Morning:
9°c
Blundering cop collects a fortune
Paul Waugh and Katharine Barney9 Apr 2009
BRITAIN'S blundering anti-terrorism police chief Bob Quick quit today with a six-figure pension deal.
The Met's Assistant Commissioner was forced to resign when he lost the confidence of the Home Secretary.
Mr Quick expressed “deep regret” for revealing details of an operation to swoop on al Qaeda suspects when he was photographed carrying secret papers into a Downing Street meeting.
His mistake meant police raids planned for 2am today had to be hurriedly carried out in public places, putting people at risk.
At the age of 49 Mr Quick will walk away with an index-linked police pension worth £110,000 a year — or £85,000 a year plus a lump sum of about £520,000.
He will also expect to find lucrative work advising both the private and public sectors on security which could give him an extra six-figure income.
His expertise in counter-terror operations will make him a valuable consultant to the organisers of the 2012 London Olympics.
Mr Quick, who earned £170,000 a year, offered his resignation by phone to the chief executive of the Metropolitan Police Authority, Catherine Crawford, at 7.30am. She then called Mayor Boris Johnson, who is chairman of the authority.
The Mayor said: “Bob understands fully that the security breach which occurred yesterday was a serious issue for which he has taken personal responsibility.” He insisted that there had been “no witch hunt”.
John Yates, the Assistant Met Commissioner who led the “cash-for-honours” probe, was immediately appointed head of counter-terrorism.
The departure of Britain's top anti-terrorism officer came after a series of conversations between Met Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson and the Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, who refused to give Mr Quick her backing.
Mr Quick triggered his own downfall when he was photographed in Downing Street carrying a briefing paper for the Prime Minister about the raids.
Within minutes, images of the document were sent to news organisations across the world and displayed on the internet.
The Evening Standard has learned that the Home Secretary met Mr Quick in her office yesterday afternoon and made clear her “serious concerns”.
Ms Smith then informed Sir Paul that she felt the counter-terror chief's position was in doubt, although she stressed that it was ultimately his decision.
The Home Secretary said in a statement today that although the operation was successful Mr Quick had “felt that his position was untenable”. Ms Smith today welcomed the appointment of Mr Yates as they held their first meeting in his new post.
Mr Quick issued a statement saying: “I have today offered my resignation in the knowledge that my action could have compromised a major counter-terrorism operation.
“I deeply regret the disruption caused to colleagues undertaking the operation and remain grateful for the way in which they adapted quickly and professionally to a revised timescale.”
Sir Paul issued a statement saying: “I hold Bob in the highest regard, as a friend and colleague, and that opinion has not changed. He has accepted that he made a serious error and that has led to his resignation this morning.”
Gordon Brown today paid tribute to Mr Quick. “I have spoken to Bob Quick this morning and I have thanked him for his years of service. He has apologised for what went wrong yesterday.”
Mr Quick was appointed to the post last year but his tenure has been marked by controversy. He was forced to apologise after suggesting there was a Tory plot to oust him over the police raid on MP Damian Green's Commons office.
Reader views (71)
I thought the government wanted to stop reward for failure? Why is it OK for the police to receive substantial pensions and the bankers not?
- Tony, Germany, 14/04/2009 08:11
Report abuse
He paid money into his pension and now he's drawing it. That's normal isn't it?
On a separate note, this man was actually very good at his job and the British state has lost a man with a huge amount of experience in a very important part of modern policing - counter-terrorism. His hounding by the media and his resultant resignation could endanger the future of this country's safety, far more so than pulling forward a terrorist swoop by 12 hours
- Tom A, London, 14/04/2009 00:35
Report abuse
He took the heat of his boss and collected his enhanced pension before the rules changed as part of EU doctrine.
- William, Forest Hill Surrey, 13/04/2009 23:34
Report abuse
Lauren
I don't think Mr Quick was looking to leave his job just yet - he made a mistake - he did the honorable thing and immediately resigned - but I don't think the mistake was deliberate so I'm not sure your scam idea works here. As a result of his age and the years he has worked for the Police Force he was entitled to retire.
