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N, Kh & NJ - providing a list of names of children killed by whites doesn't really cut it. Murders happen and last time I looked this country was still predominantly white. No one is denying lots of young black kids get murdered too - let's face it other than the ones you trotted out they're usually murdered by other black kids. As for "I'm wondering if this family were this passionate about knife crime when Stephen Lawrence was killed or when Anthony Walker was killed with an axe to the head. I'm thinking not." this is beneath contempt and not worth commenting on. There are plenty of decent young black males in this country but the fact remains some of them are causing trouble out of all proportion to their number in British society.

- Squiz, Islington

living in london today is like a low level war, it really is this bad. The most worrying aspect of this is the way the political class have failed to grasp the situation that we are experiencing in the capital.

- John, dagenham

I'm wondering if this family were this passionate about knife crime when Stephen Lawrence was killed or when Anthony Walker was killed with an axe to the head. I'm thinking not.

I'd like to point out about the murders of Holly, Jessica, Rhys Jones, all the young children that were murdered by their fathers (they were white), Anthony Walker (remember him, he had a axe put in his head by white men) Stephen Lawrence, remember him waiting for a bus...? The list goes on but you all just want to rant and rave about black teenagers, lets focus on the crime itself and not who it was committed by.

- N, London

it seems to me that a lot of the 'outrage' here is based on the fact that Ben was white and the killers black- squiz and simon, NJ is correct. Many white boys do actually commit knife crime but fortunately for them they do not murder the siblings of soap stars so they get away with it, or get a lighter sentence if by a miracle they are caught.
There are so many other families who have suffered and not got justice, or even had the killers of their children found AND MANY OF THESE FAMILIES ARE BLACK so lets think of them as well shall we???

- Kh, London UK

To Squiz- maybe there's no evidence because it's not true? Maybe there is no "PC agenda" after all but this information isn't collected because it isn’t actually relevant, is it worse that Ben’s killers were black? To Simon, if there is evidence, as you seem so sure there must be, then why don’t you quote it? You claim that the Police commissioner claimed that “majority of crimes in London were committed by black males”… so ergo the majority of young black men are responsible for London crime? Errr no, it doesn’t really work like that does it, in the same way all rapes are committed by men but not all men are rapist… I think you are employing some intellectual dishonesty to prove a rather spurious irrelevant point.

- Nj, London

- Last Sane Man Alive, London

It is pathetic attitudes like yours that make this country so dangerous. You can vote for your Liberal-Lefty nutters all you want, they will be thrown out on their backsides very very soon.

- Frank, Home Counties, England.

They have not been given 19 years, they have been given a minimum of 19 years. If they are deemed eligible for parole, they may get it.
I'm not defending what they did, but you can't say that these people won't turn their lives around in future due to their experience in prison. 1 life has been wasted already, what's the point in writing off 3 more?

And to those of you begging for the death penalty, I'm glad the decision is not up to you. You can tell how civilised a society is by the way it treats those at it's mercy. Not to mention the fact that the use of such punishment could only be justified if we had a flawless judicial system, which none of you seem to think that we have. The only way to turn this country around is through education. I would suggest a lot of people leaving comments here should look into that...

- Last Sane Man Alive, London

People seem to be blaming the judge, but he's simply following Home Office (Jack Straw) sentencing guidelines. Your anger should be directed at a Government who were elected on their policy of "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime....."

- Mark, London

A lot of wigged gowned idiots run the legal system. It's just an old boys club for overpaid ex-barristers.

- Frederick, London

Ryan Taylor, Lonson, UK

I believe the same but I do not trust the Police. Rock and a hard place

- Ge, Kernow

How can the tariff for murder with a knife be half that of a gun?

To kill someone with a knife is far more brutal that pulling a trigger from meters away. I am not justifying either. Until they lock-up youths for possession of knifes senseless deaths like these will continue. The anger directed towards the mind-set of the three youths is justified but useless as they believe knifes are clever and until we change this attitude innocent people will die. I have faced a gang of youths the same as these threatening me with a knife and am only here to tell the tale because I was the fastest sprinter in my school that all you can do when faced with loathsome beasts like these.

