• Shami Chakrabarti: 'This could ruin lives in the wrong hands'

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As a mother myself i can not imagine the hurt and pain Mrs Bowman is going through, however it would not work Firstly Yes it takes away our Liberty but more importantly we are living in a corrupt system, as we have seen with the MP's expences it would not be anyway safe to leave our DNA with the government.

- Steph Anie, Birmingham

I would like to see everyone, including politicians, have their DNA on file. If you have nothing to hide there is no problem, if you have something to hide then maybe we will all be a little safer. Living in Canada I am sure that someone over here will shout that it takes away our rights and freedoms but someone has already done that to the people who have been assaulted and murdered.

- Chris Darling, Hubbards, Nova Scotia, Canada

It is a grave mistake to believe that the DNA database makes people safer, or cuts crime. It is nothing but Big Brother and we should destroy the database.

- Neil M., london uk,

Last year the police asked me to give my DNA to rule myself out of a rape enquiry. As a black male who lives in London and rides a mororbike within a certain age group I fitted the "profile" of the rapist.

I refused to give my DNA as I had read the police were collecting black mens DNA by stealth. Apparently by the end of this year they will have the DNA or 50% of all black males under 35 years of age.
Had the rapist been a white male who rode a motorbike I doubt very much they would have asked for the DNA of all the white males in London in his age group who rode a motorbike.
I have no objection to the police having everyones DNA but that is not going to happen anytime soon. I just don't like the sneak tactics.

- Peter London, London

when every policeman, MP, MEP, MSP, civil servant and public employee has their DNA on record and "safe" then i might consider it but only when i had proof that these people were on record was the case.

- Ron Oliver, Edinburgh Scotland

No, tragic as the death of Sally is, the rights and freedoms of the law abiding majority must be upheld. The police I'm sure would like nothing more than "push button detection" with a national database to make their lives much easier, but people must look at this in the context of the worrying trend of the massive increase in surveillance and databases kept on all individuals in the uk already. Privacy is a thing of the past in the UK.

- Steve, Hereford

As a parent I can understand where Linda Bowman is coming from, however, I don't agree with having a national DNA datbase as I don't believe that those responsible for managing such a system would be responsible enough to ensure that the information could not be compremised. We've read too many instances of information being 'lost' and how many times have we read about illegal immigrants working in sensitive areas. So can you imagine what would happen if someones DNA was compremised? This country monitors it's law abiding citizens far too much and seems to turn a blind eye to illegal activities. We need more visible police on the streets instead of the useless 'plastic' bobbies and better laws to deter crime instead of supporting criminals with human rights.

- Alan, London

"NO", "NEVER", as sorry as I am over the death of this girl Mrs Bowman must be nuts to demand that the DNA of everyone should be on record. What does she presume to do to those who refuse to give it? It is BECAUSE I have nothing to hide that do not need to have my DNA recorded...if she wins then everyone will be "guilty" until THEY can prove their own innocence.

- Michael Coventry, Hertford GB

This is rubbish. Until you can free up the police to actually catch criminals and stop filling in forms this will keep happening it doesn't matter how big your database. This is just more knee jerk response against a minority of people. I object to having my DNA stored where they can lose that as well as all the other data they would want with it. There is no justification for it.

- Disgusted, Reading

To all those in favour of DNA profiling, you HAVE given a sample of your DNA to the police already, haven't you? Like BEFORE you read this newspaper report? And offered to them your fingerprints, iris scan, passport, driving licence, employer information, bank details and phone and Internet logs, medical details (put on say a DVD), etc etc? In fact, you have nothing to hide so have set up a very detailed profile of yourself with the above information and more, and made it available on the Internet too, right?

- Ralph, GB

There can be NO justification in my opinion for placing the DNA of every citizen on a central database. This would simply be one huge step towards an Orwellian State. No Government across the world should be trusted with this type of information on its citizens for which dozens of other uses would soon be found to restrict freedoms, invade privacy and manage our lives. This is the kind of State intervention we have resisted since Magna Carta and we should continue to do so.

