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Second Tory moans 'being an MP is an expensive business'
Paul Waugh, Deputy Political Editor13 Aug 2009
David Cameron's bid to defuse the Alan Duncan expenses row was derailed today when another Tory MP complained about his salary.
The Conservative leader publicly slapped down Mr Duncan for claiming MPs had been forced to live on "rations" since the allowances scandal.
Mr Cameron made clear he was furious with the shadow Commons Leader, but within minutes backbench grandee Sir Patrick Cormack was also bemoaning the cost of being an MP.
Sir Patrick said Mr Duncan had been "unwise" to get caught by a green activist complaining about the current plight of Parliamentarians.
But he told BBC Radio 4's World at One programme that he agreed with his colleague's fear that high-quality candidates, especially those in the City, were being deterred by the £64,766 salary for MPs.
"The fact is that being a Member of Parliament is an extremely expensive business," Sir Patrick said.
"One is expected to give liberally to all manner of charities, one is expected to attend all manner of events, one is expected constantly to be putting one's hand into one's pocket.
"It is a public service, it is a vocation and you don't go in it for the money."
Sir Patrick acknowledged that an MP's £64,766 salary was "a great deal of money to a great many people" but added "we are all different, we all have different demands and aspirations and those should be recognised".
Tory activist John Strafford said Sir Patrick's remarks were perhaps "more offensive" because he had been serious, whereas Mr Duncan had been joking: "He demonstrates how out of touch he is with ordinary people.
"MPs are in the top three per cent of salary earners in this country. To say you can't be an MP because you are not wealthy enough is just ludicrous."
The ressurection of the row came as Tory MP Anne Main faced deselection for her role in the expenses saga.
Her case is being investigated by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards but some local Tories believe her 1,361 majority could be wiped out by the allegations.
A meeting of St Albans Conservative Association's 300 members has been called to decide whether Ms Main should stand at the next election.
It is understood that the 52-year-old MP, who won the seat from Labour in 2005, will address the meeting.
The party's scrutiny panel has deferred ruling on Ms Main's expenses while an investigation by standards watchdog John Lyon is continuing.
Some Tories privately hope Ms Main's deselection would allow Mr Cameron to get back on the front foot over the expenses affair.
The latest row started yesterday when the Standard reported how Mr Duncan had been caught on secret video claiming MPs were being forced to "live on rations" and had been "treated like s**t" in the wake of the allowances scandal.
Former standards watchdog Sir Alistair Graham today said the millionaire MP's remarks, for which he has apologised, were "offensive" to those struggling in the recession.
As shadow Commons Leader and Tory representative on the Members Estimates Committee, which sets the rules on MPs' expenses, Mr Duncan is responsible for leading his party's line on the clean-up.
Senior colleagues believe his remarks now make his position untenable.
Labour MP Sir Stuart Bell said he would be asking the Speaker to remove Mr Duncan from the Commons expenses panel.
Reader views (48)
Alan Duncan..... what's the public perception of this leading Conservative MP after his latest public gaffe..?
'Smug, arrogant liberal snob' who thinks he can say what he likes in the new trendy liberal Conservative party. If David Cameron does nothing after the second public gaffe in such a short time, the first on the BBC programme; Have I got news for you', when he called an American model, a 'silly b**ch' just because he didn't agree with her views, he then made a terrible joke about killing her! This summed the man up for me, even though it was dismissed as humour at the time, but in my view it was a terrible message to send out when there are so many cases of violent abuse from men towards women in the UK. Sick humour of this kind is just not funny.
Alan Duncan is a walking liability and he could cost the Conservative party millions of votes; if the British public think he represents the new David Cameron liberal trendy progressive tory party!
This is not the kind of change the public are looking for. By not acting against this liberal tory whilst acting against a number of old traditional tories, shows weakness and double standards from David Cameron. The opposition will be sure to exploit this at the next election.
