• Can I have your number please, officer?
• Identity numbers must be on show at all times

Reader views (64)

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This is the 21st centrury. Haven't the authorities cottoned on to 'iron on' transfers, instead of antique pin badges? Just issue sheets of the things to every officer, then they can make sure that every piece of their uniform/kit is clearly marked. Or is it that they want to hide behind the excuse when it's convenient to do so?

- Bob J, Halesowen, UK, 01/12/2009 10:14
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Isn't it now time to accept that the British police service is just like any other in Europe? There is nothing particularly superior about its performance, and the old notion of policing of consent is becoming a thing of the past.

- Mark, Venice, Italy, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Memo to would-be criminals: just get yourself a police uniform (I understand that isn't too difficult to do)and pretend to be a policeman - no ID required. Seriously, this starts at the top. The weakest apology for a Home Secretary in history and the police think they can get away with murder - and do.

- Pat, East Kent UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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@Rob, London.

Yup, the police were abused. Protesters shouted "shame on you" and "murderers" - which seemed appropriate under the circumstances.

Besides, if they weren't identifying themselves then there's no reason to assume they were police - no ID, no respect. If a man incorrectly dressed a bit like a policeman hits you - how do you know he's not just a random thug? Self-defence is then the game, not deferential obeying of orders...

- David Freehug, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Sadly public sympathy for police has vanished due to 1). abandoning the streets to thugs and vandals (2). becoming a service reacting after the event rather than a force working to prevent crime and (3). deliberate persecution of soft targets for trivial matters such as petty motoring offences. They have also morphed into a politically correct nightmare driving around in their hybrid cars not to mention the huge pay and pension benefits awarded for their risky jobs which they no longer do as they hide behind H&S at every opportunity. Its not the average coppers fault but they are hardly the brightest and no doubt all enjoy the easy life they find themselves in and why rock the boat.

- Stuz Graz, Wimbledon, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Why does everyone think its now ok to constantly knock the police? Who in their right mind would do the job when on a random Wedneday you have to stand in front of a bank and have a spitting abusive crowd try to attack you, and instead of people saying thanks for the help, all you get is further abuse. I work in the City, and the police did a great job that day, leave them alone.

- Gavin, London, UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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But that's the point, its not a disciplined force and has no leadership - only management.

- Peter Haldane, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Pat - "The police get away with murder". That is just a ridiculous statement. You cant really suggest pushing someone over is murder! If it was proven to be directly related, which is unlikely as he had a known heart defect, then it would be involuntary manslaughter.
David - You seem to be suggesting that people attack the police. You cant compare a policeman (in a riot) against a thug in a town centre on a weekend. I was at the protests, and somehow managed not to get "attacked" by a policeman. Even the women all over the news has admitted she shoved the policement prior to being hit. That seems reasonable to me.

- Gavin, London, UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Not to worry mates...
Sharia law is about solve all your whining about "bad cops" so relax"there my British friends..
You will love it..

- Don, Arizona, U.S., 01/12/2009 09:14
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Rob, London, yes it really does matter! Perhaps you could also tell me how 4,000 demonstrators, could abuse 5000 policemen? This is not the opinion of some 'wooly hat' but someone who is very concerned at our ever diminishing rights as citizens, illustrated by this officer totally ignoring an order from his chief. I find either his arrogance, or, ignorance very worrying, and, indicative of the massive reduction in confidence Londoners have in the Met.

- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 01/12/2009 09:14
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Anyone noticed the picture of the officer at G20 and outside the Houses of Parliament is one and the same person.

- Anon, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Surely it should be a (gross) disciplinary offence to go on duty without displaying ID numbers?

- Sally P, London, UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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I wish all you trouble makers would leave my Police Force alone.I am paying for them and they are doing an excellent job,can't you go to Brussels where all your troubles are being generated.

- David., Chertsey.UK., 01/12/2009 09:14
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The Met are apparently the law unto themselves.

- Austen, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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phony bliar is to blame for the acceleration of the politicisation of the police, and the police are caught in the middle between the Government and the public, with matters made worse by the stupid so-called 'hate' crimes.
Personally, I have never had a problem with the police; where I live in London they are visible, polite and professional.

- Ralph, GB, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Good idea - while we're on the subject why can't we have identification on the balaclavas and hoodies worn by the demonstrators so that we can identify them??

- Julie Elmes, Slough UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Sorry re the earlier post, I typed a little too fast, hence the mistakes.

For those that were not there and just watched it on TV ,
It was just rent a mob day out, open drug taking and abusing police along with throwing objects at the Police , their one objective on the day was to cause trouble and damage.

