Scrap worship in school, say teachers
Tim Ross, Education Correspondent7 Apr 2009
TEACHERS are calling for the compulsory act of daily worship in schools to be scrapped.
Children should no longer be required to attend Christian prayers when other faiths are present in classrooms, a union conference will be told today.
Secular schools in particular should be exempt, members of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers say, as faith groups have a growing role in education. Muslim and Hindu state schools have opened in London in the last year, while Christian charity the Oasis Trust is expanding its chain of academies.
Delegates at the conference in Liverpool believe a diverse society requires revisions to the 60-year-old law. Gareth Lewis, a physics teacher from Wrexham, is proposing that "a daily act of worship should not be a statutory requirement in a secular school". He said: "Schools should have acts of worship as it's part of the youngsters' education, but the school should decide when, where and how."
The association has dismissed Children's Secretary Ed Balls's decision to keep the terms history and geography in the primary school curriculum after outcry over plans to replace traditional subject divisions.
Deputy general secretary Martin Johnson dismissed the row as "politics, not education" and said the name of the curriculum unit would make no difference to what children learned.
Reader views (40)
I sincerely hope that the law does change so that NO child under the age of 18 is required to attend any religious ceremony in school. And I include C of E schools here too!
It is verging on mental abuse if an adult continues to try to indoctrinate a child, especially a young child, and it is clearly immoral to tell them what to think, especially when it's 'facts' about religion that preachers can only pretend to know are true.
There is no proof (either way) so stop professing stupid religious 'facts' and stick to the vast amount of true knowledge that has plenty of hard evidence to support it. That's what children need to be taught, not religious mumbo jumbo. I don't mean refrain from studying religions, that is ok, but to suggest a child should believe in a given religion is wrong, very wrong.
I think we should, as a society, start thinking about introducing new laws that can protect children from such indoctrination, and that would include perhaps rules on what can be said to a child in church too. That might help those freethinkers amongst us win this battle.
I really worry that religion is going to divide our society in a terrible way with terrible consequences, like racism used to in the dark and distant past.
Lets act now to make our children's and grandchildren's world a happier, safer and friendlier world.
- Will, Woking, UK, 08/05/2009 12:58
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Question. If our children learn nothing about Christianity where will they learn about our societies morals and beliefs? Our moral code and basis for legal system are derived from christian beliefs. The media, government and it seems a large number of parents are no longer willing or able to teach children what is right and wrong, do we now want to take away the last place where morals are taught?
- Mark, London, 08/04/2009 11:10
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Daily Worship in schools should be maintained. The attitude of some parents to the subject of Christian worship is something in wanting. Some parents are not interested in going to church on Sundays so their children are deprived from attending a place of worship and therefore would not have the knowledge of the Christian message. If daily worship was stopped in schools some children would never have this knowledge!
This is made worse by the broadcasting authorities when, as most people are aware in the UK, do not broadcast on television a Sunday service-everything else but that!!!
- Arthur Lincoln, Roeselare, Belgium, 07/04/2009 15:54
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Religion had nothing to do with our democracy in fact"NG.NI" the church was opposed to democratic representation, as the biggest land owners in the country at the time thay viewed it as a threat to there powers and still do,hence thay still have 26 unelected bishops in the house of lords"when did you ever vote for a bishop,or a pope etc".And no body is stopping you believing in anything you like,but what must not be allowed is for believers to force there beliefs on others particularly young impressionable minds,are education system is not intended to promote beliefs.How you can state that non believers etc wont to interfere with the freedom to believe in what you wish is beyond me as believers have and are constantly trying to do just that IE ban books,ban plays,ban certain cartoons etc the blasphemy laws etc medical research IE stem cells,assisted suicide etc,don't you think your being a bit hypocritical? but then religious believers our well known for hypocrisy.And i say again your beliefs are just that a belief,thay are of no more importance than the belief in fairies or the beliefs of members of the flat earth society,but you are welcome to them, just don't expect to gain privileges because of them,in my opinion you have to many privileges any way,and certainly to much influence, especially with nu labour but i suppose Blair needed a direct line after his lies and illegal war that killed 1000s.
- Kev, London-UK, 07/04/2009 15:49
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SUSPENDING PRAYERS IN THE ASSEMBLY TO THE CREATOR OF THE
UNIVERSE, ESPECIALLY THE NIMBLE MINDS OF THE SCHOOL PUPILS,
WON'T SOW THE EUROPEAN CITIZENS ANY PROFITS. EQUALLY
FAITHSCOOLS ARE PUSHING THE LOCAL CIVILIZATION INTO THE
DIRECTION OF SEGREGATION AND APARTHEID; EASY SOLUTION IS
TO INVITE DIFFERENT FAITH PREACHERS TO CONDUCT THE
ASSEMBLIES ACCORDING TO THEIR DESIGNATED WEEK DAYS!
