2008 11:26
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Amazing - had this government previously sought to impose tigher regulations on the banking industry Bandwagon Dave and the Tory press would have lambasted Gordon Brown for turning the UK into a "nanny state" by imposing rules which would adversely affect the competitiveness of the UK financial industry.
This is the same Bandwagon Dave who said a month ago we should admire and not critisize the risk taking bonus culture in the City and then did his usual u-turn when the political wind changed.
Is David Cameron really fit to run this country - I think not.
- Andy, london, 17/10/2008 11:23
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It's about time we had some comments from the 'opposition'. Some opposition! George Osborne is conspicuous by his absence and the only credible person in the whole of Parliament is RH Vincent Cable of the Libdems.
The problem with the financial crisis is that the politicians we elect do not really understand economics, Gordon Brown and Alistair darling included. Vince Cable has been the only MP with any grasp of this subject but any warnings he has sounded have been ridiculed by our elected political nitwits.
Unfortunately the blame must rest with the ill-informed big brother watching, celebrity obsessed british public, who have complicitly gone along with the debt fuelled ride and who re-elected Labour at the last election.
There really is no hope for this country now. We have been saddled with so much National Debt by Labour without complaint from the public whilst we watched our house prices go up in value and used them as cash machines to go on a debt fuelled binge. Labour trumpeted their 'lightly regulated' City of London as the world's financial miracle economy and gave the bankers carte blanche to create and engineer such complex financial instruments such as CDO's, CDS's CDS squared, MBS's etc etc.
Warnings from Vince Cable went unheeded, indeed, warnings from the IMF and the EU central Bank went unheeded as Brown wallowed in his profligate pig sty. Now it's time to pay the piper, but it's you and I, our children and their children who will bear the cost.
- Chris Simmonds, Herne Bay, Kent, UK, 17/10/2008 11:21
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It's a direct measure of Mrs Balls' intellectual ability that she has not been able to respond to the charges laid by Cameron, she has merely indulged in the name-calling routine. It's time for people like the lovely Yvette to understand that the game is up. She and her colleagues need to put up or shut up.
The fact that the economic outlook is so appalling should be enough, but no, she wants to play politics. Camron has made serious charges which apparently are unanswerable. Over to you, Mrs Balls. Tell us exactly what you are going to do to ensure our future. In short, stop blaming everyone but Gordon for this mess which arose very largely as a direct result of his profligacy and hubris.
- Chuck Unsworth, London, 17/10/2008 11:12
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David Camoron and George Osborne are showing either their ignorance or their contempt for the truth. No Tory politician has been criticising the New Labour continuation of Thatcherite policies for the past ten years. Indeed it was the eminent Economist Professor J.K.Gailbraith who pointed out to Margaret Thatcher that her neglect of Manufacturing in the UK and preference for the City of London would lead to danger for the UK economy. The top rate of tax was also 60 percent when he gave this advice. Thatcher used the proceeds of North Sea Oil for Tax cuts rather than rebuilding the UK's infrastructure or helping manufacturing. Now we get two novice economists saying that a change is needed but refusing to recognize that the architect of the problem was Margaret Thatcher who made a far more inane claim than Boom and Bust were ending when she boasted about Thatcher's Economic Miracle which lasted three years. Please Tory boys go back and learn some history.
- Tommy Cockles, Brentford, 17/10/2008 11:05
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Spot on! Mr. Cameron is right. One of the benefits of an economy based on real world products is that it encourages the young to cease the meaningless obsession with celebrity and vanity and instead take an interest in science and the world about us. And that will reduce crime and alcoholism too because interests in matters less shallow make life more fun and less reliant on superficial stimulants.
- Vision Aforethought, Oxford, England, 17/10/2008 10:35
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Oh! its wattsissnam I thought he was dead.
- David, london uk, 17/10/2008 10:32
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What a short memory you have Mr Cameron,you bemoaned the fact that Britain has no manufacturing industry,next time you meet Lady Thatcher ask her who was responsible for it's demise.
- Raymond, Stoke on Trent, 17/10/2008 10:15
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