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Lunatics or BNP could win control of police, warns chief
Paul Waugh, Deputy Political Editor07.09.09
The row between Boris Johnson and the police reignited today after one of Britain's most senior officers said it was "entirely unacceptable" to claim the Met was under Tory control.
Sir Hugh Orde, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, attacked City Hall Conservatives for suggesting they now had their "hands on the tiller" of the London force.
Deputy mayor Kit Malthouse prompted a backlash last week when he came up with the phrase and suggested policing should be put under political control just as health and education were.
Sir Hugh said chief constables around the country were united in opposing the politicisation of their forces, declaring maintaining law and order was "far too important to be used as a political football".
He also widened his attack to slam Tory plans for elected police commissioners, warning that David Cameron's proposals could result in "lunatics" or the BNP in charge of policing.
Mr Malthouse infuriated the Met with his comments last week and his suggestion that City Hall now controlled the force was flatly denied by Scotland Yard Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson.
When asked on BBC1's Andrew Marr programme about Mr Malthouse's remarks, Sir Hugh replied: "I find it entirely unacceptable from a professional police officer's point of view, and I know I can speak with absolute clarity for all the 44 chiefs that lead policing in this country."
The Mayor's office refused to comment on the criticism. Sir Hugh, who was a contender for the top Met job before Sir Paul was appointed, said it was unfair of the Conservatives to suggest that officers were not currently accountable enough.
The former chief constable for Northern Ireland today stepped up his attacks, calling on the Conservative Party to explain exactly how it plans to alter the leadership of Britain's police forces should it win the next election.
He told the Independent: "No one has articulated to me or anyone else what the elected commissioner plan actually looks like.
"I know that Labour have stepped back from it, but the Conservatives are still committed to it. They need to talk to us about what exactly they are talking about doing,"
"Do they think that the public are so interested in policing that they would turn out and vote? And for whom? A politician? Or do they mind if they get a lunatic or a retired copper? All of these questions need to be answered."
Asked whether he feared a BNP or far-Right candidate could seize upon this, Sir Hugh replied: "Yes, that is a risk. If you have a system whereby anyone can stand to be elected as the local police commissioner, you could have any Tom, Dick or Harriet standing. If they can muster enough support against a backdrop of public apathy, then of course it is a risk."
Many supporters of the proposal have pointed out that it is similar to apparently successful models in the United States, but Sir Hugh rejected the suggestion that it could work here.
He added: "Perhaps people should go to America before saying things like that. I know a lot of sheriffs and they seem to spend a lot of their time canvassing and preparing for elections.
"Is that really what the public wants for British policing?"
Reader views (22)
Support your Local Police.
- Saheed, London
Why dont the Politician's take all Police Powers away , and on top of that , arm Police on the beat with Feathers to protect themselves and extract Police Dog's Teeth ! . If we are not careful these Greedy Politician's are going to ruin our Great Police Force . Imagine this country without a Police Force because it was completely demoralised , there would be nothing but Chaos and Anarchy , is this what we want ?
- Mr Frank, London
"He also widened his attack to slam Tory plans for elected police commissioners, warning that David Cameron's proposals could result in "lunatics" or the BNP in charge of policing."
...only if those "Lunatics or BNP" were also people who had gone through the police training and were suitably qualified for the job. This is a nothing warning from the man as it would be a simple matter for prerequisites for the job to be put in place as there are in other elected positions. The BNP jibe? While I have no time for that party, how does anyone know what political party others, including police officers, vote for in the privacy of the polling booth already?
The man is playing to fears, nothing more.
- Rogan, Irving
The police absolutely should NOT be under political control. At present they are accountable but not taskable. If burglaries go up then the current system can ask, "Why?". Politicians can't meddle with the workings. This is a VERY good thing. While some commentators might think that their political party would be nice and lovely and not bugger about with the police, what would happen if some insane right wing zealot got elected - legally - to office?
The police and the courts in this country are seperate from political government for a damn good reason. Leave them that way.
- Tom, London
The Police have been increasingly politicised over the last 12 years by our nefarious government.
Orde has only just left office as Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, probably the most politicised force in the UK, and I didn't hear him complaining too much about it then. It is completely laughable of him to suggest that there has not already been wholesale politicisation of the Police.
It is not long since Gormless Clown had senior Police officers writing to MPs telling them to vote for 90 days pre-charge detention, if that ain't political lobbying then I don't know what is.
Then there's the organisation that Orde has just taken command of, ACPO. Did you know that ACPO has an enormous amount of say in how we are policed, and in the tools and methods used? I'm sure you did. Dis you also know that ACPO is a private registered company, and is therefore NOT accountable to the British public and is exempt form the Freedom of Information Act? I'll wager that this is news to many of you!
- Rod Stonmeister, UK
Hansel
Did you dial :999 because you lost your key's or miss your last Bus !
- Leon, London
And exactly who put ACPO and Mr Orde (a retired police officer) in charge of policing in the UK?