Now that the economy is going belly up why is everyone blaming those in public service (police, nurses, teachers, etc) for having reasonable pensions? They have been forced for years to take lower salary increases than the equivalent in the private sector at the same time as being forced to pay in a relatively high proportion of their income into a pension (leaving them with less money in their pockets to buy property or other goods). Those that have worked hard and been promoted have a good salary but when compared with senior staff in the private sector their salary was always lower than the private sector. The fact that many in the private sector have either made no pension provision or had a pension that has suffered in the economy or for other reasons this is no reason to blame public sector workers - blame yourself/boss (if no pension provision), blame the bankers/investors/Government for problems with existing pensions but do not blame public sector workers who have had little choice about their pension provision and who, for once, have the luck to be in a better position than many in the private sector (I work in the private sector).
- Andy, London, 12/04/2009 15:19
Report abuse
Well... that's what I call a "just" outcome 
- Liminal, London, 12/04/2009 12:56
Report abuse
Whatever the rights and wrongs of his errors and the subsequent media reporting, none of which I condone, remember that this man paid in 11.5% of his paypacket into his pension fund over 30 years of his working life . Unlike many government workers, as a policeman he bought that pension and took a portion of it as a lump sum as he is entitled to, which reduces his monthly payments.
- Pedro, Morecambe, UK, 12/04/2009 10:17
Report abuse
Guess you could say he was Quick off the mark : just grab the pension and run!
- Johnboy Of Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, England, 12/04/2009 02:45
Report abuse
NIce little trick. We all do mistake, but these guys in government are playing musical chair with their jobs.
One resigns get a nice bonus and pension, one take his place, resign get a nice little bonus and pension. How many ministers, advisers from the deceitful Labour have we had in the last 12y. They all get nice little bonus for being kick out or resigning, and usually we pick the bill.
This is a scam that has been going on for to long.
We need reforms. Apparently this is the plan until the next election. Like 12y wasn't enough to sort it out. For sure the government and it cronies were a lot quicker in installing cctv, raising taxes, criminalizing every body, and bailing out the bankers. How surprising this guy resigned. I will do the same for that package.
Just corruption every where.
- Lauren, London UK, 11/04/2009 23:20
Report abuse
Was this a deliberate (so-called) mistake to gain early retirement considering the alleged six-figure pension deal?
Why should high level Public Servants be allowed to get away with such huge ‘Golden Hand Shakes’ at Taxpayers Expense?
Signed
Carl Barron
Chairman of agpcuk
Action Group for the Protection of Communities UK
- Carl Barron, Christchurch, Dorset, 11/04/2009 22:00
Report abuse
Well now there's a surprise. Now I know where I am going wrong! Instead of working like an idiot paying into my ever decreasing private pension I shall just be the idiot, get a high ranking "non-job" in Government and the pension is sorted out for me. Ker-ching!!!
- Gareth, Farnborough, Hampshire, 11/04/2009 21:45
Report abuse
Les
Yes - it is related to final salary - and I suspect the top end of each of the Armed Forces earn the equivalent or similar to Mr Quick. A quick google search shows that RN Commodores earn approximately £100,000 and no doubt the Controller of the Navy earns even more which would give an equivalent pension to Mr Quick.
- Andy, London, 11/04/2009 11:27
Report abuse
I notice now that the picture in this artical showing SECRET PAPERS have been blacked out .... the horse has bolted thanks to the press who should of known better not to print open secret papers and told the man incharge he has dropped a clanger.... but they did'nt , who needs enemies when the press pack are in town?.
Wall have ears and cameras have big lenses, and if I was the government I would not have the press in Downing Street 24/7.
- John., Scarborough N.Yorks U.K., 11/04/2009 08:39
Report abuse
This man was a mediocre. why the pension reward for failure? Why would anyone hire him to advise on anything other than lollipop duties?
What is wrong with you British? why do you give these fools jobs and why construct such a cosy reward system?
On the other hand you get what you deserve.
- Gordon, mexico, mexico, 10/04/2009 23:13
Report abuse
If any one is out there listening bring back the expert who was sidelined because he was too good and that is John Grieve, an expert in terrorism that this country surely needs in this our hour of need ala Winston Churchill.
- Roy Barnard, New York USA, 10/04/2009 23:00
Report abuse
I wonder Andy London do our soldiers get the same great pensions for doing hard and dangerous jobs??
