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Attorney General: Baby P sentences not 'unduly lenient'
Paul Cheston, Courts Correspondent16 Jun 2009
The Attorney General today backed down and refused to challenge the sentences imposed on the mother and stepfather responsible for Baby P's death.
Baroness Scotland had said she was considering whether to ask the Appeal Court to increase the “unduly lenient” sentences handed down last month in response to a public outcry.
But today she said the trial judge had been right and there was “no realistic prospect” that the sentences would be increased.
The news comes as Baby Peter's stepfather and lodger Jason Owen launched their attempts to quash their convictions over the death of the toddler, who was 17 months old when he was found dead in a blood-spattered cot in Haringey in August 2007 having suffered a broken back and fractured ribs.
His mother, 27, was given an indefinite sentence with a minimum term of five years at the Old Bailey last month after pleading guilty to causing or allowing her son's death.
Judge Stephen Kramer described her as “manipulative” and “calculating” while rejecting her claim that she was too naive to realise what was going on in her house.
Her boyfriend, 32, was jailed for life with a minimum of 10 years for raping a two-year-old girl.
He was also given a 12-year term to run concurrently for his “major role” in Peter's death.
Owen, 37, of Bromley, received an indefinite sentence with a minimum term of three years for failing to take steps to save the little boy.
Today Baroness Scotland said: “It was clear to me that the judge, who had heard all of the evidence, fully appreciated the gravity of these terrible offences and took into account all of the relevant factors ... there is no realistic prospect that the Court of Appeal would increase the sentences if I referred them.”
The Attorney General said the life and indefinite sentences handed down by the judge were “entirely merited”.
She stressed that the three defendants would only be released if and when they no longer presented a risk to the public, and children in particular.
Lawyers representing the mother's boyfriend have now lodged papers appealing against his convictions.
The taxpayer could end up having to foot a £500,000 bill for the hearings.
Claud Knights, director of the children's charity Kidscape, said she was “not happy and very disappointed” with the Attorney General's decision.
Reader views (40)
i think when you can take a life then you get given life.but life behined bars is to good for someone and too easy you can steel a 1p sweet and get longer for it and you take life and more so it is a baby as well the three sad and sick peaple that did this should go throught the same thing to see how thay feel . and there is peaple that is going throught hell becouse of you three sick peaple from Natasha worthington
- Natasha Worthington, west london, 21/08/2009 15:36
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These people are despicable, and lets not forget, that they murdered a child, who prior to his death, was subjected to the most horrendous abuse on a daily basis. In addition, the mother's boyfriend raped a girl who was two years old. How could these people ever be released into society, and why should they be given that chance? They took away a life, and don't deserve one for themselves.
- Trish, London, UK, 18/06/2009 13:33
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You need to think about the sentences a bit more. They are actually very well considered. I know, it sound stupid but please read on:
A Judge can give up to 14 years as a sentence for the crime they were convicted of. If he sentences them to 14 years then they will be out in 7 - standard procedure. By making a ruling of an "indeterminate" sentence, the Judge is allowed to place a minimum term, in this case 10 years for the step-father, 3 years longer than if he gave the maximum 14 years. There is also the other fatcor of these kind of sentences, that they can be held for life if they still pose a danger, making them likely to be held for longer.
I think the sentencing is actally quite well thought out to deliver the maximum punishment available to the judge. What I would like changed is the boundary between "allowing the death" and Murder. Just becuase it was not possible to tell which of the 3 actually killed the child should not get in the way of all of them being charged with Murder and spending 30 years in jail.
- Jon, london,England, 18/06/2009 10:28
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In is essentially important for human beings to follow laws and orders without which a man can be brutal enough harm others. It can be easily mentioned that law plays a vital role in arranging the mob in a systematic manner. So, one should never fail to follow laws of any kind, concerning anything.
Ryan Decosta
- Ryan Decosta, New York, 18/06/2009 07:45
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I think Mr. Gunner from Surrey has it about right. When you never learn responsibility or have to earn what you eat, you respect nothing not even your own flesh and blood. The "great society" of the USA has created a similar situation. Idolness breeds crime, drugs, recreational sex etc. Pathetic. No wonder the western world is in decline.
- Mary, Pittsburgh, USA, 17/06/2009 23:28
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The life sentence should mean exactly what it says LIFE. If you take a life then you should be punished with your freedom that little boy had only just begun to live his.
We can't always blame the government for these ridiculously lenient sentences Life imprisonment used to mean twenty five years to life in other words you die in prison. Why is a child's life so less important than fraud, embezzlement,or an adults life.
- Linda, Herts, 17/06/2009 19:59
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The Judge gave an indeterminate sentence, so that these killers will not automatically be eligible for parole in three or five years, but can be considered for parole when the Parole Board considers it safe to do so. There is a difference. The Judge's hands were tied by the sentence he could give, so if anyone is to blame for the paltry sentences given it should be the Government, as it sets the tariff for these types of crimes.