This country is becoming a total joke with all the human rights campainers,

Again the girl that was hit deserved it, anyone that got a clump from the police deserved it,
We are not an old eastern european state where the Police attack anyone. The did a great job of keeping a lid on the trouble.

I think it is a pity the Police do not use aggression more often , perhaps this country would be in a better state re the knife / gang and drug crimes we have.

So what if the Police officer did not want to be Identified. Why should he be , when while doing his job under verbal and phisical abuse why should he be identified when he feels the need to retaliate.

- Rob, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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If the person shown in the photo with his epaulettes displayed (AB42) at the Tamil demo, is the same as the one who attacked the protestor at the post G20 demo, what is he doing on duty? I thought he was suspended. Maybe he has a twin brother? Am I the only Londoner who is fed up with the police throwing their weight around and making it up as they go along?

- Mrs Jackson, London England, 01/12/2009 09:14
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When my father was in the force during the miners strikes they were advised not to where their numbers as they were pinned on in those days and could be used to cause injury if ripped off. If they are still using the same standard issue then maybe they need to rethink this. But I do think this is a touch of mountain/molehill. The officer is clearly visible so if there's an issue it can be dealt with.

- Julie, london, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Forgetting to wear the ID number is one thing. Refusing to let someone know what it is on request is quite another!

- Nigel, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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So if our police are so awful why are the protesters in Parliament Square still allowed to protest about an issue that has nothing to do with the UK. The nice looking bobby in the picture should be on the streets protecting me from muggers and cyclists.

- Bj, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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this all brings back bad memoriea of the wapping newspaper
dispute where certain police officers could not be identified by lack of there numbers nothing has changed.

- David Salter, torrox spain, 01/12/2009 09:14
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David from Chertsey

We all pay for our police service and frankly they are not behaving themselves at the moment, do you honestly think that you are the only person with a right to a point of view. I pay as much tax as most people in London do, and I want them to abide by the rule of law, be accountable, and admit when they make mistakes. This week I have seen a highly politicised case dropped against a senior politician whose home was raided at dawn on the instructions of the government. This is in the same week that photo's emerge of policemen hitting women with truncheons, and members of uniformed police without ID numbers.This came in teh same week as the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster in which a senior South Yorkshire policeman admitted they were responsible for the tradegy, and yet no one will be held accountable.
As the headline states - what are they hiding and why?
Admit it - the police in this country are out of control at the moment and seem to be totally unaccountable. Someone has to speak out about it otherwise we will all sooner or later be getting visits at dawn from unidentified police. It needs to be sorted now.

- Phil, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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David in Chertsey. Our citizens have been robbed by the politicians and their global banking elite paymasters, sent to fight in the illegal and bogus war on terror. Our liberties, regulations and standards that are forefathers worked hard to implement have been dismantled. Yet you support the very same police who have willingly been complicit in supporting the destruction and oppression of this country. If you like facism so much then why don't you move to another country where you can live under a corrupt dictatorship? There is no place for it Britain.

- Ben, London, UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Bad enough to see them conceal their numbers but unbelievable to see them with masks up to their eyes.
It looks as if there is a hard core within the Met who consider themselves to be above the law that they are sworn to defend. The danger is that they actually believe that they have the right to take the law into their own hands, and when that happens we really do have a problem.

- George, Cambridge UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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if it is the way that complaints are handled that forces officers to not show there numbers, then it is the disciplinary process that needs reviewing

In the same way as police riot tactics that leave an office in a position were he feels the need to strike with his baton it should be the tactics that are reviewed.

It isnt rocket science

- Not Exactly A Looney Lefty!, The real world, 01/12/2009 09:14
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If police officers are forced to wear their identification numbers then I assume the tree huggers (or indeed any other form of protestor, group or sport fan) should be forced to do the same? At least the police had the courage to show their faces, which is more than the "Clowns of the Apocalypse" (or something similar) who found bravery behind masks. Why expect the police to play by the rules when you have none yourself?
When will the moronic PC (not Police Constable) brigade get a grip and realise if they hadn't been demonstrating in the first place, there wouldn't have been any need for the police to contain them and they wouldn't have got hurt.
I find it quite ironic the Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights group Liberty should state that "uniformed officers must display their identity numbers at all times"...whatever next? she'll be instisting on ID cards for all!
Well done to the police. Any trouble at the G20 Summit was kept to a minimum and Londoners were allowed to go about their business pretty much as usual.

- Carl, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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its easy, all you have to do is identify the policeman with a big red circle on his shoulder................