- Phil Booker, Brighton UK

I agree that EVERYONE should be on database. I certainly wouldn't mind.

- Jb Hove, hove sussex uk

To Tangomike - disagreeing with proposals is not "ignorance" and there are facts on both sides of the debate. A fact is however that arbitrary extension of state powers at the expense of the majority in order to affect a minority rarely has the desired effect and usually brings with it far more negative unforeseen effects.

- Steve, London UK

Nigel of London has the right idea. If everyone is on the database then the more aware criminals will use that to salt the crime. Be very afraid of this everyone, there are so many ways it can go wrong and be used against you.

- Ivan, Rodes, France

To all those against this proposal...
Don't get ignorance get in the way of the facts.

- Tangomike, Kensington, London

To loose a daughter is a misfortune, but the loss does not confer an instant expertise in matters of DNA.
-and certainly not a blanket endorsement for the
datacase State. No to ID cards.

- Clive Allen, Brighton, UK

Back in September 2004, when there were "only" 2.5 million records on the DNA database, Sir Alec Jeffreys - the pioneer of DNA profiling, was worried that the enormous size of the database could lead to false matches, see:

www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/sep/09/sciencenews.crime

The chance of a false match increases dramatically as more and more samples are put on the DNA database - which, of course, is what happens when you take samples from everyone.

Obviously, if your DNA is not on the database it is impossible for you to be incorrectly matched.

Once your DNA is on the database, you will be at the mercy of the matching technology for the rest of your life.

You can wave goodbye to your peace of mind if you live in a country when the police can come for you at any time, because your DNA has been falsely matched.

Nothing to think with - nothing to fear.

- Brian Drury, London Colney, England

Theory is good - absolute certainty that it would be abused? Anything BUT good. No - it wouldn't only be the bad guys who would need to be afraid, sorry Richard.

- Rogan, Irving

Yes, I agree: we should have a national database holding all UK residents DNA as soon as possibe. Ignore the self-righteous whinings of the silly civil liberties liberals and get on with it! It's really only criminals who should be afraid,

- Richard Kennard, London

How long until the police DNA database is passed to insurers, so they can deny certain people life insurance?

- Simon, London

Society would be better served by a database of dangerous people who campaign for the removal of our country's liberties. Linda Bowman can be the first entry on this database.

- Had Enough, London

I am a serving Police Officer and I don't agree with the automatic taking of DNA, I would like to know how Ian from Reading thinks that the Police are abusing the DNA database though

- Steven Jones, London

Everyone should be microchipped at birth.

- John Buckeridge, London

Lancashire Police are recruiting temporary "agency" staff to knock on people's doors requesting their DNA!!

They will have my DNA the day I die, NOT BEFORE.

- Reuben Camara, Morecambe UK

I do understand Sally's mum's thinking but I do not agree that everyone should have their DNA stored. Both Worboys and Reid had previously been arrested by the Police, who failed to establish a link. I'm no expert, but I believe the way forward would be for all police computers to be linked to initially flag up any samples within a certain "match" profile of DNA taken from the crime scene.

This would mean that wherever the attacker commits an offence, his DNA could be compared by different police forces, and then acted upon if there is a perfect match. Reid was questioned, but not fully investigated, so was free to commit even more offences in other London Boroughs. The fact that DNA samples was recovered from the crime scene but the rapist remained at large because neighbouring Police forces' initial intelligence was not compared is disturbing.

The Government also needs to free the Police from the red tape which would enable them to devote more time to crime-solving.

- Sonia M., St Albans, Herts

My right to live my life privately without government surveillance is more important.

- Trunk, US

I’m sick to death of one awful scum bag being used to justify treating every citizen in this country like a piece of trash. Ironically the piece of trash concerned had not been DNA sampled despite having 16 sex convictions, how ironic!

