• Dead: Soldiers return home from Afghanistan
• On leave: As the row rages, Defence Secretary goes on holiday
• Gallery: Welsh guards on Operation Panther's Claw
• Comment: If we want peace, we have to talk to Taliban
• Black day: Four bodies arrive home and two buried

Reader views (35)

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britain wants to fight wars on the cheap.

- Debottam Choudhury, India, 29/07/2009 03:01
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The reason that they are cutting back payments to the fallen is because they need the money the unemployed are not bringing into the system, Manchester is now filling to the brim with the imported unemployed and 'tacky' house fillers called 'Happy Homes' have put four immigrants into a room that was once open to just one bedsitter - four adults of different families in a bedsit the crime is horrendous and they collect their 'clients' from Manchester airport in luxury cars, get all the paperwork and then send them to their hovels and a brink of bankruptcy specimen is now a thriving multi millionair - all on the back of the deception that is hidden from view here by Council Officers doing the Goevernments blind eye.

Not withstanding that two years ago the Civil Service put 'savings' of 166 Million pounds into their pension fund at Whitehall, from the savings they made by not fitting proximity devices to snatch vehicles for our troops protection in Afghan and Iraq, and such clean ethical pension protection for the staff - where a typist there had half a million for tenosynivitus - She must have known the right Minister to get that!.

The losers are the immigrants coming to a life of the begging bowl and their faces are despair, the Benefits system not being funded any more, and of course our brave soldiers and other forces that are joining up - because they cannot get a job in England due to the post industrial revolution -the bankers are doing alright though!

- Terry Henderson, manchester, England, UK, 29/07/2009 00:15
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It is disgusting, but it not just "NuLiebor" as the foaming at the mouth, right wing numptys will have it. (I see the usual suspects are at it again).
It was ever thus, Thatcher didn't treat the returning Falklands vets any different, major after the Gulf war,The Tommies from the Great war were treated with callousness. maybe the returnees from 39-45 would have been better off under labour, but the middle classes betrayed them when their taxes went up and got the Tories in again.
Kipling got it right, "It's Tommy this and Tommy that, and Tommy 'ows yer soul?
But it's saviour of 'is country, when the drums begin to roll". perhaps Owen's line "the old lie Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori, holds true too.
let's see the middle classes put their hand in their pockets, and pay extra taxes to support our heroic armed forces. I guarantee given a referendum, you will vote no, and tell everyone you voted yes.

- Kerry Trubee, Purley, 28/07/2009 22:10
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Come on we must give the MPs credit...where will they get the money for their expenses, and pension from if not from crippled war heroes?

- S.White, Northampton+London, 28/07/2009 21:06
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thisis so bad this treatment of good men and women

- Alan Talbot, epping england, 28/07/2009 17:51
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This action of the MoD is tantamount to treason. How can serving soldiers feel when they know that petty bureaucrats will line up to stab them in the back at the earliest opportunity. Those who initiated this action should be fired with full loss of pension rights. They are a diegrace to their country.

- Peter Sykes, Knutsford, UK, 28/07/2009 17:47
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NHS help for veterans

At the Traumatic Stress Clinic, we at Camden & Islington Foundation Trust provide specialist evidence-based treatment for adults with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. We were established after the Kings Cross fire in 1987, and played a central role in responding to the 2005 London bombings.

As a part of this, we run a London-wide specialist NHS assessment service for veterans with service-related mental health difficulties (there are 5 other pilots across Britain).

As a highly specialist service, we rely on referrals from other services, though we do also accept self referrals. Referrals are increasing through both routes, but we are currently only scratching the surface.

If you know of anyone who could benefit from this service, please contact us on 020 7530 3666 or fax 020 7530 3677. A referral form for the veterans service can be downloaded from http://www.candi.nhs.uk/veterans/.

- Camden And Islington Nhs Foundation Trust, London, 28/07/2009 16:59
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I'd give an arm or a leg for there expenses

- Harry, London, 28/07/2009 16:59
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Presumably thus tawdry attempt to limit compensation to the war disabled and injured, is a portent of the priorities that Brown's government will operate when the time comes - which despite his lies will come - to cut expenditure. Plenty of cash for the PC brigade and the Labour-cloned public sector. Any one else can expect short shrift - they are only there to pay the tax bills.