- Gary, brentwood

I beleive if you take a life, you do not deserve to live yours. Whether it be life imprisonment or bringing back the death sentence. If you intend to kill someone you deserve to have your life ended!

- Ryan Taylor, Lonson, UK

Where is the problem with Justice ? Any Judges thinks that on the painting of the Last Supper by Leonardo da Vinci he should be sitting in the middle and Jesus on his right !

- Edouard, Toulouse, France

19 years?? Why should they be allowed to have a life after prison. They didn't think twice about taking Ben's life. There's no second chance for Ben.

- Caroline, London

"Armeretta, Holloway/Tottenham - 3 Tigger, my brother. Forget what everybody says we all kno your a good guy and we still love you"

Are your a relative of one of these people? Even if you are, how can you still think he's a 'good guy'. But it perhaps it provides us with an insight when the families of such people do not condemn their actions. I hope your 'brother' has a run in with the guys in prison who have his card marked. That would be real justice.

- Simon, London, UK

Mm, it's a real mystery why the BNP are doing so well these days, isn't it!

- Croyboy, Croydon

listen tony your from the usa not england. i lived there for 37 years. he did nothing to deserve what happened to him. nobody could deserve it regardles of racial slurs or anything else. these kids are just animals with no value on life they dont need any motive.

- Dan Ski, australia

BRING BACK NATIONAL SERVICE GET THE THUGS OF
THE STREETS.

- George Austen, HERNE BAY KENT UK

This word respect is totally misused by this subculture.Respect is shown by humans to those people of character who have achieved something in life.These gangs crave the 'respect' of pack animals through fear , which is as much to do with respect as dogs show to each other.

- Chris M, morbihan,france

what did this kid do to deserve this tragic end did he insult them racially there must be a motive which i have not heard

- Tony, connecticut usa

I was born and breed in London, and my family had been living there for a number of generations, we decided to move away seven years ago for the sake of our children. It was not a difficult decision! I remember a friend of mine being stabbed in the late 1970's in Willesden. This was gang related,as there was a problem even then, although it was not racially motivated. I think everthing has now escalated, it was obvious this would happen many years ago and now these crimes happen everyday. I really feel that it is too late to be addressed by this government, unless they are prepared to really understand what is happening to people in this country and act now!

- C.W, Lincolnshire

TO ALL THE FOOLS OUT THERE ,IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE BEN WAS ,PUB, CLUB ,WALKING THE STREETS, STANDING ON HIS HEAD, IT WAS HIS GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO BE FREE AND FEEL SAFE IN HIS OWN COUNTRY AND TO RECEIVE FULL PROTECTION FROM THE POLICE AS PER USUAL NO ONE WAS THERE TO HELP HIM IN HIS TIME OF NEED, ARE YOU ALL TRYING TO SAY IF SOMEONE GOES OUT ON A NIGHT OUT THEY DESERVE TO BE STABBED TO DEATH I AM SICKENED WHEN I READ SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON THIS SITE IT IS DEPLORABLE,NO ONE DESERVES TO BE MURDERED BLACK WHITE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF COLOUR ALL THESE KNIFE COWARDS SHOULD BE ROUNDED UP AND CANED TILL THEY ARE BLACK AND BLUE AND PUT THE CARRY ON OUT THEIR HEADS PRISON IS LIKE A HOTEL TO SOME OF THESE THUGS THEY GO INSIDE FOR RESPITE AND LEARN MORE THIEVING SKILLS AND WHEN THEY GET OUT, IT IS BUSINESS AS PER USUAL OUR GOVERNMENT IS NEEDING THROWN OUT OF PARLIAMENT THEY ARE A DISGRACE, AN INTERNATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT, THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING ABSOLUTE NOTHING TO CATCH THESE MURDERERS,

- James Fennessey, london

3 Tigger, my brother. Forget what everybody says we all kno your a good guy and we still love you

- Armeretta, Holloway/Tottenham

NJ, London, yes I think stats can back up that claim that young black males commit more than there fair share of crime in London. Not that long ago the former Met Commssioner came out and admitted the majority of crimes in London were committed by black males. If you think otherwise you are burying your head in the sand. You only have to read the news regularly to see the true picture. The problem is not being addressed and that's why it is getting worse.