- Simon Icke, Aston Clinton, England, 14/08/2009 14:00
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Nothing wrong in what Sir Patrick said. The headline speaking of him 'moaning' is just newspaper spin- he was expressing a serious point, and a fair one at that. In amongst all the hype of the expenses 'scandal', it seems to have become outrageous that an MP should have a second home, for instance. Rubbish- it's a necessary fact of the job, given that they effectively have two places of employment. If you just give MPs a bare £64k salary, with pared-down expenses, it will hardly attract the best people. It's a simple fact. In all professions you pay the going rate for the job- a lawyer should get a lawyer's wage(not a bartender's), a tube driver should get a tube driver's wage(not a Chief Executive's); likewise, an MP should get a wage commensurate with his position and responsibility. The pack mentality over the whole expenses saga- still rumbling on in non-stories such as this- shows how much like sheep most people in Britain really are.
- Richard, London, 14/08/2009 00:29
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Duncan may be a muppet, but he's right on one thing. MPs are not paid enough. We want the best people we can get to run the country, not the third rate muppets we've currently got. So, first, let's get rid of the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies and 250 seats. We need aabout 400 Mps, each with a constituency of around 150,000 people. That's plenty enough to form a government and opposition.
We then pay the MPs £150,000 per annum each with no allowances, no second or third or fourth jobs, no second home allowances, no freebies, no "sponsored" overseas trips. That's the money - get on with it. We fix parliament terms of 4 years whilst we're at it too.
- Bob, Oxford, 13/08/2009 22:15
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..And what is the minimum salary in this country?
Who decides it?
Is it really a democracy?
"Give them cake!"
- Loli, London, 13/08/2009 17:26
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All of you saying "roll on the election" will all be voting for the Tories or so you have been saying, so what will change? The greedy party will be back in power and screwing you as they have always done.
- Kerry, Purley, 13/08/2009 17:04
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So it's an "expensive business", is it? Well, it's your career choice, so put up with it or get a new job.
- Toby Johnson, Hastings, England, 13/08/2009 17:04
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For £65K you would expect more tact and diplomacy from the position. A demonstration of stupidity is certainly not the best way to ask for a pay rise. David you need smarter people on board otherwise you will spend all your time just cleaning up.
- Walt, Edinburgh, 13/08/2009 16:58
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Isn't this a great reason for electoral reform? At the 2005 election, Alan Duncan's majority in Rutland and Melton was 13,000 and he had over 51% of the vote. With a majority of that size he could do or say almost anything and would still get back in. If we had a PR system then the days of "safe seats" would be over and there would be a real choice for people in every constituency to "vote the rascals out".
- Paul Murray, London, England, 13/08/2009 16:47
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So, Mr Duncan finds it difficult to survive on his salary of around £64K. I earn about a third of that. My elderly mother has an annual income of about a tenth of Mr Duncan's salary. She also has a number of health challenges and badly needs help in the house. The authorities say she has to pay - out of her annual income of less than £6,500 - for that help. It will come to about £25 per week. Do the math, as they say. We can pay MPs generous expenses, billions to keep our banks going and billions to fight wars that don't make any sense. We can't look after our old and poor people. It seems to me that if you are poor, then it's just your stupid fault. The arrogance of people like Mr Duncan is simply breathtaking. Roll on the election!
- Rose Winter, London, England, 13/08/2009 16:40
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If Cameron was with the public. Duncan would be gone.They are all bad as each other
So this is the new clean holier than holy conservatives
If it gets much worse with Labour and Conservatives BNP will start to look good
- Terence Mccarthy, South Africa, 13/08/2009 16:08
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Cameron has jumped in too quickly after his holidays,he will regret his hasty decision later.Duncan is too visible for all the wrong reasons at the moment,alas it is a bit late now.Good leadership is fair,consistant and where firmness is required then that to.Dave do you really expect people to vote for Duncan now?
- Tithonus, Athens Greece, 13/08/2009 15:42
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Just get rid ofhim you say? That should be entirely down to his constituents. In the long term, every democracy has the politicians it deserves.
- Kevin Lynch, London, 13/08/2009 15:34
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See cameroon has backed him up, it was a silly thing to do,and you dopes are going to vote this shower in to run the country!!! god help us.
