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A public debate organised by a banned Islamist group sparked scuffles and angry confrontations over segregated seating for women.
Police were called after members of Al Muhajiroun physically prevented men and women from sitting next to each other leading to claims of assault and intimidation.
The event titled Sharia law versus British law was meant to see radical preacher Anjem Choudary debate Douglas Murray, director of the right-wing thinktank the Centre for Social Cohesion at Conway Hall in central London last night.
However the venue's owners cancelled the meeting before it even got under way because of “fundamentalist thugs” who clashed with Mr Murray's supporters at the entrance.
It led to a noisy stand-off outside the building in Red Lion Square for more than an hour as police intervened to keep the two sides apart.
Mr Choudary planned to use the event to publicly relaunch Al Muhajiroun five years after it was supposedly disbanded. It was led by Omar Bakri until his deportation for glorifying terrorism after praising the 9/11 hijackers as “the Magnificent 19”.
But the preacher had the microphone snatched out of his hand last night after his black-suited security guards pushed out women trying to enter the main hall where around 60 Muslim men were seated. Women were confined to the upstairs balcony.
Giles Enders, chairman of the South Place Ethical Society which runs Conway Hall, took to the stage and said he was cancelling the event because of the forced segregation of men and women.
Mr Enders said: “I'm not prepared to have fundamentalist thugs in our hall preventing people from coming in. We do not condone segregation.”
Mr Choudary then addressed his followers in the street launching into a fiery invective attacking British society as “corrupt” and “morally bankrupt” and warning the UK would be turned into a Sharia state.
He said: “This country is rife with social and economic problems and only Islam has the answer.
Muslims are multiplying at a rate eight times faster than the kaffir (non-believers) In a couple of generations this will be a Muslim country, inshallah (God willing).
“We will dominate this country, my brothers, and implement the beauty and perfection of Islam.”
His followers greeted the speech with cheers and cries of “God is great” and “Sharia for the UK.”
The crowd included Ishtiaq Alamgir, the extremist who led protests against British soldiers during a homecoming parade in Luton and Simon Keeler the first white British Muslim convicted of inciting terrorism.
Mr Murray turned up at the venue later flanked by his own security guards after the talk had been called off.
He said he had decided not to share a platform with Mr Choudary when he realised it was not being organised by an independent third party and because of the segregated seating.
He said: “I'm perfectly willing to debate Anjem Choudary and Al Muhajiroun's ideas. His ideas are not difficult. They do not stand up.
“But it's very clear that this debate is not neutral. This was a segregated event, policed by Al Muhajiroun's guards.”
The crowd branded him a “coward” as he tried to leave, so he returned to the square outside the hall and confronted Mr Choudary and his supporters in the street.
The pair spoke for about 10 minutes about why the debate was no longer going ahead and the format of past debates.
A Scotland Yard spokesman said police were called to reports of a crowd outside the hall at about 6.30pm but the situation was calm when they arrived and officers made no arrests.
Earlier, Mr Choudary said he had not broken any laws and called to Muslims to join his group.
“We are not a proscribed group and it is not illegal to be a member,” he said.
“That's a challenge to the Government and to the media - we were not doing anything that was terrorist-related in the past.”
Accepting that the group would have to pay attention to laws which outlaw the glorification of terrorism, he said: “We will have to choose our words a little bit more carefully.”
Reader views (41)
Judging from the comments posted here, Anjem Choudary gets credit for at least one thing; he is able to bring out the worst in both Muslims and non-Muslims.
- Abu Deedat, London, U.K.
To those who still believe that the "extremists" are the problem: these ideas are inherent in mainstream Islam:
Kaffir & dhimmi: non-Muslims are either infidels or "protected peoples" (slaves); apostasy is treason; the right way to live (for everyone, including you, dear reader) is under Islamic Law; gays are contemptible; Allah (an angry and unreasonable fellow, by all accounts) wants the ENTIRE WORLD to unite under Islamic rule.. these extremists are only highlighting, noisily and with poor style, fairly normal and widely accepted Muslim ideas. Remember: the Koran is divine revelation and cannot be changed. This is the fundamental problem.
