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Mandelson blamed for stubbing out new anti-smoking laws
Joe Murphy, Political Editor28.11.08
PETER Mandelson is being accused by anti-smoking campaigners of blocking new laws to curb cigarette sales.
It follows private talks yesterday between the Business Secretary's aides and the anti-tobacco campaign group Action on Smoking and Health, the Evening Standard has learned.
At stake are two proposals to discourage cigarette sales, which retailers say would be damaging to small shops.
One is to ban big displays of cigarettes, forcing smoking materials to be kept under the counter. The other is to ban tobacco vending machines.
Both have reached advance stages of Whitehall planning, including formal consultations, and had passed through various committees.
Until yesterday, Ash campaigners were convinced they had strong support for the measures being included in an NHS Bill in next week's Queen's Speech.
Ash believed it had backing at the Department of Health and that the department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform was not standing in the way.
However, since Lord Mandelson's recall to the Cabinet, they say the "atmospherics have changed". One of the peer's first recruits to BERR was former No10 policy aide Geoffrey Norris, a passionate deregulator, who met Ash for talks.
Ash director Deborah Arnott said: "The proposed legislation has attracted huge public support. Now, however, it appears that BERR is trying to block it. It is as if Peter Mandelson is putting a block on health policy."
Ash says retailers have warned Lord Mandelson's officials that they would suffer if the measures go through.
An official close to the peer denied he had blocked the measures. He said the Cabinet minister had not yet become involved in the proposals.
Reader views (36)
Here's a sample of the latest views published.
New proposals regarding point of sale are a vital part of reducing smoking in this country and therefore should not be watered down or tampered with. Mr Mandelson should be ashamed and stop interfering!
- Simon Ayre, Sunderland
These measures are not about preventing smokers from purchasing cigarettes, nor are they about preventing newsagents from selling tobacco. But this legislation is absolutely crucial to protect children and young people from the harmful effects of tobacco. How can anybody argue against protecting children from a substance that is proven to kill?
Wake up all you smokers out there, think back to when you first started to smoke - how old were you and where did you buy your first pack of cigarettes? My guess is you would have been somewhere in mid-teens and you would have bought cigarettes from your local newsagent. So do you really want to see history repeating itself in your children or grandchildren?
So let's make smoking history for all our children by introducing legislation now to protect them from the harmful effects of tobacco.
- Angela, Newcastle, England
I am 16 years old and already have friends who smoke because of the blatant marketing done by tobacco companies. They have all ended up buying cigarettes because they are so in your face everytime you go into a shop, even when they've told me they're going to give up. I know that of all my friends who don't give up smoking, half will die because of their habit. That's a lot of funerals. Meanwhile the tobacco companies and their shareholders pile up the profits. Do newsagents really want to sell death so blatantly? Please get rid of cigarettes from every shop, then my friends won't be tempted anymore. Robyn.
- Robyn, Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne
I'm a smoker and obviously disagree with this. But there is a more serious issue that the anti-smoking lobby can not ( or will not ) see. And that is, how are you going to stop the kids that get their cigarettes from illegal suppliers. Ever thought about that ASH? No of course they haven't because they only regard the statistics the government gives them. They can't regard the smuggling trade, which is HUGE and does not have a policy of stopping underrage sales. Every time you tell teenagers NOT to do something, they will do it even more, that's part of being young and reckless. People like ASH are pusing the youth further away from their "protection" and that is worse than allowing them to make their own mistakes. If you want to dictate to people on how they should live their lives please go back to Nazi Germany.
- Carl, Cumbria
Banning cigarettes being displayed and vending machines is just another silly idea thought up by the NHS and ASH to harass smokers, it ain't going to do anything to stop people smoking. I do not see heroin, smack, speed or any other drug advertised or sold in vending machines but look how many addicts are out there. Cigarettes is legal for adults to use, so it should be treated the same way as all other legal adult substances, it should be left to the adult to choose to have it or not. what next, ban alcohol, sweets and chocolate from being displayed? all these things is also ment to be bad for you in some way.
