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CORRECTION & APOLOGIES RE PREVIOUS RESPONSE TO ANDREAS!!

I misread your post. The Stables no longer has casual stalls, only overpriced shop units built simply for revenue, with no concern for traders, nor for the destruction of a priceless & irreplaceable site of British heritage.

Whilst in comparison, Camden Lock retains its originality, charm & character with a proper & reasonably priced market.

I believe the weekend daily rate is £40-45, depending on location.

- Ex Trader, London, UK

There are no stalls anymore, only shops. You need to contact the Stables market office who'll be eager to give you details.

Strongly advise you visit the area where you're offered a unit, both on a weekday & a weekend, before handing over cash.

Talk to the current traders, they'll tell you the truth & explain why there are suddenly so many available units!

- Ex Trader, London, UK

can anyone please give me some information about current prices to rent a stall in camden lock market ?

thank you

- Andreas Kalan, st albans

TO ALL TRADERS @ STABLES/CANAL MARKET; Check your lease & you should have a 'Tenancy at Will'. You will have been told by the management that you have to give 2 -8 weeks notice otherwise you will forfeit your deposit. This is NOT TRUE! Please check your facts by googling 'Tenancy At Will' IMPORTANT FACT: "Most leases of business premises enable the tenant to acquire security of tenure. One of the requirements for the lease to to acquire security of tenure is that it should be for a fixed or periodic term. Thus one way in which this can be avoided is to create a Tenancy At Will. This is a form of tenancy which does not have any fixed length and neither is there any requirement for notice to be given by either party in order to bring it to an end. it is exactly what it says - it can be brought to an end by the will of the parties at any time and without notice." Please check with the National Market raders Federation if you have any queries re the above.

- Ex Trader, London, UK

we had a stall in the stables for 10 years and left in 2000
due to rent increases and new ( D ) management by this lot in there now
who were rude , manipulative and ran the market into the ground back then just like a mafia .
it looks like now it has finally come to the crunch, they have killed it !

- An Ex Trader, LOS ANGELES, USA

Camden markets were a wonderful spiritual expression of all that’s creative and unique, full of diversity and peace in arts,crafts,music and clothing indigenous of the whole concept of... The Market.....Today due to fat fingered business ignorance the markets are becoming clones of the same supplier...just in case the tourist was looking away as they passed the stall.. here it is again! So to all you developers please take note... no matter how you dress the truth up to escape your greed..Believe me Its not rocket science...
Let me help... as Wikipedia states. A market is any one of a variety of different systems, institutions, procedures, social relations and infrastructures whereby persons trade, and goods and services are exchanged..... If a trader is completely independent and unique to the markets then they should be given a reduced rent. The big traders that earn millions should be footing the bill...Simples! We should be celebrating and encouraging the small trader not suffocating them.... end of rant...Peace

- Paul, london

with regard to the comment about a all the traders leaving on mass is not quite true. some traders decided that it was not worth selling their houses to pay the rent or take their kids out of private school, or to throw away money that could be better spent! I will say this the majority of traders have a plan B in place, if and when they need it. as the saying goes "DON'T PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET!

- Mandy, london, UK

Re Jonny comment- "its been designed in the fashion of victorian London - the whole area looks 200 years old!"

Ummm-I havent seen any pics of Victorian London showing big glass fronted buildings & elevators!

- Kelly, London, UK

Hello Rich - there's a mass exodus from the Stables due to extortionate rent hikes as you of course know, and whether the units are constructed from cheap timber or teak is totally irrelevant.
You and your colleagues have told some traders that you are under strict instructions from BEBO to let units to ANYONE who can afford to pay the rents. Hence the influx of Asian traders.
Anyone doubting the truth of this should visit the market & talk to traders who have hung on since the recent rent increases.

- Soni, London, UK

Jonny wrote, "Camden is a terrific place steeped in tradition...",
"which to me it seems the owner is trying to uphold as he only allows independent businesses and young designers take stalls within the market."

Fact: indeed the market is/was a terrific place- but your second statement is patently (& visibly) untrue!!!!

Firstly, there are no 'stalls' nowadays they're all shops-££ per footage equals high street rents!

