• Reaction: Gianfranco Zola shocked by Upton Park violence
• Aftermath: Hooliganism head will hurt World Cup bid

Reader views (104)

 Add your view

.........maybe a ban on low budget, moronic films like "Green Street" and "Green Sreet 2" would be a start. Those knuckle dragging pratts think they are fly on the wall documentaries!

- Stokie, Stoke on Trent

Millwall 'Fans'....West Ham 'Fans'....hmmmm contradiction.. if they were 'Fans' of their teams...why were they not 'watching and supporting' their teams.

Its both faults of both teams (and of West Ham not getting the proper support of policing, stewards etc).

They are unfortunately the bain of british life... They didn't come to 'support' their teams...they came for a fight... they are neanderthals, and think they are 'something' but really are moronic nothings with half a brain... brainless = mindless...
mindless thugs!!

sad to say they think its great to do what they did...but they are idiots and fools... how butch is it to hurt or even kill someone who is someones son, or a father to some poor child (even poorer if their oponent is also a soccer holigan...their children will turn out to be chavs I guess!!)

They make their country ashamed!! and why most countries hate the English

- Angel, London

One notable absence, suprising given his poosition in football has been Sir Trevor Brooking! Why hasn't he come out and condemmed the West Ham fans for running on the pitch and potentially losig the world cup bid. The absence of any comment by the former hammer is being well noted throughout football circles.

- Bill, Bermondsey, London

Two things.

No. 1

What's all this about racist chants from the Millwall supporters. Absolute nonsense made up by WHU to deflect the blame from their own failures. Liverpool tried this before, when their supporters were at fault at the New Den and the FA almost fell for it until the match officials said they heard no such chants and it transpired that the complaint was made by a Liverpool supporter who hadn't been to the game and had trawled around some Millwall website (like the press have) and found a few racist comments.

No. 2

Pete from Dartford

Whilst I agree your point about ticket-less games, from the early eighties onwards these were diminishing. Still many fans, who are not hell bent on starting trouble, still travel in the slim chance they might get in and or just to soak up the atmosphere.

Was that the EWC game that the second league had to be played behind closed doors at the Boleyn beacuse you lot misbehaved (tickets or no tickets)?

What happened the other week when Napoli came along for a friendly? I here there were more stabbings than there were at the Millwall game!

- Mark, South-East London

Football "hooligans" are in fact severely repressed homosexuals. This is well understood amongst professional psychoytherapists amd psychologists. This type of violent display of homoeroticism is usually seen in those people that are the most repressed. I think a more caring and understanding attitude would be the most constructive approach.

- Howard Beale, London

east london showing its still untouchable..

- Matthew, southend on sea

Too much testosterone. Chemically castrate them, this will nullify violence. As an added bonus we'll prevent the potential of a new generation of reprobates of repeating appalling behaviour in 20 odd years not to mention stem an ever growing population that the world cannot sustain.

- Jack Day, London

What is Mark from S.E.London saying?
In the 70s and 80s, I with a few mates travelled the length of the country supporting West Ham, even into the old 2nd division. We even went to the European Cup Winners matches. We never missed a game, so we do know about being a supporter. Fortunately not many matches were all ticket. When they were we queued up to get them, I still think it would have been pointless going to an all ticket match without tickets as it's obvious there would have been trouble.

- Pete, Dartford

Im a Millwall Supporter and was at the game last night. From my experience it was really poorly policed. I was on a tube train packed with both Millwall & West Ham which wasnt allowed to empty at Upton Park. It ended up at East Ham. When we got out there was no police anywhwere to be seen. Not really knowing who was who, and where we were heading, I put my head down and made my way to the ground! At Priory road it went absolutly crazy! Still no police presence, I oouldnt even be sure who was who, it looked like people just swinging punches at anyone! My point is, why no Police at East Ham? Must have been atleast a 20 minute walk completley unescorted with fights and skirmashes from West Ham lads all the way to the ground! They really ballsed up in my opinion!

- Dan Clarke, Dartford

Judging by some of the pictures published the hunt for those responsible could start at local pie shops in the area

- Mike, Herts

These hoooligans at WestHam....are Weight Watchers gonna stand idly by and do nothing!!!

- Simon, Rotherhithe, London

We've seen this kind of thing here in the USA at times. These are not "sports fans", they're just criminals. They have no respect for anyone else, imagine bringing your kids to a game and having something like this happen. I say zero tolerance for this kind of behavior. Drop the hammer on these thugs.

- J Poyhonen, freeport, ny. usa

Now are we about to see Hardest Crew as a new Olympic event in Stratford 2012?

- Frank, Southend on sea UK

Millwall have cleaned up their act, now make West Ham do the same.

- John, East Kent


John, you're joking, right? That's got to be a joke.

Tearing the seats out at Hull in the last round. More of the same in the game last night. Monkey chants at Carlton Cole. Singing vile chants about Calum's & Jack's traumatic episodes of the last couple of days.....