- Simon, London

In response to NJ - if there is no readily substantive evidence that young black males commit more than their fair share of crimes it is because the Govt and Police suppress the information pursuing the PC agenda that says all elements of society contribute equally and immigration is a blessing. If there's a photo of a young black man in the news however you can be sure he hasn't discovered a cure for cancer.

- Squiz, Islington

I am not afraid to admit that I am sixty years old.That means that my life so far, and I am by no means finished yet, has been sixty years.
Can someone please explain to these idiot, liberal, limp wristed, do good, "it's not their fault, it's their surroundings" dopey, brain dead judges that nineteen years is not a life, and does not equal the life that these coward killers denied this young kid?
If we are not to have hanging, then at least make life mean life....that is they NEVER get out!

- Ronnie, Billericay UK

Has anyone asked what a sixteen year-old was doing in a bar? Were there any consequences for that bar?Should we be raising the drinking age to 21, like in many parts of the USA, or would that move problems elsewhere?

- Mdj E10, london uk

So we will now have to pay £40k per year for at least 20 years for these three pieces of scum. £2.4m.

- Adam, Harrow, UK

There is not enough room to list the numbers of youngsters who have been murdered whose killers have yet to be found, let alone convicted of these murders. If only for Ben's sister being an actress, if only for him being a young white boy from Islington, if only for the police wanting to be seen to be doing their job where they fail so many others. May Ben's soul rest in perfect peace. His killers will know the errors of their ways - 19 years is not sufficient for a life - however, will they ever be happy or be able to sleep a good nights rest ever again? I think not. They live in the hope that Karma does not catch them for taking this boys life - but it will. Did any of their mindless family in the court actually apologise for the actions of their sons, brothers, nephews? Did they even think to say Sorry? Probably not. THIS IS THE SOCIETY THAT WE LIVE IN AND EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS CASE, FAMILIES, KILLERS, THE DECEASED, ARE ALL VICTIMS. It is so very sad and a unfortunately, realistic insight into what is wrong with our society today as we are all the creators of it. Sit up and listen Mr Gordon Brown....!!!

- Penelope, London, UK

These boys are complete cowards. They were older and bigger. Ben was a kid. They didn't need a knife. I should say that some of Ben's mates should search their souls.

- Dee, London UK

When will this government admit their is an imported crime problem in London that is mainly responsible for all these knife attacks. Each attack has one common trait, black gang members.

- Dirk Diggler, Soho, London

Barry, Lancing, UK- young black men being responsible for more than their fare share of crimes… their gang culture (do you not think white kids join gangs?)… do you have any facts to back any of this up? Protecting people from discrimination from people with unsubstantiated narrow minded opinions like yours isn’t “PC dogma” it’s just common sense. I’m appalled as the next man by street violence but I’m also appalled by people turning this into a race issue to point score.

- Nj, London

Young black men seem to be responsible for more than their fair share of horrific crimes like this. This is not only because of their gang culture and constant demand for "respect", but also because they are aided and abetted by the PC brigade, who are always on the look out for the minutest deviation from PC dogma.

- Barry, Lancing, UK

Better than life in prison .... Hang them and be done with it. It's time the scum of the earth was removed from the earth.

- Stu, Stockport

I agree with Lb, there is no reason to let such people out of prison. The idea that you can commit a crime like that and get out while still in your 30s is disgusting. It's an insult to the victim and his family. These men deserve no chance at freedom or rehabilitation.

- Kevin T, Beckenham, Kent

This country is awash with these vile, evil criminals. The next government MUST put a stop to these people coming to the UK.With any luck these murderers will get, in prison, what this weak goverment and judicial system have failed to do!How many more young men have to die before REAL punishments are handed down.

