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Frank is incorrect, and for his benefit I will quote directly - this is a comprehension test, Frank:

Rule 178: "Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked."

No wonder the roads are so dangerous if even those motorists who bother to READ the Highway Code can't even understand it.

You CAN be fined for occupying a cyclist box at a red light, and I know someone this happened to. You don't get fined for doing something legal. The stricture about stopping at the second line if you can't stop at the first is designed to emphasise the greater severity of the offence of occupying a junction or blocking a pedestrian crossing, out of recognition of the incompetence or inconsideration of drivers too gormless to manage to stop even at pensioner speed.

Anyone that knows this turn knows that it is a gentle curve which most motor vehicles accelerate into, taking it at about 35mph plus. It's impossible for a cyclist to overtake in these circumstances, even if you are Chris Boardman. What quite obviously happened here is that the lorry disregarded Rule 182 (stay behind cyclists when approaching a left turn and do not attempt to overtake). Also Rule 163 (give cyclists the same room as cars when overtaking).

- Reg, London, 15/04/2009 13:39
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Meyrem was a friend of mine and had been a cyclist for years.I often used to urge her because of the heavy traffic at elephant. As part of the regeneration in the area, the roundabout in question is going to be removed and made into a straight junction. Too late for dear Meyrem - such a shock, and she wasnt a novice, used to road as she drive, and wore protective equipment eg helmet, reflective jacket,but what use is that against a lorry? I will never encourage anyone to bike in this area until the roads are improved eg cycle lanes. I do see some cyclists who look very unsafe and i think cycling proficiency should be recommended and made readily available.
In the meantime, I will miss Meyrem and her kind nature. My thoughts and prayers are will her girls and husband that they will somehow be able to have the strenght to survive this horrific and sudden loss. Life is so precious and fragile.

- Louise, Walworth, SE London, 15/04/2009 01:19
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I know the lady who was killed and I know that she was a very experienced cyclist. I find it quite difficult to believe that she would have done anything stupid - but I wasn't there and did not see what happened.

Her death is a really tragedy and I hope that this will make TFL take a closer look at the roundabout in question (which is awful - I am certainly to scared to attempt it on a bike).

- Gym Girl, London, 14/04/2009 16:58
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"As a daily cyclist....I have NEVER seen a cyclist attempt to undertake a vehicle like this"

Hmm, the London you cycle in must be a different London from the one I cycle in then. The classic sight is the cyclist undertaking a whole line of left-signalling traffic (usually in a left-turn only lane with no provision for bikes to go straight on). Even if the cyclist manages to wobble thru, they are then poorly situated for being seen by oncoming RIGHT-turning traffic. The message seems to be getting through that this is an especially bad move if the left-turning vehicle is a heavy one, but sadly it seems not universally. (Note--this is a world away from the scenario of the vehicle OVERtaking the cyclist THEN turning left.)

I'm also not impressed at the "You can't trust these witnesses" comment. Witnesses are witnesses, you either use them as evidence in incident investigations or don't bother at all. Unless there's reason to believe there's a problem with them IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, how about approaching it in good faith.

I would agree with CCTV combined with better enforcement for the Elephant though. While in 10 yrs of riding most days thru it I've never seen an accident like the one in question, there are numerous instances of bad driving, parking (!!) etc.--incidentally mostly done by car drivers (many I suspect without the correct paperwork) not HGV drivers.

- Liz, London, UK, 14/04/2009 12:57
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Bikers and also other drivers are often fooled by the fact that the tractor has to swing well wide of the roundabout because the trailer is going to cut in towards the center. When one sees the tractor running (at least a lane) wide, it appears that there is plenty of room for a bike. I once lost a front fender for making that same mistake. The smaller the roundabout, the more pronounced the deviation the tractor must take, and the more confusing it is to another rider or driver. Whereas an 8' wide single unit truck can turn in a 12' wide lane, an 8' wide tractor trailer can take up 28' of the width of the roadway. I am sure how it works, having seen a large tire come from "nowhere" to eat my fender, but I am not sure that they teach this to new drivers, or test that you know it. When the cab is 20 feet away from the side of the roundabout, it appears that there is a lot of room, where there may be, and in this case was, none at all when the back end came past.Next time you see a tractor turn well within a lane, and the trailer run over the sidewalk,be glad you were no closer.