- Mr. Biloo Singh, LONDON.U.K, 07/04/2009 15:47
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The Christian religion also teaches children the very values that have allowed our modern system of democracy.
Then modern day secularists, along with radical muslims and left wing unions try to destroy the system that allows them have freedom to choose thier own beliefs.
- Ng, ni, 07/04/2009 13:50
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To Steve Dale, No i don't think there should be faith schools,thay cannot possibly give a all round education as thay have a hidden agenda IE the promotion of there particular faith and that conflicts with education,they have there beliefs and that is fine but it is only a belief and education is not about promoting belief as if it was a fact,that's not been rigid,we are talking about education.We need a good secular state education for are children first and foremost,then latter in life if thay choose to explore religion/faith there are many establishments to which thay can turn.Religion is divisive we are divided in this country on racial grounds the last thing we need is to add to the divisions with religion,we have religious gangs of all faiths in conflict in certain boroughs now,its a problem in are prisons etc and history has shown us where this will lead if we continue down this path.
- Kev, London-UK, 07/04/2009 13:15
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We get taught about all religions at my school.Because of that,I say that we should not get rid of religion in schools,but that we do not focus just on Christianity.
- H.J.Jones, London UK, 07/04/2009 12:47
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To all those who oppose Christian worship in schools, would you accept that there should be faith schools for those who want them? If not, it seems to me that you are being rigid and inflexible. I wanted my children brought up as Catholics and all of them, I am proud to say, have benefited from it.
In any event, my own experience and that of my four children, is to the effect that teachers are quite capable of indoctrinating children with their own (political|) views, so should we have a ban on that, too?
- Steven Dale, London, England, 07/04/2009 12:31
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Religion in schools does nothing other than brainwash previously open minds before they can think freely for themselves. Without indoctrination of the very young religions would collapse completely, and their supporters know it.
- Steve, London, UK, 07/04/2009 12:17
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Schools are for education, religions are about indoctrination. The Jesuits say 'Give us a child until he's five and he's ours for life'.Muslims understand this and bang it into children's head in madrassas. These are dangerous people.Religion should be banned from all schools.It should not even be an issue for discussion.
- M Wilkinson, London UK, 07/04/2009 11:44
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Teachers today are the biggest shower going. Everyone knows they only go into it for the long holidays. If you ask me this is just another attempt on their parts to wriggle out of doing any real work. I went to a church school and it didn't "indoctrinate" me in any way, nor as far as I'm aware any of my old classmates. I would, however, say that we have all turned out to be more caring people than is the norm. I suspect the vast majority of people who are against church schools didn't go to one themselves so don't really know what they are talking about.
- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx, 07/04/2009 11:17
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I'm afraid Christianity is a dirty word,as is religion generally,and if you look at Christian history it is proper that it is a dirty word.As regards forced worship in schools how on earth can a person be forced to worship!and indeed if Christianity was worth its salt you would not have to force pupils to do it,you would not be able to stop them.All religions claim to be peaceful and teach morals and bring peace but from past examples and present events this is plainly not the case as most people know, and that is why it is shunned.School is a place for education and religion/faith has no place in that at all.
- Kev, London-UK, 07/04/2009 08:14
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Teachers would ban anything it seems. Firstly they would ban exams, after all, they do show parents just how dismal is the teaching that their children receive -
they are, by and large, the product of socialist/marxist/
left wing training colleges and as such wish to undermine everything the rest of us think of as good about Britain and its heritage. Look at the way history is now skewed against us in the way it is 'taught' -
and religious observance has no place in their scheme of things. To use the fact that we now have other religions as well in schools is fatuous. We are a Christian country, other religions can make their own arrangements, outside of our Christian establishments if they do not wish to take part. When will the left wing in this country stop trying to abolish everything British! Other countries preserve their traditions and heritage and are fiercely proud of them. Why must WE be different. Well, we must just defend what is left as hard as we can. Protest vociferously to schools who threaten to undermine our traditions, lobby the governors, better still, get yourself elected as a governor and make a difference! The teaching unions are comprised of bitter, twisted socialists pushing their own agenda. Dont let them win!