The nice and civilised Muslims of Iran fell to Islamic revolution and look what a paradise that is now.
When the ever-expanding lovely and law-abiding Muslim population in Britain attains democratic majority, Britain will join the long list of repressive failed Islamic states in no time.
- Mark, London
I do not agree with these future predictions of growth of the muslim populations. I am living here in London, but I am original from Germany and I am still in touch with my university in Berlin. In interaction with them I am consulting muslim girls who would like to work or study in the UK or the US. It is astonishing how qualified, educated and self determined many of them are. It is a new generation of muslim girls and they are on the way to become strong and solid members of western domocracies and working environments. They will decide on their own wether they will have kids or not and I am sure in the generation after that they will decide which religion they choose.
This will equalize growth I am sure. However, the society and government has to continue to support them. When Choudary says the UK is bancrupt ect what are muslim countries then ? Pakistan is on why to break, Afganisthan is in serious problems, Iraq is in truoble, Lebanon has Civil War from now to then, and and and.The UK looks still much better.
- Karsten, London, UK
Choudary sounds like the South African leaders under apartheid! The problem is that people take him seriously. He needs to be made a total laughing stock. Lets examine the basic living standards of people in Islamic states, the lack of basic human needs, the abject povery and destitution. If this is somehow a salvation from the evils of the west, put the argument to the people instead of enslaving them in the name of 'God'. Turkey should be an example to us all of how a mainly muslim population can live in relative harmony and prosperity.
- Neil, London
Please check the website of Ex Muslims of Britain. In our words we want freedom and respect for human rights and to be able to live lives peacefully as we choose. Muslim rules are rejected such as a muslim must murder anyone who leaves islam, and women and people of other faiths are inferior. Sharia is an unfair, corrupt and inequitable system. Only oil riches allow Gulf states enough funds to pay an army of internal security police to terrorise people to obey tribal rules from 630 AD. Most areas where sharia rules are Failed States, ravaged by civil wars. The UK had an open border policy for 15 years with millions arriving unchecked. Now there are over 300 active terror plots, backed by Gulf funds. Open borders have been used by terrorists to establish safe UK nogo areas. That is Labour's legacy to the UK. Labour have created an inernal terror problem that makes the IRA look like child's play, and then try to pretend they are 'tough on terror'.
- Mohamm, Bethnal Green uk
David, are you saying that sitting next to each other and using the toilet together are the same thing? I would hate to see the state of your sofa
- Daveb, London
Segregation....than why not have unisex toilets introduced. just because it is seprated does not mean either sex will be treated differently.
Those who are saying that an islamic state exists..you must be mistaken...gain knowledge first before you open your mouth. reason why people like him are trying to change this country into an islamic state rather than saudi arabia..is becuase Britain is the closest place to sharia due to its justice towards the public.
Mr. Murray didnt have a clue about the segregation...his intentions was not to come only an hour later he was informed about the situation and used it as an excuse...he came at the last second to just show his face to people like Rashid (who needs to study islam)
it wasnt a Rally, it was going to be a debate, but if you knew it was going to be segregated than why come cause a fuss.
- David Karim, London
Choudary is an idiot, his bodyguards are thugs, they represent no one except a tiny section of ill educated/and or mentally unstable losers.
Just ignore him, or put him on a plane to any islamic paradise of his choice after making him repay his benefits.
Islam is like all Abrahamic religions, irrelevant tosh, without integrity or foundation.
- Kerry, Purley
Well said Sonia, St. Albans. I know many muslims who are peaceful, kind and more than accepting of the laws of their chosen residence. How would the Middle East like it if we tried to take over their land and laws? It really does only take one bad apple.
- Rebecca, USA
I almost got sucked into this anti Islam hysteria by the BNP and their kind.
Yesterday however I read a BNP blog which described Martin McGuiness as a " Bog Pig". So much then for the much vaunted defenders of the 'British Isles'. As far as I am concerned all bets are now off concerning the BNP. In the bin they go along with the UAF and this choudury nut.
