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'Dangerous' trainspotters to be banned from King's Cross
Dick Murray, Transport Editor16.03.09
TRAINSPOTTERS could be banned from King's Cross for security reasons, it was claimed today.
Union leaders say National Express will bar spotters from stations on the East Coast main line because they are a nuisance and pose a "security risk". There are suggestions of other operators following suit.
Theban, which union leaders claim "betrays Britain's railway heritage", covers King's Cross and York, which is the spiritual home of the industry and next door to the National Rail Museum.
National Express is instigating the ban as it installs automatic ticket gates at main stations along the line, say union leaders, who accused the operator of "mindless vandalism".
Gerry Doherty, general secretary of the TSSA, the industry's second largest union, said one of his officials had been told by a manager that trainspotters posed a "security risk".
He said: "Do they really think that a 10-year-old boy with a pencil and notebook is in possession of a dangerous weapon? You do wonder sometimes what planet these people are on."
Mr Doherty added: "The barbarians have finally taken over the industry. Only people with no sense of history would commit such an act of mindless vandalism. Young trainspotters have been with us since Victorian times. Now National Express is saying they should be banned as they are a nuisance.
"The company has told us that train spotters will be banned at all its main line stations which will be installed with gated barriers."
Stations covered by the ban also include Stevenage, Peterborough, Newark, Leeds, Durham, Doncaster, Wakefield and Newcastle.
The TSSA could challenge the ban on legal grounds and is contacting the Chief Constable of the British Transport Police.
Mr Doherty said: "As far as we are aware, the Chief Constable's national guidelines guaranteed trainspotters access to all stations under the Act when the railways were privatised under John Major's government.
"We shall be asking the Chief Constable to make sure that these guidelines still apply to private operators like National Express."
He said he doubted whether National Express chief executive Richard Bowker "even knows the guidelines exist".
One trainspotter, who would only give his name as Roger, said: "National Express has taken leave of its senses.
"Trainspotters may be seen as a bit odd but we are friends of the railways. We don't smash it up, steal cables or blow ourselves to bits - so why are they picking on us?"
A spokeswoman for National Express said: "It is absolutely not true that we are banning trainspotters. But we are putting (automatic) gates on our stations which is a franchise commitment and supported by Passenger Focus (the national rail watchdog).
"However, we do have a system of station passes whereby anyone who wants to use the platform to wave goodbye can do so."
A TSSA spokesman said: "At our meeting in York with National Express management we were categorically told that trainspotting is being banned without exception.
"There was no mention of station passes which appear to us only to allow people on the platforms for a very short space of time."
Reader views (29)
hooray its not gonig to happen now anymore, NXEC have gone bust! Im a 13 year old enthusiast and I think all this about terroism is a load of rubbish. Ive been stopped a few times and had my digital camera checked by the BTP under the terroism act! deary me, pathetic
- Ken, London England
Richard Bowker was a trainspotter himself in his youth and had a particular interest in the English Electric type 4, Class 40s.
- Arno, London, England UK
why would anyone want to train spot at kings cross anyway, much better to buy a one day travelcard and go to finsbury park, spot there until questioned,then get the next train either north or to moorgate, then back to finsbury park
- Chris Burgess, York, Great Britain., York
I was born 75 years ago in Acton West London backing on to the Great Western Railway marshalling yard,and have always had an interest in railways and steam in particular.Unfortunately I won't last as long as the Indian loco,155 years old and still in steam,pictures of which were pulished yesterday in the Daily Express. Mike
- Mike Wilson, Shanklin G. Britain
I am 16 years old, and am not a train spotter. I do however, enjoy taking photos of charter trains from time to time. If NXEC are pathetic enough to ban 'trainspotters,' then that is their problem, however, it wont stop me! I'm sorry, but this has gone WAY too far now. I have had enough of this pathetic discrimination against people with one of the most harmless hobbies ever!! Railway operators will not win!
- Josh W, Dover, Kent
Well it isn't being implemented everywhere. At a London terminus the other day, they opened the ticket barriers so that people could walk onto the platforms and take photos of a steam engine.
However, some time ago I saw one of those cheapo security guards tell a woman to stop taking photos of the station clock.
Paulb, London - Are you sure you were intimidated by rail staff and not the idiots in the cab office.
- Mark H, London England
I don't know which is sadder, the town of Basingstoke or the need to live there. It's still sad that old predjudices still exist. It is a pity people with these sheepish attitutes dont look beyond the urban myth. Rail enthusiasts, along with car enthusiasts, bus enthusiasts, motorbike enthusiasts come from all walks of life and from all status. This is just a fact. To think less of someone by their pasttime is no different to thinking certain people are good at sport because of the colour of their skin. It saddens me narrow stereotyped views are still out there.
- Bernard, London, UK
Kings Cross Network Rail security have had a problems with photographers since 9/11. They seem to think that even if an enthusiast special arrives at Kings Cross with 600 photographers they should prevent each and every one of them taking a photo, even though the arrival had been known about months in advance.
- Bernard, London, UK
OK. So show us the evidence then.
Statistically speak exactly how many train spotters have been convicted of terrorist attacks on trains?
It's like; exactly how many small middle age Englishwomen have actually been convicted of hijacking aeroplanes with a pair of nail clippers?
