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Londoners could be hailing ‘le taxi’
David Williams25 Aug 2009
Black cabs could soon have a French rival on the streets of the capital following a landmark legal ruling.
The Peugeot E7 people carrier is barred from use as a taxi in London and Liverpool because its turning circle fails to meet guidelines.
But Allied Vehicles, which sells the car in Britain, has won a court battle against the restrictions and is calling on London transport bosses to allow it to introduce the vehicles.
The Peugeot, unlike the Hackney Carriage, cannot turn between pavements 28 feet apart, a condition cars must meet to prove they can manoeuvre in narrow streets. Its failure to do so meant authorities including London and Liverpool refused to license it.
Allied Vehicles challenged Liverpool city council's decision, claiming it contradicted EU free-trade laws by restricting the Peugeot's use and sale. They also claimed it discriminated against the disabled because the seven-seater has access ramps for wheelchair users.
The High Court ordered the council to reconsider licensing the Peugeot for taxi use. Allied Vehicles says the judgment should also cover London and wants the capital's taxi market opened to all vehicles. Most local authorities allow the Peugeot.
A spokesman for the company said: "The High Court judgment now looks set to sweep away the turning circle requirement for good."
Transport for London said it could not make a decision until it had received the High Court's final judgment in writing, which is expected next week. Liverpool council could also appeal against the ruling.
A TfL spokesman said: "Due to the nature of London's narrow streets, the small turning circle of London's black cabs are a vital requirement which help drivers, passengers and other road users by preventing unnecessary hold-ups on the roads and helps drivers deliver the world-class service for which they are famed.
"TfL remains committed to ensuring wheelchair users have comprehensive, equal access to all transport modes and continue to work with the taxi and private hire trade to achieve this aim. We shall have our lawyers look at the ruling before making our decision."
Allied Vehicles has been fighting for a slice of the London cab market since 2001 and in 2005 called on TfL to review its taxi Conditions of Fitness.
However, TfL decided the 28ft rule was still needed and refused to back down. It said cab drivers carried out 50million U-turns and 90million other tight turns made possible by the turning circle each year. Other vehicles attempting these could cause delays or accidents by shunting backwards and forwards.
Gerry Facenna, chairman of Allied Vehicles, was optimistic of a change in the rules in London. "All we are seeking is freedom of choice and the right to compete on a level playing field. It seems ridiculous that we've had to go all the way to the High Court to fight our way through red tape but hopefully the end is now in sight," he said.
London has one of the world's largest taxi fleets, with more than 1,000 cab sales each year, worth an estimated £35million.
Bob Oddy, general secretary of the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association, said: "All London's 25,000 taxi drivers are self-employed. If a wider choice of taxi becomes available, it will be up to each individual driver to decide which vehicle to operate."
Reader views (33)
tx taxis are to heavey and out of date we need to move forward we need taxis that go further on the gallon and dont pollute the world e7 for me the turning circle is a load of crap as you cant do you turns anyway so we dont need it tfl state blacks are dirty so lets bring on the e7 in then and forget the turning circle so tfl are you green or your bottle gone lets see
- Smudger, surrey, 07/09/2009 23:47
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Alan, that's the point mate! You hate the E7, you don't buy it. I'd love one but big brother says I'm not allowed to buy it. Why should city hall - or is it LTI - decide who I have to spend my money with? It's about choice and we should all have it. OH, and funny enough it seems that in all the other places that have a choice most of the guys are going for the E7. No wonder LTI are so desparate to stop London going the same way!
- Ed, Stepney, 26/08/2009 11:12
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This is more to do with common sense than being nationalistic. It's became obvious that the design of the black cabs has become redundant and is in serious need of a refresh. The TX series simply falls short of the E7 (and possibly others) in terms of comfort, safety, accessibility, luggage space and economy. It's a shame that londoners seem to be stuck in the past and miss out on the modern taxis that most of the UK already enjoys.
- John, Stirling, 26/08/2009 10:54
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Heard someone on the radio banging on about 'saving a British icon'. Stuff your icon!! I forked out £34 grand for an 'icon' with a dodgy radiator and leaky boot that sucks diesel like it's going out of fashion. Times move on and so should cabs.