- Les Jones, Girona Spain, 10/04/2009 15:57
Report abuse
According to what I read here, we can let all these policemen go at age 50 and above and they will be able , to live comfortably on the product of their 11% contribution for the rest of their lives without further support from the tax payer. Let them go and free up opportunities for the younger members of the force to make a contribution before they forget their briefcase.
- Ray, London, 10/04/2009 15:11
Report abuse
I think Bob Quick did a very honourable thing by resiging immediately he had been told by the Home Secretary that she had lost confidence in him. It's a great shame that this lady (the so called home secretary) does not do the same thing, as the country lost confidence in her a long while ago, even way before this saga over her expenses.
- Don Elwin, Landeleau France, 10/04/2009 15:11
Report abuse
I just think maybe he quit too fast. I mean, he's a respected governor, and a very experienced police officer. He did make a huge mistake, but wouldn't it have been better to train the new gyu who's name escapes me who has not much experience of Anti-Terrorism?
- Juma, london, uk, 10/04/2009 14:44
Report abuse
For half a million quid and a hundred thousand a year pension
I would accept personal responsibility for anything, including the fall of the Roman Empire.
- Ciccio, Toronto, Canada., 10/04/2009 14:11
Report abuse
How the money paid in by the police is used by the government - whether to pay current pensioners or future pensioners is irrelevant - the police all pay in 11% of their salary into the scheme and, if invested wisely (always a bit doubtful these days) would give them a good pension - they have no choice in the matter the money is taken by the government each pay day.
The reason the Police and Forces personnel are allowed to retire at 50 is because they do such a physical and, at times, dangerous job. These risks are, on the whole, made in the general public's interest - most people are unwilling to take these risks so those that do are given incentives to join - one of them being able to early retirement. Just because times are hard there is no need to take it out on those in the public sector who have been forced to pay into pension schemes.
I am torn about the resignation of Mr Quick - he made an extremely foolish and potentially dangerous error, however, he has a lot of experience in Anti-Terrorism which will now be lost to this country (his replacement has no experience in Anti-Terrorism). Should photographers be allowed into Downing Street when the potential for them to photograph documents so clearly could put the country at risk?
- Andy, London, 10/04/2009 12:59
Report abuse
this is A REWARD for being incompetent. ask your self how many eyes have seen these documents before getting out of the car and they loyal to our country? as for him paying for his pension, his 11% could not have amassed this large sum,without the public purses help, secondly i had to pay back tax allowance because i claimed before i was 65 the REAL RETIREMENT AGE. to quote Animal Farm we are all equal but some are more equal
- John Patrick Green, nottingham, 10/04/2009 12:47
Report abuse
Let's get it really straight about Government Pensions.
The Police pay in 11% of their salary to help pay for existing Police Pensioners.
This amount doesn't pay the Pensioners, and is be topped up by the Taxpayer to the tune of around 25% (TaxPayers alliance figures)
If the Police Pension was able to pay it's way without Taxpayer assistance, no-one would be complaining.
However, it can't, and if a Private scheme were affected in this way, the Taxpayer would pay a maximum of £26,000 a year, and impose a much later retirement age.
If Bob Quick were getting only £26,000 a year instead of £100,000, the Polices' Contributions might actually be able to pay the Pensioners without Taxpayer assistance !
- Cap, London, 10/04/2009 12:19
Report abuse
If the figures you quote for Mr Quick's pension are correct, there doesn't seem to be any reduction to take into account "early retirement" which most schemes impose because the pension will be paid for longer. This puts Mr Quick in the same league as Sir Fred.......the public really cannot afford to shoulder the burden of these unrealistic pensions.
- Ab, london, 10/04/2009 07:52
Report abuse
Let's clear up this business about police pensions once and for all .As others have said ,he has paid into his pension fund for over thirty years . As long as you have done thirty years you can retire and receive your pension .
I have known officers retire at 47 years old as they were in the police cadets from the age of 16 !!
This officer would of paid 11% of his wages every month into his pension .As for a ' lump sum' .This isn't some sort of bonus . Most officers 'commute' the maximum amount they can when they retire --this gives them a tax free amount and then a REDUCED monthly pension .
At least he has earnt it over a thirty year period - not like some of these bankers that have gambled your money (unsuccessfully ! )and walked away with bonuses well in excess of the sums mentioned in this article .