They are quite clearly still the same old sectarian pub bores that are, as I write, probably sniggering away at the treatment of the Romanian Gypsies in Northern Ireland.
My eyes have been opened and it's a frightening sight before me. Bigots of all hues are lining up to spew their hate in a country that has lost its identity. Why? Because decades of venture capitalism have corrupted and torn the heart out of the UK both financially and morally.
This will not stand for much longer in the land that gave the world Parliamentary Democracy and constitutional Monarchy. The people will speak soon...
- Londoner, London, England.
The meeting was only cancelled because Choudary wanted to enforce sexual apartheid. Had this not been the case it would have gone a head. Had the HallStaff been informed of this demand beforehand the booking was made they would have been told that this was not acceptable
Just as unacceptable the use of thugs to enforce their demand
The truth is they never wanted a debate they wanted a rally which is something quite different
I am sure they knew Conway Hall would not allow sexual apartheid and that is why the decided to book that venue
- Ed, London
As a second-generation immigrant, I think its time for the Government to stop pussyfooting around. No-one forces Choudary and his ilk to come to this country.
There are plenty of Muslims and other faiths that live and worship quite happily here without expecting their religion to be unilaterally adopted. It's radical idiots like these that make it difficult for the other Muslims.
When in Rome do as the Romans do. If you don't like it LEAVE.
- Sonia M., St Albans, Herts
LOL everyones moaning now.
We have freedom of speach in this nation. Grant the fool the abilty to speak freely without censorship or limitation in public so we can report them to the world and expose the evil.
Freedom of speach does not allow you to encourage illegal acts, you can moot if laws should be changed but not act as if they do not apply to you.
Many people think we gain silencing people like this which we do not. Let him speak loud and clear then arrest him and show a judge the film you have taken
- Ge, Kernow
It is certainly time for these nutjobs to be cornered and prevented from spreading their hatred and offensive beliefs. This is not to say I have anything against the muslim religion I merely find it offensive that these people want an Islamic Britain - I think you'll find boys that we are quite happy without your 'values' in this country. There are a number of other countries which Im sure you'd find more accommodating - only trouble is they wont pay you benefits. Wake up Gordon.
- Dave, Madrid
I passed a Socialist Workers stall outside my local College today...they were getting a petition to outlaw the Nazie BNP. I see no difference betwen them and the extremist zealots in the article. I do not want to use the word Muslim because I do not believe they are.
Before Islam was Allah ( God ) and God laid out 10 simple Laws which are the root of Muslim, Jewish and Christian believes. Its just a pity that man in his delusions of Go(o)d and Evil corrupt that which is so simple.
Here is one ' Love your neighbour as yourself'..try that for a week Mr Chouldry.
- Clif, London
Isn't it an offence under anti-discrimination legislation to refuse women equal access to a public meeting? If so why hasn't anyone been charged?
It's depressing how frequently "minor" offences are ignored - it's practically guaranteed when the criminals are self-proclaimed-Moslem extremists. This is equivalent to society waving a white flag. Extremists should face the full weight of the law *every* time they break it.
- Nigel, London
@Tobin
Like you, I have many Muslim friends who are upstanding citizens who make a contribution to society.
But you say at one point, "do not inflict it on me". And therein lies the problem. What occurred at Conway Hall was Islamist fascists using physical force to "inflict" their own interpretation of sharia law on non-Muslim British citizens.
What then should our society do when these extremists use force to inflict medieval practices on us? What would you do, for instance?
- Danny, London
Poor Mr Courdary, he found his religion and lost God!
- Maria, London
At the end of the day England is not a islamic state,people like Mr Choudry should go and live in Pakistan,Saudi Arabia,Yemen or similar so that they can carry on preaching their twisted ideology in peace.How they can get away with this blatant racism is beyond me,incidents like the one in Luton were an absolute disgrace,how members of the English public could stand by and suffer that is to me shocking,where is the opposition?Its about time we stopped protecting people like the odious Mr Choudry and started showing these people who are taking severe liberties that they will not be tolerated.
- Jim Ex Pat,Islington N1, thailand
It is important to remember that muslim is not the same as extremist.
