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QUOTE:
"In the course of my job I spend a lot of time working with the British Transport Police, trying to get something done about paint vandalism. Calling it graffiti gives it a name that it doesn't deserve, it is paint vandalism. The rail network is very large. These people often wear masks or balaclavas to hide their faces. The police can't be everywhere at once. Defacing Trains and Rail property is just the thin end of the wedge. It creates an intimidating atmosphere, encouraging further crime and more destructive vandalism."

"It is not a mural it is paint vandalism, on a par with dogs urinating to mark their territory."

it leads to other crimes?...is there any evidence that these people commited any other crimes?...it causes a threatening atmosphere?...not to me it, nor to the majority of the public it would seem based on a lot of the views written here...."on a par with dogs urinating" thats not a major thing is it, dogs dont get punnished for pissin in public! these young men had jobs and had moved on from graffitti, so what is gained from sending them to prison? when they get out they will have to find new jobs and new opportunities which will no doubt be a biigger challenge with this hanging over them.its ridiculous. this is a waste of time, money and prison space. graffitti dosnt harm anyone, and isnt a major issue!!

- Jack, london

You lot really are an ignorant bunch of idiots, i bet most of you have absolutely no idea wbout what graffiti involves, the time and effort spent learning styles and unwritten rules, reading pages and pages of old magazines, learning how to get your paint, what paint to use, and how to use it. If any of you were sucked into the graffiti scene from a young age you will know what i mean. You rant about how awful it is, but the inteligence involved is unbelieveable, could you find your way in and out of a train yard ? without being seen by security ? and leaving something that gives you a good feeling ? think of all the work involved in what they do.

- Johny English, Dirty South

They caused 134k of damage ... Id be very interested to see an actual breakdown of this 134k as I find it hard to believe that a few chemicals and the man hours come anywhere near this figure... if they do I want a job cleaning trains as they must be on hundreds of pounds an hour.

- B Lucky, st ives, uk

some may say 3yrs is 2 much? ive worked the gates at charring x,and when your suddenly grabbed by the throat by an angry builder who,s just done 14hrs and wants to go home but he cant for another hour because 1 of these heros have tagged to many trains so we have delays u,d be right in thinking no i dont feel sorry for them just any of my ex workers that still have to deal woih this daily and for the people who started the day with no criminal record find them selfs nicked

- Ox1 3pu, MARGATE KENT

I AGREE.... CLEAN UP NOT BANG UP................
OLD FASHIONED JUDGES ALWAYS GAVE SHORT SHARP SHOCKS..... BUT 18 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!
WELL DONE B.T.P. SEE YOU NEXT TUESDAY S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS WILL ONLY ENCOURAGE RETRIBUTIONS.. MORE CRIMINALS AND MORE CLEANING UP TO DO. THESE KIDS GREW OUT OF IT 2 YEARS AGO WITHOUT YOUR HELP.

- Mater, LONDON

well done BTP - you made this country proud - locking up youths about to study at university - they never caused physical harm to anybody, and your numbers do not add up for the damage that was done...a waste of time.

do you think sending these guys to prison will help them? The only thing it will do is educate them about even worse things in the miserable place! what do you think will happen when young, open-minds are exposed to rapists and murderers.

again - well done - does this 'crime' really fit the punishment?

- Fireman Sam, 'Great Britain'

The fact that the judge deemed this worthy of a custodial sentence is absolutely disgusting. I can see why a community service order may well be in order but sending them to prison is frankly shameful, and demonstrates how we are criminalising our youth, and almost all aspects of youth culture in Britain. As a commuter I have never had a problem with graffiti and prefer it to the mundane, corporate logos I would otherwise see on trains. Why does our government always find it necessary to criminalize and persecute something which does not conform with our society based entirely around money. Britain is one of the only countries in the world to incarcerate graffiti writers and it is nothing to be proud of you.

Shame on the police.
Shame on the justice system.

- Daniel Horsher, Leicester

this is stupid building up a case for over 3 years, they were 17 and under when they committed the so called "crime" its pathetic our justice system is a joke,,, it just makes you think they would have been given a lighter sentence if they committed a "real crime" our justice system is a joke!!!

- Emma, Croydon

I think this is discusting. How can a crime that was commited over three years ago when they were sixteen years old and under have turned into a 18 month sentence when this crime was commited when they were legally under age to go to an adult prison but the justice system now decided to punish them for this when these boys are eighteen or nineteen years old now and have learnt there lesson id understand if they still graffited now but this isnt the case. They all have jobs and are studying at university i personally think you should be going out catching the real problem in this society for example the terroist's rapists murderers rather than three silly boys that made and mistake and have obviously learnt there lesson.

- Alice Green, Croydon

martin, what do you know about 'paint vandalism'? you are clearly someone who sits at home and swallows the rubbish that the media rams down your throat i bet you never actually considered the artistic qualities of 'paint vandalism'. as for making it an 'intimidating atmosphere' im guessing you are referring to the broken window theory which, may i add, the man who's theory it was has now said its floored.
I think sending anyone to prison for graffiti causes more of a problem to society. they go in, come out, cant get a job, sign on, dont have enough money so probably get even more involved in serious crimes...