- Harrison, Haymarket VA USA, 13/04/2009 22:37
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Seems that the unfortunate woman didn't comply with Rule 73 of the current Highway Code concerning not undertaking HGVs when they are turning left.

Reg has obviously not read Rule 178 regarding stopping at advanced stop lines. If a car/lorry/bus can't stop before the first stop line when the lights turn red it must stop before the second one. Which means it is legal to stop in the area marked for cyclists, but should be avoided if possible.

With a RRP of only £2.50 I suggests every road user (especially cyclists) reads the Highway Code. It would prevent more road deaths and serious injuries if the contents were read and applied.

- Frank, Portsmouth, 13/04/2009 22:03
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Much as i have sympathy for anyone dying on our roads, can comeone explain why car and motorbike drivers have to pass a test to be on the road, but any idiot can buy a bike and drive away, without a clue of the highway code, road safety or even general common sense? I have seen these morons sail past me through red traffic lights , wearing earphones and merrily singing along with their ipods, yet I have yet to see a single one stopped by the police. Perhaps the use of a bike should carry a mandatory purchase of accident insurance along with it.

- Lynn, London, 13/04/2009 16:49
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Just to point out there is a cycle route that runs around the elephant and castle takes longer but by far safest option i use it all the time without fail, but if you have to use the roundabouts, follow this rule if the wheel on a vehicle is bigger than you stay away from it wait for it to clear ahead and wear high vis always.

- Frank, london, 13/04/2009 14:55
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I cycle through the elephant every day - but NEVER around the roundabouts. There is a cycle friendly 'ring road' around the Elephant - it takes longer but as the saying goes 'better 5 min late down here than 50 years early up there!'.

My sympathy to the family and the driver. Several times a year I speak to cyclists who have obviously just bought a brand new bike to commute. The cycle shops never ask them is they know how to ride safely in traffic. The one bit of advice I always give them is to give taxis, buses and lorries a lot of space and *NEVER* go to the left of them. . .

- Fc, London UK, 13/04/2009 14:00
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The sooner cyclists learn that THEY MUST GIVE WAY to Buses and Lorries the sooner they will not find themselves being killed on the roads. Frankly there are a number of selfish cyclists who think they are kings of the road - they shoot red lights, speed through pedestrian crossings and on one occassion I remeber one blocking the path of a bus in Oxford Street just like a big kid.

And then when one is killed everyone else gets the blaim and if its an Artic Bus Gilligan drags out the same old story about buses which are in fact mainly used in countries which have large numbers of cyclists!!

The Elephant & Castle has always been a complex and dangerous juction with it having six approach roads. Opposition leaders on the GLA have begged Boris to visit this junction but he does not want to know. Well Boris will you visit this junction with other party leaders?

The points about railings are valid as a pedestrian I often find how dangerous they are and in places like Queen Victoria Street they are designed to FORCE pedestrians to use a subway, although how someone in a wheelchair is meant to do this is beyond me, perhaps they have to be adapted like Darleks who can manage stairs?

As for the cyclist who used the subways you were obviously told off for riding your bike through them. Subways are for pedestrians and you are meant to wheel them through and not pose a danger to pedestrians!!

- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex, 12/04/2009 15:16
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London is such a beautiful city that it should be more
bike friendly. With the absence of hills and a beautiful
weather cycling should be encouraged. A day spent in
London causes my eyes to water and itch due to the polluted
air. With more bikes on the streets the air will be improved.

Please put more bike lanes!

Annie

- Annie, Montreal, Canada, 12/04/2009 12:12
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was she crushed against the railings? why do we have so much street furniture? without the railings could she have had an escape route? terrible shame

- Aesir, SE1, 11/04/2009 10:23
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I notice in the picture shown in this sad story the road lining could of been better. It shows white chevron lines to the right of the road and narrowing down the left. If the lining was switched to the left you could create a cycle lane the is room here?.
As for the Lady who died its so sad please R.I.P..