- Lucy, Leatherhead UK

Paul from Stevenage-you know what, normally I'm against using the approach of using similar argument, but in a totally unrelated field, in order to win an argument (e.g. but tobacco is a drug and is legal etc etc). But in this case I think you've made a really good point. The nuclear deterrent is based on the theory of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)-with the self explanatory basis of it being that no-one would ever use their nuclear capability as it would mean that they would be totally obliterated. Now transfer that argument across to the death penalty and it seems that the MAD theory holds some weight. If you knew that taking a life meant the extinguishing of your own, would that be a deterrent? And would it be fair punishment if you knew that this was the case before you committed the crime? Of course there are worries about miscarriages of justice. As a possible answer, I would say that a number of pre-requisites for absolute proof must be met e.g. eye witness statements, unwitting confessions such as in this case (and no, not from a confession to an inmate in prison) and scientific evidence, if needed, to back up the case further. This is a great example of a cast iron case: is there really any chance that these people are innocent? No way, and considering what they did and why they did it, they'd be prime candidates for lethal injection. I think hanging is unnecessary, and only adds weight to ant-capital punishment arguments, but hey that's just me.

- Ted, London England

"What I don't understand is that we have a nuclear deterrent with the potential to annihilate millions of innocents, yet we let murderers in the UK get away with these inadequate sentences."

They're not getting away with anything - they've been sentenced to life with a minimum of 19 years incarceration. Which means that even if they're released after that period, they'll still have to spend the rest of their lives unable to do several things that the rest of us take for granted - and can be locked up again at any time.

"Why not take the opportunity to execute some of this useless scum and save the taxpayers some money. "

A few weeks ago someone was released after having served nearly thirty years for a crime he didn't commit. I imagine you'd have called him "useless scum" too on the day of his sentence.

- Michael, London

Monsters. Why not sentence to life imprisonment meaning life? I hope they get what they deserve in prison I really do. I could not care if they are attacked and I hope they are. 19 years, it's a joke. They are the worst kind of cowards, three of them attacking and stabbing one young boy. Why don't we hang them? They are obviously mental retards and don't deserve to be let out at all. When they are they will have years left ahead of them, no doubt with the politically correct do-gooders making sure they live comfortably ever after.

- Lin, LONDON ENGLAND

I dont know how any one could feel that justice was carried out in that court with SECTION 19 C of the Race Relations Amendment ACt 2000. YES It is tragic the loss of a young life,what is even more tragic is injustice in any circumstances:The judges are aparently supposed to be checking with the racial monitoring board to see if the sentences are not discriminatory. Clearly they did not check as this was not a fair sentence we heard sentences of white youths who were given 5 years and now the case of blacks they are given at least19.
Lastly jeering the boys will not bring back Ben and as Christians we are taught to forgive etc. Whilst I do not say that they should have gotten off scot free I fail to see how anyone could come to the conclusion that justice was done.They that lead into captivity will go into it Selah.

- Liz, Thamesmead England

We all know why they only got 19 years don't we. One rule for one another rule for them.

- Richard K, Nottingham

I hope they get put on permananet shower duty, picking up the dropped bars of soap.

I worked in a prison for 2 years, and for some reason the lifers seem to like "young black guys"

Enjoy your 19 year holiday, it will be hell for you inside.

- P Staker, LONDON

Matt, London. You've clearly never been at the receiving end of a murder attempt. It might change your woolly liberal attitude. You sound like one of our over protected, out of touch politicians.

- L.Taubler, London / ENGLAND

This is what comes from living in a country thats swung too far to the liberal left, ineffective sentances, police with their hands tied in red tape, and those who act are left fighting for their careers for things that wouldnt even be questioned in most of Europe, this country has become too weak-willed and ruled by a loud left wing majority that shout down calls from the rest of us to do the right thing, string these scum up.

