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BBC conductor Sir Edward Downes and wife commit suicide
Robert Mendick and Kiran Randhawa14.07.09
The son of conductor Sir Edward Downes told today how he and his sister wept as they watched their parents die hand-in-hand at the Dignitas clinic in Switzerland.
“They drank a small quantity of clear liquid and then lay down on the beds next to each other and within a couple of minutes they were asleep and died within 10 minutes,” said Caractacus Downes.
“They wanted to be next to each other when they died. They held hands across the beds.”
Sir Edward, 85, one of the greatest conductors of his generation, and his wife Joan, 74, who lived in Greenwich, took the decision to take their own lives when she was diagnosed with terminal cancer of the liver and pancreas.
Sir Edward was nearly deaf and could barely see and decided he could not face life without her. Caractacus, 41, an IT worker and musician, and his sister Boudicca, 39, who works for the UN, flew with their parents to Zurich last Tuesday. On Friday they sat in the room watching their parents die, tears pouring down their cheeks. “It is a very civilised way to be able to end your life,” said Caractacus. “And I don't understand why the legal position in this country doesn't allow it.”
Sir Edward was Principal Conductor of the BBC Philharmonic from 1980 to 1991 and conducted at the Royal Opera House, where he met his wife, every season for 54 years. The couple were married for 44 years.
Watch Sir Edward Downes conduct at Covent Garden
Caractacus and Boudicca returned to London at the weekend, phoning police yesterday to tell them what they had done before releasing a press statement today. They will be questioned by officers from Greenwich CID this afternoon. A police source said: “This is something we have to do as a matter of routine.”
The deaths will spark a fresh debate over the law on assisted suicide. At least 115 British people are thought to have travelled to Dignitas to end their lives. The Crown Prosecution Service is yet to bring a case.
Caractacus, who now lives in Monmouth, said: “We wanted to be with them. To start with my mother didn't want us to go but that was early on. Dignitas encouraged us to go. My parents were both very relieved we were there. There is a detailed process Dignitas require you to go through to make sure you are aware of what you are doing and you are sure that is what you want to do.”
A specialist had given Sir Edward's wife weeks to live. “The prognosis was fairly bleak. It was between some number of weeks and months,” said Caractacus. For Sir Edward, the decision to go to Dignitas was “more of an emotional thing”. Caractacus said: “Dad had felt he was physically winding down. There were all sorts of things he wanted to do but couldn't.
“For the last couple of years he had been doing a degree in Russian. He wanted to do something to keep his brain ticking over but the physical demands of being able to read Russian texts — he was having great difficulty with. It was frustration upon frustration for him.”
The family researched the legal position and took advice from a family friend, a retired solicitor. “We looked up what was going on the internet. But it would not make any difference. Even if they arrest us and send us to prison it would have made no difference because it is what our parents wanted,” said Caractacus.
He added: “We knew this would be in the papers so we were very clear we didn't want to be untruthful about what had happened. We were not going to lie to anybody.” Caractacus paid tribute to his father, a leading conductor for six decades. “The range of things he has done — it is a career I don't think anybody will manage again.” Caractacus and Boudicca issued a statement saying: “It is with great sadness that we announce the death of our parents Edward and Joan Downes. After 54 happy years together, they decided to end their own lives rather than continue to struggle with serious health problems.
“They died peacefully, and under circumstances of their own choosing, with the help of the Swiss organisation Dignitas.
“Our father had a long, vigorous and distinguished career. Our mother started her career as a ballet dancer and worked as a choreographer and TV producer, before dedicating the last years of her life to working as our father's personal assistant. They both lived life to the full and considered themselves to be extremely lucky.
“Our parents had no religious beliefs and there will be no funeral.” They said their parents will also be missed by their grandchildren Omar and Zeki and by other family and friends.
Children named after ancient british warrior chiefs
Sir Edward and Lady Downes named their children, Caractacus and Boudicca, after two ancient British warrior leaders who fought the might of Rome: Caractacus was the courageous chieftain who led resistance to the Roman invasion in the first century. After losing the battles of the Medway and Thames, he fled to south Wales where he led a successful guerrilla campaign. He was eventually defeated in AD50, captured and taken to Rome where Emperor Claudius, impressed by his bravery, spared his life. Edward Elgar composed a cantata based on the story.