- Dc Thrush, london england

Here we have another case of BTP milking the facts and the gullible public jumping on the age old "how much it costs". How about thinking about how much it actually costs to bring this minor crime to court... i will tell u. this case would have cost the tax payer approx 600,000 pounds with courts costs lawyers solicitors etc. Now that is a good use of public funds. Graffiti is only an issue because all of you suburbia types try to keep up with the jones' and have nothing to really worry about. Again on friday was a further example of the crime does not fit the punishment.... might as well sell crack and claim u have an addiction and attend those "help classes" and get a more lenient sentence.

- Chris P Duck, london

In the course of my job I spend a lot of time working with the British Transport Police, trying to get something done about paint vandalism. Calling it graffiti gives it a name that it doesn't deserve, it is paint vandalism. The rail network is very large. These people often wear masks or balaclavas to hide their faces. The police can't be everywhere at once. Defacing Trains and Rail property is just the thin end of the wedge. It creates an intimidating atmosphere, encouraging further crime and more destructive vandalism.

To gain access to Rail Property, fences are generally cut or removed, creating a danger especially to small children. I don't see anybody here queuing up to make the front of their houses available for this wrongly called art form. It is not a mural it is paint vandalism, on a par with dogs urinating to mark their territory.

- Martin, Teddington

Who are these ridiculous softies that say, 'they only drew on a train and they were kids?@ It's that sort of rubbish that allows kids to go out and do this in the first place. Where is the respect for othes/ The envirronment? The costs to eeryone for cleaning it up. They (or their darling parents)should be made to pay it all back over the years and do six months or cleaning, painting, etc to rectify the damage caused. I can only assume those on here who advocate a slap on the wrist are somehwat soft in the head themselves. And for worse crimes than this, there should be proper, rigorous sentencing.

- Tj, Bromley, Kent

Growing up in England and taking the train to work, it did not inconvenience me one bit, there was always graffiti there and it didn't threaten me or phase me, all I cared was that the train was on time, when did it become illegal?

- Margaret Money, Belleville,Canada

Prison won't reallt rehab these criminal yobs, though, will it? It would be better if they where sentence to clean up dirty trains for 18 months. Or take care of enile elderly patients. No such reality check as changing an adult diaper, is it?

Or serving food to the homeless. and so on.

I take it from the article and from the comments that these are affluent middle class lads, literate and maybe even quite intelligent.

They'd leard their lesson more if actually made to contribute to society, as oppsed to ruining it.

- Juma, london, uk

Yes we should make all crime pay i.e. if you get caught you should have to pay 'pay back money' to the victims, any physical cost of puting things right, then add all the police time, wages etc, then police fuel used, wear and tear on their cars, infact all time and effort and cost should be factored in right across the board, where humans or animals have lost their health and or lives give them a massive prison sentence right up to life meaning life, if all these perpetrators never know they are doing wrong at any age, then why do they cover their faces or run away, yes i believe that if yoy set out to do bad then you should get everthing you deserve and more, i have no sympathy for these imbeciles that think they can destroy others, their property or defenceless animals, spray all of their families and their possesions and then see how they come crying, bleetin that its not fair blah blah blah, LOCK EM UP, we have had enough of these cowardly morons

- Sean O'Leary, Walthamstow London

excuse me keith price, maybe you should learn to read after all the people in the case got GOOD GCSEs and one got into Kings College London and how would they paint trains if the didn't know how to write??? this is soo craaazy, this is clearly money over peoples lives, somebody who has committed armed robbery only got sentenced to four months less then these boys. Yes someone who was carrrying a GUN with intent to theaten somebody with it and possibly use it has only got a four month longer sentence. Obviously MONEY IS TAKING PRESEDENCE OVER HUMAN LIFE. The 18 month sentences is totally harsh and uncalled for, it should be made illegal to make an example out of people!!!

- Anonymous, south London

Double that...and get them out everyday inc Sundays cleaning it off.

- Dhanraj, basildon

There's a rather corny old phrase, 'a debt to society,' which holds the key to the answer here. Don't send them to jail, that's more expense to us, and an education in serious crime to them: just mortgage them until the debt is paid off. Allocate them work if necessary: but if they gain skills to raise their earning power, their debt to society will be paid off sooner. Lack of responsibility is the cause of problems like this, and the insistence on responsibility is a large part of the answer.

- Mdj E10, london uk

Kieth Price
Losers? when did property matter more than lives? oh no wait it always has if you steal a car you are penalized more than if you kill the person in it.

- Margaret Money, Belleville Canada

WHAT???? Why would children be put in jail over graffiti?
when I left England in 1983 it wasn't a criminal offense to write graffiti and it still isn't in the civilized world shouldn't the police be trying to hunt down the terrorists born and bred in England??
It disgusts me.

