Reader views (39)

 Add your view

This is yet another example of the ridiculous bureaucracy that plagues modern society. A simple university quiz contest - intended to enrich both the participants and viewers, becomes notorious for the controversy it creates.

- Jeff, Sault Ste Marie, Canada

Its time to go through the BBC Charter with a fine tooth comb to make sure the BBC is not breaking any rules. For example, one rule in the Charter states that no two members of the same family may work together - so I don't want to see Peter and Dan Snow together again and I look forward to their public humiliation.

- Gillian Walton, Brentford, UK

That paragon of virtue the BBC was able to change the rules of Strictly Come Dancing when it appeared that the programme would be affected. But that is the BBC pandering to its C list Celeb culture.

- Dave, London England

Disqualifying someone because they broke the rules is not petty, it's called integrity, something Michael Kay would do well to learn. Even his son seems to have accepted the decision with reluctance but good grace.

- John, London, UK

Simple for the next series ALL OXFORD universitie teams should not copmpete until an apoligy is issued. Program will then be pointless.

- Den, London

Fancy going through life being remembered as the person 'who cheated on University Challenge'!

Still, I expect he has precisely the sort of integrity to be a Labour MP.

- George, London

It is amazing that most of the ranters on this site seem to have failed to read the article on which they are commenting.

It says in the fifth last paragraph: "A BBC spokeswoman said finalists are sent an email to check they are still eligible. If not, a substitute is allowed."

If Mr Kay did receive such an email, and omitted to say that he was no longer elegible, then he is not as innnocent as he contends.

- William, London, UK

Casper Slides - the BBC are cheats they cheat us out of £150 per annum. Oh but as you live in France you can watch the BBC for free

- Taxfreetv, London

Bang on, Russell from London - otherwise, applying Mr Kay's logic to its inevitable conclusion, anyone who had obtained a degree from a University could represent that establishment in UC including, as you say, someone who got their degree years ago.

And, when all's said and done, it IS only a quiz show, not a general election....

- Hb, London, UK

If the rules didn't matter then it wouldn't be 'competition', would it! It would be a free-for-all and the win would have no meaning. When you enter a competition you are agreeing to a set of pre-existing rules, not just those that are convenient.

Howard, London, UK is quite right - it is only a quiz. It is the thinking behind the 'rules not important' protests that bother me, especially on the part of the guy's dad. He is saying, in effect, that because they had not initially caught the guy out, whether an innocent mistake or not, he should be able to get away with it. Apply that thinking to the big world outside and what do you get? (Illegal Immigration springs immediately to mind as an example).

- Rogan, Irving

If this had been a close run contest it might have been right to look at the fine print. It was not a close run contest, it was an overwhelming victory, won by the amazing performance by Gail trimble.It was exciting to watch and a fantastic finale to the series.Sorting out the status of Sam Kay was a challenge for the BBC and it failed as usual.

- M Wilkinson, London UK

Mark S E L, Rugby Laws try to ensure, before a competative game starts, that a player who is not eligible to play in a specified group, can not participate. (Depending on age or school year). Citing punishes something that has happened during a game and has been missed by the referee.
Gc I only wish there had been some rules in place in respect of the current financial crisis, then at least someone may have been held accountable for this debacle, and maybe some of the little people would not have lost their employment.

- Al, Kingstown UK

Its a no win situation. Nobody wins this year. The BBC had little option but to uphold the rules, and should be condoned for a brave decision.

- Dhanraj, basildon

Sorry Mr Kay senior, but every time your dear son informed viewers that he was "studying chemistry at CC" - after he had begun full time employment - he was lying.

Did it really not cross the minds of him, you or his team mates that the programme is called 'University' Challenge? Had he been upfront I doubt if any of the other teams would have objected to him remaining part of the team, but he - and the other 3 - chose to keep stum.

They are paying the price for the belief that the basic rules of a long running programme do not apply to them.

- Scots Lass, Scotland

@Marvin, Belfast: You misread my comment, my fault. I was not commenting on the mistake. I was commenting on the fact the BBC actually stipped the winners of their prize, for what was a relatively minor oversight by both parties, while not (harshly) punishing individuals who had done far worse, such as the dishonest phone ins, rude presenters etc who are an appalling influence on young people, unlike this excellent Oxford team. And I don't have a beard, I'm actually what is known in the trade as middle class and intend to continue to fight the dumbing down of this country until the job is done. Live with it.

- Vision Aforethought, Oxford & London

Who cares? its a quiz show.

- Howard, London, UK

Rules are rules and have to be upheld.

Everyone accepts that the infringement was accidental, and no-one is trying to say that the "winning" team were cheating, not even the opposing team. They can still take pride in what they accomplished. Nevertheless, officially speaking, they didn't win.

There are plenty of similar events in other sports, where teams are variously "robbed" by "blind" referees, failed equipment, bad weather, or indeed, by overlooking obscure rules.

- Nigel, London

Everybody seems to have a view on this, from their side of the fence. I wish someone could explain to me how we each get our own view.

- Martin H. Watson, Teddington

I wonder how many of the rules are everything lobby, feel the same way about their local parking attendants, and TFL for example?

I am sure they respect their local councils and MP's as omniprescent centres of authority too.

this lad could not have been more open, on a fun quiz show. get a grip, or loosen it as the case may be.

- Scott, London

Gc,

when you ignore the substance of a matter, in favour of a rigid, bureaucratic rules based decision model you soon find yourself leaning on the "I was only following orders" defence.

rules are there for people who lack the ability to see the substantive, and must be controlled. as you well demonstrate, some people's decision making and cognitive reasoning needs to be legislated against - but that is the underpinning floor. not the absolute principle.