- Steve, England, 13/08/2009 15:01
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65K is not enough for you, you are a disgrace! Lots of people myself included live with milk and cheap pasta daily, and have to sell own jewllery to raise cash to pay gas and electricity over 73/month. Not to mention paying high rent for 35sq metres hole. What a parasite!
- Rosa, London, 13/08/2009 14:33
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Due to the daily stories regarding corrupt and incompetent MP's, I'm exhausted and eagerly waiting on my departure date...
I've started a petition for a new party titled the "Dream Team", which would include Jeremy Paxman as PM, V Cable as Chancellor and J Clarkson as Speaker of the House...
- Andre, london, 13/08/2009 14:12
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Funny how the comments here are full or bile but no real solutions. 1. reduce the number of MPs to 400 and have a 2 term limit 2. keep the same level of pay to attrct better quality people 3. allow proper expenses for office, staff etc but nothing else. 4 this is not a party issue - plenty of wealthy Labour MPs doing all sorts of wrong claiming 5. funny how the Tory leaders are decried as 'public school toffs' - remind me- where did Tony Blair go to school?
- Peter Bench, London, 13/08/2009 14:10
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Anne Main has been bleating for weeks in the local papers of St Albans about how she should keep her job because she's been doing it properly. In other words, she thinks it's irrelevant she's been caught out for dishonesty. It has also been all over our local papers how when a neighbour reported her for rarely being in St Albans, she hammered on his door and then shouted at him that he'd caused her to lose her job. Not a nice lady methinks. The neighbour himself was unemployed at the time so he must have felt like he was having insult heaped on injury. Apparently she has made more of an effort to be seen since all this came to light. Personally I hope they chuck the book at the thieving old bagggage.
- Lynn, St Albans, Hertfordshire, England, 13/08/2009 13:53
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You hit the problem on the chin, Michael.
The UK political system is locked into a downward spiral.
We have a choice between a party that pretends to care for the poor versus a party which partly does but is mislead by a chronic depressive & a party which sabotages it's chances of winning.
I suggest you form a think tank & present your question t the british public. If they can't think outside the box britain is a sinking ship.
- Oilthieves, bucks, 13/08/2009 13:24
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Jon - Devon,
A flippant remark?? If you had heard the venom with which this comment was made, you would not be saying that. He meant it, and said it with a vengence.
- Anthony Heath, Godalming, Surrey, 13/08/2009 13:22
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Alan Duncan is using the same argument being used by bankers who say they need huge salaries to attract the best talent. Well Mr Duncan, wake up and smell the manure! It was these overpaid and over bonuses bankers who got us into this mess. So the money = talent argument obviously doesn't work. If you pay peanuts you won't get monkeys who need their moat sorting. At least they will have an understanding of how real people live!
- Bleeding Heart Liberal, London, 13/08/2009 13:22
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Private and public - the two faces of the Tory party. Cameron was in advertising previously and I can't help feeling he's trying to sell us the Emperor's new clothes.
The opposition is made up of a clique of millionaires who have no idea of how the rest of us live - their claim to be progressive is quite frankly galling when you see the motley crew of misfits they have hooked up with in Europe, and their claims to care for the NHS and education slightly nauseating.
I hope Cameron keeps Duncan, he is like Osborne and Clarke, a walking liability.
- Steve S, London, 13/08/2009 13:02
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What I find to be very depressing is that in all probability we will get rid of that shower of incompetents called 'New Labour' in June at the latest, only to be replaced by a government which will be equally as incompetent, and, indifferent to the electorate. We deserve, and, should demand real change in policies, transparency, accountability, etc., not just a change of faces at the top table. We are not going to get it, and, sadly we know it, but are complicit in this masochistic charade we call a general election/democracy, by taking part in an election which offers the same options as Henry Ford offered when selling the Model T 'any colour you want as long as it is black'. We really do, as a nation get what we deserve!
- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 13/08/2009 12:58
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Alan Duncan should have chosen his words more wisely, not for the first time either.
however his point was entirely valid, and won't be going away with sensationalised overreactions.