- Margaret Money, Belleville Canada

It's vandalism, it's a crime. It delays other people's journeys. This isn't art. Old school in New York maybe but not this tag rubbish. Please don't glorify the idiots by printing their Tags. This further promotes their 'celebrity status'.

- Maysie, London

Sorry Daniel (Croydon); this isn't art, it's pure unmitigated vandalism that should be treated with the utmost severity. In Singapore they would be flogged, but take heart, these poor little 'darlings' will get a nice comfy cell with all the comforts they clearly don't have at home and who knows, they may even get a free 'Art' course thrown in - courteousy of Jilly and Johnny Taxpayer.

- Joannie, London, England

These crimes were commited from over two years ago. Everyone in this case was between the age of 15-17 when they committed the crime. The last recorded offence the BTP had from these people was back in OCTOBER 2007, which is nearly two years ago. You have to consider they were youths when the crime was committed, two of whom who had no previous convictions at all but were sent to jail. These people should have clearly been handed out hefty fines as well as maximum hours of Community Service, simply because the clear fact of how long ago the crime was committed and the age the crimes were committed at. The cost the BTP have given in this case is absolutely rubbish. They add so much more on top of just cleaning the trains which is not necessary. One of the person jailed was in process of joining the Royal Marines, the other one has got an offer from Kings College London to further his eduction and the third person jailed was working full time and kept out of trouble since the case started. These people have been jailed as a deterrent. This is clearly not justice is it? They were young and childish when the crime was committed. In a previous case where the biggest case was brought to Crown Court on a graffiti crew who named them selves as DPM CREW, their damage ran in to millions, but funny enough some how these people have nearly got the same sentence as the people who were involved DPM case. They were MEN aged between 20-26 these people are YOUTHS and made a mistake and jailed

- Laurence, London

Good job- now make them scrub off their scrawl from the trains......

- Barbara, sydney, Australia,

these children all had gcse's levels a-c, and were about to start university in september so i dont feel they were lacking in intelligence. they should have been tried in a youth court as the crimes obviously were committed when they were under 16.

- Ms Mcnulty, wallington

it took the BTP three years, 18 months inside for this, rape you get one year for and stabbing someone in the neck you get 8 months. its unfair. ITS ART

- Daniel Norton, CR0 CROYDON

Kerry - no doubt you'll be happy to see these fools get a slap on the wrist with a wet train ticket. "Property over people" - what a naff slogan. They caused 134k of damage which has had to be paid for by taxpayers and the travelling public; money that could be better used for other little things like housing improvements, hospital equipment, a bit of parkland or even some more transport improvements. It’s a wonderful country, innit.

- Iggy, glad ot be out of london

This is really stupid,your treating these guys as if they've killed someone, all they did was paint a couple of trains when they were way younger they're obviously sorry now and going to uni and stuff to make their lives better and better themselves. Whats the point of sending them into prision when they've admitted that they've done wrong and they're doing something positive with their life, which is better then being unemployed and a burden to the tax payer, instead their going to get jobs and pay their taxes and contribute to society in a positive way, sending them to prison may trigger them to contribute poorly to society and furthermore, its so unfair of people judge these boys when they dont even know them and the circumstances that they have been brought up in. How can you ask for the judge to make the sentence longer, you obviously have no idea about living in south London and the difficulties that people have to go through.

- Anonymous, South London

Kerry,
You are blaming the wrong person.
The judge in this case was right to give these people a three year prison sentence.
The judge in the supermarket murder case was wrong to only give sentences of three years and of eighteen months. Vent your spleen at him and not Keith.

- Andrew, London W1

The question that realy needs to be asked is why did it take the police 3 yrs to catch these guys?

- Kev, London-UK

The law proving once more to be a soft touch. This sort of behaviour should carry a sentence of five years each and, without remission.
T H Leeds

- Thomas Hayes, Leeds UK

Why not charge them a percentage of the damage that they have caused, this can to be paid back to the rail company in installments, it can then be treated like any other debt. In the meantime they can be put on the 'Payback' scheme and clean up graffiti, or would the work be considered too tedious for their human rights.

- Martin, London

I totally disagree with sending these to prison. They should be put into clean up programmes and forced to remove graffiti and litter.

Our city is a disgrace and these people contribute to the mess so they should contribute to the solution. And I dont mean two weeks 'community service' I think 10 years 'community service' !!!

- Steve, London ,UK

So Keith Price, you think it's OK to give these daft kids the same sentence as the Judge gave the supermarket murderer this week, and twice what he gave his girlfriend? of course you will not be teaching them grammar will you, judging by your paragraph.
Property over people, typical little englander stance.

- Kerry, Purley

I think they should be locked up but it's stupid because if jail is full of graffiti gang members then where are the more serious criminals going to go?

- Catherine, London

totaly agree normal people are i think sick to death of this

- C May, biggin hill

The writing is on the wall for these four losers. Let's hope they RE LOCKED AWAY FOR A LONG TIME, AND GET THE CHANCE TO LEARN TO READ AND WRITE AND EVERYTHING

- Keith Price, Luton, England

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