Boudicca was the warrior queen who led an uprising against the invading Romans. They flogged her and raped her daughters after seizing control over the Iceni people in East Anglia. Boudicca's forces launched a counter attack, defeating the Romans and destroying Colchester, London and St Albans. She was later defeated and probably poisoned herself.
Reader views (49)
To Caractacas & Boudicca - your parents are special people who had the courage of their own convictions and the ability to share their last moments with each and with their children at their side. I personally find this to be quite beautiful and believe we should all have this choice and that we shouldn't have to travel abroad in order to achieve it
As to some of the other unhelpful comments about selfishness and loss of respect, just be content that those people clearly did not understand your parents and their motivations. You will continue to have all your memories, including those last special ones. I hope they won't be spoiled by future events. Good luck.
- Marian Bloom, Stradbroke, United Kingdom
As one who participated in Russian classes with Edward in 2007-8, I was amazed at his modesty (he never told anyone who he was!), his intellect and perspicacity, despite his years and his sight and hearing difficulties. He was an adornment to the class.
As a supporter of Death with Dignity, I admire his and Lady Downs' courage in going to Zurich. My sympathies to his family: we have lost a great man!
- Michael Ellman, London, GB
Zo- What a thought-provoking post you wrote. I agree with you- he could have helped so many people once his wife had died. I'm sure people might have been queuing at his door to speak to him- he could have helped all sorts, from school children to young composers and musicians. What a shame the talent he undoubtedly had has been wasted in this manner. I, too, have been re-thinking the death of Jade Goody and see in her someone who courageously fought her illness and considered others instead of herself whilst in such pain. In retrospect, we see in Jade Goody someone who showed great dignity in her death, but in the Downes's we see the opposite, sadly.
- Richard, London
At 85 he may not have had so long to go 'alone'. Moreover, he had two 'wonderful' adult children and must have had so many genuine friends and disciples willing to spend time with him. Even the powerhouse Toscanini stopped conducting towards the end of his life. I, too, have been moved by his conducting and his previously publicised plight with impaired sight and hearing. But I am deeply troubled by his chosing the sordid procedure and have somehow lost a little bit of my respect; paradoxically am re-thinking my attitude towards the whole Goody circus and thinking about courage in face of illness and how one is remembered. In my fifties and not as well as I used to be, although not terminally diagnosed (yet!), I have often thought about the principle of suicide and how I want to end my life. Sir Edward is someone I knew and cared about as an artist and he was the first whose 'Swiss' death affected me. The thought of this great man, from whom so many still could learn and enjoy his company, copping out...Leaving the greatness and departing. I realised I now abhor the idea of suicide, and particularly the 'dignified' assisted suicide. For this, I thank him.
- Zo, London
If you walk home tonight, and see someone ready to jump off a bridge, would you say 'Ah...he's just about to commit suicide...it's his right, it's not my place to judge or interfere....in fact, what a beautiful way to die, at a time of his own choosing....let me help you jump', or would you try to talk the person out of it? Sadly, suicide is seen in some quarters as a 'beautiful' thing and there are too many heartless people who would be persuading the person to jump, not helping them to see the beauty of every day of their life. What a reflection of modern, secular society, where death is seen as favourable to life.
- Richard, London
Sean-London .. it states that she was terminal with cancer .. he was not but was in poor health .. it should not be anyone's decision but theirs as to how they end or continue with their lives .. they had the support of their children and families, who else should they care about? Why would it matter what the public thought anyway? And now people are here criticizing what's been done? Why? It's done, they did it the way they wanted, they died together .. we have no rights to judge anyone, it isn't our job .. if they had no religious beliefs then they do not care about what the Bible says even if others do ....
- Toby, Vancouver Canada
So romantic, so romeo and juliet. A dignified death, but painfully sad.
- Anon, London
My thoughts are with the family and friends.
Alan Cutkelvin Rees
- Alan Cutkelvin Rees, London
I applaud and respect this couple for ending their lives when and how they wished to, together and with the support of their children.