- Jonny, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Does this mean that anyone on the streets must also show identity/name badges?

Our police have a difficult enough job, do they really need this aggro? When they are presumed innocent until proved guilty as a default then is the time to insist on identitification

- Mh, London UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Not displaying numbers should be considered so serious that it's a sacking offence with loss of pension. That'd make them think twice and put paid to the usual get out, when they're (rarely) caught bang to rights of resigning to to ill health.

- Mike, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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I do not condone civil violence either from the state or the public sector However I do take exception to the minority of the public who expect to castigate the "excessive" state reaction to public order disturbance when carrying out their duty to restrain the violent disorder having to identify themselves when their public opposition are allowed to use whatever disguise they feel needed to avoid showing their own identity and escape punishment . Peaceful demonstration is our right as a democracy orchasrated violent demonstration is not acceptable and any ligitimate "peaceful" demonstrator should remember this and abandon the their actions as soon as they are aware that the violant element are "using" tham as cover for anarchy .

- Dennis De Jersey, EnglandHereford, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Agreed that identifying numbers should be visible, even when wearing the reflective jackets, but not a sacking offence.

The loudest screams of foul are coming from those who will, at such a demonstration, cover up themselves to avoid reconition, and damage/destroy the property of law abiding citizens/organisations, which they should be imprisoned for and made to make good the damage they did or helped do.

Problem, Gordon made sure this couldn't happen, he canceled prison building projects!

- Hugh, Middx, 01/12/2009 09:14
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The reason for the Police hiding their identity is down to the way that complaints against individual officers are handled.
If a complaint is made, no matter how trivial or obviously vexatious it will be investigated in miniscule detail and in a way that does not provide the safeguards or right to reply that a member of the public being investigated by Police would have.
Any complaint of crimes against political correctness are bound to have an adverse effect on an individual officer's career, regardless of their substance. Take a look at the track record of Sir Ian Bliar, former met commissioner; he would hang his own officers out to dry at the drop of a hat, especially if the complainant was black or gay, regardless of whether or not that was relevant to the complaint.
The other reason is the way that these events are recorded by the press. Carefully framed shots and devious edits that rarely put incidents into proper context and are often manipulated to deliberately put them out of context.
In a nutshell, they remove their numbers as a result of the top-down rot and erosion of standards and decency that has plagued this country for the last ten years or so.

- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Does it really matter, the City protests the police were nothing but abused by rent a mob protestors,
I for one think the Police did a great job that day,
and for the jobeless lady that travelled up to London on here Giro that got a clump. Too bad in London to cause trouble and abuse the police , you got what you deserved

- Rob, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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MET commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson has not been in the police a few days only, he has seen this abuse by officer constantly before. The hiding of identity by officers must have been tacitly approved all along under the nose of the commissioner. I spent 10 years in the British Army and no one would are walk outside in uniform without a headdress let alone without a badge of rank.

- Paul, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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When we had that chat by the nice local bobby at school, we were told that a policeman should always identify himself and show his warrant card when requested. In those days, policing was 'by consent'.

A policeman who deliberately hides his ID should be arrested and charged with impersonating a police officer because the consent aspect has disappeared. If we cannot trust an individual policemen, then the police organisation should protect its own culture by removing that particular policeman from the streets. If the police organisation will not, and protects its own, then that organisation has failed and needs to be treated with contempt as it no longer acts for the public, but has started acting for the state.

These are serious matters. And I don't write this as a tree-hugger, but as an overweight middle aged accountant.

- George, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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The Metropolitan Police Service still fail to understand what is expected of them, just look at this narrative;

A Scotland Yard spokesman said;
"The problem is when the officers change their uniforms and forget to put on their shoulder badges. This was probably the case here."
"The officer did make his numbers visible when instructed by a senior officer."

So, the officer did NOT display his numbers, WAS asked three times by a photographer but failed to display them, also refused to identify himself THEN put the numbers on when ordered to do so by a senior officer.

So, this was not a case of forgetting to put on the numbers when he changed uniform at all, was it Scotland Yard spokesman?

To retain the trust and respect of the public, the police need to act in a disciplined and professional manner. Failure to obey a direct order from Sir Paul Stephenson, especially in the light of recent events relating to the filming and photographing of police, must result in disciplinary action if only to show that the police are not out of control.

- Manny Goldstein, London, UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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If we didn't have the police force defending us against all the low-lifes, anarchists and troublemakers that comprise the majority of the people coming to protest meetings like this, where would we, the public be, without their defence? Can anyone imagine what it must have felt like to be a police officer, to get up that morning and go into London not knowing the extent of violence, aggravation and abuse that you will be facing. And imagine how worried their partners and family must have been for their well-being. They deserve our support as without them undertaking assignments like this there would be anarchy.

