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Bankers: We'll sue for our bonuses
Danny Brierley10 Feb 2009
A group of senior London bankers today warned they would sue if they are denied million-pound bonuses
The bankers, all at managing director level and some with more than £1million bonuses, have taken on a leading lawyer to prepare for legal action if an attempt to clamp down on payouts is made.
Ronnie Fox, who specialises in employment law, has been contacted by managing directors who fear they could be denied their bonuses despite their departments making money.
Mr Fox, of Fox lawyers in Cornhill, is preparing to launch a legal battle against the unnamed banking giants if the Government presses ahead with plans to impose a blanket ban on bonuses.
Legal experts today warned that plans to stop bonuses may be a breach of bankers' human rights.
The warning came hours after a Downing Street spokesman said the Prime Minister wants employees at banks which have received state handouts to waive their bonuses.
Mr Fox, a member of the Law Society's remuneration committee, is representing "a small number" of senior clients but said this could expand if the Government gets tough on payouts.
They include one senior executive who devised a strategy for turning losing positions into profits but was made redundant after his department suffered big losses. Mr Fox told the Evening Standard: "Although it is a small amount now, if the Government decides to act over bonuses, that group of disgruntled bankers could become a lot larger.
"In each case they have said to me that there are several other people in the same position.
"I'm representing some people who are very concerned. What they have to see is what the banks actually do and what the Government makes them do.
"At the moment the Government is telling the banks to look very carefully at the bonuses paid to people where the banks have received state aid.
"Where they have done well or their business unit has done well it's wrong that they should suffer. These are people who would expect six to seven-figure bonus payouts."
He said there is a shortage of jobs in the sector and some bankers are "quite angry" at the prospect of losing bonuses.
Mr Fox added: "The Government over-simplifies things and says 'all bankers are bad, none of them are entitled to bonuses, they got us into this mess'.
"They're doing it to focus attention away from the Government's role."
Many bank workers are legally entitled to bonuses under the terms of their employment contract. A spokesman for Gordon Brown said: "The Prime Minister's view is that, for those people in potential receipt of substantial payments to which they are legally entitled, they may want to ask themselves some quite searching questions about whether or not they should in fact receive them."
Reader views (29)
It becomes clear to me that the cause of the disraceful anomoly of failed institutions in receipt of tax payers money, yet paying huge bonus's, is the receipt of bail out money. Without bail out money they would be bankrupt and therefore there would be no bonus payments.
Further, why do bankers believe that they have a right to earn a percentage of the profit they make for their bank? As an engineer, like most people, I am paid a salary, that salary is fixed no matter what profit my company returns.
- Paul Riordan, Antwerp, Belgium, 08/03/2009 11:31
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Well the story served it's purpose in making us all laugh!
I do hope they are not entitled to "Legal Aid" for their oncoming court battles, again at the expense of those fortunate enough still to have a job due to the "financial havoc."
Also, if the bankers in question are of "bailed out banks" which are now part owned by tax payers, is their a laywer out there ready to help us counter sue?
With falling markets this year, profits falling for all companies drastically, if these bankers take one penny in bounus, then the banks can not then receive any bail out in the future. However, doesn't this then leave the Country in an even worse position if these institutions fail? Does the bankers not care or give any consideration for others?
Oh well, what goes round come back round and the bankers one day will learn this. Money has never bought love, health or happiness. Remember this lawyers as well.
- Theresa, London, 10/02/2009 22:16
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Bring it on! But make sure the defence team is forensically qualified in the arcane salami-sliced structured vehicles so glibly sold by bankers to each other and which toxically infected the system. Then turn the trial into a Nuremberg Crimes against the Economy hearing. Call all those questioned today by the House Committee and more. Let them repeat what they told MPs under privilege. Good cross-examination should unpick any unethical behaviour and if they incriminate themselves let them face the consequences.
- Ken, France, 10/02/2009 16:29
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Godfrey,
you seem to have missed one small detail, they didn't go bankrupt and therefore the contracts they signed are still valid.
what would have happened, is only relevant if it did happen. as it did not... well you know the rest.
- Scott, London, 10/02/2009 16:12
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It is completely irrelevant if the banker's "department or section" has made money. If the government had not stepped in with taxpayers money they would not have received anything - their employer would have been bankrupt - so it is logical that the terms for "saving" the bank must include new contractual arrangements that eliminate past bonuses
- Godfrey, london, 10/02/2009 15:30
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Pay them with toxic debts!
- R King, UK, 10/02/2009 15:25
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These employees have flaunted their wealth for some time now and the more principled amongst them have been saying that the city had been turned into an avarice and immoral place to work in so there is no reason to believe that they will change now, it doesn't really matter to some where the bonuses come from as long as it reaches them.