- Nigel, France, 10/04/2009 00:04
Report abuse
This incident is not without precedent; several cabinet ministers have been photographed walking into Downing St carrying exposed notes and briefings. Quick should have been aware of this and taken appropriate precautions.
Had a junior aide done this he/she would be facing prosecution, not a gold plated pay-off.
There is no excuse for this blunder.
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 09/04/2009 21:52
Report abuse
Each and every one of us, sleep soundly in bed at night, safe in the knowledge, that decent, honest and hardworking people like AC Bob Quick are doing their job.
I think he as been honourable, offering to step down but if I was in charge, I would have refused his offer and brought him a briefcase.
The police service across this country have personnel that do a grand job, that face dangers, and that make a difference everyday. Yes, sometimes they get it wrong, some are no good but by heck, the place would be far worst without them.
Maybe, instead of paying him his pension, he could have a civilian role at £170,000 a year as a special advisor to the Olympics.
We can not waste the talents of a highly respected man like him.
- John Kirby, Crouch End, Islington, North London, 09/04/2009 20:40
Report abuse
Now come on everybody - if you had to resign from work would you expect to lose your pension entitlement? Losing your job is sufficient is it not?
- Tj, London, 09/04/2009 19:57
Report abuse
I guess they didn't have any manila folders in the
office. We have no hope when people at the top are
so stupid.
- Callison, USA, 09/04/2009 19:30
Report abuse
I agree with 'Tony of Hythe' why should he be able to collect his pension at the age of 49, though to be honest maybe he deserves it so early, he looks more like 59, if that's what policing at top level is I will stick to my more mundane work!
- Annie, Devon, 09/04/2009 19:26
Report abuse
To those calling for journalists to be removed/arrested, be very careful what you wish for - remove journalists and very soon you will know what a "security risk" is.
- Wills, Soton, 09/04/2009 18:59
Report abuse
When I have visited London from the provinces I have taken my Children to Downing street. There is a railing barrier and security box preventing access that we had even in the hight of IRA activity in the 1970s.
To get into this "private" location you need to have a pass and accredition. Some of the visitors to number 10 are "spooks". Why do we permit the press to photograph these persons. What would happen if a photographer with a big lens took pictures into number 10, and captured even more sensitive information. I am sorry but somebody should be called to account over this..It is simply not good enough
- Bryan, Rugeley, 09/04/2009 18:57
Report abuse
People who resign should not be allowed the perks and pension until they are 65 and not be allowed to enjoy the benefits from them.
- Bill Williams, Bagnoles France, 09/04/2009 18:55
Report abuse
it would appear the rewards for screwing up are mighty.
where have i been all my life, mostly getting it right for minimal return.
and i thought it was the meek that were supposed to inherit the world
- M.O'Brien, london.uk, 09/04/2009 18:40
Report abuse
If he resigned he should collect no pension until he is 65.
- Overtaxed, Farnham UK, 09/04/2009 18:32
Report abuse
Hear, hear, Tony of Sidcup. However, resignations don't usually happen so quickly - it takes time to agree pension arrangements and any other pay-offs. This all looks very suspicious to me. Couldn't have been a set up to show Ms Smith in a better light, or to take the pressure off her, could it?
- Pat, East Kent UK, 09/04/2009 18:05
Report abuse
perhaps he should have covered the files when he got out of the car at number ten,that was his only error, and he has paid the price. why shouldnt he get his pension,,he paid for it over the years,not the share holders.if you have any complaints about the pension in the police service,why dont you join..thank you.
- Ken, paris,france, 09/04/2009 18:03
Report abuse
No. Not more reward for poor performance. This sets such a bad precedent for gullible young people. Do a bad job and get rewarded handsomely! Where's the incentive to do things properly??
- Raymond, Poole, 09/04/2009 17:35
Report abuse
I cannot understand why people such as this in the public sector, MPs etc are entitled to draw their pension at the age of fifty. As the pension is paid out of the public purse it would be fairer if they had to wait to the normal state pension age. Also there is no reason to pay the pension if someone continues to be paid by the state as a "consultant" that really is eating your cake and having it!
- Francis, Welwyn UK, 09/04/2009 17:34
Report abuse
What he did was crass, but is my memory playing tricks on me, or did Lady Bathplug (Jacqui Smith) also not get caught sashaying into a meeting at No 10 with a top secret file on view a year or so ago?