Secondly, in total contradiction to your comment, please look at the 'stalls', mostly operated by the Chinese-specially in what was the Canal market. You'll find few shops left selling anything individual & innovative anymore. New, young, independent designers cant afford the rents! You will mostly find same after same 'Made in China' sweatshop tat.

- I Love Camden, Enfield, UK

You complain it's made of cheap materials but if we'd used expenive materials, then you would have complained we'd spent too much! How can Stables win?

- Rich, London

In response to your comments Jonny, obviously you have a latex brain as well as name. Just to reiterate, traders at camden have had their rents increased by a minimum of 75% some have been hiked up by 500%. Traders who have been part of the market for years TOLD and not asked to move to other units promised a 3 month rent free period only to find out that the management are asking for rent after 6 weeks and at an increased figure to what was originally agreed!!! Making traders to sign a tenancy agrrement (very one sided management control) that is not worth the paper it is written on. The heavies can give notice to a trader at any time.
Get your info right regading spitalfields, it is only £80 at weekends and much cheaper in the week in accordance with foot flow.

- Mandy, london

Seems like the article is based on a specific section of the market... All the stalls in that area did not even exist before the new Stables Management took over and 'created' them. Enough Said LOL

I used to have a shop in the Lock building back in the 90s and left when the Soul really did drop out of Camden (ie when Starbucks openned and Café Brasillia closed etc). I've been coming back ever since, hoping Camden would return to its former glory. Last year it looked to me like the new development was working really well... So I'm back with 2 stalls in The Stables and 1 in the Canal Market

GoodTimes!!!

- Aileen, London, England

yeah, sure, why develope? why progress? when we can stay in the 19th century. we could have stayed as monkeys on the trees and never become humans and then everything would have been lovely, or better yet we should have never left the oceans to become monkeys.
get a grip on yourself people, where do you think we are? the old soviet union? you like progress as long as it got to do with YOUR business, but when someone else developes his, you all become communist/unionists. some traders however do not have this attitude and are actually embracing the opertunity as they should. i guess there will allways be people with a strong attraction to drama. the same people will have the time to send 70 complaint letters to the council, write 10 comments to an article, but not the time to improve their business and march it along forward, therefore are alarmed at a rent increase that has actually left the rent cheaper then any other market in london. why doesnt kate nash the champion of the poor and weak make a name for herself by singing is quite clear. she simply cant, therefore she hangs on others in a time of low publicity.
here kate, you got your picture in the evening standard, im sure you will sell another 3 cd's today. and Graham Coxon , the new Blur reunion needs some PR ,EH? drama queens.

- Caveman, London

To me it sounds like a load of bored, busy-body celebrities and journalists getting off on their own sense of self importance. Did you know that spitalfields market charges £80 per day? that makes the £175 for 7 days that camden is charging seem a bargain. Also modernisation? Has Kate Nash even seen the new development? its been designed in the fashion of victorian London - the whole area looks 200 years old! Camden is a terrific place steeped in tradition which to me it seems the owner is trying to uphold as he only allows independent businesses and young designers take stalls within the market.

- Jonny, London

Personally, I think it's great, I'm all for having 3 Pizza Expresses, 4 Starbucks', 2 Greggs', 2 Costa Coffees and 3 Subways per square metre across London.
Who needs charming individuality, when you've got homogenised, mass produced, faceless corporations, giving that 'Hey this is just like back home in [insert rich western country]' feeling we all know and love.
I actually think the horses are an excellent familiar of the Market, historically noble and strong, now a hideous, weak, over manufactured mess.

- Matt, London

I am totally shocked at the current state of the Stables and the lack of care by Camden Council to keep this great Victorian site in its original form as a part of London's social History. This is what is really going on amongst the horses!

1. during the refurbishment and building there has been a great lack of enforced health and safety rules and regulations. For example workmen without hard hats, hivi vests and steel capped boots. No netting over buildings with scaffolding and work being carried out overhead where public are walking.
2. Work has been persistantly carried out and food vendors in small open fronted kiosks are serving food to the public. Rats and mice are seen constantly due to building work.
3. No fire extinguishers, available water or sprinkler systems anywhere in the market.
4. No fire access as wooden sheds have blocked the entrance.
5.Moving traders into other units and hiking up the rents to turn their original units into restaurants.
6. Removing a complete victorian fascade and rebuilding modern units that have been shoddily made that leak regularly.
7. Using cheap materials for refurbishment
8. Turfing out traders who originally made the Stables a cool and innovative place to shop filled with antiques, vintage furnishings and clothes and other interesting wares.
Camden residents and traders did not ask to have their market transformed into southend-on-sea!
The council have been called on numerous ooccassions with NO RESPONSE TO DATE!

