Morning:
13°c
Too many black people are still being stopped and searched by police in spite of significant progress to improve officers' attitudes on race, MPs warned today.
A report by the Commons Home Affairs Committee also criticises the storing of a “blatantly disproportionate” number of black people's DNA on
the national database.
A further concern is the failure of police forces across the country to meet a national target for boosting the proportion of black officers within their ranks and similar problems in ensuring that those who do join can progress to senior posts.
The findings come in an analysis by the committee of the police's achievements on race since the publication 10 years ago of Sir William Macpherson's report on the murder of the
London teenager Stephen Lawrence.
The MPs say “tremendous strides” have been made by police since then and that 67 of the 70 recommendations for reform listed by Sir William
have been implemented either fully or partly.
Today's report warns, however, that serious problems still remain. On stop and search, the committee quotes official statistics from 2006/7
showing that black people were seven times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people, a deterioration from the situation at the
time of the Macpherson report when they were six times more likely to suffer this fate.
Similarly, the MPs highlight other figures showing that 30 per cent of black men are on the national DNA database — which stores the details
of all those arrested regardless of whether they are subsequently charged or convicted — compared
with around 10 per cent of Asian and white men.
On recruitment, the committee says police have met a national target that seven per cent of new entrants should be black, with the Met's figure running at 20 per cent, but warns that problems
still remain over the retention and progress of black officers.
This, the report says, has left the country with only one black chief constable, the former Met detective Mike Fuller who now runs the Kent
force.
In addition, only seven out of 202 nationally who hold the rank of Assistant Chief Constable or above are from ethnic minorities.
Other figures showing that black officers are more likely to be required to resign or suffer disciplinary action are cited by the report.
Unveiling today's findings, the committee's chairman, Keith Vaz MP, said: “We congratulate the police on the strides they have made in tackling the institutional racism identified by
the Macpherson report 10 years ago.
“However, while there is such blatantly disproportionate representation of particularly black people in the criminal justice system — in the use of stop and search or on the DNA database
— there will continue to be damage to community relations which in turn undermines police work.
“Any gains made by the use of stop and search, which we know can be very useful, risk being offset by its impact on community relations.
“We are also particularly concerned at the discrimination which apparently persists within the force, in recruitment and promotion of black and minority ethnic officers.
“The police service must now focus its efforts on tackling these issues within its own workforce.”
Reader views (37)
Reality shows that poor, black, hispanic, native american communities are targeted by the police. I live in Montgomery County, Maryland and often see these communities being harrassed. Just the other day a police car ran into a citizen, the guy was pulled from the car beaten, he was beaten by 5-7 police undercover men with black hoods over their heads only to reveal their eyes and they were all white men. It is unfair to make statements about a race when you clearly don't have the concrete experiences which plague these communities. More searching for correct answers and getting results which bring unity is what is needed.
- Terrye, Maryland USA
i got attacked this evening by 4 black youths...my indiscretion...walking past with a friend. they kicked a ball at us smashing a bottle of wine we had bought and i received several blows to the head for kicking there ball away at 2am....and people wonder why they are targeted.
- Derek, london
More crime is committed by Black and other Ethnic groups. Fact.
- Stephen Carter, Witney, Oxfordshire
Nolan, Londonist
You pathetic individual. Pulling the race card to cover hide from reality.
- Stephen Carter, Witney, Oxfordshire
Vince - that's just NOT TRUE, by any measure.
- Nolan, Londonist
It's quite simple, more crime is committed by Black and other Ethnic groups.
- Vince, London, West London
Wow, a report on how the police ‘unfairly target black people’ leads to a long list of comments saying they deserve it, a lot of nasty old racist lies get recycled and anyone who rejects this orthodoxy is called blinkered or "Fascist"!
Well, news flash! Most people in London hate racism. Most people in London just don't care about the ethnic origin of their neighbours as long as they behave. Most people just want a fair and effective police force, not one that harasses black children just because of the colour of their skin. Most people in London just want to get on with their lives in peace, free from the kind of bores who drag out their cranky racist hobby horse to stir up trouble at every imagined opportunity.
- Nolan, Londonist
Nonsense. Usual lefty lies.
People, no matter their colour, are stopped for good reason.
- Eoin Mcgreeghan, Derry, NI
Can anyone out there tell me where there is no racism on this planet please ?
- Joe, Swanley Kent
"Most black people support these initiatives because the victims of black criminals are disproportionately, black. The only people who complain are white middle-class liberal fascists, who treat ethnic communities as their political toys."