- Tim, Basildon, 26/08/2009 09:32
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The E7 is the ugliest vehicle I have ever seen and made by a company with a name for unreliability. Why on earth would I. as a London taxi driver, want to buy one?
- Alan, london, UK, 26/08/2009 08:20
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One thing that is overlooked is that many cab hirers welcome the individual shape/style of the London Cab,that makes it identifiable as a stand alone vehicle, a very important safety issue to vulnerable people ie lone travellers or tourists,also that turning circle is a very useful tool to have, most critics have never driven a cab to be able to give a sound opinion, just a guess. What London needs is the TaxiCab manufacturer to come into the 21st century and offer a far better vehicle than what is available now at a far more competetive price, they are now produced in China so maybe some keen importing will help, but Transport For London and London Taxis should get their heads together in a new radical user/ driver friendly design, please dont forget all you knowledgable critics, the politiciance have a lot to say about the London Taxi requirements, and the manufactures and drivers hands are tied by laymen.
- Frederick, London, 25/08/2009 18:29
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All these butter boys they should have driven an FX3 or Beadmore back in the good old days when the wind came at you from allsides no heaters and you sat over the battery. Then they can call themselves hard doneby.
I got my bill(licence) back in 1959 when the Knowledge was done the hard way
- Bob, Shirley surrey, 25/08/2009 18:12
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LTI cabs have never met the DDA rules for carrying a full sized wheelchair.
This good news for all cabby's nationwide who at the moment are forced by there daft councils to only buy LTI cabs, they will be able to save at least 10K on the purchase price, get at least 20 MPG more and have loads more room, they will also be able to buy the Mercedes Vito without the rear steer and save a few thousand on that as well.
I don't know why every taxi has to be wheelchair friendly though, in the areas that councils insist on them 95% of taxi drivers have never carried a wheelchair.
it would be better to set up a nationwide wheelchair company, and leave the taxi owners to decide if they want a cab or saloon
- Graham, Galashiels Scotland, 25/08/2009 17:46
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As a cabbie of 6 years my issue's different. There's more and more minicab firms with better and better vehicles. They won't be going away so the black cab side has to up our game or we'll just keep losing more business to smarter cars with decent boots. We need a choice of proper modern cars if we're going to stay in business.
- Mushtaq, East Ham, London, 25/08/2009 16:52
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That's the whole point Jack! The new cabs, as I understand it, fit a wheelchair no bother but still cost less than ye olde black cab. So the punter wins (disabled or not) and so does the cabbie. Common London - this is a no brainer!
- Ed, Stepney, 25/08/2009 16:45
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I am disabled and find it very difficult to get in and out of a traditional cab. I also am usually forced to travel side on without being secured. It doesn't matter where the vehicle comes from, be it a Peugeot from France or a Skoda from Czeck Republic, why should the less fortunate of us be forced to travel less safely than others?
Bring on these new cabs I say!
- James Edwards, London, 25/08/2009 16:15
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Not quite sure how all these disabled users can pay for a black cab. Many millions have been spent putting ramps onto buses but they do not seem to be reliable. The best idea is surely Dial a Ride but a disabled person I know tries to book in advance but is told its too early then waits until nearer the day only to be told they are booked up. What I am saying is why should our entire taxi and bus fleet be disabled friendly with huge capital and maintenance costs when the relatively few people could be catered for by a vastly upgraded dial a ride which is door to door.
- Jack Spratt, Richmond, Surrey, 25/08/2009 15:55
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Putting seats in a van, doesn't make it a taxi.- it is a van with seats.
- Ian, Reading, England, 25/08/2009 15:28
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Thank god some sence at last these new modern vehicles at last in London , The london transport people have pretected the makers and garages selling the old 35 year old design cabs for to many years riping off us taxi drivers ,we have to sit at an angle to the pedals they cost fortunes to buy and repair lots of faults i am never away from the deaker for warranty work and the cabs that went on fire these drivers have never been recompences .
and most stret you cannot do u turns on anyway .
cant wait do be able to buy a modern cab at a realistick price.
john [london]
- John London, london, 25/08/2009 15:15
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The one thing I admire about the Black Cab Drivers is they DO & WILL bring London to a halt if they feel threatened.