- Mandy, london, UK

"Given this it seems obvious to me that Bebo Kobo's goal is to create something other than a market, as without market traders there can be no market.- James, London"

The most astute comment so far!

- Blakes, London

I guess the consortium's expansion program didn't consider the possibility of a recession.
I'm not a businessman but logic says that increasing rents for existing traders at an economic low is a negative move.
ie The traders are leaving cos they can't afford the rent increase= more empty shops=less rent for the consortium.
Hmmmm - am I missing something?!

- Anony-Mouse, Essex

I agree, if you're going to spend thousands on horse statues, at least the tourists have their photos taken on them, otherwise they're an even bigger waste of money.

Out of interest, is Rich below part of the double act 'Rich and Tony in da market'?

If rent has to increase to pay for the development, surely the consortium couldn't afford it in the first place???

Young, creative talent should be nurtured not stamped out...

- Stall Holder, Camden

I have lived in Camden all my adult life and I find it all a bit strange that the people what own the market can do what they want. I have had put up with people working all night long, drunk's falling out in the early hours of the morning, Fights and so much more. what amazes me is that the council have let this go on without a word do these people not realise that it is a market not a tourists trap.

- Anon, Camden

its nothing to do with putting Big Chain shops in there, its just greed, how else do you think they have to pay for those Monstrosity Horses, they weren't going to pay for them, the whole place is bad taste bad organisation.
If they had any brains they wouldn't have spent so much money on those awful decorations. They are just like the Government they want the poor workers to pay for their billionaire lifestyles. The shops are really nice but how long can they stay there for with the extortionate rents they are being asked to pay, its a shame if we lose all those lovely shops. They lie and promise the world and destroy people in 2 weeks.

- Beyan, Essex

Albert - although I may be wrong about Camden Council selling the Stables, it was certainly CC who gave planning permission for this devastation of one of the most wonderful & unique examples of our English heritage. (Speaking of English Heritage, why have they not protected this historic & fascinating site?)

Furthermore, having seen the hideous changes to Camden Stables, a visitor could be forgiven believing him/herself to be in Chinatown rather than the wonderful bohemian market he/she no doubt expected to find.This is especially true of the Canal Market where stall upon stall sells the same bland Chinese imported goods.

Bebo Kobo & and his consortiums have so much to be ashamed of. But I'm sure the history of this country is of little importance compared to fattening their wallets. Not forgetting the number of people who have already lost their businesses, & more who certainly will if a 75% rent increase is true.

Given this it seems obvious to me that Bebo Kobo's goal is to create something other than a market, as without market traders there can be no market.

- James, London

I used to love the Stables market. It was edgy, had lots of different stalls, some rubbish, some gems. I liked the fact that it was run down and the buildings were crumbling. You actually found genuine bargains. They have totally ruined it. IT's the same thing time and time again. It's boring. Stall after stall of people selling zip bags, t shirts with the same designs on them, one after another. Brick lane has lost its charm and has got expensive as the old stalls are replaced by shops (although some are interesting, if stupidly expensive), the antiques part of Greenwich has been removed. London is a genuinely creative city. If they keep messing up parts of it like they have the Stables etc then that creativity will start to ebb away.

If you have to do places up, please do up the bits that are genuinely in need of development.

This is a lesson in how to totally screw up a market. Thanks Piers Codling for nothing. You turned a market into a mall. You will drive the genuinely different stall holders away.

But perhaps there is an upside to all this. Perhaps all those genuinely different stall holders that were forced from Camden, Greenwich and Brick Lane can find a new place. There must be some patch of ground somewhere in London with old buildings on it that would be fit for such a use. How about a market in an old tower block? Will deptford become the new Camden?