- Cliff, london
Well done Peter Mandelson, at last a politician with some courage to stand up to the smug anti-smokers bullies. I am so sick and tired of being pushed about by these highly paid self proclaimed "experts" who think it their right to push us around - a word to Deborah Arnott - you don't have a right to bully people! Leave us alone to live our lives. Perhaps Lord Mandelson will take the next step and withdraw public funding for ASH and the UK Centre for Tobacco Control Studies, and redistribute the money back into the NHS, where it is needed, rather than lining the pockets of health quango bullies - now that would be refreshing. I am soooooo sick and tired of these quango bullies and health Stasi.
- Joe, London
Strange how Brits constantly complain of overbearing "police state" policies by local and national government yet think it's OK to legislate against something just because a "majority" don't like it and believe it is antisocial; i.e. smoking. If something is legal (i.e. beer and pubs, talking football, belching and farting, and many other things considered objectionable by a lot of people, why not ban those too? Do-gooders should live and let live, and let others do so or die as they wish, so be it.
- E.Cowham, Melbourne, Australia
This sounds like more dirty tricks by ASH. If readers will remember, they used the same emotive trickery on MP's by sending letters to each one implying they would be responsible for peoples deaths if they didn't vote for a total ban.
Lord Mandelson, is always under the spot light and what better way of getting him to approve the measures than by publicly suggesting he is to veto them.
The simple truth is as yesterdays Politics show revealed, the smoking ban has killed thousands of pubs, and not saved one life. The proposed measures would kill off more pubs and severely damage small shops already up against it.
- Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon, England
How predictable all the ASH lot are. Think of the children they always bleat. Yawn. Personally seeing ugly fat people damages my mental health so why not campaign for them to be hidden away?
- Lewis, London
Tim C, you are wrong about the experience overseas. Removing tobacco displays has been successfully implemented in several Canadian provinces, Thailand, and in Iceland who did this in 2001. The experience of these other areas suggests that this policy can contribute to reducing smoking amongst young people and does not, despite what many claim, result in dire consequences for businesses. So we have good evidence from public opinion, research with smokers and other countries about both the feasibility and the benefits of removing tobacco displays.
- Linda Bauld, Bath
Smoking in pubs should never have been banned, if people were worried about gettng cancer thay should have stayed out of pubs.
Why should smokers be blamed if you get cancer, and blame us?
- P Staker, London
The ability of entrepreneurs to make a profit is an important part of the perceived 'health' of the local community but that must never come before the 'actual' health of this or the next generation. These measures are just some of the many suggestions put forward by smokers to help them to quit. Those smokers are the ones who find it hard to walk in and out of a shop without submitting to the 'power-wall' displays facing them behind the counter every time they have their wallet or purse open and their nicotine receptors firing away like crazy. The ones who ask their shop not to sell them the cigarettes or tobacco but who still find a packet in their pocket, on the way out of the door. To the entrepreneur I would ask them to think of the extra liquid income available to every smoker that quits, the average is about £1800 a year. Most smokers that quit do not squirrel their average £165 a month under the mattress, nor do they invest in stocks and bonds but instead they look to spend it and just need enticement to do so. A local store rarely outsells the big supermarket on price - they beat them on convenience and the human animal is often a lethargic or even, a plain old lazy one and so it is likely to remain. So retailers need to entice them to keep their trade and feed that desire for locality over their gargantuan competitors. It may help to stop and remember that the average smoker is also a customer lost to premature death some 20 years early, 20 years less trade
- Darcy Brown, Darlington
No matter which side of the fence you are on I am sure we can all agree that smoking is an addiction. So when existing smokers go into a shop to buy cigarettes they don't really need a well lit, colourful display to help them choose which packet to buy - so a ban would not be a problem for them. The real effect of a ban on display would be to discourage young people from starting to smoke. This is something that even the tobacco industry claims it supports. So, what is left? Are people really suggesting that in a recession we should get our kids to start smoking to help with the economy? While we are at it perhaps we could find some chimneys that need cleaning.