- Michael, London

Members of the defendants' families exchanged angry words with Ben's friends and relatives before they were led out !.that one sentence sums the whole thing up, the families of the cowards who were sentenced should have hanged their heads heads in shame for their sons cowardly attack on an an unarmed young man,not had angry exchanges with his family and friends, the guilty idiots acted like scum cos they were born and dragged up by scum, they have weakly taken another decent human beings life so they should have lost theirs, or at the very least died in prison, what a bunch of weak willed losers

- Sean O'Leary, walthamstow london

Matt: Easy for you to say when you haven't lost a member of your family. They are scum who have not an ounce of decency in their whole bodies. Let's bring back the death penalty and see who tries to kill an innocent once a few have swung on a rope. Life should mean life. Done time have we KH? I've been in numerous prisons (was part of my job) and although it is no picnic inside they are treated far better than they are probably treated by their own family, the communities and the majority of senior citizens. If I had my way I'd have them breaking rocks every day.

- Sue, Orpington, Kent

Yet another Islington boy failed by this country and by the Islington borough.
MARTIN DINNEGAN (AGED 14) - His killer was on a 'supervision' order at the time of his murder,despite this,his killer was sentenced to just 12 years. His killers associate was sentenced to just 4.
NAS OSAWE #AGED 16# - His killer was on a 'supervision' order also when he killed Nas. He too,received just 12 years.
BEN KINSELLA #AGED 16# - 1 of his killers again,on a 'supervision' order at the time of the murder,yet only receives 19 years. They should all die in prison

- Jen, london

The punishment does not fit the crime. These three thugs are career criminals and they should either lock them up and throw away the key, or preferably bring back the dealth penalty in such cases so the tax paying doesn't have pay for their upkeep. As for Kh saying 20 years in prison is no joke - frankly neither is Murder - and no doubt they won't serve the full term, and come out and carry on with their defective, destructive lives, hurting others. Ben Kinsella isn't going to get a second chance at life and neither should they.

- Jackie, London

Sounds like the defendants families should also join them in jail. Scum breads more scum.

- Frank, Copenhagen, Denmark

Their ugly faces will be back out on the street killing again well before they're forty. Hardly a life sentence is it.

- Jj, London

In such a case where the accused were white and the victim black the racism card would be shown. Please be consistent in covering such stories.

- Mr Pastry, Brisbane

19 years is not justice, however you look at it.

Alleyne had been released three months earlier after serving half the sentence in a detention centre. Well done Straw/Labour.

Judge Barker - "Their action that night defies belief". And your action of only giving them 19 years does the same.

- Frank, Home Counties, England.

I'm 42 this year, I work, keep myself fit, socialise with friends and feel happy with life.

It pains me to know these three spineless animals will be out of jail when their around my current age and still have time to enjoy life - Ben's family AND the country deserves much better!

- Joon, South London

Are you listening Mr Brown. Give the electorate a referendum on what a life sentence should be. Should a life sentence mean the criminal spends the rest of his or her life in prison. Vote yes or no.

- Vic, London

From the way the family behaved you can see where these scum got their lack of moral guidance! Shame on the parents. If any of my children behaved in such a savage and brutal way I would disown them. No doubt they are mourning the "loss" of their children but haven't shed a tear for the victim or his family. They should be named and shamed as an example of how not to raise children.

- Deano, Edinburgh

I'd like to see the Standard putting up and presenting a poll to the Home Secretary on whether these sentences are too lenient. In my view, 25 - 30 years is the minimum this lot should serve before being eligible for parole.

- C.Nichol, London

19 years? No ...with parole and licence they'll be out and killing in about 8 years or so. Leaner, meaner more clued up and more dangerous. You get a 50% reduction in sentence anyway then they take into account time serve. Oh yes 2017 look out.

Incidentally IMO this was quite probably a racially motivated crime.

If one of Ben's family had not have been famous I'm sure the Met would not have put so much effort into solving it too.

Soft on crime, soft on the causes of crime.

- Ethan, UK

If you think these sentences are too lenient you can always approach the Attorney General's Department and make your feelings known.

19 years for behaving like total animals - time to appoint a hangman.

- Paul, London, UK

Funny how the opponents of the death penalty condemn it as "uncivilised". How much more uncivilised - in reality - does our society have to become, before the only fitting punishment is re-introduced for crimes like this? These men have no part or role to play in our society; their mere existence is pointless and destructive. They should be removed - permanently.