- Carver, newark,, 07/04/2009 00:20
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As an employer and vendor, I can state categorically that the people we have hired or done business with who have been of a religious faith have been: a) Honest b) Reliable c) Good at their job d) Polite (at least, after maturing and discovering their faith!) e) Able to maintain a strong relatively strife free family relationship. Of course there have been exceptions, but those who are godless have been a) Dishonest b) Phenomenally selfish and greedy (shockingly so!) c) Lacking in direction or focus. d) Ungrounded. The collapse of this country lies with the following entities: a) New Labour b) Channel 4 television (Endemol in particular) c) The BBC. And all this will soon bite us back. After all, one reaps what one sows.
- Vision Aforethought, UK, 06/04/2009 23:57
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Christanity is NOT a bad word and Christians are NOT behind with the times.
God is NOT a fashion accessory that comes and goes because of people's opinions!
I work in a a Faith school and the children approach me with Questions and views about God and Jesus. Teaching children is not just about foundation subjects but also helping them develop morally and their questioning on life issues......
- Denise Mander, London, 06/04/2009 19:01
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Do not mention who the teachers are just let me guess.
- David., Chertsey.UK., 06/04/2009 17:28
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William of London, thank you for unwittingly confirming my sentiments!
- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 06/04/2009 17:16
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This is a Christian country and Christianity should be taught in ALL schools.
- Vince, London, West London, 06/04/2009 16:44
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It's absurd to waste school time indoctrinating children into religious superstitions.
Concentrate on teaching them to read, write, and do arithmetic; and then to study the history of this country.
'Faith schools' necessarily lead to social division, something we can ill afford.
It's vital that children should learn that you can live a good, honest, ethical life without the aid of any of the religions originating in the Middle East. When they grow out of believing in Father Christmas or their parents' gods, children must not imagine that this means they no longer need to behave decently to other human beings.
- Eric, London, England, 06/04/2009 15:42
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GOD has been thrown out already out of the homes,GOD has Already been thrown out government and the nation.and the latest is so sad for the children finally GOD has been pushed out of the schools.What hope for our kids as the nation continues to slide morally and financially.The kids are our future,and this is the day when Britain said we no longer want GODS blessings and protection anymore over our kids,our families and this country....how sad
- Colin, london, 06/04/2009 15:29
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Kevin Sullivan of Roehampton. Once again you trot out the old accusation of religion being damaging. You might consider that the Christian religion has been a source of enormous good as well. Art, architecture, music, education, philosopy, medicine, literature, spiritual well being, comfort for the dying, comfort for the bereaved, strengthening of morale, cohesion among neighbourhoods and families... the list of benefits to us over 2,000 years have been immense. Of course there has been a downside too; no system of belief could not have; we are only human and fallible. But I would rather live in a Christian society that has a strong belief in the power of religious good than a society that worships money and fame as its gods. And please do try telling Muslims or Jews that their religion has been very damaging. I'm afraid you would not find much tolerance in their reply to you.
And Kev of London - no one is interested in pagans or a - what was it? we will leave that to half baked hippies who have nothing to do but post silly comments incessantly.
- William, London UK, 06/04/2009 15:00
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Yes, scrap it as a compulsory part of the school day. It's a total nonsense in a school that accepts anyone from any faith. What is worship to one faith is by definition misguided nonsense to another. Parents are free to start the day with an act of worship with their children, if that's what they want to do.
Sue - allowing someone religious to pray at break-times is totally different to forcing every student into an "act of worship" which some may see as meaningless and others as contrary to their own deeply held beliefs. I believe in freedom of conscience, which surely must include freedom to pray to a God or gods who may or may not actually exist. It does you and me no harm, so why not?
- Nigel, London, 06/04/2009 14:47
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One of my favourite memories of school in england was singing hymns in the school hall with all the other classes early in the morning,what's better than singing Jerusalem,All things Bright And Beautifull etc as loud as you can,good for the lungs too
- Linda, italy, 06/04/2009 14:31
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Let's choose: wait for increasing crises in society to reach epidemic proportions, particularly amongst the young, before deciding that moral teaching through a Christina faith that has existed in Europe for 2000 years is of fundamental value to our welfare; or insist that Christian teaching should remain at the core of our society and resist those who would use the diversity card for their own anti-clerical and establishment agendas.
- Mike, london, 06/04/2009 14:17
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Surely the UK has more of a druid and animistic heritage than a Christian one? Just depends how far back one chooses to look. In any event, acts of worship should be a private matter, outside of school. School should focus on learning about all religions, with a focus on mutual understanding and tolerance.