They have a way to go I'd say!!!

- A Little Less Sensationalism Please.., NYC

I've heard this comment a few times today 'if they want to fight send them to Afghanistan', what a cheek to our troops to liken brawling to what they are going through

- Dougie, Greenock,Scotland

Its a white social problem - whilst the government has poured millions into accomodating immigrants it has totally ignored the plight of the working class white mail - fact.

- Mc, London

Good God...working class men fighting..dont tell the Politicians or they will start another WAR to send them to..and then use words like ' brave and pride of our your men' to describe their deeds and lose of life.

Football violence has NEVER gone away only the media reporting of it has. Pity so much attention is not drawn to any high Street at closing time for real violence ...OR those Politicians who pick a fight then send our lads overseas to sort it out.

- Clif, London

i was at the match yesterday and from what i saw it was the west ham fans who were attacking the millwall fans who had turned up with no tickets.i am a 57yr old west ham fan and have been supporting and watching the irons since the 60s,i thought i would never see this sort of thuggery again after the dark days of the 70s and 80s.the problem with this west ham v millwall fixture is that not only is this a local derby match but both sets of hooligans have allways been the most feared hooligan gangs in the country so to them this fixture determines who are the top dogs of football thugs.i know us proper football fans will suffer buti think this fixture in future should be played behind closed doors on a neutral ground

- Albert, bethnal green, london england

Why kick West Ham out of the tournament and get the ground closed? Everyone knows this was a Cup Final for Millwall and their fans turned up accordingly, without tickets. This was just a few mindless thugs (both sides) who don't usually go to the games, causing trouble. The police don't get paid for these games by the clubs (they should do), so whether there were enough police or not isn't the fault of West Ham.
And as for West Ham being the darlings of the media, they are far from this, hence all the rubbish about Sheff Utd and Tevez. The only reason Millwall fans are moaning on this site is because they lost to a team of youngsters and reserves. I'm sure West Ham will welcome Millwall back to the Boyleyn some day but there's more likelihood of Millwall playing Dartford in the Conference!

- Lee, Enfield, England

Time travel anyone - growing social discontent, football hooliganism, unemployment, rubbish fashion and synthetic pop - I do believe we are back in the 80's for real.

Can we just cut out the middle man - build a coliseum and bring back gladiators - I am sure sky sports will sponsor.

- Jc, se1

HELLO LONDON,
If these yobs want to fight put them on the frontline in Afghanistan, no if's no but's,
...... end of comment?.

- John L., Scarborough N.YKS. England. U.K.

The only way you can hope to have some control is to make clubs who's fans have a history of violence when they meet to play these games behind closed doors. Fair to the clubs? No. Fair to normal people, Yes!

- Macdangler, Wimbledon SW19

If these animals want to fight then let them. Set up an area two or three hours before the match for them all to gather and kick seven bells out of each other. No intervention from police or medical staff, just let them pay the consequences for their actions.
It'll then leave the way clear for the real fans to have a decent time at the match.

- Nick, South London

What is everyone getting so worked up about. The English are a violent militaristic nation. For hundreds of years they have exported their violence around the globe in the name of Empire. At home binge drinking and mob violence has always been present. It's in the genes live with it.

- Mick, London, England

This was a riot waiting to happen after violence by West Ham fans inside the New Den on their last visit there, and the police who made a huge mistake by cutting Millwall's ticket allocation to 1500. West Ham are solely responsible for not controlling their fans in their ground, no Millwall fans ran onto the pitch. West Ham fans ambushed Millwall fans as they left the tube station. How are Millwall FC responsible for that? This whole episode is the responsibility of West Ham, their fans and the police. This is not about sharing the blame, as in the past Millwall FC have been blamed for the violence of Liverpool and West Ham fans at the New Den. This can't work both ways. Millwall are responsible at the New Den and West Ham for Upton Park. West Ham must be severely punished for bringing the game into disrepute. Millwall have cleaned up their act, now make West Ham do the same.

- John, East Kent

Judging by the images of the pitch invaders, I would say that pies have got a lot to answer for.

- Carl, London

Much better to see these blokes haveing a good old fashioned street fight over the football than shooting each other over 'respect' and money/drugs,rather have tribalism than gangsterism anyday.

- Stephen, London

Romford's comments are spot on, The attitude that rugby fans have toward's football is one of extreme bile and lets be honest pure jealousy. Football is our national game and with that massive popularity comes the possibity of fringe elements of society attaching themself to game to indulge in their violent and anti-social desire's. I deplore the scenes froma Upton Park last night , football is a beautiful, engrossing sport and having it to set to an ugly back-drop as witnessed last night is thankfully a rarity.

- Axel, new cross

I was stirring large pot of curry at the time and missed all this so called trouble. My brother who was returning home from Bengal community centre said it was no different to any other Saturday night on Green Street.

