Reader views (35)

 Add your view

Edward White, further more to my previous post I think you are clearly deluded in that the engagement between the chugger and the general public is not equal at all. There are some very volnerable members of the public who are confronted by very confident charity sales people who hard sell to them. I have been watching their tactics and they sometimes target single women and other easy targets with their hard sell. How is this equal? In the name of charity this is clearly not acceptable and while this may offer short term gains to the disreputable charities involved, it would cause long term damage to their reputation and I will make sure this will happen.

With you comment about irritating the minority, there has been no real surveys done at present to prove this other than The Times survey which says that 80% of the general public thinks that f2f should be banned.

Also, its not the government intention to see that f2f is made easier, but to close the loophole with regards to unregulated charity collections such as f2f and to protect the general public from bad practice. Thankfully, this will happen in 2010

- Mike Smith, norwich

Edward White, I never said that the new regulations being intruduced in 2010 should stop f2f, I said it would stop the dubious behaviour. Please read my post again.

Having sometime rude and offensive comments thrown at you as you walk past is not bullying and harassment? Which planet are you on Edward. This has happened three time to me today and I have complained to my local council about it which should be everyone first point of contact. I will be stepping up my campaign against chugging soon including contacting all councils and targetting the charities who use f2f. If you don't think I can harm f2f just watch this space.

By the way you seem to be under some denial with regards to what local authorities can or can't do to stop harassment from chuggers. Read this SMA from Brentwood Borough Council. This seems farely restrictive to me and a good job too.

http://www.brentwood.gov.uk/pdf/26062008160130u.pdf

- Mike Smith, norwich

Mike Smith: See the legislative definition of harassment in my earlier post. Further bullying refers to the act of "intimidating a weaker person to make them do something". Since the relationship between fundraisers and other high street users is of equals, it's a bit of an unreasonable stretch to use the term 'bullying'. You are also incorrect to assert that councils will recieve powers to stop f2f fundraising in 2010. The only grounds on which they may refuse an application are that activity took place on the day before, or will take place on the day after. This means that fundraising will start occuring in greater frequency in some places than it currently does. The Government's intention is clearly to make it EASIER for f2f fundraising to occur within a framework of self-regulation and the intention behind the Act is facilitative rather than prohibitive since f2f, however irritating to a minority, is in the public benefit - it efficiently raises funds to assist the sick, the young and the elderly. As the sector regulator, we look forward to the implementation CA06 as it will provide legislative clarity and a legal framework within which f2f might operate whilst ensuring that those who might seek to attempt to prohibit the activity are not able to do so without exceptional reasons.

- Edward White: Policy Officer , Public Fundraising Regulatory Association, Southwark, Southwark

So.... another overhyped debate about the pro's and con's of Chugging. Have people so litte a life that they can't debate something more interesting?

1. Chuggers sign up 500,000 people a year to charities that they may not have even heard of before an engaging discussion
2. 99.9% of chuggers are caring, passionate hard working individuals who ALSO volunteer outside of their own hours.
3. In the 3 years I worked as a chugger I personally raised £135,000 in gifts every year.
4. That is a total of 1356 people who give to charity because of a conversation i've had with them.
5. In that time I had 2 complaints from members of the public to the charity I work for.
6. considering I'd have to ask 100 people for 1 to stop that is approximately 1 complaint in every 67,800 people I asked to stop. NOT really a massive issue then.

Simply put Chugging works. Charities make about a 1 to 5 return on their investment although it is not instant(find me an investment that is legal and instant i'll invest my life savings now). If charities did not get a return, if people cancelled their donations because they were pushed by the fundraisers then charities would not use chuggers. Are you really willing to take that money out of the budget of the charities we talk about. Imaging the BRC with 30% less budget that is peoples lives we are talking about.

- Liam, London

I think the whole argument of defending chugging as its beneficial to charities is completely missing the point. The majority of people that complain about chugging have not go an issue with charities themselves, its all about the manipulative tactics used. I personally won't give to any charity because of this. People have the right not to be bullied or harrassed in the streets for money even if its for charitable perposes. Also it is a fundamental right that people should be allowed to go about their day to day business without being bullied for money and local councils should and I think are realising this.