Don't ask or you'll be chucked off the flight, just hand over your Boots manicure set to the nasty Nazi at the gate. It's not like you've paid HUGE sums of money to be treated like this.
Oh wait, it is!
- Thalia, London
There are far more passengers than Trainspotters. If they are sreious about the risk nposed by people on railways stations, they should ban passengers.
- Andrew, London W1
Giving up freedoms for the sake of freedom is an oxymoron!
- Rogan, Irving
Perhaps the problem with trainspotters is that they are the eyes and ears of the railway and will be readily aware of what and what not National Express East Coast can do. That is why they are sometimes considered a nuisance when their photographs sometimes cause National Express management embarrassment. As far as Kings Cross Station is concerned it is a Network Rail managed station (not National Express)and the trainspotters can be present with Network Rail's blessing provided you make yourself known in advance, do not use flash photography or are not seen taking pictures of CCTV cameras. Note that the Terrorism Act now applies so withouit prior permission do not take pictures of BTP or MPS security staff either
- Donald Smith, Palmers Green
Maybe clog Dancing, Morris Dancing and playing Bagpipes will be deemed 'Potential Terrorist Activities'. What about the WI and the Jam and Cake making sessions - maybe they will be deemded 'Cooking up WMD'
- Uncle Vanya, East Anglia area UK
A couple of years ago I was flying Jumbo jets for a living, with Manchester airport as my home base.
This airport, like many others in the UK, is surrounded by open countryside bordering the airfiled perimeter fence, the perfect cover for launching an attack against an aircraft in its most critical phases of flight, takeoff and landing.
However, there was always a healthy presence of plane-spotters, with their telephoto lenses and binoculars, dotted along the fence. I can tell you that they were a very welcome sight, as they would be the first to spot anything amiss or out of place, and the first to report what they had seen to the airport authorities and/or police.
The very same can be said of trainspotters at railway stations. I am a regular rail user and have never seen these individuals causing any nuisance or obstruction. Their removal would not only be yet another affront to long held freedoms and traditions, it would make the railways a more dangerous place.
It comes as no surprise to me that National Express East Coast is spearheading this campaign, their service is nothing compared to that of its predecessor, GNER, and its barrier staff are amongst the most unpleasant and unhelpful that I have ever encountered.
I hope that a successful challenge is mounted against this spiteful initiative.
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster
I am surprised that anyone can still find a train to spot; since privatisation.
- Mickyinlondon, london
I'll bet that train and aircraft spotters were banned in all the old iron curtain countries? But never mind, in the last ten years this Government has made every effort to turn the UK into a replica of the old East Germany, complete with ever more police powers, covert surveillance, and all the rest of an UNfree country.
- Jon Kent, Hertford. UK
Slowly the Police State moves on, a people persuing a harmless hobby with decades of heritage are now viewed as potential terrorists or paedophiles. Will it be you and your pastime next?
- Mark, Bournemouth, England
Coming soon to a gvt near you: "New security rules will require citizens to obtain permission before leaving their homes."
- Trunk, US
Paulb, they have no right to prevent you from taking photos. I would write and complain to the people in charge, copying it to your MP and Offrail. I trust you managed to get a picture of the petty official bullies?
- Paul, London
Quite right, industrial espionage, old Johnny foreigner could be amongst them trying to get the gen on our latest rolling stock. Security is a must, if we are to maintain our place in the world.
- Wills, Soton
Trainspotters are indeed a danger, I was very nearly bored to death by one once.
- Bob, Cheam
Do you seriously think 10 year olds are interested in trainspotting. its the preserve of those who should get a girlfriend!
- Evan Mcgilvray, Leeds
Ridiculous! Trainspotters pose no risk to anyone and can actually be a useful extra set of eyes around the station, well capable of spotting any suspicious behaviour. Theirs is a harmless hobby and they should be allowed to continue to enjoy it in peace.
- Bryan Armstrong, London
If they are genuinely concerned about security National Express could use trainspotters as extra eyes and ears. After all many will be more knowledgeable and better informed than some of the staff!
- Michael, London
This is the sort of thing which used to happen in East Germany before the Iron Curtain came down. Even the Stasi could not stop our enthusiasts.
Perhaps National Express will happily go further. However, are they really wise to pick a quarrel with a crowd of determined englishmen who think their rights are being meddled with?
- Tim Oaks, Buxton Derbyshire
They are mad, pernickety, overbearing and wrong. How like our new governing elite
- Gawain Towler, Wimborne/Brussels
I dont know which is saddest. The train spotters or the ban imposed upon them.
- Dave Davies, Basingstoke, Hants
I like this kind of story, becuase it brings us closer to the day when we will have no choice but to destroy the system utterly, with its petty rules, idiots in uniform, the abolition of nearly all our freedoms, the presumption of guilt, and all this rubbish about "security". Let us dismantle the security state, the surveillance state, and imprison everyone in "government". They are fools.
- Neil M., london uk,
I have been a train enthusiast all of my life,and I have seen us go from a free state to a communist state as far as taking photos of railways is concerned.
I wanted to take some photos of my local station at Hampton Court before it is demolished. I was apprehended by the station staff and could not believe the level of abuse and intimidation I received. I just hope that tourists keep their cameras in their bags before they get out of the stationm.
- Paulb, London