- Dilshad, London, E15

My Grandfather told me that in the 1930's fights between football teams was the norm each and every Sunday.
Also when closing time at the pubs came in the East End of London, dock workers wearing hob nailed boots would emerge and fight in the street, and knock the stuffing out of each other, and often constables who tried to intervene, sometimes the just as tough Women would be waiting to get their hands on some of the left over money and would lay into the men, who either gave in or biffed the women to the cheers of the fighting men...oh! what lovely days they must have been..the guys having a good male life...just before being made to go and fight another middle class engendered war, and if they came back to the UK went back to the only people who really cared for them, their Football Club.
Cricket is middle class, it's the Archer's, Radio4 and book at bedtime.
If you are middle class and don't understand the loyalty that a man has to his Football Club, a loyalty that goes back to his Great Grandfather who may have worked with his strong hands, or battled for his country...don't worry, you're not surposed to understand..it just is.
Also a large number of those policeMEN who are there to control it all, wish they were there on the side of a club...and not having to control it at all.
The ring leaders must be identified and banned, because that's the price they must be prepared to pay for the cause.
But leave Football alone, my Dad was born in Romford so his club was .

- Stephen Fortescue-Durrand, kensington london

Any person who thinks this has anything to do with football is living in nirvana. Football is the justification and the victim terrorised by low life's who have noFING in our society. All this media attention is doing is making these pond life's into heroes to be worshipped by apprentice thugs.

This is how it all started in the 70s first the excuse followed quickly by the fruit'n'nNuts seeking peer acceptance.

The truth is some men love to fight, from diverse background of employment and social groups both rich and poor, these are genetic mutations set to make our life hell

- Gary, Brentwood

How this game was not abandoned amazes me, well its pretty obvious really as if the game was played at a non premier league ground it would have been stopped, but this will just be pushed under the carpet as the premier leagues image cannot be tarnished. How can the players safety be assured when they have mindless thugs running up to them? I feel for Jack Collison who has lost his Dad to have to deal with these people running towards him. The policing was completely inadequate as I discovered when arriving 15 minutes late to the game, not one policeman in site yet still a lot of fans baying for eachothers blood, yet there are plenty around London today for which will more than likely be a peaceful protest, almost gives the impression that it was a set up and the police couldnt care less.

- Db, London

“leave them alone. They are taking their aggression out in a healthy way.”- Mick, Leeds UK... Mick do you notice how you are the only person here that condones this thuggish behaviour? That is because you are an idiot.

- Nj, London

West Ham and Millwall hate each other. As someone else said, it goes back generations. The best thing to do, is to make sure that whenever the 2 clubs have to play each other, it's always behind closed doors, at least for the next 2 decades.

It's no use punishing the clubs or make them play behind closed doors with teams they don't fight with. Both clubs tend to be well behaved unless they are playing each other and then it's all out war.

- Chris Barnett, London

In Scotland they hold matches between Rangers and Celtic with 12.30 kick offs so that the pubs are still shut on Sundays. Also on a Sunday in Scotland off sales dont open till 12.30. I suspect alcohol played a major factor.Goodness knows if this will happen during the Olympics. Rugby and cricket dont seem affected. Have you ever seen this at tennis at Wimbledon.Yet events like that have alcohol available.No doubt another government investigation will be promised.

- Jim, London

Some decent comments from some people here, bust some absolute dross too. You can't blame the clubs, the people causing the trouble just use the club, being a common interest, as a shroud to what is otherwise by all accounts nothing more than a gang of thugs, in the same way that some extremists will hide behind religion in an attempt to justify their crimes.

I'd only suggest that action was taken against West Ham, as the home side, if they'd failed to control the situation properly. In this instance, at least from what I've heard, both the club and the stewards did more than they could be reasonably expected to.

As a Portsmouth fan, I remember being somewhat wary of trouble in the 2008 FA Cup Final against Cardiff, both teams having had notable "firms" and a fierce rivalry in previous decades. As it was, I saw no trouble whatsoever and really thought the days of the prevalence of these savages was in the past. How wrong I was.

I just hope those responsible are brought to task and that any damage or distress caused to the innocent is minor and transient.

- Kieran, Upminster, England

The sooner Soccer is abandoned as a 'sport' the better.
More like…
The sooner SOCCER is banned as word for ‘football’ the better.
Tut! Tut! re: Richard, Huntingdon

- Jade, London,England

Louts, such as these , have sullied Englands Football reputation for years. The game and the fan majority are deserving of neither.

- Brian, Manchester NH USA

These animal scum should all be given a massive flogging. The authorities are disgustingly lenient in this country. When such trouble occurs it should be treated with a far tougher response with police being allowed to fire tear gas and rubber bullets at these animals.

- Vivek, London

Irrespective of who was to blame, it is, as always the local people who live near the ground, and the local businesses, who suffer most. On match days it is simply not safe to get on a tube, go shopping, live a normal life. The Upton Park Ground should have been closed years ago, and the club moved to a new site with proper transport links, car parking and far away from residential areas.