Chugging is intrusive and many people don't like it. Chuggers also harrass and guilt trip people as they walk by. They've also been known to lie about their cause.

This form of fundraising is currently unregulated by local councils because they are exploiting a loophole in the law which controls only cash collections and not direct debits.

You'll be relieved to know that this loophole is about to be closed in 2010 and councils will have the power to stop their dubious practices. I would recommend complaining to your local council licensing debt by sending an email in order the them to tighten up these controls on Chugging in 2010. If you don't complain, they won't solve this issue.

- Mike Smith, norwich

Carl,

Of course it's rewarding work you got paid for it, whereas I donate a minimum of 300 hours per annum to charity work and pay for the privilege.

My comment was simple enough. If on average you signed up one person a day there must have been countless people who ignored you or said no. On that basis how do come to the conclusion that "for every person who says they are put off from giving because of chuggers, i suspect there are plenty more who are not." If anything it seems to indicate the reverse.

- Mark, South-East London

Mark, South-East London

I am unsurprised that you feel the need to "pour scorn" on my comment. The tone you have adopted tells me enough. I'm truly thankful that we didn't meet during my time as a fundraiser... My personal performance in the job is not the issue here. It was a hard job, but very often a rewarding one. I would like to think that the vast majority of the people i signed up are still donating and that would mean that they have been doing so for about 4 years. And this is exactly the reason charity's use chuggers... I understand it's not for everyone but your reasoning against is flawed and as such You speak for yourself.

- Carl, London

Some factual corrections:

The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 states that “the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other”. The crux of the issue comes down to whether it is reasonable for a person to attempt to engage members of the public for the purposes of soliciting donations to a charity. Since this activity IS provided for in law, Charities Act ’06, it would suggest that the activity is reasonable.

‘Obstruction’ of the Highway is a legal offence unlikely to relate to someone engaged in traditional F2F (without a stand) since the obstruction must permanently or temporarily remove the whole or part of the highway from public use. As human beings are mobile, there is little chance for those engaged in traditional forms of F2F to fulfil the above.

The overwhelming majority of f2f fundraisers are on a fixed hourly wage and not commission. They are worth on average £68,000 per year to the charities they represent relative to the average of £17,290 (hardly big bucks) that it costs to employ them to do the job.

If there are genuine breaches in the Code of Conduct, you can and should report them to the PFRA, FRSB or the charities themselves in which case market forces will take effect.

- Edward White: Policy & Outreach Officer, Public Fundraising Regulatory Association, Southwark

Edward White,

Based on your figures around 1% of the UK pop. gives to charity through this method per annum, so given that they have been around for over a decade about 5m in the UK regularly give through charities in this manner. Is this actually the case?

When Chuggers first hit the street a decade or so ago it wasn't a problem they were few and far between and I myself signed up for a few of the lesser know charities, which I have in recent years cancelled and now pay the money directly to the charity of which I am a trustee.

However these days’ things have changed dramatically. Most people on their journey home are likely to be challenged by not one but two Chuggers representing different charities and also on the weekends challenged in their local high street or outside the supermarket and quite honestly it is bordering on harassment, particularly as we now get them knocking on your door.

The charity I am involved with has been helping young children in the East Dulwich area for other 100 years but our fund raising has been inhibited by a constant flow of chuggers all working in the surrounding area for the big charities. Our work is no less important. there's!

Despite your stats. there is, these days, an overwhelming dislike of chuggers because of the saturation level and the antics of some of the individuals involved, many of which seem never to have been given any guidance on the laws of obstruction. If your giving figures are the same in 3 or 4 years time then

- Mark, South-East London

I work for a small charity and we cannot afford face to face fundraisers but - like the 'big boys' in the sector whose tabards you see on the chuggers - we are still competing for funds in difficult times. Fundraising budget? it's often our spare time and own personal finances. Reading these comments I am concerned that this method of fundrasing is giving a negative image of the charity sector.

Furthermore I must say that my personal experience of some face to face fundraisers is different from the regulations described by the PFRA in these posts. On three separate occasions in different locations I have been pursued down the street in a fairly abusive manner by street fundraisers when I have politely refused. I'm not blanketly against all chugging if done responsibly and appropriately but they need much tighter regulation. In my expereince Big Issue sellers don't appear to behave in such a manner... perhaps the chuggers could learn a lesson from them.

