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Peter Mandelson is prodding at an interactive plasma screen at the Visual Planet company, oohing and aahing at what advanced manufacturing can do for Britain. It's everything New Labour loves - cutting edge, meritocratic and not a recession-hit smokestack industry.
The Business Secretary is pin-neat in polished loafers and says that British industry should be "stabilised, workable," and its products "shouldn't go wrong". Wouldn't it be nice if the Government found itself in the same reliable condition?
"Stability comes from strong policy - that stops a sense of drift," he says. "It is workable if the Cabinet is joined up and we won't go wrong if our values are seen as dependable." This is Lord Mandelson as the quick-footed, fluent communicator Mr Brown rejoiced to have back onside.
But we are meeting a few days after another by-election disaster for Labour in Norwich and a grim public mood. He insists this "wasn't a litmus test" for the Government.
"People are impatient to get out of recession," he admits. "They can't judge Gordon by his results yet, but I hope by the election, they will."
As for the march of Cameron and the Tory babes, it does look hard to stop. "Gordon's appeal lies in his grasp and seriousness," he says. "I know Cameron does well in his performances on television but the Prime Minister has the grit and the determination and he will be proved to have done a brave thing in the way he tackled the banking crisis when others stood aside."
Preaching the gospel of Gordon with fluency is one thing: entering a campaign for a fourth term with an unpopular government another.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. So what about a candidates' TV debate - always called for by opposition parties, and invariably resisted by governments?
The man in charge of honing the election campaign sounds rather hot to trot - and for the first time, strongly indicates he would like it to happen.
"I don't think Gordon would have a problem with that. While Cameron is good with words, he doesn't have the ideas or policies to back them. I think people would see through the smile. The more the public sees of them, the more they'd realise that Gordon is the man with the substance.
"Whatever else he has, Cameron lacks substance and he might come across as someone who exudes effortless superiority in public, but loses his rag in private." And for good measure: "The more his shallowness is shown up, the better it will be for Labour."
Number 10 sources confirm that there is now serious consideration of a TV debate, with some strategists urging the PM to take the initiative.
However, Lord Mandelson concedes that the Conservatives did succeed in pushing Labour into a corner by suggesting that Mr Brown was digging in against economies after his borrowing spree.
"I'll give him the point. We should have been faster in realising how they were attempting to define us. Of course we will prioritise and economise - we are fiscally responsible." Still, it does sound as if tutoring Gordon in the public arts is rather uphill work. "Well ideally in politics, you have razzmatazz and brainpower together," he says carefully. "I'd say, neither of the two has a monopoly on both. But I don't believe you can spray on glitz, glamour or razzmatazz. We won't do that.
"We have to fight back and fight our corner. You can get so consumed by government that you forget to present what you do to the public. Our organisation has to be better, we have to campaign more effectively - and give a clear message."
Or put the other way round: they just have to be a lot better at what they do. He doesn't demur: emphasising he wants to attend to the "morale of the party" over the summer and "better demonstrate what we are doing and why".
"There is a very large cohort of students who have gained admission from lower grades and then do better than many expected. I don't want to tell the universities what to do - but I do think they should dip into this wider context."
Would he suggest that poorer students should gain access with less good grades, risking a bias against well-prepared, privately-educated pupils?"That's for the universities to decide. But grades are not the best or only guide to who will thrive.
"I want to create a system of sustainable finance," he says. "If higher fees were recommended (by a new review), everyone should think about how that would go hand in hand with pupils going to university who might lack the means or background to do so."
That sounds suspiciously like a threat and a promise combined for the Ivy League: more money for accepting more pupils, if necessary with lower grades.
But he takes issue with his boss over the highlighting of the Laura Spence case - the Oxford applicant who became a cause célèbre after Gordon Brown publicly attacked Magdalen for failing to give her a place.
"I don't think using individual cases always help you to make good policy. You make bad policy decisions that way."
Still, something is eating at him, to judge by his vehemence, so I ask about his own history of applications and there's a slight shudder. He was a bright boy at Hendon grammar and only the second member of his family to go to university, after his brother Miles.
"The head didn't think I was suited to Oxbridge, though the school had a strong link with a Cambridge college. He called me an 'industrial militant tearing apart the fabric of the school' and didn't want to impose such a creature on the college."
