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Home Secretary targets violence at closing time
Martin Bentham, Home Affairs Editor22 Jul 2009
Home Secretary Alan Johnson targets London's flashpoints
Eight London “hotspots” are being targeted to tackle drink-fuelled violence at closing time.
The flashpoint areas are the West End and the town centres of Sutton, Stratford, Camden, Croydon, Kingston and Romford, plus Peckham High Street.
Police say they combine the potent mix of pubs and clubs, takeaways and transport hubs. They have the highest number of offences of “most serious violence” among 13 to 24-year-olds — ranging from murder to grievous bodily harm — particularly between midnight and 3am.
A new drive by Home Secretary Alan Johnson to cut the number of people killed or badly injured in fights includes measures such as:
* The use of “marshals” by taxi firms and bus companies to prevent jostling, queue-jumping disputes and other clashes that break out as drinkers go home.
* More rigorous licensing conditions will be imposed on fast-food outlets under which they could be required to appoint security staff or to limit the number of people they allow on their premises at any one time.
* High visibility policing, combined with the use of search arches and “wands” to detect knives and other weapons and the deployment of drugs dogs to deter dealers and casual users.
* Mobile “triage” sites will be set up by health staff to provide more rapid treatment when fights do occur.
A further part of the campaign will be an attempt to encourage businesses to help reduce such incidents by joining in “socially responsible” efforts to change the image of high-risk areas.
Announcing the new drive today, Warwickshire Chief Constable Keith Bristow, who leads the Government's Tackling Knives Action Programme, said the aim was to build on recent success in reducing the number of stabbings by delivering a similar reduction in all forms of serious youth violence. “It is about saving lives and protecting communities from the awful things that sometimes happen,” he said.
A number of other unspecified “economically deprived” areas with similar high levels of violence will also be targeted, as well as other “hotspots” elsewhere in the country.
The new measures will form the centrepiece of the second stage of the Tackling Knives Action Programme, which was launched in June last year in response to public concern about the rising number of fatal stabbings in London and elsewhere.
Figures released today show the first phase of the programme, which was deployed in 10 areas around the country, produced mixed results with an overall 17 per cent drop in violent offences involving knives and other “sharp instruments” where the victims were aged 19 and under, but a rise of six in fatal stabbings.
In London, the figures, which cover the period from last July to March were better, with three fewer knife killings and a drop of 20.9 per cent in the number of all violent knife offences involving victims aged 19 or under.
There was also a 12.4 per cent drop in the number of older victims. More recent Met figures, which are not included in today's Home Office report, have confirmed these trends.
Other statistics today show peak periods for violent offending involving 13 to 24-year-olds in London are between midnight and 3am on Fridays and Saturdays. The next highest risk period is on the same nights between 9pm and midnight.
Reader views (45)
Paul Cavanagh, no mate, you didn't mishear Postman Pat. He did actuallyy stste that it is not knife wielding thugs that cause stabbing deaths, but the medical care (or lack of it) that their victims subsequently receive.
You really couldn't make it up!
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 23/07/2009 13:52
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Didn't anybody notice that on the TV news Wednesday that Johnson said " knife deaths were not the responsibility of the perpetrators but delays in the emergency services". Maybe I misheard him ?
- Paul Cavanagh, WIRRAL, 23/07/2009 11:34
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Kevin T is spot on. There is no fear of consequences. The fines are rarely more than a round of drinks. How about £500 release on payment for a first offence. We could also include £50 per night B&B charge. Further offences £1,000 a throw. If this were implemented things would change. The laws are already there, e.g. drunk and disorderly. What's not there is the political will to implement them.
- John, UK, 23/07/2009 07:41
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Get rid if cheap supermarket alcohol and get rid of the problem in one easy go.
- Vince, London, West London, 23/07/2009 03:16
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Council homes for workers not shirkers freeloaders and criminal. Stop rewarding failure you bunch of loony lefty losers. Communism for others not any longer. Make Gordon Brown Blair and all cabinet members work in the manual service sector for the next 10 years or just hang em.