- John, Bickley, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Sorry Rob, but until you can string a coherent (let alone literate) sentence together you'e not likely to be taken seriously. And labelling every protestor "rent-a-mob" is just immature. "Big man hit small woman" = "she deserved it"? I think that says a lot more about you than about her.

- Gc, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Quote: Miss Jones, also a member of the Metropolitan Police Authority, added: "It shows that there is something systemically wrong within the Met that officers think they can openly disobey orders and get away with it.

It goes even further than that Miss Jones; only yesterday I witnessed a police officer from Marylebone Police Station at the Southwark Crown Court, attempt to pervert the course of justice by with-holding true facts on a case he is involved in etc; there seems to be no control over what they can do, and can say; without the fear of any recriminations from their police chiefs etc.

Slowly but surely; the Metropolitan Police, and British Justice in general, is fast losing the respect of the British people that witness these acts committed by serving officers.

Those police officers that resort to deceptive, criminal, and fraudulent tactics; know full well what they are doing; and they know that the average member of the public cannot challenge them at all; they only clean up their acts when their superior officers force them to do it; and not before.

There are so many miscarriages of justice today; and innocent people jailed; due to police falsifying statements and accounts etc; and with-holding true facts from the Jury and the British Courts system; just to convict and close cases anyway they can.

This often lets the real guilty go free; and no concern for the innocent jailed at all.

This is real life in London today; beware the police etc.

- Mickyinlondon, london, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Yes it does matter Rob. Like they say "if you have nothing to hide....". Police must act WITHIN the law, they are not above it.

- Chris, Rochester, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Paul (below) is quite right. The Met are in danger of becoming, and perhaps worse, being seen, as an undiscplined rabble. Sir Paul needs to ensure his officers comply with Parliament's and so the people's wish: wear identification at all times. The Met cannot flout this requirement. If an officer does not comply then it is in breach of what we people wish.

- Rob, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Fair enough, the Police should display their number. Similarly, demonstrators/protesters should not be allowed to cover their faces in any manner.

- Carl, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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I have lost much respect for the police over the years. When I was a kid they had respect and authority in my eyes. Now many but not all hide in their cars, hide their indentity and have lost touch with the very people they are supposed to serve. At the first sign of any problem they close ranks and are a bit like a secret society. Sure they have a tough job but they choose the career, are well trained and well paid. The police are like their polictical masters, out of touch with what concerns the public.
Oh yes and let nots forget the policeman being investigated over the heart attack guy, he sees himself on TV and has a panic attack. Then he goes on the sick!
After Hillsborough in 1989 a guy called David Duckenfield conveniently retired early choosing not to admit his actions led to the deaths of many people.
Stand up and be counted is what I say, lets see what the Police are really made of.

- Graham, Bromley, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Nothing new in this they have been doing it for years at other demos or protests.
Another old trick was for a team of cops to all wear the same number.
Always remeber this is now a Police FORCE as opposed to the Police Service it used to be.
Maggie Thatchers Stazi honed to perfection by Blair and macBroon

- Kedge, marlboro wilts, 01/12/2009 09:14
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If this is such a fascist state why were the protesters allowed to march in the first place?

Anyone can march and make their voices heard and the police will allow them and assure their safety.

However those who choose to abuse the privilege of protest and use it as an excuse to attack the police verbally and physically deserve everything that comes their way.

It is not the police who make policy in this country it is the politicians. And the politicians in charge currently have managed to alienate the indigenous populace to great affect.

I am just as frustrated with this government as anyone else. I will not however, vent that frustration on a soft target like the police.

PS - You cannot have a fascist state if there is a socialist government in place as we have. It is an oxymoron.

- Frank, Home Counties, England., 01/12/2009 09:14
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how many people always wear their company ID card visibly? I bet the police have a much higher percentage who do so...

- Bob Jones, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Now that this 'policeman' has been clearly identified from his photographs do not simply suspend him but sack him now with loss of all his pension rights no matter waht his career record is. He is as much a thug and criminal as those serving time inside are and as such must be treated the same. As for forgetting to display his badge number its as much an excuse as G.Brown is pretending to be a leader!

- Mike, London England, 01/12/2009 09:14
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in tye army this sort of "minor" violation is dealt with harshly and so mostly does not happen. the rules are there for a reason. the police must be identifiable and accountable

- Stephen, london, 01/12/2009 09:14
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How about firing repeat offenders?