Those of us who live nearby end up being tarred with the same brush as the minority of mindless idiots who cause the trouble. The club does not pay the full rate for the policing, and Newham residents are left without an adequate police force on match days. Even if the matches were trouble free, the drain on local resources cannot be justified.

- Bob Smith, Stratford, London

Isn't it rather ironic reading these posts of disgusted and appalled people, not to mention Government ministers, who it seems are less than disgusted about the release of a man responsible for the murder of 270 people (assuming the conviction was correct of course)over Scotland.

So perhaps some perspective is needed here. Does violence still happen outside football stadiums ? Yes it does and last night was no exception. Was there violence inside the a stadium ? Aside from riot police using batons against West Ham supporters getting onto the pitch, no there wasn't much.

Did the media, most notably the BBC run stories last night ('Second man stabbed' 'Pregnant woman hit by bottle')even though they had been advised by police that they were untrue ?

Because of a group of muppets who chose to invade the pitch, West Ham should and will be fined by the FA for failing to control their fans, whom themselves as per the information on their ticket stubs, should be fined and barred)

But these calls for West Ham to be thrown out of the competition have no basis whatsoever other than in the minds of a handful of drama queens. The violence as it happened was a public order offence, took place outside the stadium and therefore is outside the jurisdiction of the FA

- John, Twickenham

The English in Rob Grady's message clearly demonstrates the intelligence level of the fans involved.

- Sue, London

Pete, Dartford said "I'm a West Ham supporter and have been for 40 years" and then says "However I cannot for the life of me understand why you would go to a match without a ticket unless you were looking for trouble?"

You may have been a football supporter for 40 years, but you understand nothing about supporters.

- Mark, South-East London

Could we not set aside fighting areas near football stadia for these chromasomally challenged semi-evolved apes? Since they obviously love to fight and the so-called 'firms' go to great lengths to organise such violence, I say let them. Allow a good punch up, weapons optional, in a designated area and Sky could televise it for our entertainment. A latter day Roman gladiators if you will. The winners would be kept on (and locked up) to fight another day, and the losers would die. With enough of these organised tribal fights, the human gene pool would benefit from having their clearly faulty DNA removed.

- Edmund Gidleigh-Park, London, England

Violence away from grounds has, sadly, never gone away. It's just been masked. However, the so called responses on this site alone show how poor the situation has become. Over reaction and general bile from people not looking at the vast majority who were left as innocent bystanders when a few morons who wanted to relive the glory days decided to kick off.
People were injured last night by mindless thugs - not football fans, thugs. The police were out in far less force than they were for the West Ham V Spurs game on Sunday, despite the fact that anyone with a view to the game, history or indeed anything else, knew that this was going to happen.
Stop aiming punishments at the average football fan and stop being so petty minded as to state it's all down to the 'typical' fan. It's not.
Rugby and cricket do not have a history of such violence, nor do they attract the same sized following. 24,000 sat in the stands and were not involved in any of this stupidity. A few hundred both within and without the ground caused mayhem.
This game, despite it's clarion call for hooligans to revisit their youth, was allowed to proceed on an evening, with copious quantities of alcohol available and darkness in which to hide. Knowing the nature of what was going to occur, would rescheduling to early on a Sunday on the part of the FA/FL not assisted in avoiding the events?

- Concerned, Romford, Romford, England

1. Why can't grown men simply grow up, it's just a game for goodness sake, not the end of life as we know it! 2. You hardly ever get trouble at rugby matches which is a far tougher game. 3. Just stop allowing spectators into any matches for a whole season. 4. All the yobs who think they're hard, stick a uniform on them, fly them to Basra and use them as mine detectors. End of problem.

- Sue, Orpington, Kent

Danny, NW5.

No one throws glass bottles at festivals for one. For two, you try and tell the old Blur and Oasis rivals to organise a fight to settle a score and they'll just laugh because it's pathetic.

And three - there's nothing middle class about music festivals. They cost as much as three football matches and come around once a year. Don't even bother classifying music festivals and football matches into class boundaries, because it's a stupid mindless argument when you compare basic prices, especially when they pale into insignificance if you consider the price of a season ticket.

Get a brain.

- Ruth, West Midlands, Birmingham

Stand back and let them fight. Then there will be fewer the idiots left.

- Peter Land, London, UK

There's always a bunch of idiots who crawl out of the woodwork after some football crowd violence to say, "this never happens in rugby/cricket or any other sport" "the sooner the sport is banned the better" blah blah blah! But as usual what they neglect to realise is that the troublemakers in football are the exact same minority of people who make trouble in society, the overwhelming majority of football fans have never been involved in any hooliganism.

If football wasn't around this group of thugs would just align themselves with the next sport and cause a nuisance there. It is thanks to football's existence that these other sports and their fans can continue in their safe, bourgeois, middle-class utopia.