- Runnerbean, London

Carl,

That's just over one sign up per working day. On the basis that you must attempt to engage a couple of hundred people a day that would seem to pour scorn on your comment that "For every person who says they are put off from giving because of chuggers, i suspect there are plenty more who are not."

Chuggers are the breathing equivalent of junk mail!

- Mark, South-East London

Mark, of South East London

This argument about chuggers being actively despised doesn't seem sustainable in light of the fact that over 500,000 people sign up and continue to give each and every year using this method. Whilst it's possible that certain individuals - those so compelled to contribute to this thread and threads like it(even in the entirety of the blogosphere this is fractional compared to the number of people signing up) may feel irritated at being approached and asked to give money; to state that chuggers are universally despised is simply not based upon anything factual! The vast numbers of people - your fellows - signing up undermine this assertion which is precisely why charities view face-to-face as being so effective. The majority of those that do not sign up simply have greater things to worry about than being approached in the street and they accept that it is not an inalienable right to avoid contact when in a public place. What remains then is to ensure that F2F is conducted well and to a standard of best practice. When best practice is not met, you absolutely should complain to us, the FRSB or the charities. But the method itself is sound and, in such hard times as these, directly contributes to local communities through the provision of child protection, mental health services and shelter. To state that the activity should be banned is a) not legally possible and b) not in the interests of society more broadly.

- Edward White: Policy & Outreach Officer, Public Fundraising Regulatory Association, Southwark, London

About time to I just hope Camden does the same, 5 in same 100yard stetch tried to stop me the other day and then another 4 were all around the Station at Faringdon, this is too much.

Can also something be done about the free newspaper sellers they are geeting almost as bad!

- Bob, London UK

Is it not a fact that the charity you donate to don't actually make any money for over a year, because the cost of the chuggers is so high.
I make a mental note of every tabard I see, and that charity gets crossed off my list forever.
I'm now down to supporting the RNLI, in my view one of the worthiest and best run charities in the UK.

- Sarahn, London, UK

I am absolutely sick of these 'chuggers'. Walking down Tottenham Court Road is like running the gauntlet. I get harassed approximately four times a day.

- Denise, London

It would be great if you could all quit with the "they" or "these people" comments. I was a chugger for 2 years and i was not paid by commission, i never guilt tripped anyone, i learned a lot about the causes i represented and i signed up over 600 people to make regular donations. As far as i'm aware, chuggers are paid for out of a charity's fundraising budget... Just like everything else. If you don't like it then fine, but please don't try and justify that by rubbishing a fundraising medium that works well. For every person who says they are put off from giving because of chuggers, i suspect there are plenty more who are not.

- Carl, London

I Jones, London UK

I am the trustee of a small charity based in East Dulwich and I give up at least 300 hours per anuum plus put my hand into my pocket to the tune of around £ 1,000 per year. We find it hard to raise money to cover our annual running cost, let alone buy the new mini-bus we desperately need, especially as regularly have Chuggers representing the big charities operate a few hundred yards from our base. Chuggers are paid for what they do, they are no doing for altruistic raesons.



Ian Macquillin, Southwark, London

You misunderstand. Chuggers are resented and now actively turn off many people from giving to charities as well as effectively strangle smaller charities.


Yesterday in Peckham I saw another episode of spitting of chewing gum by a Chugger.

- Mark, South-East London

This is all rather tame stuff. I wonder how many people remember the 'cult' fundraisers who were everywhere in the Seventies? Some of them were very aggressive.

- Mark, Venice, Italy

Never mind limiting their hours - ban them completely.
These idiots are irritating and sometimes agressive.

It should be illegal to ask for someones credit card
details (which is all they want) in the street.

Get rid of them!

- Lb, Bromley

I used to work for a telephone cnarity fundraising orgainisation and you are told not to accept the first no. Many of these fundraisers work in the same way. The other day I said "no" to someone in Ealing Broadway, who then told me it would only take a few minutes. In the end I shouted no and he finally got the message. The same stretch of road had two other hyperactive chuggers. They are getting to be a pain and I think the charities should think twice about being represented by people who sometimes stand in your way to get attention.

