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Sadly the removal of beds has more to do with a personal vendetta by Councillor Coleman rather than any genuine interests in increased productivity.Mr Coleman has referred to Fire Stations as "Travel Lodges" in the past and is determined to see beds go.Unfortunately the Chair of the Fire Authority is allowing his own personal dislike of the FireFighter community to over rule common sense and the public will be the people who suffer.If you want station closures at night then support 12 hour shifts.If you have ever had to use the fire service then you will know that waiting 4 minutes seems a long time - If Coleman has his way imagine what it will be like waiting for 15 - 20 minutes.Suddenly the 1 0r 2 pound saving a year in your council tax doesnt seem like a great idea afterall.Save your Fire Service - get rid of Brian Coleman !!

- Bayleaf, Brighton uk

They took the beds from us here in the West Mids....there next step was to remove 13 Fire engines at night.
It all comes down to cuts.
Firemen all over the World are allowed to rest so they are as fresh as possible to respond to a job.
You can't compare us with Police and Ambulance...none of the 999 services do the same jobs....thats why we all have different conditions of service.
At least we turn up,in numbers,within minutes to try and help everyone.
Not within hours,or days...and do very little.
My Wife has 2 jobs....and she is not a Firefighter...My Brother has 2 jobs....and he is not a Firefighter....
Its all about trying to earn enough money to pay the bills.
When you pay almost 15% of your wages into a pension scheme...it does not leave that much at the end of the month.
Why do i pay that much? So if i end up dead in the line of duty, (like so many of my brothers and Sisters over the las 15 years),my Wife just might get a bit of help with the mortgage.
There will always be people that moan about us....but thats because the are uneducated and know nothing about our job.

- Nickfire, Warwickshire

LFB are publicising the removal of beds in an attempt to garner public support and cover up what's really happening - the closure of some fire stations during night shifts. When these plans come to light they should rightly expect an even bigger public outcry.

- Tanya, London, UK

I'd suggest a compromise, 12 hour shifts are dangerous too, if the shifts were made 8 hours it would allow the lads to work 40 hour weeks like the rest of us, thta way they could also sleep during the day and the brigade could remove the beds, simple no?

- Bob, Cheam

Brigades all over the country are trying these shift patterns with poor results, many have replaced the beds with reclining chairs so firefighters can still rest. This has led to an increase in back problems and other injuries as you cannot leap up from a reclined chair in the same way you can a bed. These shifts are also completely not family friendly as child care becomes a problem and for those firefighters with young children at school would probably not see their kids whilst on their 4 duty days (worse case scenario). For the 1 parent families that put their kids in nursery how many people know a nursery that will stay open until 8.00 p.m?
Fire service budgets should not be cut as we all pay a part in the council tax we pay, and as my council tax goes up each year too pay for these services so should the budget given to the brigades. No fire stations should be closed anywhere in the country as this will just add extra pressure on those that remain.

- Superclan, Warwickshire (SAVE OUR STATIONS)

What is the point of taking the beds away? Fireman do a tough job and should be able to sleep at night if they wish. There is no point them being tired as they need all the energy they can get if a job comes in. What does Brian Coleman think the fireman should be doing at night instead of sleeping? It's not like they are skiving, if there are no incidents then there is nothing for them to do anyway. It's not like they are going to be installing smoke alarms in peoples houses at night. Let them sleep for goodness sake. Tired fireman won't be good for anyone!

- James, Barnet

The FBU are pleased that like them some authority members recognised that the brigades proposals were flawed, as they failed to show why change was necessary, especially given the audit commissions comments that the london fire brigade are performing to an excellent standard. Brigade proposals are nothing more than change for change sake and this stands in total contradiction to the public consultation document, london safety plan 3. Firefighters are not affraid of change through modernisation but not at the expense of cuts to front line appliances, which would inevitabily impact on public and firefighter safety. Twelve hour shifts would give rise to such cuts in future years. Cuts such as the closure of Manchester Square fire station, which today the chair of the fire authority (Brian Coleman)claimed was a total stitch up job, just like other cuts at that time.The brigade claim the change is about productivity, but firefighters know the real reason for change has always been about the removal of beds and cuts to front line services. The public are not stupid they pay for and rely upon the firefighters attendance when required and i am sure they would not wish to have firefighters who are fatigued and exhausted turning up in their hour of need.Common sense has today prevailed and firefighters will continue to accept change to provide a first class service to the public, but not at the expense of cuts, safety or worse conditions of service.

- Ian, London uk

The London Fire Brigade is a first class organisation which is under attack from nasty Fire Authority members. The effect on morale to this close- knit and hard-working organisation is very dangerous.

- Mat Rosendale, Sevenoaks, Kent

About time too. Why should anyone in any occupation be paid to go to bed? The Police and Ambulance crews work night shifts without the luxury of getting their heads down all night long. Firemen will obviously kick up a stink because the like to sleep all night so they are fresh in the morning to go out in their Black Cabs and earn a couple of hundred quid extra each day cabbing.

- Matt, Islington

Aaah so poor little fire fighters are going to get tired!! About bloody time!

Perhaps if they slept during the day then they wouldn't be tired during the night! But, of course, this is what this is really about, firefighters want to sleep at night because the majority of them have day jobs.