Football violence had been on the downturn for years but sometimes a match comes along, like this one between two great rivals, that stirs up a the hornet's nest and sees every lowlife crawling out of the woodwork. In a time of poor economy, rising crime and other problems there was always likely to be a resurgence in the hooligan element in football as some of those most affected by the problems look to release their frustrations.

But I guess most of those fans of other sports won't have realised these people exist as they sit in their ivory towers.

- Dan, London

The fights outside the ground were just organised gangs of criminals fighting one another (organising fighting in public is a criminal offence hence them being criminals). It wasn't the 'fans' of either sides taking part - it was largely people who didn't have tickets.

Inside the ground there was very little violence - lots of pushing and shouting but I didn't see any reports of any injuries in the ground itself. And the people on the pitch were largely teenagers who were sitting in areas of the ground where there was a general sale of tickets i.e. not season ticket holders. 10,000+ season ticket holders didn't even attend this match.

The pathetic abuse of 'West Ham' as an entity or as a bunch of fans as hooligans on this forum and elsewhere ignores the fact there were 24,000+ people and about 100 at most on the pitch - I think Sky Sports News counted about 60 on the pitch. These little boys, who were skipping around the pitch, waving and hugging (look at the footage, it all looked a bit camp) should all get banned. The Club and Police should also learn from their complete failure in policing and stewarding.

But, in the end, this is a one-off. I've been going to West Ham for 30 years and have never seen scenes like this. There is unlikely to be another West Ham Vs Millwall game for another decade. It's not a pattern, just a disgusting one-off.

- Iron In Bermondsey, London

'like animals?' They are animals and shold be treated as such. Some of the comments about 'police brutality' are laughble. Those fans should face a lifetime ban and do community service.

- Dhan Raj, Basildon

rather than emotions look at facts - It was announced that Millwall were to be allocated all of the bottom tier and that the top tier of the stand would be empty. Millwall's ticket allocation was then reduced to 1,500. Possibly not the brightest of ideas, given that everyone knew that there would be loads of space (so ticketless fans were always going to turn up).

It would seem that the quality and quantity of stewarding and policing inside was inadequate - quite how so many managed to get on the pitch several times without any being stopped or apprehended is a question for WHU and the authorities.

The authorities should accept that there should be severe penalties handed down to WHU for failing to act to control their fans.

Trouble on the transport network, in the streets before and during the game might have beene expected. Judgement should be made on police activity and intelligence. The odd thing is the trouble during the game - I wonder why the police didn't round up the Millwall ticketless and put them back on the underground to South London under guard?

Tribalism continues throughout the world (look at Tennis in Australia whenever Serb plays Croat) and spills into every chav ridden high street on a Saturday night.

Solution ? ..... replay down The Den.

- Brian, London

It is hard enough being a young man in broken Britain nowadays where there are virtually no jobs - how can they be expected to behave? I can't understand why so many people are upset by a few men knocking each other around a bit and I wish I could have been there myself. Let them get on with it and leave them alone. They are taking their aggression out in a healthy way.

- Mick, Leeds UK

Some people have complained that the police were underprepared and should've been ready for this type of violence. I'm sure they would've been well prepared had most of their crowd control officers not been otherwise engaged in preparation for another moronic "climate camp"!

Those people planning their "peaceful" protest are just as stupid and selfish as these hooligans, because their protest diverts police resources away from where it is really needed!

- Mike, London

i was at the game was haveing drink in the queens at the station fan were bit noise police turned up were in flat hat haveing laught then started to put on riot hats they then turned into diffrent people. seen one sargent hitting people on the ground ,why did the police turn into hooligains aswell

- Rob Grady, london

"You can hardly compare these bunch of fat brainless chavs to cricket and rugby supporters

- Dc, London"

Are all fights on rugby pitches done with fake blood then?

- Paul R, London

Football violence is not new its been going on for many years.People will always fight people.However take alook at the amount of films portraying these so called brave supporters as heroes.The press dont help.
Watch the news,read papers and live in England no wonder they let off steam. I feel sorry for the police always get the raw end of the deal and no support from the justice system.I remember many years ago front page boy with a dart stuck in his fore head,caused out rage.Last week two fans shot one killed here in Brasil,so only a matter of time. SORRY TO SAY.

- Allan Clarke, Brasil

I don't see what all the fuss is about!!!!!!!!!!

- Jonny, London

This doesn't surprise me at all. I went to West Ham last season and was appalled at the overt racism and aggressive attitude of the fans.

Obviously you cannot tar all fans with the same brush but any club that tolerates parents encouraging their 8 year old children to shout racist abuse at players and rival fans has to be has real questions to answer.