Quality people can and do earn a great deal more than £65K.
- Scotty, london, 13/08/2009 12:51
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SOS PLEASE HELP GREAT BRITAIN.
DOES THIS INDIVIDUAL REALISE THAT IF HE IS ON RATIONS , THEN THE MAJORITY OF CITIZENS IN THE UK ARE ON HALF RATIONS AND IF THIS IS THE CASE THEN HALF RATIONS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME AND INDEED THE REST OF THE VOTING PUBLIC.
The only way the tories will get my vote , is if they put me on FULL rations on par with their M.P's so that i can live out the rest of my frail dotage on champagne and caviar, and if i am lucky the odd truffle vindaloo (and the odd sturgeon for my cat tinsletown).
WHAT DO THESE M.P'S TAKE US FOR .
MR (OFF TO BRIGHTON FOR A JOLLY UP) PASTRY
- Mr Pastry, london, 13/08/2009 12:41
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Judging by his mandarin orange colour he looks very similar to Lilly Allen and the rest of the dumbclots.
- Jim, Barking, England, 13/08/2009 12:22
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Jon, Devon
It might be seen by you as a "flippant remark", but to me it's a millionaire who for years never had his feet on the ground. What do we want from our public servants? I'll tell you....to understand the problems real (and progressivly poorer) people have, and try to address them. This divvy isn't capable of understanding true life so must be got rid of.
Mr. Cameron, are you actually listening to us, or just sitting back hoping the General Election will go your way? It's called lazyness and arrogance. And Heathrow should NOT be expanded, and Crossrail MUST go ahead.
- Rod, Epping, UK, 13/08/2009 12:19
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It's almost certain that Alan Duncan was simply voicing what the vast majority of MPs also believe. They are finding it very hard to come to terms with the gravy train halting. The good news, guys and girls, is that within the next six months the gravy train will be rolling again- a way will be found to let your hand grope around in the sweetie jar!
- Peter, Surrey, 13/08/2009 12:17
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"They cannot avoid an election indefinitely. When the time comes, the opportunity will be there for us to get rid of the parasites."
Yes, but what do we do when they're ALL like it. At the next general election all we'll do is swap one self-serving group of "honourable members" for another.
- Michael, London, 13/08/2009 12:13
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I've never like Alan Duncan, so wouldn't be too bothered if he went, there was always an angry streak in him.
There is some truth in what he said though, we really need some competent people in governent, not just at the level of MP's, but lower down the chain as well. Why do you think the tax payer is constantly being shafted when negotiating public-private contracts? Simple answer, the companies have highly skilled negotiators who know their stuff, the government has tea at 4.
Personally I'd like to think of the government as UK PLC, and I'd be happy to reward the CEO with a million quid if they can deliver a "profit" for the share holders (us). I keep hearing how out of touch the MP's are, and it's true, but at the same time I don't think having experience of living on a council estate is necessarily what you need to run the country. We need fewer career politicians, they are the out of touch ones. Was it Bob Ainsworth who recently said "I'm not as bright or experienced as the generals, but...". Ditch Bob and get one of the generals in.
- Ian, london, 13/08/2009 12:07
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Goes to show same old tories as the ones we booted out in 1997 so dont be fooled into thinking they have changed.
Anyway why has he not had the whip removed or better still 40 lashes!!
Best solution given an election is next year is to sack this one and allow long term unemployed some work experience at being an MP. Afterall there will be a load of vacancies to be filled at the next election.
- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex, 13/08/2009 11:49
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The Tories have returned to type. No amount of sticking plasters applied by Cameron and the Smith Square spin-doctors can disguise the narural inclination of thir MP's to fiddle us for all its worth.
- Keith Price, Luton England, 13/08/2009 11:44
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Same old tories nothing has changed.
- Dwayne Gordon, london, 13/08/2009 11:24
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Disgraceful and insensitive - ok it was secret filming, but would he have made a racist joke "in private" - it doesn't excuse the crass inapprropriate nature of his comments at a time when millions are making do in times of adversity - to complain when he's generously paid - ignorant fool - if Cameron wants any respect from voters he needs to act now - get rid of this silly buffoon!
