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Tories admit cuts and ask 'dishonest' Labour to do same
Paul Waugh, Deputy Political Editor15.06.09
SHADOW chancellor George Osborne admitted for the first time today that a Conservative government would cut public spending.
But Mr Osborne said whoever won the next election would have to take similarly drastic action and Labour was being “dishonest” about debt plans.
He said voters were not taken in by Gordon Brown's attempt to cast the coming election as a choice between Labour investment and Tory cuts.
Mr Osborne said the Prime Minister's approach of accusing the Tories of planning to cut spending by a tenth — and branding David Cameron “Mr 10
per cent” — invited “ridicule”.
The real dividing line in British politics was now between honesty and dishonesty about the future, he said.
Schools Secretary Ed Balls warned colleagues in the Labour party that they had to unite to expose the cuts being lined up by the Conservatives.
The Government has yet to decide its budgets for individual departments after 2011, although it claims there will be rising spending overall.
In a bid to underline the difference with the Tories, Mr Balls told BBC Radio 5 Live today that spending on health and education would rise under Labour: “There are going to be tough choices, there will have to be more efficiency, but if we can get the economy right — as I believe we are doing — I can see spending rising on health and schools in real terms after 2011.”
Mayor Boris Johnson said both Tories and Labour were locked in a “numbingly predictable” debate on spending.
He accused both frontbenches of “narcissism” and said the focus should shift to helping business.
Labour has seized on shadow health secretary Andrew Lansley's comments last week — when he suggested Tories would cut departmental spending by 10 per cent in all areas apart from health, international development and schools — to claim a Conservative government would slash tens of thousands of frontline jobs in public services.
Writing in The Times, Mr Osborne said he had been impressed by the way Canada had cut spending in the Nineties.
The Canadian government cut spending by 10 per cent and reduced its deficit to three per cent of GDP in two years. However, it cut budgets for
hospitals, schools, universities, defence and unemployment benefit.
Mr Osborne said: “The real dividing line is not cuts versus investment', but honesty versus dishonesty.
“We should have the confidence to tell the public the truth that Britain faces a debt crisis... that many government departments will face budget cuts. These are statements of fact and to deny them invites ridicule.”
Reader views (53)
I just thik its funny how they find massive funding for their grandeous major scams but in the next breath have to cut money from services for the peopleor Tax the peopleto the hilt. Its not that we do not have enough money coming in its that they the Politician pee it up the wll so to speak. From top to bottom its one big never ending gravy train for them..us...we have to ligve here.
- Clif, London
- T Lawton, Ealing England
Labour education was it?
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
E crudite should get his facts straight it is obvious he loves Brown in fact he maybe a Labour Officer the names sounds right. what about Brownss expenses do you like paying for his new kitchen costing £9000 can you afford one that expensive or maybe Hoons property portfolio over one million or perhaps Ed Balls and his wife flipping three times and both claiming for the same house or Darling he flipped four times shall I go on. they have all done wrong but do not think for one minuite that it is just a Tory one at Least David Cameron is cleaning it up not like Brown he has said a few thinks but knows it is unworkable then puts other things forward hoping it is go away. everyone knows we have to cut spending what about the quangos the bonuses etc. also it was not all the bankers it was mainly Scottish banks so ask yourself the question why it all went through on a nod and wink from another scot Brown. Why was it that RBS was allowed to get away with it all and Lloyds would have been alright if that silly man had not done what Brown wanted and took over HBOS Brown had another agenda Scotland first screw the English.
- Jacqui Williams, peterborough cambs
I can remember when the Tories last one a General Election convincingly and it was won on the basis of Thtacher's Economic Miracle which was an artifial boom that won the Election but sunk the country into deep depression after three years without the aid of greedy Bankers. Is George promising a return to the Greed is Good days of Thatcherism or has he learnt something from its failure?
- T Lawton, Ealing England
Just for the record, I am expat in HK having moved close to 2 years ago. Have lived in UK for 30 years prior to that and am one of the few people who do remember the disaster the UK was prior to Maggie.