- Scott, London

The BBC created this mess because they switched the filming to take place across two academic years - any of the original entrants could lose their place at university or their tutors lose the funding as this student's did. The entrants were only asked if they intended to study the following year, no one can guarantee it. What's supposed to happen, the team comes back with different members?

The BBC failed to check on the status of any of the later stages' entrants after the start of a new academic year. That should have been their starter for ten.

BBC management is getting sloppier and sloppier as you can see from the phone-in scandals and the mishandling of John Sergeant and all sorts of other things. They need to be proactive and not reactive.

- Tom Moncrieff, london W6

Alan and Scott,
Please clarify which rules are to be ignored and which rules are no longer valid.

Have you learnt nothing from the bacjkground to the current financial crisis? Ignore the little rules because "they're good boys really" and "nobody's getting hurt" and see what happens. The world has changed but you two are dinosaurs up there Ms Hemsley and her "tax is only for the little people" comments.

Oh, and the BBC is out to get the middle classes says someone else? Sad paranoia.

- Gc, London

The BBC ruling in this case is pathetic. The contestant was entirely open about his situation and he was accepted on the day of the match. Can you imagine a cup final decision being overturned 4 months after it was played because of a late decision about the eligibility of one of the players? Manchester should decline the trophy and much credit to them for their dignified and gracious reaction in defeat.

- Bloke, London

The BBC are not being petty about this - not in today's climate where a whole banking system has not being playing by the rules and "omitting" to tell regulators how their circumstances have changed has cost me hopefully on a temporary basis my livelihood and c £300k from my pension!

Unlike his father, his son knows he should have told the BBC that he had taken a job (with a big 4 auditor?). He presumably did not because he felt he would have had to be substituted.

- Mike, london

Surely it is time for the BBC to be wound up. It cannot be relied on to manage anything properly and its arrogance is beyond belief.

- George Black, devon uk

Vision Aforethought, Oxford & London

I would have thought that given the BBC actually airs UC, then your point flounders somewhat.


Alan of Carlisle,

Can you please explain what "citing" is in Rugby? To the layman citing is nothing more than policing/punishing after the event.

- Mark, South-East London

of course its petty.

there will always be a certain type of person who thinks rules are rules, or rules are there for a reason - and their likes must be resisted.

- Scott, London

Nice effort Vison Aforethought of Oxford - how do you manage to get from a straightforward mistake (by both the contestant and the BBC) to a conspiracy theory of state run organisations dismantling the fabric of society. You're having a laugh aren't you? It's a quiz for fun and entertainment with a bit of old-fashioned rivalry thrown in for good measure. Give yourelf a shake man....get a job....and shave that goatie beard off, it looks silly.

- Marvin, Belfast

The nub of this issue is WHO brought the matter up or complained about Sam Kay? The coven at the BBC won't say but I'll bet it was someone from Manchester.

- K Stone, London

Rules are rules Mr.Kay even if you got a first from Oxford. It was his responsibility to tell the BBC not their's to investigate every contestant. It is just a quiz after all....

- Mark, London

The reason the BBC has done this is because it is doing all it can to work alongside HM Gov and destroy the middle / intellectual classes as part of a general swing to socialism and worse. The BBC website gives up space to celebs who contribute nothing to society (in fact, they are dragging us all down with them), but any individuals or groups whose success and good character could be an inspiration to young people will quickly be shunned for the most insignificant reason. Remember, all socialist / communist or other dystopian revolutions start by discrediting free thinking intellectuals and/or the religious.

Compare this to how reluctantly the BBC is to deal with presenters who lower their standards. All of whom are still gainfully employed.

File this one for the records.

- Vision Aforethought, Oxford & London

Couldn't agree more with Michael Kay's comment regarding the enforcement of the rules. If you Have rules you have to police them at the time. As has been said, 'Rules are for the guidence of wise men, but blind obedience of fools'. As a rugby coach we enforce the RFU's Law's at every match, the BBC are just ducking their responsibility for policing their own rules.

- Alan, Carlisle UK

So the Kay family think being caught at rule breaking is 'petty'. Hmmmm nothing surprises me these days. All he has done is to betray his team-mates and betray the competition.

- Kewuk, London

This has all the markings of the BBC wincing, tugging at its collar, and falling over itself to be "seen" to do the right thing, and then getting it completely wrong.

Normal service continues.

- Escobar A-Lop-Lop, Camden County

I love the comment "he got a first from Oxford and that is more important than this".

If that is the case then a 50 year old accountant with a first from Oxford could be on the show. Or a 90 year old retired gardener with a first from Oxford etc.

I do not think that the necessary requirement to be on the show is whether a contestant has a first from Oxford or not. The necessary requirement is clearly that one has to be a STUDENT!

This contestant misled the BBC by not notifying them that his status had changed. He had plenty of opportunity to substitute with an actual student. Or maybe they could change the show title to “University/Accounting Firm Challenge”!

- Russell, London, UK

The BBC may be petty but they aren't cheats.

- Casper Slides, France at the moment

he broke the rules he is punished, that is that.

- Stuart, UK

I agree the BBC is opetty> Its got another management decision wrong again. To a degree the BBC is also culpable.

- Kathleen Mcelvogue, Birmingham England

Most postgraduates are part timers anyway. They should only accept undergraduates which would make it a level playing field for the new universities that do not have such a post grad culture.

- Jack Spratt, Richmond, England

Add your comment