- Bd Mason, Bushey, Herts

What she should rather be concentrating on is the woeful conviction rates. Isn't it something like single figures or at least below 20%?
Oh, and last I heard, we live in a democracy - just - so that's your opinion Sally, what about mine? I don't want my DNA or other personal details on a database without my consent. You know what consent is, right?

- Ralph, GB

I don't trust our politicians and civil servants enough to give them any more personal information about me than they already have. They, and their mates, have scattered the country with spy cameras, taken an axe to freedoms the English people fought and died for. We shouldn't give them any more

- Max Parker, london

My favourite quote, but I can't remember where it was taken from, is "the most basic right you have in a democracy is the right to be left alone."
Notwithstanding this comment, I am dead against a universal DNA database for (at least!) 2 reasons:

1) Are we being served by government, or are we being ruled? A DNA database (or an ID card scheme) firmly, and irrevocably, tips the balance towards us being ruled. On top of everything else going on with our surveillance state, you should be extremely concerned.
2) Look at the Prevention of Terrorism Act. See how it's use has been expanded since it was enacted-even councils now invoke it to spy on you. Demonstrators at an Armaments show were arrested by police using it's powers (I don't think terrorists demonstrate outside of Armaments sales shows do you?).

As someone has stated here-the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You only have to look at what our government has said and done previously to form an opinion on where this might lead.
Oh yes, councils selling our personal details to private companies. As someone has stated, will our DNA go down that same road one day?
And will our records be stored in the same manner that records that have been lost or stolen were stored? I'm amazed that anyone in favour of this can honestly say that they have thought this through at any real depth beyond a knee jerk "I'm not a criminal so who cares" reaction.
Wake up before it's too late!

- Tim, London Uk

In a perfect world this idea would work. Unfortunately in the world we are living in, this will just make everybody a suspect. More emphasis should be put on the authorities that allow convicted rapists, murderers etc to go free rather than have to spend their lives in jail. All we hear is that the jails are full - the simple solution is to build more prisons and make convicted prisoners serve their full sentences, rather than make innocent people give up their last piece of freedom to the authorities.

- Lynn, London

Let's cut to the chase and halve the workload of police by getting all males only over the age of 16 onto the database. They are the only ones who commit the kinds of violent crimes that require manhunts and DNA evidence. There is no point in putting women - who are 1000 times more likely to be a victim than a perpetrator - onto the database.

- Beth, London

This woman has her judgement clouded by her grief. It was the police who cocked it up, and anyway they apprehended the culprit without a national database.

- Kerry, Purley

I understand Sally Anne's mother feeling this way and am sure I'd be the same if my child were horribly murdered, but that's just what it is: feeling, emotion. A mother's grief may be a dreadful thing but it is not sound reason for passing a law that affects the rights of every human being in the land.

- M Farbiash, Highgate

I suppose I can understand the mother, but her reaction is based on blind emotion. The blunt fact is, forcing everyone onto a DNA database makes them all criminals-in-waiting, with innocent folk subject to inspection, suspicion, abuse, wrongful arrest and everything else that goes with this government's abysmal database obsession. The presumption that all women are paranoid about being raped or murdered is ludicrous and this story highlights the fear being deliberately generated that panders to the government and pushes them further along the road to achieving their Orwellian agenda.
In any case, retaining everyone's DNA won't actually stop a physical attack....so don't think you're going to be any safer just because 60 million people have been stuffed onto a computer!!
Then of course, there's lost data on memory sticks.....

- Cd, Bristol, UK

I have sympathy for Mrs Bowman, but while she may be sick of people who complain about this idea, I am equally sick of all the apologists for this government's police state ambitions. "If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear", they say. Hogwash. Control of the individual is insidious and ultimately leads to far worse problems - history shows us that totalitarian systems never promote or care for the needs or rights of the individual.

- John Chance, London, UK

Well I'm afraid I'm also a mother and I'm so aghast at the Government's sinister attempts to collect every shed of personal information about my children they can that I have felt duty-bound to take my children to live abroad. I really feel for Linda Bowman: there can be few worse things for a parent to go through, however I disagree with her that the depraved semi-human who killed her daughter would not have carried out his crime if he was concerned about his DNA on a database: he would simply have made greater effort to destroy the evidence.