- John., Scarborough N.Yorks U.K., 11/04/2009 08:52
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Sad story but cyclists should obey the Highway Code, and not undertake. It is difficult enough to spot cyclists that undertake you when driving, let alone I imagine high up in a lorry.

- Vee, Bedfordshire, 10/04/2009 21:42
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This is terribly Tragic and keeps Happening with HGV's.

Solution Ban them from Cities and Towns,if you must allow them in to deliver to the big Stores then they must have a Permit and only Deliver between 4am - 9.00am and only on two Roads in to the City. A Limit on Lorry Size up to 3Tonnes to be allowed in Cities and Towns. All Motor Traffic Limited to a 20Mph Limit in Cities and Residential Areas. All HGV's to be Limited to only Driving on Major Roads and Motorways,no Tolls for HGV's on MWays to encourage them not to Drive on Minor Roads.

Good Safe Cycling Infrastructure to be Introduced like Segregated Cycle Paths everwhere. Bar Motorists from Driving through Cities,no Direct Routes for Motorists through Cities and Towns. More Traffic free Public Areas in Cities and Towns. Restore the Streets to the People. Look to the Netherlands they have the Best Infrastructure so far. Stop being Pro Motorist think Cyclist and Pedestrian. Motor Ways are for Motorists, Cities and Towns are for People.

- John Power, Dublin,Ireland, 10/04/2009 15:08
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Witnesses cannot always be believed in these cases. Previously at criminal trials, witnesses have given evidence against cyclists victims only to be embarrassed by clear CCTV evidence showing the exact contrary.

There is a level of irrational cyclist-hatred in certain sectors of society that surely must now be addressed by legislation. Junctions like Elephant & Castle must be covered with CCTV from every angle, including overheads to prevent lorries blocking off views. The technology is cheap enough now, so let's do it. What law-abiding citizen would argue?

As a daily cyclist I am frustrated to see red lights shot, but I have NEVER seen a cyclist attempt to undertake a vehicle like this, and I do not believe this happened in this case.

I have yet to see or hear of a single lorry driver ever get a ticket for sitting in a cyclist box at red lights, although this is the sight which confronts me every single day at the junction near where I live. Until I do, I'm reluctant to take advice from lorry drivers who haven't fitted their vehicles with full visibility mirrors, whatever the pathetic "legal requirements" of the petroleum lobby UK are.

My condolences to the family - please ignore any "lectures" from the smoke-bellowing noise-polluting bullies of the road.

- Reg, London, 10/04/2009 15:06
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I used to cycle past every day, but I used the underground foot path to pass the roundabout in the elephant and castle, I was always told off by the police. But I am really glad now that I followed my instincts and ignored them.

- A, London, 10/04/2009 15:03
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How tragic for her children - and traumatic for the lorry driver: my sympathy to both.

As a casual observation: nearly all motorists know how to ride a bike having learned as a child, however many cyclists do not know how to drive car and almost none know how to drive a truck. I have an HGV2 which I've used little, but I found one the hardest parts was adapting to the height of the vehicle - it really is quite hard to see 'downwards' as well as all round: this is not something that ever occurred to me as a cyclist or motorist. The Swiss require cyclists to have numberplates and licenses like any other wheeled road-user: the UK should introduce the same to give gravitas to their status. Road testing centres should have a safe area where road-users try out other types of vehicle, to understand the problems that each has to encounter, then perhaps senseless tragedies like this could be avoided.

- Roz, France, 10/04/2009 13:25
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Being a truck driver, I know only too well the problems faced by drivers of LGVs. Tragic as this accident is, it's a wonder that far more don't happen on the streets of London.
When stopped at traffic lights, especially in the rush hour, I am often surrounded by a dozen or so cyclists and motor-cyclists who seem oblivious of the dangers of being so close to a large truck. I have six mirrors (2 offside and 4 nearside) and with the best will in the world, it is physically impossible to look at all of them at the same time and still watch where you are going! They, also, cause two blind spots.
Cyclists MUST be made more aware of the dangers of being too close to a truck. For heaven's sake, they can't say they didn't see it! Then you have the lunatics on motorbikes who pass on the wrong side of islands. Why? Just to save a few seconds!
Each type of road-user must give some thought to the other person's problems. Driving and riding on our congested, pot-holed streets is a very serious business.
I feel terribly sad for the young woman and her family and also for the truck driver. A terrible tragedy.