- James Elliott, Eastbourne UK, 28/07/2009 16:25
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Sue, Orpington: have you lost anyone fighting in the services in the war? I'm closer to it than a lot of people who post on here and my husband was in Baghdad when my second son was born. I'm very sorry for your loss, if you, like Nina Babbington-Brown, have buried a son. I have never voted for any major political party in the UK as I have hitherto held them all in equal disdain: I think anyone who regularly reads these boards will have noticed that I am generally very critical of the current British Government: it has wrecked the country I loved and ruined my children's birth-right. However it is pretty small-minded to be anti everything it does just as a point of principle. I hope one day to afford to return to the UK - I cannot afford the houses near good schools like those in Orpington - and so keep an interest in what my British-passport carrying children may be saddled with. The logical conclusion to your argument is that the UK should only have an army to play around on Salsibury Plain and for ceremonial purposes. Give up when it starts to gets tough: how very 'modern Britain'. I'm with General Danat, who called for more equipment, not for withdrawal.

- Roz, France, 28/07/2009 16:22
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Raminder Bhalla: technically the campaign in Afghanistan is NOT a war - the Armed Forces are not engaged with another nation, they are there at the invitation of Afghanistan's elected Government to fight insurgents. What you propose - that the camps could be destroyed without going to war - is exactly what they are doing. The only thing you are wrong about is that is an easy thing to do. The work involved is not just destroying the Taliban's revenues from the Opium trade, but also to contain it in one area - a form of kettling, if you like - to make it difficult to train terrorists from other countries. It is also to be hoped they could try to delay or prevent Al Qaeda from getting its hands on Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

One of the biggest set-backs with the Afghanistan Campaign is that most people get it confused with the ridiculously unessential invasion of Iraq which, as a secularist, Saddam Hussein had kept Al Qaeda-free: the Labour Government entered into it without asking for the support of Parliament and without the international legal requirement of a declaration of war: it just blindly followed George Bush trying to avenge his father.

The story has changed since I first posted, to one of cutting the disgustingly paltry pay-outs these brave servicemen and women get when they are injured. I believe there is a statistic that for every 'man' in the field, 2 more are paid to work in Whitehall 'supporting' them. As usual, the money is mis-spent . . .

- Roz, France, 28/07/2009 16:01
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Meanwhile, back in the Met, an officer is getting a huge payout for "hurt feelings". Of course an ethnic minority person. Hurt feelings???? Yet our brave soldiers are having to fight against having their compensation devalued. Brown, his government,the EU twits and the laws of Human Rights should all be abolished. The MOD personnelresponsible for this action should be sacked. It is a disgrace.

- Lin, London England, 28/07/2009 16:00
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It really does make you wonder what planet these bureaucrats are on. If the soldiers hadn't been injured in the first place they wouldn't have developed complications as a result of their injuries. Hence there should be no distinction.

Only yesterday it emerged that a policeman received hundreds of thousands in compensation for a cut thumb. Hardly a week passes without someone being awarded compensation for hurt feelings.

I only wonder why so many are so willing to fight for this country when the MOD & Govt don't really give a sh1t for those injured or maimed as a result of their decisions to go to war.

The MOD are tying to save £60,000. They have probably spent more in legal fees than the soldiers have been awarded.

- Adam, Harrow, UK, 28/07/2009 15:57
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This moronic, incompetent, unwelcome government do not think twice about encouraging all manner of riffraff into this country and allowing them to milk our system with impunity. Yet they try to cut the pay-outs to those that deserve it the most.

When will we finally have had enough of Gordon and the rest of his talent less cronies? Apparently, we have to tolerate 10 more months of this lunacy.

- Xtremely Worried, Britain (No Longer Great), 28/07/2009 15:52
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Disgusting!
Any number of illegal immigrant rubbish claims for perceived breaches of their rights and NuLab can't give out taxpayers cash quick enough but when it comes to real deserving cases and this obscenity is what we get.
FIX IT Brown! For once prove Jeremy Clarkson wrong.

- Edgar, London, 28/07/2009 15:51
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"War is the ultimate form of capitalism".
And here is the government acting like a dodgy insurance company,trying to avoid paying out.