Remember: it seemed innocuous a mere lifetime ago when a well-known computer company helped a well-known European government compile a database of ethnicity for the purpose of genocide and eugenics. Think how more sophisticated the information is now, and how much easier it is to copy or steal it electronically.

A DNA database is a very, very, very bad idea. After all, the UK has 50% of the world's CCTV cameras, but that isn't making it any safer either, is it?

- Roz, Chamonix, France

Instead of investigating crimes, the police will be able to require all individuals trace through their DNA to account for their movements. In the mean time a visitor to this country will leave, freely, having slipped through the net. Typical narrow thinking, what about innocent people questioned by police or even convicted because their DNA is on the scene of a crime. A database would achieve nothing.

- Mike, Worthing, UK

Yes Mrs Bowman, I too am very sorry for you that you lost your daughter and I know that it will take you a long time to get over it, if ever. However, I - nor I imagine the vast majority of people - am not willing to allow my freedom to become the casualty of your emotional upset and the propaganda value that has for the fanatical proponents of DNA databases, ID cards and implanted microchips or any other manifestations of the Orwellian Nazi Police State.

- David Moon, Seaford, East Sussex, UK

It's time for her grief to stop clouding her common sense. The authorities with have to scrape the DNA off my cold, dead hand.

- Keith, Kings Cross, London, UK

Is Gordon Number One? I am not a number I am a free man!

- Number Six, London

DNA certainly isn't infallible. There is a condition called chimerism where a person carries two distinct sets of DNA. Its very rare with only 30 cases reported worldwide, but who knows how many more there are.

In human biology, a chimera is an organism with at least two genetically distinct types of cells -- or, in other words, someone meant to be a twin. But while in the mother's womb, two fertilized eggs fuse, becoming one fetus that carries two distinct genetic codes -- two separate strands of DNA.

So no DNA evidence isn't foolproof

- Lone Gunman, Anywhere but Here

A blanket DNA Database - What downside could there be?

How about this:

"A SCHOOLGIRL was raped by a gang who poured caustic soda over her body to destroy DNA evidence".

From: The Sun - Rapists throw acid on girl - 15th Jan 2008

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article688118.ece

- Brian Drury, London Colney, England

The biggest problem with any kind of database is that those that seek to abuse them. The police already abuse the current DNA database.

The government will then hand it over to the National Health Service to filter out those that are ‘worth’ treating, the money saving on that alone would be tremendous. Those of the nothing to hide, nothing to fear brigade, should realise that their DNA is a predictor of their life expectancy and defines whether it is worth the money in treating them for an illness.

- Ian, Reading, England

So how would this work? Do we have the police marching into all maternity wards twice daily?

"Scuse me madam, just got to take you six hour old son's DNA in case he turns into a criminal type."

I'm sorry for Mrs Bowman but in this she is completely wrongheaded. We live in a society where anti-terrorism laws are used to spy on people who put their bins out on the wrong day. Such a database is simply too powerful not to be abused.

- Tobin, Andover

who will look after this database? The civil servants who leave sensitive data on trans and cafes? Then its there for anyones gain if the database is lost.

- Anne, London

What’s the problem unless you are going to do something criminal? What scares people to the core is the maths; as once you are on the database they can narrow down to your distant relatives. Say they have my DNA on file and cousin has committed a crime and they run his DNA, they can narrow down the possibilities to about 20 people even without his DNA, due to similarities to mine.

- Steve, London

How about we just put microchips in the back of people's heads so that our friendly, non authoritarian governement and their old bill troops can know exactly where we are at all times?

- Lb, London

There are many innocent people on the DNA database. My partner and I are on it.
Her ex husband made a series of totally untrue allegations against us of harassment to the police which they logged as crimes. He then attacked us by jumping on the bonnet of her car and claimed to police that we had run him over.
Of course, the police did a wonderful investigation. They just arrested us and we had to give DNA and prints.
We were not charged but our details are held and it still shows on their records we attacked him.
To say innocent until proved guilty is rubbish and a large data base is already being compiled. Beware!