Danny, your comment is spot on.
- Angela, London
Political correctness is just lies. The politically correct hide behind half-truths, distortions and double-speak.
Is it really any wonder that ethnic minorities get stopped more? Here is one fact to face up to - of the 14 police officers killed in the line of duty since 1999, 8 were killed by ethnic minorities. That's 57% of the police officers killed over the last 10 years.
It is not the fault of the police or the wider community if certain sections of the population choose to commit crime. Why is it always the police and society that has to change? What about the communities causing the crime? Don't they have to change?
- Charles, Bath
Adrian, London -
No one is suggesting that ALL crime is committed by black men, but a disproportionate amount is - by African males in particular. It's not a good idea to try and twist people's words when they are down here in black and white for all to see, even if it is as a result of paranoia on your own part. It just means no one will take your point of view seriously.
- George Roberts, Leyton, London, England's Once Green and Pleasant Land
The reason there is a disproportionate representation of black men in the criminal justice system is because they commit a disproportionate amount of crime. This is even more evident for street crime, which is why they are stopped and searched more often. Most black people support these initiatives because the victims of black criminals are disproportionately, black. The only people who complain are white middle-class liberal fascists, who treat ethnic communities as their political toys.
- Danny, NW5
Darren - Thank you so much for so much sense.
I wish you all the very best and of course, peace.
- Dep, London
The Police are not istitutionally racist, they are institutionally politically-correct. They will grasp at any excuse to run away and hide from having to deal with ethnic minority criminals.
(Some) ethnic minority groups are disproportionately represented in the prison population because they commit a disproportinate number of crimes, particularly violent crimes. The demographics of stop and searches reflects this.
This may be anathema to the PC brigade, but that doesn't make it wrong. Stop and search is a valuable tool in the fight against crime and profiling should be used when it is employed. Remember, with the exception of terrorist lergislation, all stop and searches require at least "reasonable suspicion" that something may be found.
Ethnic minorities are more likely to complain because they know that the BBC, Gruniad and other politically-correct propaganda broadcasters will always side with them against the Police..
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster
"A further concern is the failure of police forces across the country to meet a national target for boosting the proportion of black officers within their ranks and similar problems in ensuring that those who do join can progress to senior posts."
a) they have to apply and meet the recruitment requirements
b) to progress they have to show ability and leadership
c) as quotas of racial types can be interpreted as a backdoor entry for less qualified people in any job, the best applicants and most suitable people in-job can be negatively labeled by that natural perception. That affects co-worker perceptions, public opinion, promotion prospects, credibility, self-belief, and ultimately, job performance (the 'why bother' factor).
No, it isn't a 'minor' issue.
As for the 'targetting of blacks' - look at the areas where the crime is taking place for the most part; where the criminals home turf is. Not such a mystery anymore. There's no question that more needs to be done to sort out the 'us and them' ghetto thinking of all concerned, but the people doing the crimes made a choice to do so. What happens to them is a direct result of their choices.
- Rogan, Irving
How depressing it is that even when confronted with real evidence, that some white people still insist that there is no such thing as racism.
- Nolan, Londonist
Nolan even Barrack Obama said loud and clearly this week to black Americans, "stop blaming race on your faliures"
Black people get stopped more, as more of them are involved in gun and knife crime.
And by the way white people are very aware of rascism, you see we get raciallly abused as well, or do people like you conveniently forget about this?
- P Staker, London
Maybe black males in london do get stopped, but there are white thugs, as well as Asian thugs...sounds like alot of naive people on here, carry on, maybe a black person will wlak by , if you are getting attacked by someone, what will you then say??
- Adrian, london
Sorry Nolan, you're as blinkered as Frank our resident Alf Garnett from the Home Counties. As a man of colour I readily acknowledge that there is bound to be racism in the Police service, simply because it is a reflection of society itself. I also recognise that from time to time members of the ethnic minorities will experience racism in their encounters with the Police. However, I am not blind to the increasing tendency among a sizeable minority of blacks to gun and knife violence. Are you actually aware how many black victims of violence there have been over the last five years, and how many of the perpetrators were black? It is a real problem that undermines black people and harms race relations. It really frustrates me when certain members of the black community choose to vent their bitterness at so-called racist Policing with no thought to the bigger picture. It is easy to cry foul, when you are not on the frontline, but what practical solutions do you have to tackle the culture of violence and death which is increasingly endemic in our society? Personally, I would rather have a Police force that is fearless, fair and proactive than one that has to tippy-toe around the sensitivities of PC brigade and their ethnic detractors.