So, I think that makes me more than qualified to comment on UK politics ....
- Sarit, Hong Kong
It is funny but you never hear David Cameron telling us how bad it will be whichever Party wins. He seems to prefer to promise everybody what they want and leaves his cronies to point out that the promises are worthless. Dave seems to be basing his election strategy on the successful US model, of George Dubya Bush.
- T Law, Kenton England
Under the gormless doom & bust Brown Britain's debt has reached £160,000,000,000 equating to over 80 Black Wednesdays while the Public Sector pension liability is presently roughly 6 times greater at £1,000,000,000,000 which needs to be paid from future taxation. If any moron thinks either are sustainable then take yourselves along to the men in white coats and ask for a few pills.
Labour 1997- 2010: the worst Government in British history!
- Joe, Thornton Heath, UK
Good for Osbourne. Telling the truth while the Labour troll desperados continue to dig while standing in the enormous hole that is our public finances. Bring on the election so we can rid ourselves of these self serving imbeciles.
- Val, Costa Del Sol, Spain, London
It is funny that after the Bankers have brought the country to it's knees it is the Banker's Party that is going to be elected to save us. It is rather like the Party of huge mortgages with a Chancellor and Leader who both flipped their houses to swindle the taxpayer being elected to sort out the expenses problem. It is a case of I claim for a duck-house or moat cleaning which is legitimate while you working class scum are accused of benefit fraud.
- E Cruddite, Basing England
It would seem that Cameron only lets Osborne out on his own when the Opinion Polls are favourable. Anybody who believes that the Tories would not make unkeepable pronises to get elected must be a bit simple. Remember Thatcher's Satchi Poster promising to cut unemployment and Major's Tax Cuts promise in 1992. After two yesr's of the Dave and George show we will have to re-invade the Falklands to save the Tories.
- B Barker, Bournemouth England
Labour don't do honesty, thank God us British can spot a liar !
- Brian, Llandudno. North Wales. U.K.
Conservative government would slash tens of thousands of frontline jobs in public services". His (and your problem) is that you haven't realised that this is EXACTLY what the majority of the electorate WANT "
Interesting. So you think the British workers want to become unemployed under a Conservatibe Govt. like turkeys voying for Christmas. It iss you who is badly deluded, Malcolm
- Keith Price, Luton, England
How appropriate that it is Lord Lamont's ex bag carrier who is now Leader of the Opposition and is deriding any sighting of the green shoots of recovery. Mind you the recovery in Lamont's time came from reversing Government Policy and leaving the ERM rather than recovering from the actions of selfish and criminal Bankers.
- R Wright, Brent England
Whatever the Tories say they will certainly target the NHS because it is a Socialist concept which they have been trying to undermine ever since its introduction. Remember the hospitals and ward closures under Thatcher.
T H Leeds
- Thomas Hayes, Leeds UK
The only other thing Andrew Lansley has done was to embarass the adulterous John Major by stating that 'Back to Basics' was a moral campaign and not just another disastrous Major Relaunch. Major, who must have been worried about Mrs Curries loyalty, must have been really concerned as he accepted Lansley's ridiculous take and had to suffer being favored by Barbara Cartland.
- R Watkins, Hampton Wick England
Dave and George are so brilliant. I'm so glad that the Taxes paid on my modest income have bought these two brilliant politicians Country Estates. Perhaps George will be able to cut Public Services to save the economy or put up our taxes. But as long as he and his cronies have publicly funded mansions all will be well. He is such a good protector of Tax-payers money.
- R Bright, Hampton England
Sorry George, Thatcher won in 1979 by promising to cut unemployment and then increased it from one million to three million without apologising and then John Major won the 1992 Election by promising Tax Cuts Year on Tear which he knew was impossible. So it is no surprise that nobody believes a Tory Promise any more. I suspect that when you are elected the Tax burden will be switched from the very highly-paid who get bonuses for poor performance to the vast majority of honest people who pay their Taxes. Of course the one Tory promise which is unbreakable is the cut in Inheritance Tax for millionaires so their children will not need to work for a decent living.