As a student I shared a house with two muslims, a hindu and a guy from cornwall. For the record I'm an atheist.
As of the last time I heard from them, they were all in full time employment and contributing to british society.
My point is that the vast majority of people muslim and non-muslim will get on with each other when left to themselves. It's only when extremists on both sides of the fence stir things up that the trouble starts.
Mr Choudary, If you want to live under Sharia law, then by all means do so, just do it elsewhere. There is a very old saying, "When in Rome, do as the Romans".
I'm a native briton, I have no problem with the practice of any religon, but do not inflict it on me.
- Tobin, Newbury
Gary has got it right. This whole religious mess is becoming a joke and needs some firm action, this is the UK and everyone has equal rights. Regardless of your religion, intimidating bigots have no place in our society.
Most in the UK really don't care what god you choose to follow or how you conduct that following. Its a personal choice, something to give you strength at times of need, no one has the right to critise.
From a general observation it appears that these extremists are the most insecure among us. To reinforce their own frail beliefs, they lay draconian boundaries around themselves and once these harsh boundaries are in place, they then look to bring others into their way of thinking for fear of being seen as idiots. After indoctrinating a few, this in turn reinforces their own beliefs, giving them power, a larger following and a more vocal approach. A sad self perpetuating cycle.
Lets be honest, if you believe you have sound moral values, you don't need an irrate, twisted individual telling you how to run your life!? As for religion saying one human is less than another, thats not divine, thats human manipulation!
The UK govt needs to open its eyes, realise this extremist behaviour has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with domination by bigots.
- Carl, London
I am a Muslim and abhor people like Choudary. So please stop implying in your comments that all Muslims are like him. Muslims I know work hard, abide by the laws, pay their taxes and are loyal to this country. Stop questioning their loyalty.
- Fm, London, UK
I was there, it was terrible... What is a style? "Segregated seating for women" medieval and antiquated, I am not a dog...
- Zebra, London
I do really sometimes wonder if Ahmed Choudhary is secretly in the pay of the BNP. He is the best asset the Far Right have.
This is another dismal watershed in the downward spiral in this country. Islamist thugs using physical force to coerce non-Muslims into sharia law in a public space in London.
The UK will not become a Muslim state for one very simple reason: There will be a civil war long beforehand. As events in Luton have shown, British people are getting to the point of taking the law into their own hands to resist Islamisation.
Make no mistake: this is a very dangerous time.
- Danny, London
This country is heading for an absolute disaster and the government are not doing a thing to stop it. WHY! Mohammed, London
Well said,
Labour only care about votes, they know to resolve isssues like this will offend sectons of the comunity so they opt to ignore whilst hate brews in the streets, best expample Luton. We are all in the handcart heading for hell.
Labour only care about votes, they know to resolve issues like this will offend sections of the community so they opt to ignore whilst hate brews in the streets, best example Luton. We are all in the handcart heading for hell.
- Gary, brentwood
If Mr Choudary is not happy with the way Britain is being run then he is more than free to leave. The sooner the better as far as I am concerned.
- Paul, Chatham, UK
This country is heading for an absolute disaster and the government are not doing a thing to stop it. WHY!
- Mohammed, London
@Gary, Brentwood. Oh please with your 'women are above men in this country' stuff. I the city it is not uncommon for women to be treated as eyecandy etc. clearly though there is a significant difference between the treatment from that to what these EXTREMISTS say. Foreigners dont refer to white english people as all BNP supporters and I see no reason why I should refer to all british muslims as supporters of this guy especially when it has been evident he has little support.
- Alan Rex, london, england
Mr Choudrey should feel free to live abroad (thats if someone would accept him). Not so Nice to see though hes managed to get the publicity that he always seeks (i think the Al Muhajiroun referred to the bombers of 911 as the 'magnificent 19'?) and he normally says something to get the press and public in a reactionary state...
p.s. Nice to see we have found an article for the usual suspects to show up with their hate filled reactioanary comments. Clearly, the guy in the article is an extremist (i.e. someone who isnt part of the mainstream) but can some of the posters see this? Hell no, why miss an opportunity to bash all muslims..