As for the slippery slope, well lad, we're just about to hit the bottom of that...

- Trunk, US, 01/12/2009 09:14
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If they dont have a number they are impersonating a Police officer which is a criminal offence...

- Michael C, london uk, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Showing ID numbers 'where provided' sounds devilishly and decidedly ambiguous, and just more of the old, expected and entrenched dubiously duplicitous PC word-smithing that is soooo typical of this habitually slovenly and loutish McLabour regime.

After the Blair 'NuLabour twins' it's time to smarten-up and sharpen-up, Stephenson.
And fast!

- Dave, Cumbria, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Its not a question of nly rank andfile it should apply to all ranks including the chief constable ,after all they give the orders.
one of the basic problems is that inspctors and above are conerted into political persons as the ambition to be promoted increases and indeed many are freemasons, we were always taught yu could notbe identified with any organisation which would be used against yu as a sign of favortism.
th back stabbing within the poice service is now out of control

- R.Horne, lima peru, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Good for the police.

- Alison, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Wouldn't it be just so much easier for the police, in a reversal of conventional thinking, if each member of the public was numbered (and biometrically registered) and constantly photographed by universal CCTV/Google monitoring -- with an exception for the police on both counts (no numbers and no photographs, thank you). You can see their point of view.

- Bloke, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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If police officers do not want to be identified by their collar number - simple! SACK THEM ON THE SPOT.

JOE PUBLIC IS SICK TO DEATH OF THE POLICE STATE THAT IS BEING WRAPPED AROUND THEIR NECKS AT EVERY TURN.

- Reuben Camara, Morecambe UK, 01/12/2009 09:14
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can anyone explain to me why there is one rule for the police and another for everyone else. someone needs to get a grip on the met police and the city of london police. for one thing, there shouldnt be two police forces in london -- its a waste of money and if "security" is the principal issue, then haveing two police forces does not make sense. secondly, the police need to remeber who they work for: it isnt the home secretary, it isnt the commissioner, it isnt the mayor of london -- but the people of london. the sooner they realise that and start behaving the better.

- Josh, london, 01/12/2009 09:14
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""I work in the City, and the police did a great job that day, leave them alone"".

Hear hear!

- Haskey, London SE1, 01/12/2009 09:14
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"Does this mean that anyone on the streets must also show identity/name badges?" - Mh, London UK"

What a ridiculous point of view. The police are law enforcement officials not random members of the public and need to be recognised and identified by members of the public that they serve when on duty.

- John David, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Welcome to the end of democracy, hello to the start of our police state! The government wants to spend 20 BILLION pounds of OUR money on an ID card that doesn't fulfill any of the criteria they've put forward, but DOES allow us all to be listed, tracked and ultimately CONTROLLED, yet allows the police to get away with thuggery and violence by covering up their ID's. Joined up thinking if you go back to the Stasi, a very bad idea for 21st century Britain! They'll be making it an offence to photograph the police next.......

- Bobby Smith, surrey, 01/12/2009 09:14
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I thought it was now against the law to photograph the police. The G20 protests rather underline why this should not be the case

- Ap, Bristol, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Not really the crime of the century, if you ask me, but nice to see that old stirrer Shami Chakrabarti is sticking her oar in usual.

- D Woodstock, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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Please stick to the question?.
My answer is "YES" the police should be punished for not displaying there numbers on there uniform, they are the police who we the public pay for so what have they got to hide?.

- John., Scarborough N.Yorks U.K., 01/12/2009 09:14
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Its frustrating being a serving Met officer to see senior police officers jump on yet another band-wagon such as this. Officers are issued with two pairs of epaulttes meant for possibly 5 items of uniform. On such events as the G20 protest officers could be warned at the last moment to change items of uniform and it is easy to forget which ones have the epaulettes on. When it's busy, the last I'm going to do is check if my epaulettes are where they should be. Add to this the fact that there aren't enough epaulettes in stores to supply everyone, let alone the identification numbers, the fact that they are extremely flimsy and regularly become damaged by seat belts and other items of uniform continually being put on and taken off and I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. I sincerely hope that all 40,000 odd of serving Met officers apply to their local stores for a couple of extra pairs of epaulettes together with the associated numbers and fixings because the resultant chaos as orders for 160.000 epaulettes and 800,000 numbers and fixings will bring the already chaotic Met Police Stores to a grinding halt and show up our so-called leadership for exactly what it is; shallow, gutless and totally out of touch.

- Ian, London, 01/12/2009 09:14
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