I think it took great courage and also exquisite good taste. Why should one hang around to suffer through the worst years of one's life if one is ready to die?
How many people throw themselves off a tall building, endangering the lives of people below?
Switzerland is a civilised country to provide this service.
As for the people who mention 'God' and 'sin', I am sorry for them: it is so much better to think for oneself rather than be brainwashed.
- Sidney Marks, London, UK
I would also like to add to all those using the 'God' argument that just because YOU believe in a God, it is arrogant to assume everyone else must. It seems to me that the concept of 'sin' was created merely to frighten the masses into submission. Saying someone has sinned by ending their own unbearable life, against the wishes of a fictional being YOU believe in is highly insulting.
- Kate, Oxford
This is possibly the saddest story I've ever read. I was near to tears. My deepest and sincerest sympathy to the children and grandchildren of this dear and brave couple. Rest in peace x
- Lorraine, London
RIP.
This is a decision for the individuals and family alone. Not the State, religious zealots, or others here who know little or nothing about the circumstances of these peoples lives.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
A sad story but a dignified end. If it ever comes to that, I hope to be able to go this way, but in the comfort of my own home with my loved ones around me.
Gary and Ge, while you may believe in god and sin, many millions don't. You don't have the right to force your beliefs onto others. If you think you'll go to hell, don't do it. But don't tell someone else they don't have the right. The law in this country has some catching up to do.
- Rick, London, UK
Sean, London - I have not missed your point you have missed mine. Why should their children look after them when the parents didn't want that kind of life for their children. It is the parents choice. I didn't ignore your points. I explained my reasons and your response clearly summarise the self righteous position that people from your side of the fence always put. You just see the words "assisted death" and immediately get all religious and righteous. I love your comment "his eye sight had just gone" - very off the cuff as if it was nothing important - and his hearing - and he had cancer. This guy was a professional conductor - his sight and hearing were key to his quality of life and yet you feel you can speak on his behalf and decide he was wrong. I am glad we don't have people like you deciding on policy. You have no right to sit there and comment on someone elses position when you cannot possibly understand it.
- Andrew, St. John's Wood, London
Two months ago, my father did "active euthanasia" (as opposed to the passive form: palliative sedation) after he was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer 6 weeks earlier. He died at the place and time of his choosing: at home, on a Monday, haven being able to say farewell to all his friends & family, and surrounded by my mother, my brother & his wife and me. He died with a broken body in agonizing pain, a clear mind, but most of all with dignity.
Luckily, euthanasia is legal in my country (NL) and being a first hand witness to the whole process, I know you neither start this procedure in the spur of the moment, nor be “pushed” by others. It is something you grow towards. In our case we did this as a family. Having a religious background ourselves, we did not have any problems with my dad's decision. No matter what persuasion you are, when people are in constant pain as my dad was, death becomes a relieve to them.
I do not understand a country that goes to war to bring freedom to other people, but denies its own citizens the freedom to die with dignity. I hope the UK will join the coalition of civilised nations shortly and make euthanasia legal: Everybody has the right to die with dignity.
Caractacus and Boudicca, my thoughts are with and your parents were brave people.
- Eric, UK/NL
Sean: I see no mention of you caring for an elderly sick relative? I know someone who had to take 2 years off work in the City to look after his mother when she died, having already lost his father. When my mother's condition dramatically deteriorated after a couple of years' excellent treatment at the Marsden, I was 8mths pregnant and looking after a 3yr old on my own, abroad, whilst my husband was on 6mth stint in Iraq. 'Happily' my brother was unemployed and my father is retired, so they took the brunt of it: given neither of them could even cook, it was definitely the best of a bad job from all 3 of us. Without stating it, my mother elected to starve herself to death: her quality of life became rubbish, her treatment was invasive and embarrassing and she had nothing but more of the same or worse ahead of her. She refused to eat, or smell cooking, or have anyone who had eaten within a couple of hours come near her (she could smell it on them). Occasionally she surcumbed and ate a yoghurt, but she couldn't cope with the terrible thirst and kept sipping water or sucking on ice-cubes: as a result her slow and agonising death took MONTHS - I'd say about 6 in all - lying in bed in pain, too tired to move, or watch TV, or talk, or read, or see her grandchildren. She several times remarked that if she had been a cat we could have taken her to the vet and then 'it would all be over'. Last week her 18 year old cat was taken very ill and the vet did what a doctor can't.