- Mike, London, 23/07/2009 00:42
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In some parts of Venice drink is actually quite expensive, very expensive in fact. Only rich British bankers can afford to drink in some of the bars and hotels, unfortunately. That's why there are no horrible stag nights here. Therefore, why not jack up the price of booze in some locations in the UK? Keep out the oiks and the criminals, even some of the bankers on bonuses.
- Mark, Venice, Italy, 22/07/2009 22:49
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Meanwhile the MPs enjoy their subsidised bars at the House of Commons, get drunk, vote, claim expenses......and have more weeks off in a year than most workers have in years
- Tonny, London, 22/07/2009 22:13
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What does Gordon McClown mean and should comments like this be allowed? Patently offensive remarks like this should be be banned if were all going to be PC; what the hell does his scottish nationality have to do with it after all enough of his countrymen are dying in Afghanistan for GBPLC.
- Tony ,Essex, Harlow,UK, 22/07/2009 17:20
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Alan Johnston has shown himself top be just as useless and devoid of ideas as every other Labour politician now clinging to office. The sooner they are persuaded to spend more time with their families the better.
- Lawrence, UK, 22/07/2009 16:47
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-Bring back the death penalty for murder, gbh, crimes against minors
-Bring in national service-1 year between 18-19
-Bring the army in to police the streets-have the army in charge of police "wards"-take out heads of this or that police force-make them report to generals
-Mass building program of jails to mop up unemployed construction workers-how about using white elephants as sink jails.
-Stop council house construction and start bulldozing sink estates-30 days to move warnings to all
-criminal records for minor children to be replicated on each of their parent's records so they share the stigma and lose jobs...incentive to supervise their kids
-disarm the police and devalue their role , they have failed,and send them out on 8 hour beat shifts-only the army have weapons-like in paris-very effective military semi militia with machoine guns in camo patrolling hotspots
- Amoreno, luxembourg, 22/07/2009 16:11
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The reason for the violence is simply the lack of any fear of the consequences.
Go out, get hammered and punch someone and you'll be very, very unlucky to even get arrested - since thanks to Labour's red tape, it will take 2 police officers approx 4 hours to run you in, lock you up and fill in all the forms. Then you'll face a magistrate who will be very unlikely to give you a custodial sentence. Why exactly should an aggressive 19 year old lad think he'd better behave himself?
Why are we so soft? What other countries tolerate their town centres being turned into drunken riots every weekend? Behave like this in most countries and they'll turn the water cannon on you, then put you in prison.
I don't see anything in this article suggesting this situation is to change.
- Kevin T, Beckenham, Kent, 22/07/2009 16:11
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Postman Pat can flood his "hotspots" with police and they can arrsest all around them, but the courts (under the direction of Jack, Man of Straw) will simply impose a paltry financial penalty (which won't be paid) and then throw the guilty back on to the streets ready for opening time the following day. It will be yet another completely pointless initiative, because it will not be carried through to the end. We've seen it all before.
Gormless McClown, however, sees things through rather more rose-tinted spectacles; the more we, the plebs, worry about rising violent crime (and it IS rising), the less time we will have to worry about what he and his fellow politicians are doing with our cash, and the more ready we will be to accept the continued erosion of our hard won freedom and liberty.
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 22/07/2009 15:41
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RAPED,BURGLED ,RUN OVER , CALL THE POLICE 999 
OUR HELPFUL PC P.C'S WILL POP ROUND UP TO THREE DAYS LATER FOR A NICE CUP OF TEA AND BISCUITS
YOUNG OFFENDERS,NO PROBLEM,YOUR FREINDLY NEW LABOUR PROGRAMMED BOBBY WILL TAKE YOU OUT FOR A GAME OF CRICKET OR FOOTBALL AND BUY YOU A NICE PIZZA BEFORE ASKING YOU KINDLY NOT TO DO IT AGAIN.AND REMEMBER ,IF A NAUGHTY HOUSEOWNER TRIES TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR PROPERTY , WE WILL PUT THEM AWAY FOR 18 MONTHS SO NO NEED TO WORRY THERE AS WE WILL GIVE YOU LOT'S OF LOVELY COMPENSATION IF THEY AS MUCH AS SAY BOO TO YOU.