- Patrick, London
Is Operation Trident disproportionate? Don't come back at me with Operation Trafalgar, it folded because there wasn't enough work, hell it doesn't even come up when you enter it in to the met's search engine.
- Gary, London
30% of London's population, committing 60 of London's crime, and committing 70% of the assaults on other black people. These are Met figures. As a black man, I would be angry if I wasn't being stopped.
- Jamal Akhbar, Edinburgh
Sounds to me like the police bashers are endeavouring to ensure they still have a job once the political climate changes.
Life is still unfair, more needs doing, racist police, oppression Blah Blah Blah. Oh and I need a shed load of money and another decade to sort it out. What a load of tosh.
- Gary, London
A few years ago, Police forces offered accelerated promotion to graduates, thinking this would give them a better access to a fair share of the nation's talent. What it did was create a privileged cadre, promoted possibly on merit, but possibly not. What this did for the morale of officers who'd slogged up the ladder from the streets on merit alone can be imagined. The result at the top is politically-savvy people like Sir Ian Blair, which is a mixed blessing.
To create yet another category which will be suspected of special treatment cannot be a healthy way of creating a force confident in its abilities.
- Mdj E10, london uk
Target all likly criminals - end off !
Now no doubt some 'ethnic types' will have a much higher incidence for some specific crimes in some areas, and where there is a significantly high incidence in one ethnic group that group (eg young male Muslems carrying rucksacks) will be stopped, searched and arrested more than those who do not have a track record of that crime.
The only way that these figures can be reduced is to not stop so many people, so if we do not stop people for knife and gun crime we might hope that the numbers of people involved will reduce through the natural wastage of death, injury and gang violence.
Perhaps this is the alternative that some communities prefer, because if we do not 'stop and search' likly perpetrators, that is the inevitable ending.
Personally I would rather 1000 people of one ethnic group were stopped and searched to find one gun, knive or bomb, rather than a murder or serious injury occurs because of that weapon.
If the wider ethnic community do not like being stopped and searched then do not allow the the youths of the community to become disenfrachised and dissaffected. The community owns the problem, shape up, take action and stop whinging about inequality.
- Jack, London
Feeling offended or upset is simply an emotional state, nothing more. You are not injured or scarred and you can choose to get over it. Some people do thrive on feeling offended and acting indignant, as though they are mortally wounded. Which is pretty much the excuse given by many of these murderers after they've knifed someone - that they've been disrespected, turning the whole thing into a vicious circle: they stab one another because they've been offended and now we're not supposed to search them even though they're a suspicious character in case they get offended? You couldn't make it up! Potential injury of feelings is the last thing that should be taken into account when choosing who to stop and search.
And Sallyr, London, UK makes a good point.
- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx
I've been stopped and searched in Westminster (near Picadilly) on a Saturady afternoon driving a Porsche (and I'm not a teenager) by a veritable United Nations of police officers. And when I asked them if this was "intelligence led policing" (sic) or just a quota, they looked pretty embarassed. I wasn't particulary upset that they "picked" on me knowing that it is PC driven stupid quotas that lead them to do this. What does bother me is that the police are wasting their (and my) time doing it. It's pretty obvious that anyone in London knows the score except Nolan who seems to be in denial about the reality of the problems. Give me the statistics of dead and the perpetrators this year in London please. And then explain why the police should not be even MORE likely to stop ethnic minorities. It's a sad economic fact that ethnic minorities are more likely to be poor, and that poverty breeds crime, but the Police are not and should not be, social workers or social engineers. The fatuous statistic of senior officers NATIONWIDE shows 3.5% from ethnic backgrounds. Not that far out of line with the population. The population in prison (ie GUILTY) is also higher, or are juries all racist as well?
- Jon, london
I am cynical. I am of the belief that the government's intention is to have all black people on their DNA database. Only last week it was reported that 90% of all black families are on their database. Down with Neo-Labour.
- Keith, Croydon
Its not just young black men that are being stopped, my partner and his friends (all in their 40's) who have been to Uni and worked hard to get where they are today are frequently pulled over by the police because they are driving a nice car. I, on one occasion, saw it for myself. My partner was pulled over for speeding (which he hadn't) and the Police ask questions such as: "what do you do for a living", "how can you afford to drive this car" - what does that have to do with being stopped!