- Eg Essex, essex, 10/02/2009 14:50
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The barbarism of some of the comments is frightening. Such vitriolic advocations is bordering on insighting hatred! Let me add some cold hard facts to the debate. Bankers and banks are not solely to blaim. The causes of the downturn are principally a binge on debt by those unable to repay. To some degree the majority of the population has been enjoying the fruit of cheap credit, not forced on them by greedy banks, but facilitated by low interest rates and stable inflation. Could the banks have been subject to more stringent capital regualtions? yes. Could they have been more diligent with risk metrics? definitely. Should the government have tightened the purse strings during 64 quarters of positive economic growth to smooth the cycle during more lean times? no doubt. Should individuals and households been more prudent with their borrowings? yes. Should businesses have run greater stress testing of margins during consumer retrenchment? in some cases.
Banking is critical to this economy and has been an outsized revenue producer for many years. We need to recapitalise banks, run low interest rates to allow debt to be serviced and become better at living within our means.
- Andy, London, 10/02/2009 14:31
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Fine; I'll sue for the loss of my business, home and job.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 10/02/2009 14:31
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nobody owes these failures a living.great statements by such pillars of society has trashed their reputation and their bad work has caused me great anxiety each time i think about the safety of my savings!
- Joe Martins, london, 10/02/2009 14:14
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Let them sue - they are lucky that they have not yet been prosecuted thamselves.
I think that if they did bring a case to court, it would be stormed by angry people - maybe this needs to happen to bring it home to them how out of line they really are.
- Mark Burton, St. Ives Cambs, 10/02/2009 14:13
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If the banks are making profits, they should just pass some of these profits to the customers in a form of extra interest (say 1% more). This way, they can have a lower profit and a lower amount of bonus calculated on profits only. Everyone will be happy this way!
- Anonymous, London, 10/02/2009 14:03
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These so-called senior bankers really have cheeks. In fact, they are the ones who should be sued by the many thousands of families whose lives have been put into misery. They are just incompetent. Not only should they not receive any bonus, their salaries have to be reduced too.
- R. Lam, Eastbourne, UK, 10/02/2009 14:02
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Yes agreed if greedy shakers and breakers did the damage then no bonus for them indeed! But what about all the much lower paid staff who facilitate the front office, namely the back office who often work very long hours for a pittance of the salary of your "focus target group". If these people have excelled in their application to the task they should be rewarded as they are entitled to be in accordance with their employment contracts.
- Wallytrader, London, 10/02/2009 13:58
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They are fortunate to have kept their jobs and their existing posessions.
- Mike, Berkshire, 10/02/2009 13:44
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How deluded can these bankers be. Bring their country to its knees, with the help of the government allowing them to get away with it for so long. My partner is now redundant (motor trade) and we are struggling to pay the mortgage etc.
- Jw, London, 10/02/2009 13:43
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What planet are these FAILED people on.
- Dee Jay, Fleet Hampshire, 10/02/2009 13:28
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Bankers have no human rights.... let them sue and the wrath of the nation will be upon them! Such arrogance beggars belief.
- Sharon, London, 10/02/2009 13:18
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let them sue, then, when they turn up in court, we storm the court, drag them outside and hang them from a lampost!
if their greedy lawyers and barristers intervene, string them up too. It's not murder, it's rubbish disposal.
- Kerry, Purley, 10/02/2009 12:55
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The convention on human rights states that 'No one shall be deprived of his possessions, or subjected to degrading or inhuman treatment'. But that is precisely what ordinary people have to put up with after the excesses of the bankers and the devastation of our economy.
- Cockney Rebel, Plaistow, 10/02/2009 12:47
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if someone is contractually entitled to something then they get it. end of story.
- Scott, London, 10/02/2009 12:19
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Let them sue. I think that there is a very good case for dismissing them for incompetence.
- Roger Slade, Winchester, Hampshire, England, 10/02/2009 11:57
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if your bank makes a profit fine. If you bank is bankrupt swivel!
- Fly, london, 10/02/2009 11:56
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One the basic principles when seeking compensation in a court is the right of the defendent to counter claim - bring it on!
- Mark, Bournemouth, England, 10/02/2009 11:18
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Mr Fox, why do you use the word "bonus" to describe remunerations which you claim your clients are contractually entitled to? If the remuneration is linked to performance targets, what meaning do these targets have if they pay out in scenarios of cataclysmic loss for the shareholders and customers of the business?
- Bloke, London, 10/02/2009 11:13
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"Where they have done well or their business unit has done well it's wrong that they should suffer. These are people who would expect six to seven-figure bonus payouts."
'Suffer' is being made redundant with a payoff in three or four figures. Have these people no shame?
I'm sure that lots of the underlings who have been 'let go' were people who did a good job but are paying the price of managerial incompetence regardless. No mega bonuses for them.
- Tonyb, Melbourne, Australia, 10/02/2009 11:08
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The Government should actually ask themselves some searching questions , to whether they deserve to stay in power . I myself believe they should step down rather than to continue to bring the UK down or maybe we should carry on with PM BROWN and he could buy back our gold reserves for a superb discount of $897.50 , what a complete idiot
- Adam, london, 10/02/2009 10:57
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So the more things change the more they stay the same hey. Shows they are are only interested in money.As for it being a breach of their human rights - don't make me laugh!
- David B, Manchester, 10/02/2009 10:47
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What nice, responsible people these bankers are!
- Ken Joralemon, london, UK, 10/02/2009 10:44
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