If the Police, ambulance staff, hospital staff etc. etc. manage to stay awake all night, why shouldn't firefighters? Ever noticed how many black cabs there are parked outside fire stations?

- Chris, Brighton, England

Police don't get to sleep on nights & have to work twelve hours, etcetera. Why should trumpton get all the perks?

Oh, because they can strike........silly me.

- Tom, London

My husband is a fireman. He does 2 day shifts 9-6 followed by 2 nightshifts 6-9. Firefighters will spend the first couple of hours of a nightshift checking over vehicles and equipment for safety in between going 'out on shouts'and sorting out paperwork and getting something to eat. He might go to bed after 11, never earlier as they are all waiting for something to happen, and on 95% of nights never for more than an hour or two between shouts. Most shouts are automated fire alarms and take about an hour to deal with and are quite often false alarms - by law new build properties/developments need a fire alarm connected to the fire station. There are a lot of frying pan fires in the early hours after a few drinks or candles and hopefully they respond quickly before the fire gets out of hand. That's apart from the big ones that save peoples lives and risk their own, luckily they're not every night. Then they might get another shout or they might get to 'sleep' for another hour or two before the next call. They're up by 6/7. If there is a big fire they don't go home when their shift ends, they go home when a building has been made safe. He has worked from 6pm the previous evening to 2pm the following day, 20hrs, and then reported back for night duty at 6pm the same evening, yes 3 hours later. There are not enough firemen. There are more fatal fires at night. I'd rather he had somewhere to lie down between risking his life for you and me - the compensation is not that great.

- Louise, London

I fear another strike is on the cards and I for one will stand side by side with them !

- Linda Cliff, London

For crying out loud, what are the lads supposed to sleep on?

- Graham Rodhouse, Helmond, Netherlands

Why shouldn't they sleep in the fire station? Why is it better if they are made tired by keeping awake while waiting for the alarm to go off? And if they've already done an burst of intense physical labour at one incident, isn't it a lot *better* if they then catch an hour or two of sleep before the next one?

Bosses call it "power napping", and they've only got their brains in need of rest!

I'm assuming that firemen sleep in their uniforms, so that when the alarm bells ring they can jump straight into action without any delay. And maybe the rule should be different for the driver, because he has to be alert enough to drive safely (at speed, through red lights) from the moment the fire engine leaves the station. The rest of the crew have a few minutes for the adrenaline to fully kick in en route.

This is typical "one size fits all" thinking. Fireman is an unusual job, and the rules should be written for that particular job. Didn't these same bosses want to do away with the pole, and have the firemen run down flights of stairs instead, thereby delaying their response by at least thirty seconds and also risking a fall on stairs that could break a limb or a neck?

- Nigel, London

Surely forcing firefighters to stay awake for 48 hours is illegal. If we did it to a terrorist suspect there would be outrage as it would be classed as torture. Plus if the firefighter drove home after being forced to stay awake for 48 hours and crashed killing someone,he would be charged with death by dangerous driving. Also I am sure the residents of London will love the Brigade drilling at all hours with revving engines, what work are they expected to do in the middle of the night? They can't even undertake technical training as they would keep nodding off. Get a life Coleman, we've had the best fire service in the world since the 2nd World war so don't ruin the one good service we still have. Support the firefighters as a sleepy one might drop you down the ladder while your fat cat politician will be miles away in his feather bed never having done anything to help the public let alone put their lives on the line. The only true efficiency would be to get rid of fools like Coleman.

- Tom Steel, Dorking, Surrey

sir with respect have you ever done a hard days work,as an ex firefighter from the LFB from a busy F division station i can tell you that if you keep the watch awake all night this will lead to fatige and then the enevitable you will loose more fire fighters this is ca crazy and pointless excersise ,the crews with will spend more time travelling to duty,see less of there families for what ,so that you can have the crews in the yard drilling all night ,keeping the locals awake,at my station they used to complain when we went out with 2 tones going so what are they going to do when they drill all night ,remember Mr councillor that they elect you and they can soon get rid of you

- Rich, hassocks uk

What idiot came up with this idea.Must be some rich guy that has never worked a real job all his life,give our firefighters their beds back so they are fresh when they put their lives on the line to save us and are properties.

- Dave, london

Councillor Coleman says this is for modernisation,if he really wanted modernisation he would bring in 8 hour shifts thereby getting 24 hours of productive hours a day.
Those of us within the LFB know 12 hour shifts are merely a device to enable fire cover to be reduced at night.
Tests have shown that firefighters use as much energy in 30 minutes of firefighting as a builder uses in 8 hours.
12 hour shifts will lead to exhausted crews making poor decisions at life and death situations,often where they put their own lives on the line to save others (Do you know any other occupation where people do that ?).
12 hour shifts will also have a dire impact on vehicle accidents involving fire appliances,LGV rules on maximum hours at work will be breached on every shift.Although the Brigade does have a legal opt-out from these regulations,the provision of beds allowed the drivers to be as well rested as possible on the current 15 hour night shift,changing the shift pattern so that drivers are exceeding the maximum permitted LGV working hours may be legal,but is it sensible?
If you are ever unfortunate enough to need the services of the Fire Brigade to save you or your loved ones from a Fire or road accident,I hope that you get a crew that is well rested enough to give the service that you deserve.

- Harrison, Ruislip, UK

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