Black males will have to get used to the fact that they will always be stopped and things unfortunately will never change.
- Kathy, London
Pete- you are a brave man to stick your head above the parapet and say that, we have all heard whispers about that case, so as you say there is probably more than we are being told, still a tragedy though.
Darren-same to you, very brave of you to also stick your neck out, good to hear from you.
- Russell, London
Sorry Paul, that's absolute rubbish. Stop and Search is not driven by a search for specific perpetrators. The fact that black people are more than 5 times more likely to be Stopped and Searched by the police - despite the fact that they are by far in the minority of the population - is not down to criminality, it's down to the racist attitudes of the police themselves. If you think they relate to actual crimes, ask yourself how many convictions follow from these Stop and Searches? An incredibly small proportion. It's harassment, pure and simple.
How depressing it is that even when confronted with real evidence, that some white people still insist that there is no such thing as racism.
- Nolan, Londonist
There is a reason that more Black people get stopped and searched than White or Asian people. It is that the police concentrate their efforts in areas that have a higher rate of knife crime. Unfortunately, these “Hot Spots” are predominantly in areas that have a higher Black population than white or Asian. Is it suggested that police should go to other areas that do not have a high a level of knife crime just to even up figures, or should we try and get the knives off the streets instead. I have been stopped and searched before, but as I don’t carry a knife around with me, I was not offended. Keep the stop and search going as it is making a difference!
- Darren (British Black Male), South-east London
Even after all these years we keep reading about Stephen Lawrence as if he was some latter day Nelson Mandella. Sooner or later the circumstances and the truth of what led up to that fateful confrontation will become public knowledge. Was one of the reasons why the DPP ordered the abandonment of the privately funded criminal trial of those accused because there were real fears that the defence teams would raise issues that were contradictory to what was being published for public consumption?. Let us not forget there is always two sides to every story, but the powers that be only want a one sided version to be made public. It is highly unlikely that there will ever be a criminal prosecution of those accused of his murder. But the Lawrence family, and their supporters, could always commence a civil action for damages against those accused(as in the O.J. Simpson case)where the burden of proof is lower than the criminal burden. However, the same unreported matters would still be raised by the defence teams which could paint a very different story of what happend on that evening.
- Pete, Croydon Uk
Isn't it time we concentrated on recruiting the best policeforce, not the most 'respresentative'? The police are simply focussing on a section of the community responsible for the majority of the crimes they are investigating. That's common sense isn't it? Or do we want them frisking grannies and disabled people so nobody is offended?
- Mark, London
Community relations?
When is the black community going to wake up and smell the coffee? Your young men are disproportionally the VICTIMS of knife crime. Every young black man searched for a knife reduces the chances of another young black man being murdered by the same.
And look into your own hearts and minds for the reasons behind this.
- Sallyr, London, UK
This is very interesting because a friend of mine was pulled over at gun point in the Old Kent Road on the spurious reason of jumping a red light. He hadn't jumped the red light, but the police proceeded to search him and his car and he continued to protest his innocence pointing to the fact that the surveillance/traffic camera would prove it and was then "released". A few days later the whole farce was played out again.
As my friend worked in the security industry he has a fair few policeman as friends. On speaking to some of them it transpired that white people are arbitrarily being stopped in order to "balance the books".
- Mark, South-East London
Yet more inconsistency from MPs and the Home Affairs Committee. Whichever way you look at it the simple reason why there is a disproportionate number of blacks than Asians or white people within the Criminal Justice system is because young black males are responsible for a disproportionate number of criminal offences from violent street crime right through to drug dealing. When a person is robbed or attacked they are normally able to provide the police with some sort of basic description. Often they are only able to provide details such as age, sex and ethnic appearance of their attacker. The police, quite naturally, look to stop and search any suspects fitting that description. Are MPs suggesting that they should be stopping and searching members of the public who bear no resemblance to the description provided, just to show they are not acting in a racist manner for the purposes of proportionality?. The easy answer is to accuse every victim of being a racist and refuse to act on their complaint when they describe their attackers as blacks. In this way the national crime figures will plummet, and statistic will be able to show that blacks are being disproportionately accused of criminal offences. In other words the national crime statistics can be turned completely upside down.
- Paul, South London
Seems to me the report goes to show that this is in fact a white country.
".. problems still remain over the retention and progress of black officers."
Oh dear me, more fast tracking of people based on colour not quality. Well the Met had better put aside a huge amount of money for the inevitable compensation claims.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