- Roz, France
It is such a shame that they had to make this decision.
I am against assisted suicide and I am deeply shocked that such organisations are allowed to exist in Europe. There is something deeply sinister about this organisation's intent.
I would not want to see this happen in the UK.
I look back on the many performances at the Opera House he conducted, with great fondness.
- Charles, Kennington
If I am wrong I am sorry in regards to it being illegal. But whilst it may not be a crime it is certainly a sin and I believe many religions will refuse to bury you if you take your own life. People (lobby often posting here) supporting a person with none critical illness killing themselves through stress should be aware of the dangerous path they walk, my granny once wanted to choice suicide 9 months later and a new home. Her life was a joy and she brought joy my family, my point was more to do with how ill a person is. I accept medical advancement are preventing natural death but people who under stress decide to take their life is 100% wrong in my opinion and nobody will ever change my mind. God is the final judge
- Gary, Brentwood
Suicide Act 1961 does stop a person who has failed to commit suicide from prosecution but does not make the act itself lawful but most cases would be handled under mental health legislation requiring the person to be sectioned.
Spanner case which ruled that a person cannot lawfully consent to anything more than the infliction of minor wound is important in English law
The Human Rights Act 1998 Pretty v Director of Public Prosecutions (2002) 1 AC 800 the court ruled that a patient could decline treatment knowing that this would result in death. However, the court in this case drew a distinction between passively allowing death through omission and active assistance in suicide, you could breach this act by just buying a packet of Paracetamol @IF@ you knew a person was likely to commit suicide
Lets not forget That God of most religions does not allow suicide, it viewed by most as the ultimate sin being deaf in the 21st centaury is certainly not a just reason to advocate murder which is what this clinic has committed, which would be a crime if it were to happen in this country
- Ge, Kernow
we must definately have the right to live and die in dignity.
Can anyone tell me why shouldnt we????
Well done Sir.
Rest in peace
- Sylvia, greece
I agree - it is a civilised way of dying if life becomes unbearable, and I cannot understand why doctors who condone the ending of new life through abortion are so opposed to the merciful ending of painful living. To me, this is a form of restricted practices by the medical profession. Nor do I understand why disabled people take the ending of the suffering of the able-bodied so personally as a threat to their own survival. It is nothing of the sort and need not be if proper procedures were to be drawn up. To me, it is nothing short of scandalous that choice is denied to the sick and old when they most need it and are least able to exercise the choice to be liberated from their misery and pain. It is the depth of hypocrisy that this denial of choice extends to those who can assist voluntary euthanasia. I would understand Christians and faith people opposing suicide and assisted suicide on moral grounds, and that would extend to objections to abortion, but I deplore the intolerance of secularists who deny others freedom of choice in matters of assisted euthanasia. Why should it be legal to commit suicide, but illegal to be helped to commit suicide cleanly and as painlessly as possible? Hand your heads in shame if you believe that this contradiction must be sustained.
- Cassie, London
I think they made it clear; they did not want to live without each other; ok one might have survived, but that one would be without the person they loved the most etc.
If anyone here has ever been truly in love; and I mean the love of your life; then they alone will understand this pact ''totally''
My wife has advanced Alzheimer’s disease; right at this very moment in time I am doing my normal housework, this is my tea break etc; while still at the same time caring for her; we are lucky, I am still strong and able; but if I was not; my wife would end up in one of those dreadful care homes; and I know that is the last thing she would want; so if I was not able to care for her anymore; we would both probably just turn on the gas tap and light a match; as we can’t afford a trip to Switzerland.
You see nobody really knows what they will do at the end of their lives if things got to hard to carry on; no-matter what the government tells you in the media; the truth is; there is no real help at all from the government or local councils; they always have excuses; like not enough social services staff, or not enough funds etc; and the real truth about the new future care for the elderly they will announce today will still be hog-wash; because even today, they cannot for-fill the care they promised years ago.
All; I can say to you all is this; there but for the grace of God, go we all; and when your time comes, and it surely will, then you can judge others.