- T Smith, Crondall England
Keith Price from Luton - you might think that (unlike Sarit) you live in the UK, but I'm not sure you're even on the same planet as the rest of us. Ed Balls (Browns real Chancellor) uses the same old Labour scare tactis by claiming "a Conservative government would slash tens of thousands of frontline jobs in public services". His (and your problem) is that you haven't realised that this is EXACTLY what the majority of the electorate WANT the next Conservative government to do. Osborne & Cameron have both said they will 'ring fence' Education and Health (as they should do). Budgets elsewhere (and staffing levels) have to be reduced. We're NOT stupid - as Brown & co seem to thing we are. theres still time for you to join us in the real world Keith - but I sense that you and Val in Spain are lost causes - say goodbye Labour!!
- Malcolm, London
Please can we have more pictures of George Osborne wobbling along behind Dave on his bike. He obviously hates it and will happily give it up for the Ministerial limo the moment he gets into power
- Carl, London
Labour is still planning to spend twenty billion on forcing all of us to carry an ID card, and on constructing a database to hold everything that a criminal could possibly want in order to steal out identities.
Jackboot Jacqui has gone, but her policies remain. I'll be voting Tory, and there's no other issue I'll even bother thinking about.
- Nigel, London
Good news to start the week, but once again it takes the Tories to undo the huge Labour mess.
- David Davies, Basingstoke, Hants
Labour's 'investment' is paid for by the taxpayer. The borrowing that is now the highest of any G20 country is paid for by the taxpayer. When are people going to wake up and realise these are the same thing? And the Labour government wants to carry on borrowing and bloating the public sector, quango's and thier own gold plated final salary pension schemes, paid for by us.
Spare me. How can they be allowed to sit there and not call a general election? Why are we such sheep? Where is the civil unrest and passion that would be spilling into the streets if this were any other european country?
Labour have done it again. Tax, spend, screw it up, borrow more, loose the election and let the others clean it up. In creating a nation of consumers who want everything now on available credit they have tricked the electorate into thinking borrowing more than you can affoed is a good thing.
Even Calahan in the 70's admitted you cannot spend your way out of recession.
So much for learning from history.
- Jason Barn, Staines, UK
Actually Keith you are implying exactly that!!
I have substantial assets in the UK and I do come back regularly to see my family so please don't question my grasp of UK politics.
Leaving outside the UK means I can step back and helps me have a bigger and wider view of the world. Frankly, the UK is a basket case.
Moreover, my political views are not as ridiculously tribal as yours obviously are. Anyone who stays loyal to one party or another is a dinosaur. The Tories are not perfect but they are a darn sight better than the current cretins.
If any of you are ever in this part of the world (inc China), you will be dumbstruck at how third world the UK appears. You will see all around you where the money is flowing and be very scared at how decadent the UK seems. Carry on with the failed socialist policies, the waste and the sheer madness of it and the UK is doomed. China and India stomp all over it. And that would be ver sad indeed.
- Sarit, Hong Kong
10% should be the minimum target for Year 1 of the next government.
As well as culling several of the 23 major government departments (International Development, Communities & Local Government, Climate Change, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Secretary to the Treasury, Culture, Media & Sport and Innovation to name a few), there should be a stripping back of the number of layers of government: MPs, MEPs, devolved MPs, local councils, regional councils.
Anyone with Health & Safety in their title should start looking over their shoulder too.
Final salary pensions can go too, unless civil servants are willing to chip in a reasonable amount of their working salary to fund them. Exemptions will be armed forces and MPs. Armed forces personnel deserve a decent pension; MPs should forego any right to a final salary pension and be forced to pay into a private pension, as they seem content for most of us to do.
If a brave government takes up some of these issues, 10% of government cost can be removed easily.