- Will, London, Uk

I'm a West Ham supporter and have been for 40 years and I certainly don't condone this violence inside or outside the ground. It's not either club's fault, unless the clubs have been negligent in not identifying trouble amkes in the apst and banning them. It is mainly the fault of our society and these yobs on both sides. All the while the police cannot police and the courts do not punish, this sort of violence will go on. It's no real differnce to what goes on in a lot of town centres on a Satrurday night. It's just that this time they're hanging onto football.
However I cannot for the life of me understand why you would go to a match without a ticket unless you were looking for trouble?
Both clubs now MUST identify these people and ban them for life. In the meantime the police MUST prosecute them and the courts punish them properly, not give them a stupid caution.
If the clubs do not act effectively, then talk about throwing them out of competitions.
As for getting some perspective - well! The yobs may have been willing participants, but the local residents whose evening was turned upside down certainly weren't.

- Pete, Dartford

I agree whole heartedly with Paul H. In the early 90’s I used to attend raves weekly, there was never any trouble- quite the opposite in fact and very little disturbance to the local communities, other than the odd illegally parked car. The prospect of hundreds of people peacefully enjoying themselves was obviously too much for the government of the day to tolerate and after coming under pressure from the alcohol industry (who were naturally concerned about people using a cheaper, safer alternative to booze to enjoy themselves) they passed a whole new piece of legislation to deal with the “problem”. How is it then that football matches, where trouble (mostly alcohol fuelled I am sure) is frequent and disturbance to local people is high (most grounds are in densely populated areas) are not only tolerated but encouraged? I suspect the answer has a lot to do with big business and big money and secondly that the pointless tribalism as encouraged in football is useful to the authorities. It helps keep people apart- divide and rule. Anything that promotes peace, respect and togetherness (as raves did) are an obvious threat!

- Nj, London

About 40 years ago a very popular Chief Constable in Scotland discovered that two rival gangs had arranged to do battle on the local race course.
When asked why he didn't try to stop it he said that there was no way in which he would risk any of his men being injured because of a bunch of nutters.
They simply waited till the gangs had knocked all hell out of each other and picked up the ringleaders as they limped off.
Sadly, that would not be too clever in the streets of London.

- Scotty, Cambridge UK

Here here! Totally agree with Paul R. This was definitely organised and does not reflect the behaviour of true West Ham fans week in and week out.

- Slim, UK

How many police were needed at the Oval last week? And how many Aussie and English fans were arrested? The sooner Soccer is abandoned as a 'sport' the better.

- Richard Meredith, huntingdon

As soon as this fixture was announced, it was oblivious what was going to happen!
In part I blame the police, as from the 80s onwards they have built up enough information to know that the hooligans associated to fans base of these clubs will have a fight! Senior officers should handled the co-ordination outside stadium better, it was not effective at all!...they were well aware of what was going to happen.

We are all aware of the hooligan culture, it will always be there we can't deny it...But last night was police tactics that went wrong!

- Jade, London,England

No worse than what happens at Notting Hill every year.And it wasn't racist either,just tribal.

- Steve, London

The FA haven't got the guts to do anything about it....thats why they turn around and say the clubs and police should ban them. The FA need to force everyones hand and stamp down hard on West Ham as it was their fans on the pitch....(criminal offence if i remember rightly)!

However the FA are weak and will most probably see the images of last night for their new respect campain and we will never learn!!!!

- Jh, London

I enjoy looking at the picture of the fat guy running away from the steward. I like the fact that he uses one of the little plastic toggles to keep his money safe. Are these sensible money holders common place amongst London's hooligans I wonder.

- Andy, N4

This has been brewing for a while. There is footage on Youtube of West Ham fans "taking" New Cross (the area around Millwall's ground) on a match day - seems to be back in the 1980s. My guess is that the Millwall fans were determined to get some footage of them "taking" Green Street. West Ham's hooligan core "the ICF" (read: fat chavs in their 40s who should know better but are stuck in a 80s "glory-days" timewarp) were equally determined to stop them. Rumours of the resultant stabbing must have angered the crowd inside Upton Park and, with Millwall going one-nil up, the lid blew. Sure blame West Ham (again) but Millwall were organised and out for trouble - as the police and West Ham "crew" knew. It is very difficult for the authorities to respond to such determined and organised violence (from Millwall) and, given the history, impossible for those West Ham fans with small brains, low ambitions and high volumes of lager in their bellies to ignore.

- Fortunes, Hackney

Paul r, London Says

"Trouble inside the ground was contained apart from pitch invasions which are hardly the end of the world, its people celebrating. They happened at nearly all of the play-off matches last season and i've seen it happen at Rugby and Cricket matches too over the years."

You can hardly compare these bunch of fat brainless chavs to cricket and rugby supporters

- Dc, London

I went to the game last night...yes some fans went onto the pitch and celebrated,thats what happens when you play your biggest rivals..are minutes from going out of competition then equalise.Pitch invasions were the norm at play off games last season.So in that context what is different ?
The atmosphere inside the ground was electric and i for one like many others loved it.
Im not condoning the trouble outside the ground for one moment,which was bad really bad but things have to be got into perspective here.

- Alan, South London

This has been going on for years and won't go away.The media are lapping it up as there's no news at the moment.