If so, what a pity she didn't do what Mr Quick did and resign. It would have solved a lot of problems.
- Graham, Ilford Essex, 09/04/2009 17:28
Report abuse
makes you wonder, blundering,I would call it plundering for cash!!
- Phelps Robert, bussiere poitevine 87320 france, 09/04/2009 17:16
Report abuse
He has resigned why should there be compensation and why can he draw a pension now when he is only 49??
- Tony Johnson, Hythe UK, 09/04/2009 17:11
Report abuse
De he resign for reasons of integrity or did he resign because he was a labour stooge who did as he was told and took the Kings Shilling.
As more of these overpromoted buffoons are exposed the more we understand the extent of "payola" in the labour party and amongst its cronies.
- Martin Ross, London, 09/04/2009 17:05
Report abuse
Tell me this is a joke? Senior policeman screws up in front of Ten Downing Street causing premature implementation of anti-terrorist exercise. Recognises error and realises his time is up. Praised for volunteering to resign and according to this newspaper picks up £85K per year pension and 500K (tax free?) cash sum. Is this payable at age 50? or before if you are a policeman?
This man is no fool; we should not let him go. We need people who can figure out deals like this. Makes the bankers look dull!
- Ray, London, 09/04/2009 17:03
Report abuse
I understand it is now illegal to photograph a police Officer in this country.Perhaps the journalists that took the pictures need to be informed.
- Neil Harrison, London,England, 09/04/2009 17:02
Report abuse
Mr Quick was I imagine driven from a secure underground carpark at the Yard. On route he was swatting up to brief the PM and Home secretary. When he alighted from his vehicle he was inside Downing street, outside number 10. Not by any means a public place. The public are held back at whitehall. Who authorised photographers to be inside this private place. A criminal investigation under the Data protection act should be instigated against the photographer and his agency/paper. The circulation of this photograph was a disgrace. A Good man has had his career wrecked.
In regards to his Pension he has more than 30 yrs Police service. He is over 50 yrs of age, and like me entitled to retire with a full pension. There is absolutely no blemish on this persons character whatsoever. He is a man of complete honour and integrety who realised his error and immediately admitted his guilt. Boris should be ashamed for accepting his resignation.
Perhaps the whitehall mandarins can reconsider access to the press to Downing street, because I would imagine besides senior police and politicians there would have been high ranking members of the british and perhaps foreign intellegence service....The whole debacle is a DISGRACE....He should be immediately reinstated with a letter of apology.....
- Bryan, Rugeley, 09/04/2009 16:54
Report abuse
I see he will get a 6 figure pension this along with his other business should see him ok for funds for rest of his life. Why do these people still get their massive pensions when they mess up?
- Mike, London England, 09/04/2009 16:47
Report abuse
So the media have found another human pin cushion.
Today has seen more disgraceful scenes of self-righteous and yet utterly false indignation from the left-wing media to allow this Labour regime off the hook.
And now the focus is on the fact that he actually has a pension. What do the media want? To strip him of a career's worth of good service for one mistake?
It is the media that are the security risk to this country. Get the parasites and the low-life camera operators out of Downing Street; NOW!
Men of honour like Mr. Quick take appropriate action and quit.
Meanwhile, the media is again intentionally distracting public attention away from a Home Secretary who is not fit for purpose and should have quit weeks ago. The left wing conspiracy continues...
- Tangomike, Kensington, London, 09/04/2009 16:10
Report abuse
Should M.P's resign for their shor comings as this man did ?
They have not got the guts.
- Bernard Parke, GUILDFORD, 09/04/2009 15:57
Report abuse
Should M.P's resign for their shor comings as this man did ?
They have not got the guts.
- Bernard Parke, GUILDFORD, 09/04/2009 15:57
Report abuse
Failure being rewarded again.
- Mick, London, England, 09/04/2009 15:08
Report abuse
Bob Quick did the right thing, he made a terrible error of judgement and is paying the price with the rest of his police career and will probably only be remembered for this. Incidentally "Alan of Carlisle" after Bob Quick joined the police 30 years ago and as a police officer he has fully served his time and is entitled to retire and take the pension into which he not you has paid into.
- Howard, London, UK, 09/04/2009 15:06
Report abuse
Very unkind headline. This 'blundering cop' has no doubt prevented many attrocities. His mistake is regrettable, but he has done the honourable thing, unlike our politicians who have no sense of shame.