The BCD's are about as close to the French, as anyone in this country will ever get to holding their own interests first, they stand united together, and good luck to them.
The London Black Cab is a national icon and long shall it reign!
- Mrs, London UK, 25/08/2009 15:04
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Waht's with the 'Le Taxi' thing? Last I heard, production of the 'london icon' was getting moved to China. It's not about buy British, it's about the best tool for the job.
- Steve Jones, Plumstead, 25/08/2009 13:16
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Bottom line, LTI have had it their own way far too long. The black cab is way past it's sell by date and their so-called dealers treat you like you know what. The new Merc taxi's a good thing but pricy so more competition is exactly what's needed. We'll soon see then who wants to fork out £30k for an 'British icon' with a dodgy radiator and no blinkin boot space!
- Jason H, peckham, 25/08/2009 13:10
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Squiz - I am not a cabbie but know quite a few. I did have an old black cab in my late teens. It was fitted with a good music system and a bar - say no more!
- Michael, London, 25/08/2009 13:09
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Does anyone stop to think about the disabled? I've been in a wheelchair for five years and getting about is a real chore. Most buses and train stations are far from practical so taxis would be a big help, if only I could get my power-chair into them! At the moment black cabs are just too tight so I can't wait for these new taxis to hit London.
- Maxine, Chelsea, 25/08/2009 13:03
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As a wheelchair user who has travelled as a passenger in both types of taxi, I would recommend that the E7 be licensed in London - and everywhere else for that matter. In my experience the Peugeot offers a far better standard of accessibility and safety.
- Claire, Slough, England, 25/08/2009 13:02
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Having driven a London cab for 22 years I for one can tell you I'm fed up sitting all day in a cramped space with squint footpedals that seem designed to twist your spine! Anything else has to be better!
- John T, Dartford, 25/08/2009 12:54
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High time too. I was in one of these modern cabs when I visited Edinburgh last month and they're much nicer than the old-fashioned ones we're stuck with here.
- Joe J, Putney, 25/08/2009 12:50
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We've had these vehicles in Glasgow and Edinburgh for years. They are spacious and comfortable. They can carry six passengers and have proper space for a wheelchair and a carer. The taxi drivers love them because they are cheaper to buy and run than an LTI and of course they don't burst into flames
- Paul, Glasgow, 25/08/2009 12:24
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This is simply about the French making rubbish cars.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 25/08/2009 12:16
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Maria,
The irony is that you have a European name otherwise you would be called Mary!
- Mark, South-East London, 25/08/2009 12:15
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The only way a Peugeot will sell is to offer it on contract hire to use some of the strange tax advantages that are available. Surely no one in their right mind would actually buy one.
- Jack Spratt, Richmond, Surrey, 25/08/2009 12:03
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The Black Cab is the Black Cab! Leave it alone. Why this enthusiasm to delete our National Identity? Why must everything be so European?
- Maria, London, 25/08/2009 11:13
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Excellent, if it lives up to the usual Peugeot engineering standards I expect to see multitudes of them broken down across London.
- Bob, Cheam, 25/08/2009 10:00
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I've never understood why Peugeots and Citreons have such huge turning circles. It makes getting out of some multi-story car parks a right pain - especially in a little 306 which you'd think would have a small turning circle!
- Isabel, Woking, 25/08/2009 09:48
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Its a Peugeot. I doubt that Cabbies would be interested in buying them anyway unless 'The Knowledge' also tests them on where all the Peugeot dealerships are in order to take it when it breaks down, again!
- George, London, 25/08/2009 09:35
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that'll be Michael the cabbie then ?
- Squiz, Islington, 25/08/2009 09:29
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They want to compete on a level playing field all right, but they've demanded to have the goalposts at one end made wider . . .
- Roz, France, 25/08/2009 09:29
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This is a truly awful vehicle. Much is made of the wheel chair access but there are many more elderly and infirm people with mobility problems who find these nearly impossible to get into. They are also uncomfortable - whereas the TX black cabs have improved vastly in recent years these have a ride compatible with their 'bread van' background. Lets be nationalistic for once - you do not see black cabs in Paris!
- Michael, London, 25/08/2009 09:12
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