- Steve, London

London's finest citizens out for a night on the town.
And they gave the Olympics to the East End?

- Tangomike, Kensington, London

Who cares? It's mindless football supporters, hardly a great loss to the world if they all get wiped off the face of the planet is it?

- Bob, Cheam

Hark at the outraged! Get some perspective, all of those injured were willing participants in the scrap. Nobody 'innocent' was assaulted or stabbed, unlike tens of people each day who are victims of random violence in London. Virtually all of those who can be identified (and the Police will devote massive resources to find them) will be banned or prosecuted. It is illegal to run onto the pitch and ilegal to throw objects at football grounds.

Now go to most music festivals and you'll see hundreds of people throwing bottles, but that's all ok because they are jolly middle-class types.

- Danny, NW5

No! They don't "fight like animals". They fight like the human dross that they are.

- Judith C, London, England

These yobs must be caught and locked up for a long time.

West Ham and Millwall must be penalised. The useless FA has got to show some mettle.

- Lester May, London

What a load of absolutely pathetic and rediculous responses.

Police know that the trouble outside of the ground was organised by particular thugs who simply use the names of the clubs as a banner for tribal mentality. They could just as easily call themseleves Montague and Capulet. Trouble inside the ground was contained apart from pitch invasions which are hardly the end of the world, its people celebrating. They happened at nearly all of the play-off matches last season and i've seen it happen at Rugby and Cricket matches too over the years.

This was an organised ruck outside the ground and given that fact, i'd still rather take my chances knowing i could avoid trouble than walking in Hackney Central at night or being in Nottingham town centre at closing time.
No there shouldn't be any violence in any of these places or events but if you want to blame anyone, blame the media for its perpetual glorifying of it in 4+ films, print and online coverage and several books about West Ham v Millwall. Maybe they should be the ones who pay the police and hospital bills?

- Paul R, London

So why did 800 millwall fans travel to east london with no tickets?

- Jackie, England

The trouble that took place was outside of the ground. All the tv footage was of fat chavs running at stewards and then stopping with their hands up in the air. The few who made it on to the pitch just waved at their equally thick mates. Hardly what you would call crowd violence.

Put uniforms on them and send them to Basra and see how hard they are.

- Paul, London

Throw us out the cup? you gotta be kiddin! we won the world cup, you know.

- Nancy Dyer, Homerton, UK

I reckon you throw the club out of the tournament - yes it will hurt, but those 'fans' will soon realise they are the one to blame - surely that would stop them??
Nothing else seems to anyway - banning them from turning up - they get through anyway.

- Marie, islington

What is the problem with West Ham? Wouldn't it be ironic if those same scum fans who claim West Ham "won the world cup" in 1966 are then responsible for England losing their bid to host it in 2018.

Give West Ham a three year ban from cup competition, not that they're ever going to win one anyway. And their fans? Go back to your caves.

- Ian, Hampshire, England

I remember when some of your English soccer fans came to watch a 'friendly' in Lansdowne Road in 1995. Half way through they began giving Nazi salutes and throwing stadium furniture down on top of children (brave men). They weren't so brave once the Gardai had smashed their skulls in (to the applause of the entire country) and were in fact in tears in court. Not animals, just pathetic.

- Dr. J. Melvin, Dublin

Lock them into a stadium somewhere and throw away the key. If in the morning any of them are still alive nick them. What a waste of ambulance and police resources.

- Frank, Home Counties, England.

Why is it, when something like this happens, the cry is always to either blame the police or blame the clubs?
Why SHOULD we have to organise our lives around scum like this? The more you attempt to contain them, the more they look upon it as a challenge.
I suggest that they all be invited to a patch of waste ground and left to sort it out amongst themselves - at the end the police could go in and arrest the survivors.
The really frightening thimg is that, from looking at the pictures, the majority of them are "grown ups". So we don't have the possibility of them maturing and seeing the error of their ways - rather more likely they will act as role models for their kids.
A solution? There isn't one. Sadly these idiots are just being English.

- Barry Chapman, Welwyn England

Throw them out of the cup and do a draw for an unlucky looser to go through in their place. Also make them play two premiership games behind closed doors and hit them with a massive fine. Hit them where it hurts. Last night's actions were sickening. But as usual nothing will be done about it by the FA.

- Andy, Southgate

Had that number of people been involved in that much and that level of violence (even before you include the stabbing) had occurred at a music festival or any other large gathering (where the worst-case scenario is probably a dozen arrests for smoking weed, and handful of thieves caught pickpocketing), you can bet the authorities would revoke the organisers' licence and prevent that event taking place again, even just once a year.
And yet an appalling amount and degree of violent behaviour - often well-organised rather than spontaneous - is allowed to take place - indeed is expected to take place so some degree - week in, week out at and around football grounds all over the country, in town centres, at rail stations and on trains used by 'fans' to travel to and from matches...
It's pointless to fine the clubs (it's not their fault, and the amounts of the fies are risible); forcing clubs to play behind closed doors is sweeping the problem under the carpet ('fans' will still gather outside the grounds).
The only possible option is too radical, too unthinkable for the authorities to even contemplate: no more football. As crazy and as open to ridicule as that sounds, it really is the only solution.
Even then, it will only shift the problem (the perpetrators of the violent bahaviour - which is everyone understands is NOT the genuine football fans) somewhere else (the currently relatively problem-free rugby matches instead?) rather than stamping it out.