- Alice Jones, London, England

I Jones, London UK

The reason they are working so hard is they are paid on a commission basis, they are not doing this out of the kindness of their own hearts, unlike the millions of people who offer their time for free to charity.

- David, London

remember these people are not employed by the charities, they are rented out by agencies on commission. They have no interest in the charity and you see the same people every week wearing a different T shirt. They don't go for men in suits but try for the more vulnerable types who are too nice to say no. They are not interested in donations as such, it is the direct debit steady drip that they are after and your address as a fully fledged sucker.

- Jack Spratt, Richmond, Surrey

I Jones I agree that charities need money and now that the big corporate businesses are reducing the amount they pay to charity donating more is essential but using chuggers is not the answer - apart from the amount of money they cost, they are, as shown by the other comments, starting to cause the charities to receive less money not more by their tactics (potential donors crossing the road, etc). I, like many others, pay directly to the charities by direct debit.

- Andy, london

There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding here. There has been an agreement in place for the past year between the Public Fundraising Regulatory Association and Westminster City Council to specify the numbers of fundraisers, the locations they may attend and the maximum number of days per week they may go there.

This was established with councillor Astaire’s predecessor and has been enforced by PFRA to the apparent satisfaction of Westminster’s licensing officer and the elected representative. There were no issues or problems reported to us until councillor Astaire took over the portfolio a couple of months ago.

The PFRA and Westminster City Council have been in dialogue about formalising our existing relationship. However, as no details have yet been mutually agreed and no implementation date has been set, Cllr Astaire is premature in announcing that the new agreement is about to be brought into force and what conditions it will place on charities fundraising in Westminster.

If anyone wants more information about street fundraising, they can contact me.

Ian MacQuillin
Communications and engagement manager
Public Fundraising Regulatory Association

- Ian Macquillin, Southwark, London

Just ask them to lend you bus fare,they buzz off vair quick sir.

- Jimfred, London UK

I agree with everyone here.
I give to charity, but I will NOT give to a chugger who "chases" me down the street.
And yes, why so many Lite/Londonpaper distributors?? What's their purpose? If I want a paper I take it, end of story, I don't need someone shoving it in my face!

- Rollo, London

Yippee! Please, please, please let this mean fewer chuggers in Holborn. I've getting chugged four times a day at the moment!

- Liz, London

As the economic low continues to be reported in a typically sensationalist manner by all forms of media, many of us seem to have forgotten how amazingly fortunate we are. The majority of these "chuggers" are working hard to fight extreme manners of poverty, child abuse, and other incredibly worthy causes. Less than 10% of the population of this country gives to any charity on a regular basis. The charities will be finding it extremely hard to get any funding, and we should all wake up and realise that! Dip your hands in your pockets! It's easy!

- I Jones, London UK

The streets are crawling with the people handing out free newspapers, free magazines, as well as people trying to get you to sign up for paintball or a gym memberships. I'd rather someone was out there raising money for charities rather than that lot.

- Harry, London

There's are always loads around Charing Cross in the evenings, I tend to point behind them and say "look it's Jimi Hendrix" and make a swift getaway whilst they look confusedly over their shoulder.

- Bob, Cheam

Excellent, please can you start with those who work from outside Holborn tube down to Remnant Street? Totally agree with Andy about the Lite/Londonpaper employees - if I want one I'll take one, and do they really need so many of them in such a small space?

- Sarah, Enfield

A firm "No" does the trick for me. I find free newspaper dispensers far more numerous and irritating.

- Bj, London

About time. While waiting for a train at Kings Cross last week, I was approached by 4 of these "chuggers" in a 10 minute period.

- Jock, London

I gather charities make a lot of money with the use of chuggers, however, I'm afraid they have the reverse impact on me - I will not give to charities who I see use chuggers. Walking around Angel you have to run the gauntlet every day fighting off chuggers and Lite/London paper employees who all deliberate walk in front of you.

- Andy, London

Good job to they are becoming a pain in the backside. I usually get my bus from outside Oasis at the top end of Regent Street and rarely a day goes by when they are not there. Some pester people waiting for a bus and some of them definitely border on the obstruction laws although the one that gets my vote as the most obnoxious chugger was the young girl who rather than walk a few yards to a bin spate her chewing gum into the road!

- Mark, South-East London

Add your comment