DON'T FORGET , THE STREETS ARE SAFE BECAUSE EVERY NOW AND THEN WE ASK ALL THOSE NAUGHTY CRIMINALS TO CONSIDERATELY DROP THEIR GUNS AND KNIVES OFF AT ONE OF OUR MANY POLICE STATIONS , AND IF THEY ARE LUCKY WE GIVE THEM A BADGE AND A LITTLE LEAFLET ABOUT HOW GUN AND KNIFE CRIME IS SO NASTY .
DRUGS , NO PROBLEM , WE WILL GIVE YOU LOTS OF SHINY NEW NEEDLES TO INJECT YOURSELF WITH AND HELPFUL ADVICE ON HOW TO SAFELY TAKE DRUGS.oH AND DONT FORGET WE NEVER PROSECUTE ON THE FIRST OFFENCE.
LABOUR TOUGH ON CRIME, TOUGH ON THE CAUSES OF CRIME
DO ME A FAVOUR HA HA BLEEDING HA 
MR PASTRY
- Mr Pastry, london, 22/07/2009 15:19
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In Spain, there are security guards on the doors of most shops. There are many restaurants, cafes, bars with security guards.
- Dep, London, 22/07/2009 15:17
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"So does that mean extending opening hours has been another Nu-Labour success?"
Well, obviously - Yes
- Keith Price, Luton, England, 22/07/2009 15:03
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The only way we are every going to clear up the rot that has set in is to firstly build more prisons and ensure that offenders get a very long sentence, and make life a living hell in prisons, no t.v. bread and water only, no gym, no luxuries whatsoever. Prison doesn't work at the moment but it keeps them away from re-offending. Bring back National Service for all 18 - 20 year olds - girls as well as boys, to give them some self-respect, confidence, self-discipline and a trade. They'll be too busy and too tired to go out clubbing with a knife. Reinstate corporal punishment in schools and capital punishment for any murder. Parents will be completely and utterly responsible for anything their offspring who are under-age have done wrong so they will go to Prison for their child's misdemeanors. End all Social Security - get a job or starve (most of our tax goes on this huge slice of the governments money, sorry, OUR money). Get rid of the Human Rights Act and all this PC rubbish. The reason I no longer watch any programmes about policing is because at the end when they list what sentence they got for their crimes, they either get off with a warning or 20 hours community service. Big deal! That's really going to help reduce the crime rate. Remind the police that they are enforcers of the law and not social workers. A government should get tough and mean it. Unfortunately there is no political party prepared to do this so this country is just on a huge slippery slope.
- Sue, Orpington, Kent, 22/07/2009 14:37
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The Home Secretary should instruct the police to arrest the arch-criminal behind the recent rise in drink-fuelled violence. I believe her name was Jacqui Smith....
- Danny, London, 22/07/2009 14:26
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Its hard to believe that violence is fueled by drink in view of the high cost of it today and the reported closure of pubs caused by lack of customers.
T H Leeds
- Thomas Hayes, Leeds UK, 22/07/2009 13:58
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Increase the price of drink after 9 pm in pubs and clubs. Treble it for a start.
- Albert Hall, hove england, 22/07/2009 13:45
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We need to unleash a wave of unrelentent, remorseless agression towards this underclass. Bring back the troops from Iraq and the Middle-East and give them just one mission-objective:
Clean the streets and estates of this scum for good. Any methods, any means. They should have complete immunity from prosecution - and be answerable only to their commanding officers. The unemployed can be taken on to build the 250,000 extra prison places that may be needed.
Year Zero. It's the only thing that will work.
