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My apologies to Paddy, Belfast, if you were offended etc; my roots are also Irish; and I know British enforcement well etc; the association I made was in the main; about Police forces using Violence against people on demonstrations or marches etc; in this case the example was bloody Sunday; but it could also have been the miners strike just as easily etc; and what happens when peaceful gatherings of any kind take place; and the thug or gang mentality of authority takes over etc.

Yes it was the Parachute Regiment on Bloody Sunday, everyone knows that etc; but if it had not been them; it would have been another government agency that would have done the job etc.

We both know that the British Government has used every tactic know to man; to suppress rebellion in the Empire, as well as the Irish demands for freedom etc; even Winston Churchill sent his best secret agents to Ireland to wipe out the fledgling rebellion; but instead his very best agents got wiped out instead etc.

Lets not forget the Indians shot dead as well; in British crowd control methods; be they Army or Police; remember Churchill also used the Army against miners once.

None of this detracts from the status quo; The British used the Irish situation to train their own forces in modern crowd control; both the British army and the British police learned much from the Irish situation etc; a perfect training ground etc.

Bloody Sunday was just an example I used; I could have used the miners strike etc.

- Mickyinlondon, london, 14/05/2009 01:15
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How many of the poeple who post here are cops or work for police departments ? Come on, let`s have some honesty here.

- Clive Allen, Brighton, UK, 14/05/2009 00:29
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Dear Sue; I know horses do not understand the law or even the British legal system; let alone the man that actually rides him into battle etc; you should learn to read between the lines, and try to comprehend a cynical association between a dumb horse and a not so dumb police officer etc; the point being both are trained to handle crowd control and hostility etc; if not the horse; at least the police riot squads should be trained etc; the cynical part being that the police are trained; as well as those dumb horses etc.

- Mickyinlondon, london, 13/05/2009 23:11
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All Coppers Are ...

- Barry, woking, surrey, UK, 13/05/2009 21:40
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Oh Gawd, as usual we have the moronic ranters and little Englanders out in force. Why are people who protest "soap sodgers" or "hippies", why is it OK to confront them with water cannon and rubber bullets? Maybe we should live in a police state, then watch as Sarah, Martin or Sue have their homes raided and their families dragged off because the "police" had run out of soap dodgers and hippies to harass! Oh there would be some squealing, but it would be too late, your freedoms would have gone for good.
legitimate, even violent protest is always going to be with us, without it you will not have change. Change never comes from above, it is only gained by those at the bottom struggling.

- Kerry, Purley, 13/05/2009 15:19
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This is a total non story. The TSG are a unit that deals with the most challenging people and situations - of course they are going to get complained about. In the current "Human Rights" culture the career criminals and unpleasent characters the TSG often have to arrest are more than willing to put in complaints to muddy the waters - this is a clear fact. If you're in a unit that deals with violent situations and people and therefore end up having to use force, it is simple maths that you will therefore get more complaints. Would people rather the police not have a unit that is highly trained and there to help the ordinary beat officers with violent and dangerous events? And then what?

- H Morgan, London, 13/05/2009 14:54
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The Metropolitan Police Service do a difficult and dangerous job and the general public realise this, and support them in their efforts whether local policing in London or taking the lead in national groups who deal with issues such as anti-terror.

What the general public find so difficult to accept is items such as;
-MPS Management Board - two of six police permanent, the rest "Acting" ie temporary
-Repeated premature public statements later found to be wrong, e.g. Jean de Menezes, G-20 and so forth
-Lack of discipline, self-control and professionalism of TSG just as with predecessor
-Police involvement in politics, for example, anti-terror officers used against Damian Green and a civil servant regardiong leaks
-Bob Quick and four other most senior anti-terror officers resign after accusations of incompetence, failure to work with the Commissioner, abuse of expenses, improper relations with female staff, issuing false information etc.

People are entitled to expect the items above to be swiftly resolved if the respect and trust of the public are to be regained, rather like MP's really

- Manny Goldstein, London, UK, 13/05/2009 14:24
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Max Clifford's scheduler must be pretty full.

- Maurits Van Eijck, Billericay, UK, 13/05/2009 14:05
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'Ranter' there is no need to confirm that the police are not doing their job, for whatever reasons, we already know that! I repeat, the public want a police force/service that does what it is supposed to do, which is to police, and, keep the public safe. No political bias, no thugs, no hiding identity numbers, etc., and, of course a presence on the streets. Are we really asking to much?

- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 13/05/2009 13:55
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MickeyinLondon - what has Bloddy Sunday got to do with the point you are trying to make. No shots were fired by the Police at G20 - by either side - and it was the British Army who were involved in Derry and not the police....and definietly not the Met Police for that matter. Is this another one of your one-eyed left-leaning misconceptions or are you living in some sort of fantasy world? You will find that the police in the UK are trained in crowd control - including what is an appropriate response in the face of provocation.

- Offended Paddy, Belfast, 13/05/2009 13:46
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Ranter: Again I totally agree with you.
MickeyinLondon: you obviously have no idea whatsoever about policing and how it works!
MickeyinLondon says:
"I have noticed that their horses are calm and law abiding; that is until they get the gee-up to charge crowds by the man on top of the horse." It's a horse mickeyinlondon, it doesn't understand law-abiding. You really do need to get out more!

- Sue, Orpington, Kent, 13/05/2009 13:19
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An interesting observation on European Police Forces: Sue.

The French, and Italians are a good examples; when trouble arrives on the scene; their Police depart the scene.