- Jimfred, London UK, 28/07/2009 15:51
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A WPC from the Met Police has just been awarded a 5 figure sum for hurt feelings, there were many others beore her who obtained much higher sums of money from public bodies for similar non-injuries. I don't remember civil servants, at the behest of NuLiebour ministers, challenging those payouts.
But then again, these "victims" all had politically-correct special status (and you know what that means), and were not just disposable cannon fodder.
NuLiebour have betrayed our troops and betrayed the people of Britain. Billy Liar and Peter Mandlieson knew that their project for the destruction of this country would have to be won through, or their necks would be on the line. That is why Bliar's first priority in government was to abolish the death penalty for treason and introduce the Wicked Witch's Human Rights Act, a charter for the protection of criminals.
The timing and nature of the MoD's action is nothing short of a national disgrace.
It has Britain-hating NuLiebour written all over it.

- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 28/07/2009 15:43
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Roz, I assume you have never lost anyone in the services fighting in a war then? You should come back to Britain and become a Labour MP as everytime you comment on this Board your comments are always alien to everyone elses! This is going to be another Vietman, bring our troops home now because this government is the pits!

- Sue, Orpington, Kent, 28/07/2009 15:17
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You can bet your sweet life that this inept government while trying to cheat servicemen, and women will be falling over itself to give money to illegal migrants.

- Vince, London, West London, 28/07/2009 15:10
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The war in Afghanistan was Blairs and Bushes war to control the poppy fields out there that funded terrorist camps, these camps could have easily have been destroyed without going to war, and its a pity that Brown thinks he can win a war in which even the Soviets had no option to pull out of.
Its a sorry day for england when we have an incompetent govenment in charge of our soldiers.
Maybe Brown would like to offer up his pension to compensate those familieis of the wounded and not just the dead.

- Raminder Bhalla, Northolt, 28/07/2009 14:52
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Is there no level that this self serving, media spinning, pocket lining, governement will not sink to??

At the same time as giving themselves more MP expenses, they have another go at our armed forces. This govenment sent them to a war without sufficent equipment and funding and then try a mug the wounded survivors. I would like to send the entire cabinet (togehter with thier sons and daughters (over 18))on a tour of duty in Helmand.

- Very Very Angry At Paying Tax For Mp'S Expeses, Home Counties, 28/07/2009 14:50
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Why not put a surcharge on the salaries of the MPs who feel that an injured British soldier has no value? Let's start with either 90%, or have THEM do a spell of 'duty' (a foreign word to the majority of politicians) in the war zone. That would soon shut their ignorant mouths and have the Milliband brothers running home to have their nappies changed.

- Lezli Taubler, London/UK, 28/07/2009 14:05
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WHAT NEXT REDUCED PAY FOR NURSES?
TALK ABOUT STICKING THE KNIFE IN, THESE BRAVE SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN HAVE GIVEN THEIR LIVES AND LIMBS TO FIGHT IN A WAR THAT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH US (APART FROM PM DOING ANYTHING THE USA ASKS)
WITH STUPID PAYOUTS BEING GIVEN FOR MINOR CLAIMS OR IN THE CASE OF FAILED BANK BOSSES (RBS TO NAME BUT ONE)£MILLIONS OUR TROOPS ARE BEING USED AS PAWNS.

- Mike, London England and once GREAT Britain, 28/07/2009 13:53
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Phil, I well understand your feelings: I think it must be the most tortuous thing to have a child in the Armed Forces and I certainly don't want my sons following in their father's footsteps. However, it is the nature of the occupation that a soldier has chosen. A couple of years back when Britannia was Cool, the British Economy appeared to be racing and everyone thought Labour was marvellous, British soldiers didn't even get dedicated hospital wards and were spat on in the street - the Grateful Public didn't give a tinker's about bodies coming home: I recall some comments on here even said they deserved it. Now we all hate Labour and there's a Recession, The Grateful British Public has changed its opinion to be anti-anything-Labour. The 'National Threat' of war transcends party politics - hence Parliament should vote on whether to go to it - it cannot be left to the vaguaries of Public Opinion. The NHS is rubbish and the education system is failing, but The Grateful British Public does not summarily demand the end of free healthcare or State Education. The disgrace, as always, is the British Government sends its forces to war with rubbish equipment and not enough back-up and resources. It would be better to clarify the objectives of the campaign, to fund the operation properly and to ensure a job well done than to withdraw prematurely.