- Paul H, London, UK

Nothing new - ask about the trouble on Sunday after Hammers v Spurs in Plaistow and Mile End. It wasn't reported anywhere I've seen but the area was brought to a standstill and more than 100 cops involved at Mile End alone - seemed about every spare copper they could find rushed there. This scum hasn't gone away.

- Cc, London

Don't call these animals fans. They are not fans of football, they are just fat old twerps like the one featured in the photos, who looks like he should be tucked up home in bed with a cup of cocoa.

If teams can pay a million or more for a player, then let them pay a million or more in the shape of a fine until they clean their cat up.

- Peter Thurgood, London, UK

The football season has started and the cretinous few have crawled out from under their rocks to beat each other up. They should pen them all up together and let them get on with it and hopefully wipe each other out, allowing Darwinism to prevail.

- Steve, Herefrod

"Witnesses described it as a war zone" Our brave soldiers are being killed and severely wounded on behalf of the likes of these scumbags, they ruin the game for the real fans. Send them out to fight the Taliban and then see if they like a good fight.

- June Arnold, Chessington England

"Seventies-style football hooliganism". I was at Upton Park in 1967 when several people were taken to hospital as a result of fighting fans before, during and after a match with Manchester United. Football violence was commonplace by the late 1960s and has never gone away.

No doubt some plonker will claim that it was started by the police.

- Bj, London

No doubt many of these "men" are fathers. What wonderful role models the must be.

- Jon, London, UK

Why didn't the police remove their ID numbers, kettle them all in and give them a dose of their own medicine? Oh, my mistake - that's just for climate camp protestors. 21st Century UK - the mind boggles...

- Ian, Islington, UK

If the hooligans take over, football in this country is doomed. Supporters will not venture out to respective grounds if they don't feel safe anymore. Hooliganism must be stamped out for the sake of the future of football throughout the country

- Leslie May, Gateshead, England

If Millwall supporters were not involved at the end of the match, as has been widly reported, just who were West Ham fans fighting against ?

- Jock, London, England

oh i bet all these unwashed hippy types won't be complaining about police brutality here as it involves the 'lower classes'!

- Jh, London

Not surprising really, you just need to compare the average football supporter to the average cricket or rugby supporter to see where the problem lies.

Also the bahaviour of football players which these neanderthals idolise need to be seriously dealt with by the FA. The respect for referees campaign was a complete joke, just watch the highlights of last nights games for proof.

- David, London

The usual 'East End Geezers' that have watched too many movies and one too many Danny Dyer documentaries. If they enjoy violence so much and are so brave perhaps they should be sent to Afghanistan where REAL men fight.

- Hansel, London

Not really a great surprise this happened given the reputation of both sets of fans - I fear it will be the ordinary fans that will suffer as the police will be encouraged to be even more hostile and intimidating in the future as a result of last night.....a sad night

- Alan, London

Throw west ham out of the cup and fine them stupid amounts of money!

they obviously knew how big the game was and were useless and hopeless in controlling their fans! police in stadium were most prob min numbers becuse the club has to pay for them (quite rightly). these rich prem clubs are tight and most prob refusedto have more police in the ground....chuck whfc them out!!!

it made millwall fans look well behaved in the stadium...however they did have a ring of stewards and police around them!

- Jh, London

Strange, how the people who came on the pitch did so from 3 sides of the ground and yet almost without exception the media reported it as trouble inside the ground from both sets of supporters. When the Luton riot occurred THE HEADLINES READ "MILLWALL FANS RIOT", this time when it was clearly only the medias' beloved West Ham (look at how many reporters actually state their allegience to them) who were involved inside the ground - the media choses not to single out west ham but instead says that fans from both sides were involved. Clearly not one Millwall fan encroached on to the Pitch last night and I hope that this is remembered when the FA look into the matter. As for the problems outside the ground, maybe if Millwall had been given the alloaction they should have had instead of the vastly reduced numbers then maybe the so called West Ham fans would have thought twice about picking a fight. The Police and the Newham H&S advisory got this totally wrong, they were warned by the Millwall Officials before hand but chose to ignore what they were told, now they should be exposed nationally for their arrogance and ignorance.

- Bill Flack, Bermondsey, London

It was obvious there would be large scale aggravation with Millwall not being given enough tickets so leaving hundreds to travel over anyway and the obvius happening. Westham should get their ground shut and a big fine as it was their fans inside the ground who ran on the pitch like a bunch of bufoons.

- Jack Napier, London England

Add your comment