- Sonia M., St Albans, Herts, 17/06/2009 16:08
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Socialism has bred a useless class of person,who doesn't need to work so there is no worry if they can't make ends meet ,the Social will pay for your food rent,whatever you need.The devil makes work for bored minds,while waiting for the Giro cheque to come ,why don't we go out and smash up something,nothing will happen to us whatever we do.There is no room in the prison as this government won't build any more,people who have no money can't be fined ,so we better give them a caution,The police are aware of the futility.Even worse, community work.The community work operates like this; turn up or not if you have a headache or the like,then get protective clothing...this leads to a tea break.The tea break over it is nearly time for dinner,this takes about two hours where we listen to music on dvd.Dinner takes us the place of work where there maybe an hour or two left of the day.Any person who has tried to supervise violent thugs during this alleged community work will understand that these people don't like to be told off.The alternative to all this ,is for the government to say oops we got things wrong ...better cover up somehow with a load of lies or "spin" as it's called.TOO DEPRESSING TO CARRY ON
- Graeme Gunner, Surrey, 17/06/2009 14:03
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Well may I suggest that this judge juges in a trial in which one of his children would have been so ruthlessly murdered...I'm sure he would have dished out some 30 odd years !
Something tells me he should not be a judge. Maybe a nanny or something like that.
- Edouard, Toulouse, France, 17/06/2009 13:38
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As we could have predicted, the useless Attorney General refuses to act on these inadequate sentences. And as could be predicted, the perpetrators start taxpayer-funded appeals against their convictions.
Welcome to Britain, where the criminals have more rights than the victims.
The UK is going downhill fast. This horrific case and the inadequate sentencing just about sums up everything that is wrong with the place. It is a case study in what happens to a society after years of incompetent governments, with policies that have created a growing underclass of poorly educated people, lack of family and moral values, inadequate punishment for crimes, and a culture of refusing to take responsibility at work or personally, even when a childs life is at risk. The end result is a breakdown in society, and evil being allowed to flourish.
People seem to be sinking to the lowest common denominator and copying each others lazy, selfish, callous attitudes, in their jobs and personal lives.
The UK could be a great place, and its sad to see the deterioration. I now live abroad, and on every visit back, I notice the apathy in the general public, and a growing indifference to the plight of others. Is there any political party that can change things? I really hope so.
- John, Australia, 17/06/2009 09:02
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It is a crying shame, I never thought that I would see my country drop down to this level, first the rediculous lenient sentences that kramer handed down on the Baby Peter case,then the politicians getting exposed on corruption and cheating on their expenses now we have this attorney general who condones that so-called judge kramer's rediculous sentences,Isay to the people of Britain you are in dire straights people like the brown',camerons;straw' scotlands and kramers have to go people like that at the helm,they are dragging the country down while they are getting richer, A TERRIBLE SITUATION
- Agnes & Robert, vancouver bc, 17/06/2009 06:37
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How the hell is voting labour going to affect the social services one way or another?
If you vote Tory, the services will most likely be cut, but the problems, which will not magically dissappear, will end up on the police roll, or the health services bill anyway...
i'm not entirely sure that any of you have experienced life away from your TV sets and minimalistic conversations behind a pub table.
it's you that make this country expensive!
- S, Ox, 16/06/2009 23:54
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I often hear it said the u.k is one of the best countries in the world in which to live and I don't disagree - but sadly this also seems to hold true if your the scum of the earth too. Can anyone imagine this low life being treated so leniently in countries the likes of Russia or China, or anywhere in the middle east ?
- Noel, Swindon, 16/06/2009 21:22
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If you vote labour its what you get, live with it.
- Rob, Rock Ferry Wirral, 16/06/2009 17:23
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The judicial system has never, and probably never will, share the sentiments of the general public on the matter of sentencing. Even if the Government guidelines were amended to better reflect public opinion, the judiciary would still do all it could to minimise jail sentences. The faults of both the judiciary and Government guidelines are in the end dictated by the number of available prison places and the prison building programme has been reduced to minimal proportions by he Government, which at the same time has created ever more offences. We live in Labour La-La land - no point in looking for logic.
- James Elliott, Eastbourne UK, 16/06/2009 16:18
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Well done Straw and friends in government and lets not forget our good Judges - all jumping into bed with the peadophiles again.
- Martin, Cheltenham, 16/06/2009 16:07
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Hardly surprising from a wishy-washy government and a Ministerial bunch dredged from somewhere below a sewer outfall.
No regard for the will of the people.
- Gordonbay, London and Cape Town, 16/06/2009 16:03
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"Baroness Scotland"????
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 16/06/2009 15:42
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This was such a shocking story, as is any story of abuse against children. So any sentence passed down should reflect that the crime was against a defenseless child. Everytime I look at the picture of Baby P it saddens me to think that we live in a society where we cannot rely on the local authorities, police, government and judicial to ensure that something like this never happens again (should never have happened in the first place), and the fact that the sentence was so leniant is an insult to the childs memory. I can only imagine how the natural father feels, knowing that the scum responsible for this dreadful crime have launched appeals against their sentence.
"the three defendants would only be released if and when they no longer presented a risk to the public, and children in particular". Now how many times have we read about defendants being release early only for the person to go on to re-offend? All parties involved in the childs death, should serve life, without parole.