- Colin, SEVILLA ESPANA

It'll probably happen someday. I cant see today being that day until we have the technology to tell truly whether or not the dna on the scene was from the person or a replica from a lab. There is the chance for this to be a really good thing, as well as a terribly complex and difficult operation to ensure the innocent aren't abused.

- Sarah R, Brisbane Australia

"How long before insurance companies get their hands on the database, and create an uninsurable medical underclass?"

WRONG! it would mean that you could go out of your way to enjoy life to the full if you thought you might die at, say, 37. You'd also still be able to get cheaper insurance for all other ailments up until the age of 37.

- Martin H. Watson, Teddington

Where's the queue? I'll sign up. I've got nothing to hide, and it might save my life one day.

- Martin H. Watson, Teddington

Once you start selling something like your freedom which is priceless for a token of security you deserve neither.
These events are horrible and traumatizing for the family and friends and in these circumstances people affected tend to think with their grief stricken heart rather than their clear heads about these issues (all due respect). Policies which affect everyone and also future generations cannot be decided based on emotional thinking. In my humble opinion the price is quite frankly too high in the long term. (+ history has proven that a great many times over.)

- Eddy, London

I feel sorry for Sally Ann's mum and the horrific reality of what happened to her daughter, but she has no permission nor right to ask me for my DNA - I am not a criminal nor a slave or a piece of data, I am a free person - stop trying to change that.

- Phil, London

No! No! No! We are in enough trouble with our evolving police state at the moment which I fear has reached a point of no return. Also DNA testing is not invaluable.

- John, London

Don't forget the recent 'European Serial Killer' case - This was where they police had used the wrong type of swab and, therefore, found the same DNA at several sites. What would have happened to that poor person if the first case occurred near where they were?
How many cases have there been when DNA collected from an innocent person (i.e. Voluntarily given [Yes, folks try to help and get lumbered], Not Charged or Not guilty)? There is in this country still the presumption of innocence.

- Jim, London

Yes, great idea... Why not all just get bar codes on the back of our necks as well.

I, for one would not want my children to be 'Tagged' from birth. Even the chinese aren't this 'Secure'

- Mark, St Albans

DNA is useful, but it's not infallible - look at the case in Germany where the police have just realised that the female "Phantom" they've been searching for for years is almost certainly a factory worker whose DNA has contaminated the swabs they use!

- Roy, England

Catching rapists. That's where it would start, but where would it end?

You might be sitting next to a criminal on a train, and one of your hairs sticks to his coat. It later falls off at a crime scene. Pray that you have a bullet-proof alibi.

The government would have everyone's DNA. A malign government might decide to plant it in order to discredit or incriminate anyone opposing them. And, of course, use it to work out who was leaking embarassing things that ought to be known to the press.

Medicine may advance to the point where is is possible to work out life expectancy from DNA. How long before insurance companies get their hands on the database, and create an uninsurable medical underclass? And sooner or later you might find out that you were part of it. How would you feel, knowing that you were likely to die young, or in a particular and horrible way?

If you think these are bad, I can think of many darker possibilities. The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Do not take this first step, because there is no way back from it. No-one should be in a DNA database who has not already been convicted of a serious crime.

- Nigel, London

- chris m, Morbihan,France

So if we bring in a database to store every bodies DNA, then can we bring back hanging?

- Frank, Home Counties, England.

No way. You take the DNA from the criminal if there's evidence. We're innocent until proven guilty in this country. The massive breach of our dignity and freedom (and potential for future missuse) of a DNA database means it is just not worth it. How about stricter punishment if you're caught?

- Worried, London

Just read the history of crime in the UK . The number of persons who have been wrongly convicted. ['stitched up' by the police.]This is why hanging was abolished.Universal DNA , what a wonderful opportunity for the police to solve all crime.

- chris m, Morbihan,France

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