- Steven Davidson, Colchester, England

What I don't understand is that we have a nuclear deterrent with the potential to annihilate millions of innocents, yet we let murderers in the UK get away with these inadequate sentences. This is no deterrent. Why not take the opportunity to execute some of this useless scum and save the taxpayers some money. I thought the country was broke?

- Paul, Stevenage, Herts

All this outrage - its quite unneccessary! being locked up for nearly 20 years is no joke- plenty of time to think about what they have done. At least these men were caught and punished - i feel sorry for the families of children killed whose relatives were not soap actors - would the police and the CPS been so dilligent if Ben's sister was not an Eastender's actress?

- Kh, London UK

Hardly life. You used to get more for train robbery!

- Man U Fan, London

L. Taubler - we don't have the death penalty because in spite of everything, we are a civilised nation unlike the USA or other countries with backward, primitive "eye for eye" justice systems. I personally think the sentences were measured and that justice has been done.

- Matt, London UK

19 years is not a life sentence. When will the liberal media stop describing it as life. The sentences should be double - 40 years minimum tariff should be 25 years. Failing this capital punishment. It is pointless them being alive - innit cuz!

- Darren, london

I personally think that the death penalty is wrong but can someone please tell me why these pieces of human waste have been given only 19 years?

This wasnt a one on one fight where the lad got an unlucky blow and died, this was cold blooded murder. Stabbed 11 times.

In this case, life should mean life

- Lb, London

I wonder if these lowlife will be as brave behind bars in a mens prison,will they be as quick to attack fellow cons if they look at them the wrong way or "disrespect" them I think not.In their ignorant way they think they are untouchable,I hope they suffer everyday they spend behind bars,and I still think the sentence is not enough it should have been at least 25years,as I think the murder was racially motivated,if it was the other way round the sentence would have been more.

- Jim Ex Pat,Islington N1, thailand

"Members of the defendants' families exchanged angry words with Ben's friends and relatives before they were led out."
What is wrong with these people, they should be ashamed of their relatives for their evil crime.

- Danny, London, UK

Why Life? Death would be far more appropriate for this scum. How about thinking of the victim for a change, instead of worrying about this these soulless parasites? They didn't worry about taking his life, so why should we keep these monsters in comfort?

- L.Taubler, London / ENGLAND

Bring back hard labour and make life mean life never let them out

- Richard Edmunds, Rayleigh Essex

Why don't we start using words properly? These men have not been given life, they have been given nineteen years. Yes, I know they can be re-incarcerated after release, but we all know that life no longer means life. Why not come out and say so?

- John Punshon, Milton Keynes, England

19 years is not life.

- Sarah, Enfield

40 years ago they would have been executed. I do not want capital punishment back, but for this sort of savage crime surely a minimum term of at least 40 years is warranted? I would not want this sort of scum back on our streets unless on zimmer frames.

- Alan, London

Scum, good, and we wonder whats wrong with Great Britain, this sums the place up. members of the defendants 'families exchanged angry words with Ben's friends and relatives' what chance have we got?

- Steve, Turkey 4 now

Judgeing by kika and Alleyne reaction's to the family and friends of Ben, they are still not sorry or showing any remorse for what they did to Ben, "What kind of animals are they"
May they rot in hell.

- Gail Ault, France

There is no protection from savage animals like these.Confronted by such vicious,ignorant scum one would be no safer than walking amongst lions in the jungle.And they at least have dignity and,for survival, a reason to kill.What possible reason is there for the existence of these malignant creatures.

- M.Sharpe, london

THESE THREE MURDERERS WILL NO DOUBT BE FREE BEFORE THEY ARE 40 YEARS OLD.

GORMLESS BROWN AND JACKBOOT STRAW MUST BE VERY PROUD OF THE SYSTEM THEY STRIVE TO UPHOLD AND FOB OFF LAW-ABIDING PEEPS.

- Reuben Camara, Morecambe UK

The sentence is not good enough it should be 50 years hard labour with no parole.

- Stephend, London, England

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