There is a serious lack of responsibility in this country and whenever something like this happens, it turns into a charade of finger pointing and passing the buck. It's time something was done to sort out the mess this country is in when it comes to crime and I don't feel confident that our government has got the guts to do it.
- Alan, East London, 16/06/2009 15:37
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Yeah but for fraud you would get 10 years.
So what's important life or property?
It makes me really sick that property is more important than life to some people.
- Evan Mcgilvray, Leeds, 16/06/2009 15:28
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We really shouldn't be surprised. The hapless Baroness Scotland is so useless one wonders how she gets to and from the lords unaided.
- Dominic, london, 16/06/2009 15:22
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The so called individual 'professionals' who 'overlooked' the suffering of Baby Peter, under the banner of child protection are the ones who have been treated with undue leniency.
Not one of them has been prosecuted for the failure to protect Baby Peter, an IDENTIFIED victim of abuse, who was known to be living in an 'at risk' situation.
How many more children, at this moment, are being enabled (some would say aided) to be further violated even though they have been identified as victims of abuse.
Too many IDENTIFIED being abused children are being failed to be protected from further violations because of A National Child Protection Policy and 'system' which is failing the very children that it is in existance for.
The 'system' is in URGENT need of complete redesign from bottom to top.
How many more children have to die in waiting for change?
- Tessa Boo, London W11 1NR, 16/06/2009 15:17
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What's the point of an Attorney General?
There's a public outcry at the sentences handed out to those that caused the death of Baby P and yet the only people that can take this any further are the stepfather and lodger, who are aiming to get their convictions quashed.
The British justice system is a complete joke.
- Joon, South London, 16/06/2009 15:10
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What do you expect from this God forsaken, so called, Government! Can't anyone do something to get rid of this bloody shambles of a dictatorship? And millions of us think we are a democracy! We truly are a bloody stupid bunch of people to allow this to carry on!
- Alan, Chigwell.UK, 16/06/2009 14:54
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P Staker, London sorry but these scums are much worse than kiddy fiddlers. That was his alleged Mum. A bringer of life not a taker. She is a Child Son murderer the ultimate low life, even other criminals would look down on them,
- Gary, brentwood, 16/06/2009 14:47
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It's the government-imposed sentencing guidelines that are at fault, not the judiciary. We need to remember that when we vote. No-one in their right mind thinks that these grotesque people have been given long enough.
- Mary Watson, bodmin, uk, 16/06/2009 14:28
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"and the stepfather also RAPED A 2 YEAR OLD."
Which is why he's quite rightly serving a life sentence.
- Michael, London, 16/06/2009 14:28
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What can you say there is no justice in this country seems the worse you are the better you get on. What is wrong with these judges are they afraid to give a long sentence bring back the death penalty its the only way to stop this carnage !
- Linda Cliff, London, 16/06/2009 14:22
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Agreed with Helen. These useless moral-less people were voted in. Get out and vote - get rid of them and their corrupt, absurd policies.
- Renee, Windsor, 16/06/2009 14:05
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WELL WE WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW ETERNAL GENERAL THEN, THIS ONE IS NOT DOING THE JOB PROPERLY, NO WONDER THE BRITISH CITIZENS ARE SICKENED TO THE CORE WITH A HOPELESS GOVERNMENT AND A COMPLETE NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE JUSTICE SYSTEM ,DONT VOTE LABOUR THEY ALWAYS DO THE OPPOSITE TO WHAT THE COUNTRY WANTS.
- James Fennessey, london, 16/06/2009 13:48
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Disgusting! How can they say that the sentences are sufficient. Our justice system stinks!
- Jk, London, 16/06/2009 13:43
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In a word "yes".
- Steven Dale, London, England, 16/06/2009 13:31
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This beggars belief. This country is governed by a bunch of crooks and fraudsters and our judicial system is a laughing stock amongst criminals. This makes Zimbabwe a more attractive country to live in.
- R.F., Yorks, UK, 16/06/2009 13:18
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They should re-name the UK kiddy fiddler paradise, the poor baby had his spine SNAPPED as well as being tortured, and the stepfather also RAPED A 2 YEAR OLD.
Glad I don't have kids.
- P Staker, London, 16/06/2009 13:07
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Everyone, you voted all this in and you still do. So unless you change your vote next time you get the chance, stop complaining.
- Helen, norwich, 16/06/2009 13:05
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Modern Britain, hey?
- Roz, France, 16/06/2009 12:57
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They weren't "unduly lenient" towards little baby Peter, were they? I'm referring of course to the child-killers who took his life.
- Neil, London, London UK, 16/06/2009 12:51
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One can only despair.
What sort of justice is this !
Poor mite suffered beyond our imagination.
- Asw, HK, 16/06/2009 12:34
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Would have been a bigger surprise had they listened to the public. Smoke n mirrors killed the outcry at the time.
- Ge, Kernow, 16/06/2009 12:16
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They call this justice do they. The judicial system in this country is a complete joke.
- Sue, Orrpington, Kent, 16/06/2009 12:14
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