- Paul Hooper, Birmingham
Simon. I agree 'that most people are boycotting pubs'. Most regulars were smokers. Some people prefer to go to a pub to socialise rather than drink alone indoors, although many smokers are now having house parties instead.
- Chas, Little Britain
The Government has achieved a great deal in the last ten years but should be confident and take decisive action to save thousands of lives and protect our children from tobacco advertising at the point of sale.
Lord Mandelson must support the measures- the public want it, over 10,000 of them signed postcards here in the NE in August to support this- from all walks of lives, many of them smokers.
And more than 10,000 elsewehre opposed the measure.
I am so sick of the anti-smoking extremists forever wanting more and more draconian restrictions. I am also sick to death of the mantra 'save lives & protect the children'. Stop using children for propaganda purposes it's tantamount to child abuse. Stop it.
Lord Mandleson, is right to have used comon sense, but ASH won't be pleased, the last time that someone dared to cross them, The Telegraph, they were threatened with legal action, they dared to publish the original WHO report in 2006, which categorically stated, that after a 7 YEAR study, in 7 countries, SHS was not harmful to others. It would be nice if Lord Mandleson, looked into the antics of ASH and their cohorts, especially where ASH are funded by Big Pharma and have shares in Glaxo-Kline-Smith. Conflict of interest I believe.
Mr Mandleson, should also look into how the health extremists have influenced MEPs who have voted to lower legal allowances of alcohol & tobacco from the EU for the British people only.
- Lucy, England
The fact is, nowhere has the scheme of placing tobacco under the counter been piloted with any success. In fact, no other nations government, to my knowledge, has been stupid enough to try it, due to the fact it obviously won't work. They tried it in a region of Canada, and smoking in young people increased. As for banning vending machines - again, there is little evidence to suggest that this would reduce smoking rates, as the Dept of Health admitted in its own consultation document on 'the future of tobacco control'.
Another mooted change was, of course, the banning of 10-packs. Yet this led to an increase in the number of cigarettes consumed in Ireland. I'm hearing less and less about this one, so I'm presuming it's been quietly dropped.
- Tim C, Lancs, England
Finally some common sense from the government, I look forward to the smoking ban being amended to allow separate smoking rooms and claw back some of the 3,000 pubs that have been bankrupted since the ban.
To John Britton, this measure is not about public health as sales are unaffected, it is about bullying and marginalising smokers to be the new social prariahs.
- Dave Atherton, London, Luke Warm Britain
Wow, I never expected Mandelson's reappointment to be a good thing. Appears I was wrong. Finally, someone has taken a stand against the anti-smoker juggernaught and their propoganda.
This isn't about protecting children, it never was, but was merely another link the the chain of denormalising 25% of the population. Something that should never happen in a democratic and liberal society.
And before anyone says it's about denormalising SMOKING, not smokers - you can't demonise an activity without doing the same to the people who do it.
- Rts, worcester
I don't get it - we put ethics before profits on many issues such as clothing companies using cheap labour in India but I cannot believe that Mandelson will put profits of this dreadful industry before health. Ever wondered why cigarettes are displayed by the sweet counter? I guess our health and our childrens future are not as important as the next general election.
- George Wood, Warwick
It is true that the health lobby are strongly behind these proposals. As they should be. This is a measure that will save lives as has the ban on smoking in public places and the advertising ban.
It is not just the health lobby either. Many welfare organisations are signed up to this; children's charities, mental health charities as well as environmental health officers and people working in social care. In fact nearly anyone that is concerned about the welfare of the nation thinks this measure would be a good idea.
Peter Mandelson obviously has to fight the corner of business but this is a question of proportionality. Retailers are to be asked to adjust their shop a little and the outcome will be less exposure to tobacco marketing and denormalisation of product, something that will prevent young people from trying and taking up smoking and will support those trying to quit.