- Matt, Telford, UK
What do you mean COULD take control, I thought they already had?
- Tellmesomethingnew, Twickenham
This idiot in the police represents EXACTLY what is NOT needed. We urgently need a return to a modern (and better) form of the old 1950's Watch Committee system whereby local 'worthies' as a committee supervised the police, decided priorities for them and approved part of their remuneration. Note that the Watch Committee was separate from the Council. Yes, we also need some form of national policing and an FBI-like service would handle that. In the meantime all power to Boris and may he really get a grip of these unelected and uncontrolled mavericks.
- Patrick, St Albans, UK
@Leon - Which movie have you been watching?
Last few times I've had to call the Police they haven't shown up.
- Hansel, London
What is so wrong with making the police accountable to their employers - i.e. the tax-paying public?
It is no surprise that clear-up rates for serious crime are at their lowest ever level and that the majority of citizens have no confidence whatever in a Met "service" that is more concerned with diversity training and pandering to the BBC/Guardian.
If we have nerve to defend ourselves if attacked, they accuse us of "taking the law into our own hands" and prosecute us. Well, fellas, it's actually our law, not yours, and if you don't want to do your jobs properly then maybe the Mayor should sort you out.
- Charlie Jordan, London, England
The Police are there for all of us Twenty Four hours a day Seven days a week and if your life is in danger all you have to do is dial : 999 and within minutes the Police will be there to face Death or Injury if they had to, "Who Else Would Do That For You"???. This great Police Force that we have in London do not need outside influence to be told how to do their job . Also what if a corrupt Mayoralty , Government , Organisation or Body had total power over our Police Force ?, they then would not beable to prevent corruption . Maybe one day our own Police force will become "Only For The Rich and Powerful " We should all be concerned !
- Leon, London
It is absolutely essential that the Police are Crown Servants, and neither controlled by political parties,nor, more importantly, by unelected members of The Association of Chief Police Officers, who themselves appear to have an unhealthy influence on government policing policies. A case sometimes of the "Tail wagging the Dog ".A clean sweep throughout the present policing system, and a return to more acceptable behaviour by them,and bearing in mind that they are there to SERVE THE PUBLIC, MIGHT REINSTATE SOME OF THE RESPECT THEY HAVE LOST OVER THE PAST TEN YEARS.
- John Bennett, York, Yorkshire
Lunatics in charge of the Police?
So, no change there then.
- Anil Chatterjee, Manchester
the police force is already under the control of lunatics, the labour government. my compliments to Sir Hugh for an excellent, bit of spin though, he talks as if the police are completely unpoliticised. I competely agree with him that the police should be unpolitical
- Bob Barker, leicester england
If the BNP form a democratically - elected majority on any political unit that is entitled to supervise the police, then this man will find himself in a very difficult position.
The BNP already have two elected MEP's and may well obtain further political success in the future. It is the height of arrogance for the ACPO to decide which political parties they deem 'acceptable' and which they do not.
As for describing elected politicians as 'lunatics', Sir Hugh Orde has done great damage to any attempt to keep politics out of policing.
Does he believe that policemen are not to be held accountable?
- Manny Goldstein, London, England
What if a corrupt Mayoralty , Government , Body or organisation had power within or over The Police Force ? The Police Forces all over the United Kingdom should remain independent otherwise they will become powerless to stop corruption and ultimately become a laughing stock in many different ways.
- Mr Tom, London
What if a corrupt Mayoralty , Government , Body or organisation had power within or over The Police Force ? The Police Forces all over the United Kingdom should remain independent otherwise they will become powerless to stop corruption and ultimately become a laughing stock in many different ways.
- Mr Tom, London
Too right. Kit Malthouse should be institutionalised. He's a puffed up nobody.
- James Baker, Bromley
Sir Hugh Orde should have spoken out (or louder if he did) when Sir Ian Blair openly campaigned for (Za)NU-Liebore at the last General Election (Police vehicles displaying 'Vote Labour' signs) or is it only now that the Tories are taking action that they will speak out? Any how, who sits on the panels that appoint Chief Police Officers - isn't it members of the local police committee? They are people put forward by local councils (or in the Met's case Central Government) so they are political appointees. H'mm yes the more I think about it the more it seems like the trendy liberal-left are sulking that the police might just start to be made to address the concerns of the people in their area and not the faceless policy wonks from the Home Office (Department of Dodgy Statistics).
- Jim, London
Lunatics like Gordon Brown perchance?
Basically the Met seems to be frightened of the peoples choice. Thats a good reason why the police chiefs should be elected just like the US. We have already had a Met chief in Labours pocket (Blair) and he was useless. Bring on the elected version.
Public servants in this country strongly need to be reminded just who they work for and here's a clue it isn't anyone in westminster it's us the people who pay their wages. The arrogance of 'Sir Hugh' is staggering.
- Ethan, UK
so "a lunatic" may take control of the police. and thats different from the current situation, how?
- Josh, london