- Ged, Blackheath, London, 22/07/2009 13:41
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Many years ago Southend on Sea had a zero tollerance approach to youngsters. It had its own police force with a minimum height to join of 6 feet. As a result there was no serious drink or gang related crime. Southend became part of Essex police, the minimum height dropped (no doubt to accommodate ethnic minority intakes) and the wet left imposed its PC values on the force. Southend is now as bad as any of the town centres named in this article.
- Bj, London, 22/07/2009 13:22
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If you consider this government has decided it wants half of all young people to get themselves up to their eyeballs in debt at university, whilst at the same time failing to build sufficient houses yet allowing the gluteus maximus of the 3rd world to pour into this country and, along with the ever increasing white trash brigade, breed like it's going out of fashion, then you get a sense as to why most of those in the 18-35 age bracket are partying like it's 1999. It's the only thing that anaesthetise them from the fact they and this country have no future.
Of course, the politicians know they themselves have a future - they've given eyewateringly huge pension benefits, moats, duck houses, sex channels, second (and in some case third) houses, giant lawnmowers and pay everyone in their family tree £25k a year for 'consultancy', and a phalanx of riot police to accompany them every time they nip out for a kebab, whilst the rest of us sink in this pungent NuLabour mire.
Thanks Tony. Wish you were here.
- Da, london, 22/07/2009 13:15
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Its simple,Put Alcohol where it belongs IE classify it as the dangerous drug it actually is,in reality it belongs in group A of the drug classification table of dangerous drugs.Then reinstate the Death penalty for murder,so many posters here are right when they say the youth and not so youth full couldn't give a dam,well i think they would give a dam when in court they see the judge place a black cap on his head to pronounce the death penalty,and there parents would soon get the message,like wise there o so brave friends.Extraordinary measures for extraordinary times.But it wont happen because UK governments past and present are nothing but weak and cowardly and all spin and no substance,so until we get real government in the UK I'm afraid we will all have to live with the ever increasing threat of being stabbed by some neanderthal,and so will our Children to,nice.or of course we could all be given back are god given right to protect our selves by being allowed to carry registered fire arms,something i feel we will be doing irrespective of government permission in 10 yrs time anyway if things continue as they are!
- Kev, London-UK, 22/07/2009 13:11
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So does that mean extending opening hours has been another Nu-Labour success?
- Mark, London, 22/07/2009 12:52
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The symptoms have been described, so what about the cure?
First, make prison’s first time the worst time - isolation cubicles, water and basic sustenance - one month should do it for most budding criminals.
Second offence, 3 months the same, further offences should then be dealt with under the addiction/mental health act, only released when cured.
In order to deter criminal behaviour in the first place;
Mothers should share the first sentence - this may concentrate their minds before either breeding or letting their kids run out of control.
Also, don’t use FINES, CONFISCATE TV’s games consoles etc.
Also, we must re-introduce a scout-type arm of the army in order to instil discipline and vocational training - you’re in for three years, compulsory of course, leave with qualifications, team spirit and some dignity - a useful member of society, in fact.
Also. Return corporal punishment in schools.
Also, re-introduce capital punishment for the murder of children and police officers.
Obviously we would need to "look" at the EU court of Human rights, and amend accordingly.
We have had 12 years or more of offering the carrot - any government who is serious, on behalf of decent people MUST now try the stick.
David Cameron take note - Taxpayers have had enough.
- Darius Midwinter, London UK, 22/07/2009 12:49
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Lin@ Very well put! Totally agree...
I would also add that the image of the police has also be come 'soft' somewhat. There is no respect... no fear for the law! During my teens, I recall it was different.
I am for arming them as in other parts of the world. Jail is one thing but I think if carrying a knife meant you could potentially take a bullet... things might be different!
- Sanjay, Hounslow, UK, 22/07/2009 12:36
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Make the punishment fit the crime, with the special relationship between America & Britain. America having increased capacity of 2Million Units in their jails, the NWO may come to pass for everyones approval.