- David, soton, 13/08/2009 11:08
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Alan Duncan has always been a loose cannon and the fact that David Cameron saw fit to appoint him to his front bench brings his ability to accuratly assess his people into question . Get rid of this man David and prove that you are a decisive leader.
- Terry Stewart, Whitley Bay Northumberland, 13/08/2009 11:02
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Anyone who has ever worked within a big organisation knows that there are no surprises here. Alan Duncan is simply voicing what EVERY SINGLE MP thinks. This in no way justifies his position, but if you are going to sack Duncan you might as well sack the lot of them.
Power corrupts. End of.
- Jason, London, 13/08/2009 11:00
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Why the surprise? These people have no scruples, and to refer them as "honourable" is risible.
They cannot avoid an election indefinitely. When the time comes, the opportunity will be there for us to get rid of the parasites.
It will, however, require voters - particularly those in "safe" seats - to break lifelong habits.
Will the people of Britain seize the opportunity to clean out the stables?
- John C, Leatherhead, UK, 13/08/2009 11:00
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I don't think we will hear anything from Dave on this one. He is back from holiday but will not be appearing on TV or Radio till this dies down. He seems to avoid condemning members of his clique while being happy to dump on older Tories.
- F Frinton, Ealing England, 13/08/2009 10:59
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Wealthy MP, Alan Duncan has made significant expenses claims to supplement his horticultural needs. Perhaps it is time for him to make better use of those expenses claims and take some extended gardening leave. Now.
- Ricky, Hackney, London, 13/08/2009 10:53
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As a person who pays Tax to support this " Old Boys Club " there can be no doubt as to the contempt that they hold us in !
- Ataxslave, london, 13/08/2009 10:53
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I'm surprised he wasn't axed after his painfully embarrassing appearance on Have I Got News For You. I don't think there's anything worse than a politican trying to be funny when they're not.
- Isabel, Woking, 13/08/2009 10:53
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Lets get real. This was a flippant remark and anyone who is unable to see that has an axe to grind regardless.
- Jon, Devon, 13/08/2009 10:50
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Pity these poor MPs. All parties have their share of multi millionairs.Alan Duncan is only voicing what many (dis)honourable members are probably thinking. No one likes to be found out, especially when snouts are removed from the trough.
- John, lincoln england., 13/08/2009 10:39
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Hypocrite Duncan would not know what a ration book looks like.
I had a ration book throughout World War 2 and I can tell parasite Duncan something - I had more to eat between 1940-45 than I am able to buy today with my State Pension.
Get rid of all 648 MP's. Chinless, spineless muppets to the core.
- Reuben Camara, Republic of Morecambe, UK, 13/08/2009 10:39
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If Dave is that principled about the expenses scheme why did he not raise questions about it long before it was blown by a newspaper. He knew what the scheme entailed....Maybe it is because the most abused part of the scheme, second homes allowances, was introduced by the Conservatives in the mid-1980s. For Cameron to get all prim and proper about it now stinks of hypocrisy.
- Richard, Cheltenham, 13/08/2009 10:31
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Who? Never heard of her.
- Alison Clark, Ilford, Essex, 13/08/2009 10:20
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This just shows that members of the Tory party are rarely in touch with the existence and every day lives of the working classes. Mr Duncans idea of rations is being down to his last case of oysters.For the Tories to try a damage limitation exercise is typical, whats said has been said and meant, too late to cover it up.The government we have might have rubbish leadership and wouldnt be out of place in the Tory party,but at least most decisions are made to try to benefit the everyday people and not pamper to the 'money people' who think of nothing else.
- Richard Bertman, Doncaster, England, 13/08/2009 10:15
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Just get rid of this out of touch idiot and all the other out of touch idiots over the road. Won't leave many of them left, hoorah!
- Sue, Orpington, Kent, 13/08/2009 10:13
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Alan Duncan thinks he's a celebrity. He has lost site of what it is to be an MP. Time to cut him loose, Dave.
- Alex C, London, 13/08/2009 10:11
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