- Nobby Clark, Perth, the Scottish one
Whilst there is certainly some excessive waste in the public system (too many chiefs not enough indians and, no doubt, some dead wood) however getting rid of this waste will not be enough financially and core services WILL have to be cut (whatever any of these politicians say)-this will mean reduced funds for schools, reduced funds for the NHS (unless the Tories are to believed!!!?), reduced funds for the armed services, reduced funds for social services (care of the elderly, child protection, etc), etc. Depending on when these cuts are made it will also result in a rise in unemployment and a further contraction in the economy - if this is done straight after the next election this will be a disaster.
- Andy, london
Sue, Orpington
Spot on! I too am sick to death of paying for the world and its wife, and for all those who are just scrounging.
Be it, single (many fathers?) parents, illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, the "I don't want to work" brigade and the phoney "on the sick" brigade.
If any government were to put forward proposals to put an end to the benefits culture that has become a lifestyle choice, they would landslide into victory at the next election.
- Mrs, London UK
If we're going to carry on spending like we have been, where is the moneyy going to come from? Increased taxes or more borrowing that will eventually have to be paid back (with increased taxes)?
- Kevin T, Beckenham, Kent
Ed Balls is the Schools Secretary so why was he put up by Labour to speak on spending post the next General Election? This was obviously sanctioned by Gordon Brown and shows why he wanted Balls as Chancellor in preference to Darling. Is Brown trying to undermine Alistair Darling who tries his best to tell it as it is -not something Brown likes to encourage nowadays. Don`t think Ed Balls would like Darling pontificating to the media about Education. So much for unity in Gordon`s cabinet. How long before Mr Darling has had enough of being sidelined?
- B Gare, Norfolk Gorleston
The problem is that Liebore didn't invest, they just hosed money to build a state machine to keep them in power. Investment usually involves some value-creation, hosing money at public services merely embalmed incompetence and poor delivery. We need cuts in order to spark innovation and liberate leadership out of management sludge beloved of Brooon. They think we are too stupid to know the difference between investment and embalming public services.
- Jamal Akhbar, Edinburgh
Not one political party out of the big three have got the guts to come out and say "if you haven't put in the pot you can't take out". I am sick to the back teeth of keep paying taxes for this and that and being one of those penalised like many thousands of others by having restrains put on us for things we use like the NHS when others who haven't put a penny in the pot get everything for nothing. No chidren's allowance for those who decide to have more than 2 kids, no NHS if you haven't paid at least 6 years Nat Insurance, etc.etc. Get rid of all the Politically Correct, Equality and Diversity idiots and their big pay packets and stop sending OUR money to other countries until our own house is in order!
- Sue, Orpington, Kent
Hey, anyone out there who believes that Labour won't cut public spending needs an immediate head-check.
- Ted, London
So, Keith are you finally addmitting that Gordon and Co really are dishonest if not down and out liars ...."
You will see from my post that I dont say that at all. If you actually lived in the UK you would have a far better grasp of UK politics - you must admit this
- Keith Price, Luton, England
A country so heavily populated as Britain cannot afford cuts to public services. There is also no room left for cuts in certain areas. Cut the rail subsidy? Put up fares yet again, and pile on the overcrowding. Cut the health budget? Fewer GPs, dentists and operations, not to mention epic waiting times at casualty units. Cut the schools budget? Larger classes, even fewer facilities, more strain on teachers. Cut the amount spent to protect the rural environment? More pollution, ugly countryside, poor quality of life and no interest from tourists. There is simply nothing left to cut, except of course the defence and road budgets.
- Mark, Venice, Italy
The Tories cuts in Public Services
would deflect attention from Ministers theft of Public Funds, focus public attention on civil servants and public servants spend and to suggest that a then nervous Public Services has been the underlying reason for the Minister behavioural problems
-jitters
- Jitters, colchester, uk
"It took ages for the Tories to admit the truth about their plans for 10 per cent cuts across the board, and now they have the nerve to attack other parties that don't."
Keith Price
So, Keith are you finally addmitting that Gordon and Co really are dishonest if not down and out liars ....
Or did you just not realise what you were implying? Wouldn't be surprised given that all your posting show the IQ level of a troll ....