- Alan Rex, london, england
"multiplying at a rate eight times faster than the kaffir"
This is a trick many politicians are fond of, and depends on a simple manipulation of percentages:
a) 100,000 becomes 150,000 = 50% increase
b) 5,000 becomes 20,000 = 400% increase
400% is eight times 50%, yet the actual increase in b) is 35,000 less than a).
Higher percentages (and higher multiplication rates) depend on a much smaller base amount to begin with.
- Dave White, London
Quote Muslims are multiplying at a rate eight times faster than the kaffir (non-believers)
Its proganda like this which fuels the BNP, where is the fact to back this up?
Well done extremists setting Muslims back yet again.
We should not accept any person degrading females of any religion or for any reason; Females in Britain are above men we open doors for them. Surely sex discrimination laws are being broking but as normal Muslims are allowed to walk over British law through fear they will scream racism. This hate needs dealing with in this country before anarchy starts
- Gary, brentwood
Some of the reactionary language in the replies is quite scary. Please be specific about the groups you are addressing as all Muslims are not like Mr Choudry, in fact he is in a minority like the BNP!
Ordinary Muslims are lovely law abiding and generous people.
- Looney, UK, London
No UAF about to protest against this man, well what a surprise.
This religious nutter is just another big advert for the BNP.
- P Staker, London
Good point LB
you wrote ..
Where are all the unite against fascism and anti racist student rent a mobs? I thought they were fighting a war against extremism and bigotry?
Was this event scheduled when they were all signing on?
See this is a massive double standard that I have a major problem with. Which is why the UAF and associated bully boys have zero credibility with me.
- Ethan, UK
Alex, London - precisely!!!! We are TOO generous. These Muslims think they can intimidate this country into getting everything they want. Enough pussy-footing around these backward-thinking, primeval, poisonous people. Everyone in this country should be subject to the same laws. If you don't like it, get out. And take your anger-filled lives with you. We don't want your hatred here.
- Jc, London
Women fought the good fight, died and WON so that I could be an equal, valid member of British society. I am not alone in valuing the sacrifices made on my behalf and so while the likes of Mr Choudary peddle their prehistoric attitudes, they don't stand a chance of succeeding.
- Jane, London
There is a storm coming. It will not be in Islam's favour. The UK public will not stand for this forever. Do not abuse the generosity of the native British person. Do not think that they cannot be bothered to do something about this, and that they are too apathetic to make changes. If you like your values of the countries where you are from, then please stay there. This was a nice and much more civilised place till you lot showed up. You would do well to fit in. Or please exercise that other right in our country - to leave... my fine, intolerant, misogynist, narrow minded, violent friends.
You will not get things all your own way. If its war you want, believe me, its war you will get - and Brits do have principles too you know.. We just have a big reserve before we snap.. then we finish the fight.
Remember one thing: faith means not wanting to know what is true.
- Alex, London
>>Mr Choudary then addressed his followers in the street launching into a fiery invective attacking British society as “corrupt” and “morally bankrupt” and warning the UK would be turned into a Sharia state.
So why doesn't he follow his leader and go and live in an Islamic state then? Maybe because he won't be able to scrounge off the state as a benefit claimant.
Why hasn't he been charged with inciting racial hatred? Why weren't the anti-fascist brigade there, eggs at the ready, to turn Choudary into an omelette? His views are no different from those of Nick Griffin however the anti-fascist brigade seem to ignore these preachers of hate.
- Adam, Harrow, UK
Where are all the unite against fascism and anti racist student rent a mobs? I thought they were fighting a war against extremism and bigotry?
- Lb, London
We can have neither peace nor security until all religons are abandoned and left behind, along with all other foolish superstitions.
- Will, UK
If a belief is so good people will choose it, if you enforce your belief on people they will rebel and reject it.
This isn't just my opinion it has happened all the way through history.
This isn't an attack on the Muslim faith, I actually like the principles behind 5 pillars of Islam, this country would be better if we this is an attack on extremists and bullies.
This comment could quite as easily be relevant to the BNP as it is to Mr Choudary's group.
- Looney, UK, London