- Mickinlondon, london.
I would do the same, I have seen people die of cancer and I wouldn't want to go through that either. When you realise all there is left is months of pain and misery, why put yourself and your loved ones through that. Let them/us remember them for the great people they were. Rest in peace.
- Jonathan Roberts, London, UK
All life is a terminal condition.
Only your own shall ever belong to you.
Same for your religion. Nein danke.
- Helen, Reading
Sir Edward was nearly deaf and could barely see and decided he could not face life without her.
Obviously, as a musician, being nearly deaf is a tragedy in itself. Not every musician is a Beethoven...
And his wife, without whom he felt he could not live, had only a short time left to live with terminal cancer to cope with.
Sean,
I think you have taken a few shortcuts on your assessment of their condition.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
- Clarissa, Vienna, Austria
"Suicide is illegal and always will be."
Actually, suicide is perfectly legal, provided only one person is involved. Helping someone else commit suicide is the thing that's illegal.
As for Sir Edward Downes, it was clearly his decision (I believe the final straw was when he started to go deaf on top of his blindness, which would make it impossible for him to appreciate music on any level - even Beethoven could still read a score), and I see no reason why it should be anyone else's business. He clearly thought it would be better to go now than in a few years of ever-increasing decrepitude, and who's to say he was wrong?
- Michael, London
Sean. You say YOU could live with this. He did not wish to. It was a decision he made with his wife and they chose to die together. How dare you decide by proxy what was right or proper for someone else when it come to how and why they end their own life? It is none of your business and I fail to see why you think something so personal needs to be 'justified' in your eyes.
It should be an individual's perfect right to end their own life as they please without the added fear of their loved ones getting into trouble for helping them.
- Kate, Oxford Uk
i knew these people to speak to on friendly terms and found them to be intelligent and very much together with a marriage which evidently had emotional/love/respect committment,
if these two people choose to leave this earth together then this was THEIR CHOICE
- i am pro euthanasia/assisted suicide as long as there are safe guards in place - i have seen many people die and often those deaths were not pleasant (i worked within the mediacal profession).
We end animals suffering when its severe, why is the same right not given to each of us by each of us.
Lady Downes, it is reported had terminal cancer.
Sir Edward was blind and virtually deaf and did not want to go on without her.
They no doubt did not want to burden their families or suffer the indignity of more protracted decline and suffering or/and to have this inflicted on those they loved and who loved them.
ONCE AGAIN I SAY - THEIR CHOICE
(as one day - if necessary - i hope it will be mine)
- Lynn, london
Anyone who is in such a mental state of actually wanting to end their lives needs help, not encouragement to do so. We have a responsibility to these people.
- Harriet, London
If I can choose to live a full life then I should also be allowed to end it with some dignity. I would not wish to be exposed to futile hospital treatments at the hands of strangers when I can make peace with myself and also choose to experience death.
Besides the state does sanction a form of suicide - when you join the armed forces you know you can die. It is a pact of death and life.
- James, London
This is a sad story, hundreds are dying alone, some suffering in needless pain. Families have to watch in silence, stressed and unable to help when a terminal illness strikes. The law has to change to give us the right to choose were and when we want to leave. We should not have to travel abroad in secret to finalise our end.
- Lee, middlesex
I am really beginning to believe that "comments" shouldn't be on articles which deal with death/disasters and other peoples grief - they all invariable turn into slanging matches between anonymous people who are probably not experts but just like the sound of their own voice.
- Jc, se1
Gary - suicide is NOT illegal - assisting someone to commit suicide is illegal.
Sean - She had cancer and this is, if untreated or detected too late, terminal and he wanted to die with his wife - are you suggesting that he should be forced to live rather than die with the woman he loved.
They were 2 consenting adults who wanted to end their lives together. What is sad is that they were not legally able to have their family with them when they chose to die.
Provided I am mentally competent if I am ill and in pain why can't I choose when I die and who I choose to have with me supporting me in my decision without having to raise thousands of pounds to go overseas alone - we live in a civilised and educated society we should be able to provide legislation that allows this in this country with all the necessary safeguards to ensure that the person is not being coerced into making that decision (as exist in Switzerland).