- Sarit, Hong Kong
Can we start by making the 600,000 jobs created by Labour in the public sector redundant.
If we managed without 600,000 pen pushers before 1997, we can most certainly manage without them all now.
Can we also stop giving foreign aid for a few years, we are not responsible for the worlds poor.
Gordon very, very kindly promised African Coutries 8 Billion in aid, 8 Billion !!!
We need to sort our own country out first, not the worlds poor.
- Staker, London
We are going to invest states Labour, if you look up the meaning of this word in any dictionary I do not ever see the word associated with borrowing, Labour tells us that they have built new schools, new hospitals, and other new public infrastructure, yes they have but the majority have been built under PFI schemes, to you and me this means mortgages, therefore we the tax payer the mortgagee will be paying for these projects for the next 30 years. in some cases the buildings will not be fit for purpose after 20 years, and in all cases we are paying around 4 times the cost if we had financed the projects ourselves.
And Gordon and Alistair (the chuckle brothers mark 2) has somehow produced a bit of magic that Paul Daniels would have been proud of, that is that these mortgages are not considered a liability by the Government, and therefore the billions of pounds we owe, are not included in the treasury debt balance sheet.
- Steve M, London
We are going to invest states Labour, if you look up the meaning of this word in any dictionary I do not ever see the word associated with borrowing, Labour tells us that they have built new schools, new hospitals, and other new public infrastructure, yes they have but the majority have been built under PFI schemes, to you and me this means mortgages, therefore we the tax payer the mortgagee will be paying for these projects for the next 30 years. in some cases the buildings will not be fit for purpose after 20 years, and in all cases we are paying around 4 times the cost if we had financed the projects ourselves.
And Gordon and Alistair (the chuckle brothers mark 2) has somehow produced a bit of magic that Paul Daniels would have been proud of, that is that these mortgages are not considered a liability by the Government, and therefore the billions of pounds we owe, are not included in the treasury debt balance sheet.
- Steve M, London
It took ages for the Tories to admit the truth about their plans for 10 per cent cuts across the board, and now they have the nerve to attack other parties that don't. Bizarre
- Keith Price, Luton, England
"there will have to be more efficiency, but if we can get the economy right — as I believe we are doing".
Yeah right, just like they have been doing for the last 10 years, that's why we're in the proverbial up to our necks.
It took nigh on 50 years to pay off our war debt to the USA, how many decades will it take to pay off the billions that Brown has borrowed & he is talking of borrowing billions more.
Time to call it a day and disband the Labour Party altogether.
- K. Woodhouse, Lincoln
Surely the conservatives must now know what the
country expects from a government...?
Learning from Labour's mistakes, yes. But comparing notes for the future, sounds wrong and weak.
Surely their job is to check with the public.
Expenditure per se must be reduced drastically but let's be realistic, look at all the totally rediculous wastage going on. Terrible blunders in every sector of the UK's infrastructure, in particular the NHS, prisons, construction, security, people like the Kinnocks, etc, etc.
- Ex London, Germany
Reuben Camara, Morecambe UK Reading your comments is very hard please press caps locks and give our eyes a rest.
Gary, brentwood nobody take the LD serious.
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Mr Osborne said: “The real dividing line is not cuts versus investment', but honesty versus dishonesty."
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Wrong it is a matter of TRUST. We want people to represnt us and not themsleves and party interests
- Ge, Kernow
So if politicians are to be honest, can we be assured that the cuts will only apply to current expenditure and not to the state pensions of honest National Insurance Fund contributions? I for one am still awaiting manifesto policies from all political parties, including from the Conservatives. I am sure that all voters will want to know the specifics of exactly what cuts are planned. Then they can be assured that the party promisng this will deliver it (or can they?). Some overseas state pensioners have been robbed of annual uprating despte the fact that the Office of National Statistics states that the National Insurance Fund is 50 billion pounds in surplus. This fund was set up exclusively to fund the NHS, state pensions and social security. It was not set up for the benefit of politicians. Why does the UK Govt discriminate between state pensioners who were former National Insurance contributors simply on the basis if where they live? Why does the Uk Govt not uprate state pensions paid in Australia as it does in the US? Prove your honesty, fairness and morality.