Encouraged by an economics teacher, he applied to Oxford: "I thought I'd be happy in a modern college with a high state school intake. But I ended up at a place founded in the 13th century and when I got there, it had a reputation for being devoted to rowing, rugby and beer-drinking. I promptly applied for a transfer to St Catherine's." There he was "much happier".
But he believes schools should push harder for their pupils. "Oh yes, schools should be much more ambitious. But you have to see that poor students do feel the kind of anxiety I felt: and they fear that it might all be too strange for them .
"Pulling away the psychological and social barriers that hold people back is important - as are financial means." That unmistakeably precise Mandelsonian way of speaking has its comic side. I ask where he's going on holiday and he replies very precisely: "I haven't ruled out Greece, " as if it was a policy decision. "Good news, Secretary of State," says an aide as we hurtle back towards London. "We've found your iPod at the office."
In general Lord Mandelson is far more relaxed now than in the days when he seemed to court drama. He says he's been unfairly pilloried for being a party animal. "I don't party, I have early dinner and I go to bed at 10 o'clock on a Saturday."
"I ended up with a reputation for being around the rich and famous, which was necessary to the job I was doing in reshaping Labour's image."
Now on Saturdays, the glamour extends to running up Primrose Hill with the dogs. "So if you see a panting figure entangled with two dogs at the top, that will be me."
He's in charge for a week when the PM goes off on one of his spartan British holidays, and speaks at one point about "the resumption of my friendship with Gordon", with evident pride.
But what of the argument that Labour might be in a better position if Mr Brown was replaced?
"I don't see anyone who has the grasp or appeal to make that a sensible argument," he insists. Later he name-checks the Miliband brothers as the two Cabinet figures whose company he enjoys and suggests an avuncular interest in their careers.
"They tease me a lot". He says of Ed Miliband's speeches on the low carbon economy: "He actually gets lots of people to come along and hear him. So don't tell me people aren't interested in what we have to say."
Several times I ask if he really thinks Labour can win. "I'm not predicting the outcome of the next election, but I do know that this next election is a clear choice. People will see that. So I'm not one for giving up. We'll fight back in the autumn. You'll see."
Reader views (6)
With Mr Botox himself in charge the televised event encircling Mr Brown & Mr Cameron, will show the Nation that a right couple of public school twits is all we have between damnation and utter ruin.
- William, Hay~Heath UK, 30/07/2009 07:28
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Lord Meddlesum spouts yet more spin and waffle.
Every day we are confronted with this unelected manipulator spouting tripe.
Get lost Meddlesum.
The General Election cannot arrive fast enough.
- Reuben Camara, Republic of Morecambe, UK, 29/07/2009 21:54
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Mandelson is a complete fool, Roll on next year.
- Carol Bowring, Tunbridge Wells Kent, 29/07/2009 17:53
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"lord" Mandelspin really has become a caricature of the person he was in '97.
It would be funny if he wasn't in charge.
- St, London, 29/07/2009 14:14
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Looks like yet another bad day for Gordon. Whoever came up with the idea of leaving Mandleson in charge of the sinking ship should have at least armed him with a plug to try and stop more water leaking in, instead of which he seems to have armed himself with an automatic drill, which will not sink the boat even faster, but also scupper the Captain's chance of survival as well.
But who knows, maybe this is exactly what the First Mate, Mandleson, has in mind? After all, he is in charge of the life-boats while the Captain is scrubbing the lower decks isn't he?
Can he really be serious about Captain Gordon facing David Cameron on TV? The only thing he would come out on top with, would be gurning.
Sorry Mandy, if you really want to be the new captain, you must remember that he always goes down with the ship......Bye bye....
- Peter Thurgood, London, UK, 29/07/2009 12:57
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So, 'Gordon tackled the banking crisis when others stood aside', er, no one else could do anything because they did not have the necessary majority in parliament. As for Mandelson attending to the 'morale of the party' shouldn't that read 'Morals of the party', and get saviour Gordon to do what he actually promised. i.e. to reform the MP's expenses system, not give them carte blanche to apply for their £25 per night, no recipts, laddle full of gravy. This shows that Gordon is a man of substance, but the substance he would appear to be full of reminds me of a bear that plays with Pigglet.
- Al, Kingstown UK, 29/07/2009 10:46
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