- Andy, london
Its wrong that people have to travel overseas to do what should be their right in their own country.
- John, London, UK
Andrew: I was simply putting up an argument to Jessica that if a stranger looking after someone is considered too much, people do have their Kids. As usual with people like you, you ignore the points I made. Mostly because you have no answers. He wasn't terminal, his eyesight had gone, that's all. You think that's worth killing yourself for. I don't. To quote your last sentence about this wealthy man who wasn't terminally ill.
"As you can see from the article the children were very happy with their decision".
If you can't see the possible problems with this, I pity you.
- Sean, London
None of us chose to come into this world, so at the very least we should all have a choice when we want to leave it. These were two rational adults who made a decision that affected nobody but themselves, they should have been able to go peacefully in the comfort of their own home instead of having to travel abroad. For those religious people who say suicide is wrong, then let God deal with it, and if heaven is wonderful then what is wrong with someone wanting to get there sooner rather than later. I hope they both found the peace they were hoping for.
- Graeme Brown, Austin, Texas, USA
It seems terrible sad that people have to travel abroad to take the only thing that we truly own : our lives.
- Eric Muldownie, London
The line in the sand has been Sir Edward Downes had no terminal illness. I see nothing courageous more selfish and abuse of the laws of this land. Suicide is illegal and always will be.
- Gary, Brentwood
Sean - why should his children look after them? You're seem to be forgetting that perhaps maybe just maybe this couple didn't want their children to see them in such a state and would prefer their memory of them to be a positive one. Why is it that people never actually think about the individuals themselves but just about other people. As you can see from the article the children were very happy with their decision.
- Andrew, St. John's Wood, London
With deepest respect.
Unto death, as in life.
An example complete.
.
- Helen, Reading
Richard - why is it a "sad waste of a life". He lived a full and happy life and ended it the way he wanted to - happily in love, together with his wife. There is no waste here and I am sure he is happier now. As other people have said - the sooner they make this daft situation legal the better. We are not living in the dark ages and people should have the right to choose. Now cue the religous brigade and "you can't play god" argument.
- Andrew, St. John's Wood, London
Jessica
It was not Falconer who spent a fortune on wallpaper. It was his predecessor Irvine.
- Jb, London
Jessica: As far as I can tell, neither of these people were terminal. They just decided to kill themselves because he was nearly blind and she had cancer. You seem to think their age justifies what they did and even want the law changed to allow it here. But what if he was thirty and he wanted to kill himself because he was blind? What if a child was born blind? And should it have to be strangers dealing with "your basic toiletry needs"? This couple at least had two children who could have looked after them.
- Sean, London
What a sad waste of life.
- Richard, London
Sadly the Bill has already failed. Unfortunately Baroness Campbell's impassioned plea prevented the Bill being passed by the Lords. Whilst I appreciate that Baroness Campbell wants the right to live she is now forcing those of us who want the right to die at a time of our choosing to die alone!
- Andy, london
The sooner Lord Falconers proposals are accepted the better. The heartbreak for families watching once active elderly parents struggling to live any sort of meaningful life is more distressing than any outsider can imagine. There is both compassion and dignity in choosing when and how to die, rather than leaving everything to take it's 'natural course'. The downside to advances in medical science often leads to prolonged distress for both the sufferer and their families. In such circumstances religion or medical oaths and ethics should play no part whatsoever. However, some legislation is clearly necessary to protect those vulnerable people who have past the point where they are unable to make any cognitive decisions about their immediate future.
- Pat, south of England
A sad day indeed for the family and music world.
What this action also highlights is the sad fact that one has to go abroad rather than take such steps in the UK and makes it a choice that only those with the financial means can undertake.
- Tony Islander, Herts
A sad and courageous tale. Now, we will have all the critical comments from the know-it-alls.
- Never Eat Tuna Again, London
How sad farewell to a wonderful composer (you can listen to him on youtube). But how lucky they were to be able to choose when they go and not suffer the indignity of having strangers deal with your basic toiletary needs as your system collapses into a body you hate but cannot terminate.
I hope Lord Falconer get this bill legalised and this would become his legacy rather than his silk wallpaper extravaganzas.
- Jessica, london