- William, Hay~Heath UK, 22/07/2009 12:13
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Bring back strong discipline into the schools and home. Parents should make certain their young children obey the parents' rules and create an atmosphere of respect. The yobs in schools have no respect for the teachers/staff and issue threats and menace. Schools have no power to discipline except for "excluding" them for short periods of time thereby giving them a "holiday" that the yobs revel in and purposely bring about by their obnoxious behaviour. Bring back the old ways, the discipline, the punishments. They worked. Having to write 500 lines and stay on after school to do it soon stops bad behaviour, so does caning, which incidently does not turn out neurotic vicious people. But lack of honour and discipline and rules certainly does.
- Lin, London England, 22/07/2009 11:45
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This is Jowell's Cafe society! Dontcha just love it!!!
- Steve, Brentford, 22/07/2009 11:44
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Booze in clubs isn't cheap; booze in supermarkets is. It's thirty years now since groceries were allowed to sell open-access alcohol, and this is the state we've reached. Putting booze back behind a separate, staffed counter won't provide all the anwers, but it'll make a big difference.
- Mdj E10, london uk, 22/07/2009 11:43
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"extreme leftwing liberalism"... what is that precisely?
Longer sentences won't put these kids off one bit. I work with them as a volunteer most weekends and they couldn't care less. However, longer sentenences would ensure they are off the streets for longer which is right for violent crimes.
However, throwing them into jail or youth offending institutions for non-violent offences doesn't work because they just get surrounded by more experienced criminals and never learn or rehabilitate. Yet when they get "community sentences" they are not properly enforced. There needs to be some radical '3rd way' - taking these kids to the middle of the countryside and be "indoctrinated" not to be thugs maybe? I don't know the answer... but anyone who thinks a change of government will do anything is living in a fantasy world. I have marginally more faith in a postman to know the score about street crime than an Eton toff.
- S T G, Peckham, London, 22/07/2009 11:35
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Couldn't agree more with Darius, I think he speaks for the silent majority.
As this government seemed to be able to make laws which allow pubs to open until all hours, why not, just for a year or two, stop the sale of alcohol at 9 pm in all urban areas?
It can't be difficult - unless your friends in the drinks and entertainment industry won't let you.
- Sarahn, London, UK, 22/07/2009 11:22
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The police are scared of the criminals on the streets. So they pick on ordinary, law-abiding people and start harassing them. Postman Pat should know this. Obviously he chooses not to remember. Hence appointing a lower tier of 'Marshals' and 'security staff' to do the dirty work for them so the police can erect arches and wave wands around. Only it won't work. What we'll see is a ton of dead Marshals and dead or disabled security staff and taxi drivers littering the streets instead. You can't cure a cancer by changing the sticking plaster. You have to cut it out, clean the wound and create the right healing climate. No hope whatsoever of this lot of twerps and bigots in government doing it - and that goes for you too Postman Pat.
- Judith C, London, England, 22/07/2009 11:13
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Reports by the fire and ambulance services have shown that in the last 10 years the number of incidents involving "yoof" attacks on them whilst carrying out their duties has risen dramatically.
These observations together with increases in other potentially serious "game" crimes, such as flashing lasers at aircraft, lumps left on railway tracks, thrown off motorway bridges etc. tell of a much more worrying trend of thought amongst many - apparent uncaring attitude to the tragedy or suffering of strangers.
This behaviour is due to several things, lack of limits set by parents, lack of male role models, feelings of insecurity because of lack of motherhood love in early years - leading to situation where the freinds (or "gang") become the family unit, strong bonds that should be there in the home.
Add the effect of latch key existence, uncaring mothers, "respect" culture (largely driven by MTV type messaging) disrespect for the female except as "meat" (MTV again) "girl power", alcohol and drugs.
Then of course is the well-publicised certainty fixed in their minds that Joe public and the Authorities cannot do much about it, `cause of Human Rights legislation - is it not surprising we have the situation we do today?
- Darius, London UK, 22/07/2009 11:10
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Ben Farrell, "extreme left wing liberalism" is as meaningless a phrase as "Nazi diversity tolerance" - almost by people on the extreme left are by definition as illiberal as they come.