As to police facing extreme provocation from hostile crowds that don’t wash very often; it would be a good idea to train police officers like they train their horses; to get used to the work they are expected to do etc; I have noticed that their horses are calm and law abiding; that is until they get the gee-up to charge crowds by the man on top of the horse.

I think all police officers should get some training in normal crowd control; not the normal Irish bloody Sunday type of crowd control; that never worked even in Ireland.

Still we live and learn as we go along.

- Mickyinlondon, london, 13/05/2009 12:29
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The police have to sometimes use force, it has to be reasonable and proportionate given the circumstances. Sometimes they have to use force in circumstances where people are not being compliant in the course of being arrested for example. The reason you don't see many police officers on general patrol Kevin Sullivan is because of the creation of specialist squads to deal with government targets and the bureacracy involved in processing prisoners within a creaking criminal justice system which seems to mitigate against the police and in favour of lawyers who now almost completely control the system. In addition, how many police officers do you think are being deployed on the Tamil demonstrations in Central London on a daily basis? How many outside parliament, outside emabssy's that could be targets and outside other high profile locations such as the Abbey. How many are deployed at football matches and other sporting events at weekends, plus all the other demonstrations, marches and other protests that occur almost every weekend. That is where your police have gone, replaced by expensive and almost completely useless PCSOs. Gordon Brown, the prime mentalist wants the police to be at the beck and call of the public late at night, walk them home if they feel nervous. Crazy. If that is how his mind works in relation to modern policing what chance have any of us got.

- Ranter, Maidstone, UK, 13/05/2009 12:27
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Some of you need to take time to read the article before commenting:
"The claims were made before the allegations of brutality at the G20 protests last month"

- Tom, The City, 13/05/2009 12:19
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They treated the countryside alliance which mostly consisted of elderly and retired with the same level of violence. Yeah there were some hippy types but they were ok and not violent. It was the idiot anarchists. Also if you look at how many trouble makers there were, well they were the minority. They let them smash RBS up, the only bank not boarded up, as an excuse to have some fun. It was all provovation. They are good at it. There are some real morons in the police now. Not saying they all are. For instance an old lady two doors down from me had bogus council workers come and fleece her. The police came and knocked on doors for witnesses. When they came to my door and asked me if i'd seen anything, which I replied no, the officer walked straight passed me entering my home and started looking around my front room. I was appalled. They are always trying to nick someone for the hell of it. I told him to leave but he gave me a look as if to say do you want to be nicked sir. I'm not a villain just a normal working bloke. He did not even seem interested in the job in hand which was to look for the people who committed the crime. But no he was looking for another one.

- Adam, bucks, 13/05/2009 12:08
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I do not think your co-respondents get it! The Police are public servants, they are there to protect 'joe public' not beat them up, or shoot them! I could walk up, and, down Putney High Street all day, and, not see one policeman. That surely tells us that they are not doing the job the public pays them to do, which of course is policing, and, keeping the public safe!

- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 13/05/2009 11:55
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Here we go again ... the whole police force being labelled as out of control, or whatever, just because a few individual members have reacted quite humanly to extreme provocation from some participants in a demonstration.

How many of those demonstrators have been condemned, and why have all the demonstrators not been tarred with the same brush?

- A. Bennett, London, UK., 13/05/2009 11:36
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Ranter: Couldn't have said it better myself! If I had my way we'd have European style coppers with water cannons and tear gas to break up demonstrations. That would make these protesters really have something to whinge about. A lot of them deliberately goad the police hoping they'll lose their temper and bash them one so they can then get lots of compo!

- Sue, Orpington, Kent, 13/05/2009 11:22
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In just about any country in the world these soap-dodgers would have faced baton charges and riot hoses.

- Martin, Teddington, 13/05/2009 11:12
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I agree 100% with Dave Davies. This is a travesty of justice. The moneygrubbing losers dragging the names of these good officers through the mire should remember that what goes around comes around.

- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx, 13/05/2009 11:08
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TSG, SPG, SS, they are all much the same; give any gang of men power, arm them, and give them free licence, and they are up for violence and raring to go; it’s the very nature of all gangs.

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely; they say.

Look at your Government; not very innocent are they?

The police are no different; the problem is controlling those with power etc.

And the Law of the Land; is the only protection we all have; that is if the law is applied to all equally, and not just the general public etc.

So far we have seen the Police mostly immune from facing any kind of justice; and politicians totally immune from facing any justice at all.

As we sow, so shall we reap?

- Mickyinlondon, london, 13/05/2009 10:59
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Once again hysterical reaction is given credence rather than facts. Quite what planet Jenny Jones is on is difficult to determine, that she craves even more influence over policing matters is a cause for concern. Just what do people like her and many of the protestors expect when peaceful and lawful demonstrations become violent, criminal free for alls. The TSG provide a much needed mobile reserve for the boroughs, able to be deployed at short notice. Their members are generally very profesional and well trained. Protestors over the years know how to abuse the complaints systems and every demonstartion will now feature this large scale abuse more and more. I really do not know how many people expect the police to deal effectively in the future if there is this almost childish furore each time, wasting thousands of pounds of taxpayers money which goes to line the pockets of lawyers, time as well which could be better spent policing. I must remind you that compared to elsewhere in the world, including Europe, these protestors would have been dealt with really harshly, with teargas and water cannon deployed, if not baton rounds. So get a grip, grow up and join the real world.

- Ranter, Maidstone, UK, 13/05/2009 10:43
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I smell compensation, nothing else.

- Dave Davies, Basingstoke, 13/05/2009 10:25
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