Whatever happens, lets keep developers like Richard Caring out of it.

- Lee, Sydenham

Talk about playing the fiddle while Rome burns.

- Joe, Swanley Kent

"I see where some of you are coming from, but I don't know what all the fuss is about. How else did you think the new development would be funded?

- Rich, London"

IS THIS RICH OFF OF STABLES MARKET?

- Anon, Camden

The new development looks tacky and appalling. I was part of the team that fought against the new development and at the council meeting where we lost the vote. Unfortunately, because an even bigger development had previously been agreed by short sighted councillors a few years earlier, the current council had no choice but to grant permission for the new building as the developers threatened to revert to even bigger plans.

It was obvious that the net result would be an increase in rent for traders despite assurances to the contrary. Unfortunately, it looks like our fears were well founded.

Maybe they should have saved the money they wasted on those hideous horse statues instead of increasing rent.

- Emma, London

Have you worked there yourself Rich? If so, don't you think everyone pays enough rent ? ? ? Anyhow were the local traders ever given a choice whether the new development should go through or not in the first place?

- Amber, London

@Rich - are you missing the label? If something aint broke, you don't fix it.

The Stables may be rough around the edges in areas, but that's what gives it character, charm, and alluring appeal. Who wants to shop in a sterile street full of chain stores? I don't.

- Jock, London

I see where some of you are coming from, but I don't know what all the fuss is about. How else did you think the new development would be funded?

- Rich, London

We are leaving after a lovely Summer in Camden, we have no choice to leave The Stables Market and go somewhere where there is some loyalty for traders. Good luck to everyone who is staying, you will certainly need it. Camden market just isn't Camden market anymore . . .

- Amber, London

Camden in one of the only alternative and just generally unique places left to shop. It already has chain stores on the other side of the tube station! Leave the markets alone.

The same has already happened to kensington market which years ago was a similar place and now it is completely gone.

- Sophie, Hove

Next: Jermyn Street.

- Roz, France

James, the site is owned privately and has been since at least 1970s, when the market was created. Camden council didn't sell it to them or 'give it away.' This is wrong.

- Albert Shanker, Camden, NW1

Trust me Bob - I'm a trader & tourists are few & far between nowadays. Most of those who do visit only want to photograph the metal horses & odd statues crammed into an already overcrowded space.
Think Disneyland on acid!

- Sherry, London

I am one of the Stables traders hit with a 75% rent increase.
Sadly I left my shop this week as it is impossible to pay such a massive increase.
ALL traders are suffering at the moment due to the recession & decrease in tourists.

I was head hunted a year ago from Greenwich market.
So many promises were made: I would be given a fantastically busy location, the market would build the shop to my own design, advertising would make Camden the No1 tourist attraction, traders make so much money there, etc, etc...

The facts are, there are fewer tourists than ever.
Business is so bad that rent increases are unrealistic & unmanageable so traders are now leaving in droves.
I've seen little or no advertising & heard many tourists say they didn't even know our part of the market existed!
Once you're signed up you're virtually forgotten about - unless you're late with a rent payment!
In the winter months business falls dramatically so that many traders have to subsidise the rent from other sources.

I would predict that by January there will be few traders left

- Anna (Ex Stables Trader), London

This has been going on for ages, the rent rises pushed by the market in the 90's forced many out of it. Cyberdog were forced to relocate to new premises and open a non alcoholic bar all because the market owners wanted it to go upmarket. You only have to look at what's become of the market at the Dingwalls end to see what's going to happen in the future. It'll end up all high street shops and no cutting edge, still, I guess the tourists will like it as they're the only ones that go there any more.

- Bob, Cheam

I'm appalled.

I've been going to the Stables Market for 12 years. It needs nothing done to it. Piers Codling goes on about "the right traders in the right place" - seems to me that they are already. These rent increases smack of a veiled attempt to force the small traders out, and eventually turn Stables Market into a clone zone, full of chains for the fashion magazine sheep to shop in.

- Jock, London

What's been done to the Stables market is a travesty & a disgrace. It's a chaotic & unattractive mess!

Visit the Stables & make up your own mind whether Camden Council should have given away (Oops - I mean sold!) this wonderful site to bulldozers & greedy developers!

- James, London

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