It is a difficult time for small businesses but this is not an unreasonable ask and will not put them out of business. It will save lives and that is a fact that no one should lose sight of.
- Hazel, England
Chas - just last night I bought 15 cans of Fosters for £9. We are in the middle of a recession why would I go and pay £3 to £4 for a pint or the same price for a soft drink? Pubs are much more pleasant now but unfortunately the ridiculous prices means that most people are boycotting pubs.
- Simon, London
Tobacco is a lethal product that gets people addicted and then kills them. Why is the tobacco industry allowed to advertise these products to encourage our younger generation to smoke. 83% of smokers when questionned wished they had never started. Removing tobacco displays from shops and removing vending machines will save suffering and lives. Must profit always come before peoples health.
- Dianne Woodall, County Durham
Shops of all sizes would suffer, in terms of cost and inconvenience. Small shops will suffer disproportionately. The policy does not intend to hurt shops (any more than the smoking ban was intended to harm pubs ...ho!). But all these laws have had 'unforeseen' consequences, and ASH might be surprised to learn that in the current climate people have lost their appetite for 'health at any cost'.
Apart from anything else, of course, banning displays will not stop people smoking. If it breaks the association between tobacco and legitimate trade, government will be the obvious loser.
- Belinda, Edinburgh
We have come so far with the tobacco issue over the last 10 years but Government must remain strong and confident in its resolve to save our children from the dangers of point of sale advertising and the acceptability of vending machines.
It has been proved that the vast majority of the public want this. In the North East alone 10,000 postcards made the feelings clear of local people - even smokers offered support.
We have 10,000 smoking children in the North East. This is about protecting children's health- now and for future generations.
Lord Mandelson must support the measures
- Carole Johnson, Hartlepool - England
Now let's see. I know, we can put all alcohol under the counter as well because that causes liver cancer. All fatty foods under the counter because being obese causes premature death. Would it make any diffence to the overweight or drinkers, of course not, so what makes them think it'll make a different to smokers.
- Sally, Orpington, Kent
Smoking is a terrible addiction which has directly killed friends and family of mine. At no point should the governement be encouraging or making it easier for any businesses to profit out of a drug which gets people hooked as kids and will ultimately kill them. It's completely unnecessary and if Mandelson blocks this it will only demonstrate just how out of touch this government is with the public.
- Den, London
So the health of our nation and children should suffer? While the small shops and newsagents continue to profit out of this and get new kids addicted to smoking its the tax payers and government who will suffer when the time comes to treat them for lung diseases, cancers and other numerous illnesses which smoking causes.
- Simon, London
If this is true then Hallelujah for some common sense at last!
If Deborah Arnott's idea of 'huge public support' is anything like our local council's then that means absolutely diddly squat!
The disproportionate amount of damage this vindictive ban has caused is unacceptable. Vehicle fumes do far more damage, as has been proven by scientists in the US, and can affect people indoors as well with open windows and doors opening and closing. There is no such thing as 'clean air' inside or out, if you are near traffic and the sooner this smoke screen of SHS is seen for exactly what it is, a pack of lies to justify the existence and huge salaries of the likes of Deborah Arnott, the better.
I have no problem with venues choosing whether to be smoking or non smoking, that way there is choice for all, including workers who should be able to choose whether to work in a smoking or non smoking environment. It surely is not rocket science to make this a fair, just and adult way of behaving, instead of people huddling around doorways outside pubs and restaurants who have no other facilities to offer.
I no longer go out as I cannot relax and since this ban was announced have suffered depression that was previously manageable, but is no longer. I am now on long term medication and needing other NHS resources, that are scarce enough in the realms of Mental Health, thus costing the NHS far more than I ever did before! I can't be the only one!
- Lyn, West Midlands, UK
So Mandy aint so bad after all. Perhaps he the new health religion for what it is - money grabbing bunkum and bullying nonsense.