- Beatriz, London, 09/04/2009 14:59
Report abuse
Two down, Sir Ian and now Bob, but still several more Blair/Smith/Livingtsone Labour supporting senior officers to be exposed to the public and got rid of. Now that Bob has departed I wonder how long it will take for the Damian Green affair to be publicly declared null and void and the matter closed. After all Bobs retirement places him away from any disciplne matters that may have arisen over his 'invasion of Parliament'.
- Pete, South of England, 09/04/2009 14:55
Report abuse
I blame this on the plastic carrier bag ban!
- Ranter, Maidstone, UK, 09/04/2009 14:42
Report abuse
The mistake made by Quick was serious but should be placed in context.
Quick was not on the public streets but in Downing Street which should be a secure area. If the journalists camped outside are seen as a security risk - which this episode suggests they must be - then they should not be allowed there.
And has Quick definitely resigned or has he been paid off and if so how much? Surely a wiser judgement would have been have retained this man's expertise and not put him out to grass at the public's expense.
- M D, cardiff UK, 09/04/2009 14:27
Report abuse
Will he get a full pension ?
- Gourmet, Hove England, 09/04/2009 12:23
Report abuse
AT LAST AN HONEST UPRIGHT MAN IN BRITISH PUBLIC LIFE. PITY THE HOME SECRETARY AND OTHER POLITICIANS COULD NOT TAKE LESSONS FROM HIM. HE PLACES HIS HONOUR ABOVE ANY OTHER CONSIDERATION.
- Alan Green, Woodford Green, 09/04/2009 12:21
Report abuse
'Forced'? By whom?
- Chuck Unsworth, London, 09/04/2009 10:28
Report abuse
No doubt his taxi business will keep him going. I would be interested to hear if he keeps his pension>
- Mike, London England, 09/04/2009 10:26
Report abuse
It is astonishing Quick progressed as high as he did which reflects badly on the standards at the Met. Quick alligned himself with the labour party and was not acting in the best interests of the force or country when he arrested the MP Green. The Home Secretary was slavish in her praise for Quick's professionalism when he has proven he is anything but.
- Ralph, London, England, 09/04/2009 10:21
Report abuse
Jacqui Smith lost confidence.............pot, kettle, black........
- Vikki, Bristol, 09/04/2009 10:13
Report abuse
If the photographers camped outside No 10 are seen as a security risk perhaps they should all be removed or arrested as well?
- Patrick, Dalston, 09/04/2009 10:02
Report abuse
I see that Bob was Quick to fall on his own sword.
- Nick J, UK, 09/04/2009 10:02
Report abuse
What an extreme blunder by this person. However, that said, how refreshing is it to see someone accept blame and quit their role because of their actions. Politicians and Bank CEO's please take note and more than a slight hint.
- Steve, London, 09/04/2009 09:37
Report abuse
Great a victory for the terrorists. We have now lost someone with decades of experience in the field of counter terrorism, who made a mistake whilst is a rush.
- Sandy, London, 09/04/2009 09:32
Report abuse
Too right his position was untenable, I can't believe the stupidity of the man.
- Enough Greed And Sleaze, London, 09/04/2009 09:25
Report abuse
So how much is he going to be paid for failure? If he has resigned, then he should not get any severence pay, but then again he won't need it because he'll be able to live happily ever after on his massive pension provide by us mere mortals. Or is he subject to a different set of rules like MP's?
- Alan, carlisle uk, 09/04/2009 09:24
Report abuse
Good riddance, and take your politics with you.
- Roger, Surrey, 09/04/2009 09:22
Report abuse
Jacqui said Mr Quick felt his position was untenable. What a shame she doesn't feel the same way and do the honourable thing.
- Tony Williams, Sidcup Kent, 09/04/2009 09:16
Report abuse
At least Mr.Quick resigned and admits his mistake,and takes full responsibility for that mistake.
Unlike the majority of our politicians and bankers who seem unaware of that taking responsibility for their errors means resigning and not taking huge payouts.
- Grumpy As Hell, wimbledon, 09/04/2009 09:11
Report abuse
I wish MPs would do the honourable thing when they get it wrong, but then the rules always seem in there favour.
- David, London, 09/04/2009 09:07
Report abuse