I admire and respect your family members for their choices and that is why I support them doing their work.

- Roz, France, 28/07/2009 13:50
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What sort of cretins do you have for politicians who commit their country to war and rape the expences system and fill their pockets with cash,while they spend their time in Parlt reducing their soldiers pitiful compensation. Shame on you Britain. I lived there for a number of years and the people in the Uk are great but they are let down by the corrupt Mandelsons and Browns`
Denis Groves

- Denis Groves, Blairgowrie,Australia, 28/07/2009 13:14
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surely there's something wrong here,a sikh woman, part of the ethnic minority,joins the police force,feels discriminated and is awarded compensation.No one in the governmant says anything about it and it happens over and over again.A young englishman joins the army he's out of work,hasn't the chance of joining the police force because he's not part of the ethnic minority. HE's sent to afganistan,gets shot,the wound causes subsequent health problems .The government then tells him that they want to reduce his compensation.

- Linda, italy, 28/07/2009 13:10
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No Jo: but am married to someone with specialist skills who is on the 'Reserve List' to die defending you in the event of a war closer to home - or, indeed, Afghanistan.

- Roz, France, 28/07/2009 12:30
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This is all you can expect from a grasping Labour Government,cut,cut,cut.We had it after the war again in the 60's and now.They and there friends can feather thier nest but the public can go to L.

- P Klitofsky, Sutton in Ashfield,England, 28/07/2009 12:26
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Well said, Real, London. Roz, France. I have family members serving in Afghanistan. I want them home, safe. I couldn't give a toss about the "liberty" enjoyed by "the rest of Afghanistan outside Helmand" - if these people want liberty let them sacrifice their own sons and daughters, not ours.

- Phil, London, UK, 28/07/2009 12:22
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I agree with you Manny and Real. Our soldiers are being sacrificed on purpose. The EU doesn't want the British Army in England while it is being destroyed. Better to have them killed in Afghanistan ensuring a high body kill by not supplying them with the correct kit and then asking them to do the impossible.

And to you Roz, France are you sure you are not really a government mole who is paid by the taxpayer to carry out misinformation.

- Jo, London, England, 28/07/2009 12:12
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Real's right. Afghanis can't hurt us as long as they're in Afghanistan. The real threat comes from within thanks to the government's policy of unfettered immigration and benefits for all and sundry (unless you're an injured soldier of course)and a judicial system that makes deportation an extremely difficult and lengthy procedure.

- Ab, London, 28/07/2009 12:05
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The compensation awarded to these soldiers is paltry in comparison to the money being milked by MPs through expenses.
This government stumbles from one bad decision to another...But I don't think the Tories would be any better.

- Mark H, London England, 28/07/2009 11:55
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I disagree Manny: they may pay their respects to fallen heroes and their families, but that does not show how they feel about the war in Afghanistan. The risk of death is inherent in the job and all wars turn unpopular when bodies return home. The sacrifice is made as part of a greater good: look at the liberty now enjoyed by the rest of Afghanistan outside of Helmand, and the global decline in Al Qaeda activity.

- Roz, France, 28/07/2009 10:56
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Stop killing our young men, get them the hell out of this pointless war and start confronting the real issue - how the 'Taliban' (if indeed there is such an 'organisation') fund themeselves. By selling heroin on OUR streets here in the UK. Stop allowing Afghan, Turkish, Palenstinian and Pakistani mass immigration into this country, get rid of the vast numbers of illegal immigrants, stop selling arms to people who sell arms to them. And see what happens.

- Real, London, 28/07/2009 10:54
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Start counting the members of the general public who turn out to witness the return of the bodies from Afghanistan.

As they pay their respects by attending the arrival and witnessing the funeral cortege, they give an independent insight into how the public feel about the war in Afghanistan, and the sacrifices being made there.

- Manny Goldstein, London, UK, 28/07/2009 10:08
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