- Ken Graham, Tadworth, 10/04/2009 01:02
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These awful things continue to happen to cyclists, but not to motorcyclists: why? Surely mandatory training is the difference.

- Mdj E10, london uk, 10/04/2009 00:31
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meyrem is a vey specail person and i dont think it was her fault but i cannt really say nothink because i wasn't there. but all i know is that meyrem would not take any silly action to put her life in to danger. because she lived a life of joy for her daughters no matter what happen she did the best to keep her daughters happy.
lorrys should hav extra mirrows put on to see der blind sot and council should stop narrowing roads.

- Unknown, east london, 09/04/2009 22:57
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When will cyclists ever learn that they should never come up on the near side of any vehicle??? Sorry but this is plain common sense....

- Abf, London, 09/04/2009 21:16
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Its not the width of the roads that is a problem it is the murderous guard railings that turn our streets into cattle-pens and trap cyclists and pedestrians like a vice.

- Thomas, London, 09/04/2009 20:56
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I agree with Mr Port about the narrowing of lanes. I don't think it has a bearing with this terible accident but the aerial photo shows a vehicle width about 5 feet has been marked off by the central reservation which was not part of the original road markings. This has been combined with road markings showing the congestion zone "C". Taking off 5 feet has made the traffic lanes narrower and forced vehicles closer for no reason as far as I can see. Its one of lifes mysteries that just when they might be needed most such as here there are no cycle lanes but on uncomplicated straight roads they are there in abundance.

- Jack Spratt, Richmond, England, 09/04/2009 20:13
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Looking at the image this appears to be a death not caused by the design of the road, or due to fault of the driver but simply a cyclist putting themselves in a dangerous position. The calls for changes on the roads and vehicle design need to be backed up by an ounce of common sense from cyclists.

(Note that I worked as a cycle courier for several years and never had a single accident)

- Chris, London, 09/04/2009 20:05
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It is sad that a young lady has died in a tragic way, but as per the comments left by Mr. Port, I believe that TfL needs to wake-up and stop being so motorcar-unfriendly. Roads are being narrowed as pavements are randomly widened, and there seems very little sense, method, or purpose for a lot of the recent modifications being made to London’s roads. Also, cyclists flagrantly lack road-etiquette and common-sense, and frequently and randomly weave in-between other vehicles. I have seen so many near misses due to cyclists, and many cyclist friends and colleagues admit that cyclists in London have a very ‘different’ approach to road-manner in comparison with those who cycle outside of the Capital: they don’t care about other users. Perhaps the fact that the driver is automatically considered to be at fault by the system encourages the view of self-authority adopted by cyclists today. Consequently, my heart also goes out to the driver of the lorry who shall be faced with unnecessary paperwork, questioning, and general hassle over the next few months, let alone undue guilt for the accident - luckily there were witnesses who saw that it was not the lorry-driver's fault.

- Dr. N. Sivathasan, London, UK, 09/04/2009 19:07
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Cycling in London is so dangerous,there have to be more cycle lanes..God Bless the poor woman and her family

- Jean, London England, 09/04/2009 18:54
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From what the witnesses said it seems like she under-took the lorry as it was turning. I had a similar incident while driving my car. The cyclist asked why I didn't see him in my mirrors and he seemed rather surprised when I said I was keeping an eye on the car in front and to my right. Undertaking moving traffic at traffic lights and on bends is a very silly thing to do..and I say that as a cyclist too.

- Mark H, London England, 09/04/2009 17:46
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Accidents will continue to happen as long as TFL and the borough councils continue their obsession with narrowing the roads all over the capital. There is barely enough space for motor vehicles with the continuing road closures, and never ending road works, never mind cyclists trying to weave their way through too.
Better road planning with advise from people who use them, would help the situation enormously and put a stop to these terrible accidents from happening again in the future. My thoughts are with the family.

- Mr S.Port, London, 09/04/2009 16:48
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What an awful thing to happen. My condolences to all her family.

- Lorraine, London, 09/04/2009 15:07
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