In fact, it's pretty meaningless using terms like "left-wing" and "right-wing" to describe attitudes towards immigration, since economic logic suggests that the left should oppose it (because it affects social cohesion and depresses wages) while the right should champion it (if you support free movement of goods and services, you have no sensible reason for opposing free movement of labour). The fact that it's more often the other way round shows how confused and incoherent this whole debate has become.
- Michael, London, 22/07/2009 11:09
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Why is this so-called government always "targeting" the easy crimes?
- Georgie, Islington, London, 22/07/2009 11:07
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As usual this government of twerps and bigots is fiddling round the edges while Rome burns. You cannot cure a cancer this way. You have to cut out the cancer which is now embedded in society and start again. No hope they will do it whatsoever. They haven't got the intelligence, the will or the integrity.
- Judith C, London, England, 22/07/2009 10:52
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Alan Johnson looks like he's been out on the lash constantly himself, so by now he should know the problems.
- Rod, Epping, UK, 22/07/2009 10:52
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Let's hope that Postman Pat doesn't "target" a barn door with a blunderbuss from two yard, eh?
- Ted, London, 22/07/2009 10:38
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Either the powers that be are totally out of touch or they are hiding facts from us.
Everyone with a brain knows all this knife crime and subsequent murder has nothing to do with pubs and clubs. Yes you get brawls outside bar as you have done since the middle ages, but the epidemic of knife crime we see is commited by people who dont really drink, go to bars&clubs-Fact.
The culprits of knife crime are more likely to be hanging around the streets hunting victims to rob,beat and stab, most of the young people who go to bars are harmless, whereas the street gangs are an absolute menace who seem to be untouchable.
Take Romford, one of the areas in this scheme.
Most of the trouble is not the clubbers, its the gangs who travel out from inner-city areas, not to visit the nightlife but to loiter outside and wait for victims at closing time. I do think the govt. are really not aiming this in the right direction.
- Russell, London, 22/07/2009 10:26
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@ John Fadden: Threatening to jail all knife carriers will not stop people from carrying knives. Most kids carrying knives are more afraid of being stabbed than of going to jail. And most of those who go out with the intention of killing are generally so psychologically disturbed that they have little fear of anything, least of all being imprisoned.
- Charlie, Soho, London, 22/07/2009 10:06
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The extreme left wing liberalism of this government - that I voted for (hangs head in shame) is making our society more and more intolerant across the board. Kids will stab strangers 15 times in the heart for giving them a 'wrong look', and people like me are begining to want the death penalty back. No more ASBOs of Community Service. I want these kids dragged from their homes and thrown into jail. For too long, the government has pandered to the perpetrator at the expense of the victim. But this can only go on for so long until there is a natural shift. I would like to know how many UK nationals are guilty of stabbings, as opposed to how many migrants.
- Ben Farrell, London, 22/07/2009 09:53
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Close at midnight
- Ereed, Bournemouth,UK, 22/07/2009 09:53
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Isn't it about time that this Govt threw the rose tinted spectacles away. Every time their own initiatives come up with the wrong answer for them, they always state that the opposite is now true. Knife crime is coming down is it? Is this the same reaction by Inspector Knacker asis true up here. They claim violence has reduced in a particular area of my city. They can make this claim because a night club that held hundreds closed, and numerous late night bars have gone out of business. Ipso facto fewer violent drunks, so less crime. Actual incidents have gone down, which is claimed as a success by plod. If the incidents of violence per 1000 drinkers were recorded I doubt if any difference would be noticed. They are bending the stats to suit, as always.
- Alan, carlisle uk, 22/07/2009 09:02
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The quickest way to make knife carrying unacceptable is to jail knife carriers. The word gets around. Rubbish about the proverbial oil tanker has no place in fighting crime. Its terribly sad that good people are so let down by our system.Its such an insult to the families of kids killed by knives.
- John Fadden, London, England, 22/07/2009 08:50
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