- Marley, manchester
Prohibiting display of tobacco products, and sale from vending machines, are measures with near universal support among health professionals and strong support from independent organisations such as the Royal College of Physicians. Most smokers want to quit smoking, and most regret ever starting to smoke, so reducing the visual promotion of tobacco products and their availability to children and young people through vending machines are measures that will help to prevent the uptake and continuation of tobacco use. The proposed changes will not prevent smokers who want to purchase cigarettes from doing so, and with 10 million regular smokers in the UK,most of them strongly addicted to smoking, retailers' incomes from cigarette sales are hardly likely to disappear overnight. These are important measures to protect, especially, the future health of today's children and young people, and should take full priority over the short-term financial interests of traders and the tobacco industry.
John Britton
Director, UK Centre for Tobacco Control Studies
- John Britton, Nottingham UK
Good for Lord Mandelson and BERR dept it’s about time someone stood up for small businesses. These proposals are ridiculous and not very well thought out. At last maybe there is an element of common sense coming from the government. Retailer would support positive legalisation, that is sensible, practicable, well rounded, workable legalisation without impacting on business. This then would be embraced all the retail sector. The problem is that ASH don't care about small businesses and they would be happy for shops to go under because of this, whereas Lord Mandelson and BERR obviously recognises the important role we play in both business and our communities. These proposals were daft, but with the economic problems we all have it's gone beyond a joke now and is a serious threat to small businesses as it would cost us thousands, we'd lose customers to supermarkets. nothing to say about how many shops would close and the job losses that would be involved. Maybe ASH have not realised there is a recession? Everyone knows that hiding tobacco away won’t stop people smoking BUT if all the stake holder can get around the table and have a say in how we move forward then will make the difference.
A newsgaent from a seaside town in Kent
- Hitesh Pandya, Ramsgate
This decision would be totally unacceptable. This is about protecting children's health- now and for future generations.
We must do all we can to address tobacco- it will kill half of all smokers- and here in the North East 10,000 children are smoking.
The Government has achieved a great deal in the last ten years but should be confident and take decisive action to save thousands of lives and protect our children from tobacco advertising at the point of sale.
Lord Mandelson must support the measures- the public want it, over 10,000 of them signed postcards here in the NE in August to support this- from all walks of lives, many of them smokers.
- Ailsa Rutter, tynemouth, england
Well done Lord Mandelson...since Peter Mandelson has been back in Government he has been successful in making a difference in many areas. It seems he is not prepared to simply accept everything that 'too big for its boots' ASH has to say.
Thanks Peter.
- Chris F J Cyrnik, Notts, England
Mandelson is on the wrong side of this. It is not about hurting shops its about health.
This legislation could not be more important. Smoking kills thousands of people every year, anything the government can do to make it less likely that people will take up this dreadful habit they should do and they should do it now.
Why should the tobacco industry have the 'right' to advertise their lethal product in every shop in the country? How many times a year does a kid come into a shop to buy sweets or magazines? Hundreds? Thousands?
There might be a little short term pain for retailers but does that really compare to the fact that this would save lives?
- Sarah Andrews, London
I don't know anyone who supports these new proposals (other than the health lobbies of course). Everyone else I speak to thinks they're absurd and will kill off even more of our businesses.
Let's face it, other countries that have already done this have not seen any benefit either. Instead of listening to interested lobby groups, it may be better to look at the damaging consequences of these proposed actions where they are already in place, just like the blanket smoking ban. This has caused catastrophe, and lets face it, smoking rates are on the up again. It failed in its intention and many businesses have failed with it. Oh, and it cost a considerable amount of money to put in place! Huge costs, no benefits. Not a bright idea in my book.
- Helen, Lancs
ASH have been responsible for the massive unemployment in the pub and club industry and they now want to see further unemployment in the retail industry. They must be stopped from causing all this unemplyment, especially in a time of recession.
- Chas, Little Britain