- Richard Lane, Kariong, NSW, Australia
Well, yeah: it's totally out of control and leaching money on pointless things instead of being concentrated on maintaining the country's core infrastructure.
Meantime, though I agree with what he's saying - am I the only one who thinks Osborne always looks like he's been made up by a mortician, bless him . . . ?!
- Roz, France
If, creating Lord Meddlesum's new ministry at a cost of £1 - 3M without extra spending, then there is obviously room for cuts!
- Jim, London
Mugabe must be eating his heart out when he see what an "Unelected UK PM" gets up to. The list of Labours failings after a decade could fill a book.
- Fred, London
I think Osbourne is taking a gamble but it’s one that I expect to pay off. The need for cuts in public spending is painfully obvious and as such it is painfully obvious that anyone who denies it is lying to the electorate. Same old Nu Labour, same old lies. At least the Conservatives treat the electorate with respect.
- St, London
This is just history repeating itself and it was all so predictable. Every Labour government has left office in debt. The conservatives then get voted back in and have to clear up the mess, only to leave behind them, like they did in 1997, an econonmy in tip top order. What have Labour done? squandered it and now we all have to pay the price of cut backs in public services so that the incoming government can get the country`s finances back in order.
Just like night following day. When will Labour ever learn.
- B Gare, Norfolk Gorleston
No duh, you think that we can carry on Liebours spending spree of the last 12 years when we're £500 billion pounds in debt? Time to start ditching the civil service non-jobs that have been slowly blocking the UK's arteries for the last 20 years.
- Bob, Cheam
The National Debt is a device designed to keep us in permanent debt, beholden to the international banksters for eternity. The government is forbidden to issue currency, and must instead borrow it from a private company (the Bank of England) and repay it with interest: hence the everlasting "National Debt".
- Neil, London, London UK
Vince Cable is one of the few people within the palace of Westminster, who understands money. Have we not learnt anything?
Career politicians with no real world experience of finance should not be made Chancellor of the Exchequer. The job should be above childish political point scoring and should never have been given to the Brown puppet Darling who is utterly lost.
The concept of the statement that public money should not be wasted should not be making headlines it should be taken as read. I get the feeling Mr Osbourne is as lost as Brown and Darling are and all that will happen when the conservatives take power is they spend 5 years telling us the problem was caused by Labour.
Tell us something we do not know George then demonstrate you can do better
- Gary, brentwood
Are the cuts to services necessary to fund Mr Osborne's expenses?
They are all corrupt - itshigh time the people of the UK got them all out!
- David, SOUTHAMPTON
GORMLESS BROWN HAS NOW HAD 12 YEARS TO "INVEST" IN THE UK ECONOMY. THE RESULT? THE UK IS BANKRUPT. THE NATIONAL DEBT UNDER LABOUR WILL TAKE THE NEXT 30 YEARS TO PAY BACK.
TYPICAL OF THOSE SPIN AND WAFFLE MERCHANTS IN DOWNING STREET, HEADED BY MEDDLESUM, TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE HORRENDOUS LEVEL OF DEBT CREATED BY LABOUR.
LABOUR STOPPED REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF JOE PUBLIC 12 YEARS AGO.
ALL MP's ARE CONCERNED WITH IS HOW MUCH THEY CAN SNAFFLE FROM THE TAXPAYER VIA THEIR CORRUPT EXPENSES SYSTEM.
TALKING OF MEDDLESUM - HOW COME THIS VERY SPOOKY UNELECTED WOMBLE HAS FINISHED UP AS DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER?
MEDDLESUM WANTS TO FORCE THE EURO ONTO THE UK. YES, HE WOULD. JUST TO PLEASE HIS BILLIONAIRE CRONIES ON FIVE CONTINENTS.
JOE PUBLIC COUNTS FOR NOTHING WITH THIS LABOUR GOVERNMENT.
- Reuben Camara, Morecambe UK