- Adam, London, UK, 06/04/2009 13:54
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Oh yes Christian prayers shall be scrapped, but let's not forget if you happen to be a Muslim you will be allowed to pray 5 times a day during school hours. Funny that, I always thought this WAS a Christian country.
- Sue, Orpington, Kent, 06/04/2009 13:51
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Hooray, at last some intelligent noises.
of course state enforced worship must be banned. If those people of faith want to worship whatever idol they want, do it in the privacy of home or their place of worship.
I despair when my kids come home from school full of christian (and other) propaganda. they are made to feel inadequate or foolish because they do not believe in God, or should I say my kids are not delusional.
- Kerry, Purley, 06/04/2009 13:50
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Organised religious teaching ,faith schools, call them what you will, teach the basics of all mainstream religions, tolerence, love and unity. Yet throughout history I can think of no other force, with the possible exception of nationalism, that has wrought more misery and destruction on mankind! Even today Christianty,Islam, Judaism, etc., are hardly shinning examples of tolerance, or, beacons of light in a troubled world, and, certainly on their track record have no moral authority to instruct anyone on how to advance themselves spiritually!
- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 06/04/2009 13:46
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To Kev - How is teaching children to treat others as they would themselves like to be treated, and all the other teachings about caring and reaching out to others which I remember from my church school, abusing their minds?
- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx, 06/04/2009 13:42
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Why send your child to a christian school if you dont believe in the christian faith.
Send them to a different school full stop.
- Baconbuttie, Perth, 06/04/2009 13:41
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We are a secular society and this should be reflected at schools. I would go further and state that faith schools themselves should be banned within the state schooling sector because as a tax payer I resent subsidising the brain-washing of children. No "faiths" should have any power to dictate the way people behave. Moreover, if you look at the history of organised religion it is of the most part lacking in any real form of morality.
- John David, East London, 06/04/2009 13:40
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Whatever else happens in schools, the curriculum should include regard for other's feelings and property, humility and a "do as you would be done by" policy.
Religion, though, should not talk down to but lead the listener to a better - and hopefully more possitive - perspective in dealing with life's ever-present difficulties.
Multiculturalism and diverse opinions are here to stay. And where better to teach mutual understanding across the religious and political divide than in a school?
- Peter Seekings-Foster, Mildenhall, Suffolk., 06/04/2009 13:39
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It would make more sense to have a pagan ceremony, as the theist religions are relatively recent imports to these isles,our heritage is pagan,indeed Christianity evolved from Egyptian pagan mythology.Deborah Hayward how do you come to that conclusion? there is nothing peace full about religion and certainly nothing moral read your history.
- Kev, London-UK, 06/04/2009 13:38
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The English may be Christian in a cultural sense, but religious? I'm English born and bred, but I ceased to be Christian around the time I stopped believing in Santa Claus. The best way to avoid trampling on religious or atheist sensibilities is to have all education secular.
- Dave, London, 06/04/2009 13:04
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Considering the decline in morality in the young I think there should be more religious studies in schools and acts of worship, not less, then maybe we will see a lessening in these horrendous crimes.
- Deborah Hayward, London, 06/04/2009 12:48
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Nonsense . . . daily worship is an integral part of schooling, and should remain so.
This is a Christian based country, and if other faiths have a problem with it, then so be it. Their faiths come second to the national identity of the UK.
All we ever hear are the liberal whingers moaning about offending so called minorities. These minorities accept the primacy of the Christian faith when they come to this country and if they don't like it, then there are plenty of airports and sea terminals to choose from when planning their departure.
- Eoin Mcgreeghan, Derry, NI, 06/04/2009 12:34
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Of course compulsory worship should be scraped completely no matter what faith,faith and education are mutually exclusive,school is about education,for faith to masquerade as education is deceit,and as such is on a par with child abuse,the abuse of a child's mind.
- Kev, London-UK, 06/04/2009 12:04
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With so-called teachers like the above, it's no wonder that this country's education is so pathetic. It is also blatantly obvious, that the teachers and Government are mostly to blame for the lack of skills needed when pupils leave school to start working.
And to cap it all off, these dumbed down teachers want to remove if not destroy Britain's Christian heritage.
- Ralph, GB, 06/04/2009 11:59
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Religious studies certainly have a place in a balanced curriculum, but ceremonies and worship can prove divisive.
- Newman K. Fox, North London, 06/04/2009 11:59
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Morning:
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