Morning:
8°c
Barack Obama ambassador snubs Boris Johnson over embassy’s £3m C-charge bill
Joe Murphy, Political Editor22 Sep 2009
America's new ambassador to London today snubbed Boris Johnson's call to pay a backlog of £3 million in unpaid congestion charges and fines for non-payment.
Louis Susman, appointed by President Barack Obama to head diplomatic efforts here, said bluntly: “We don't think it's appropriate to pay.”
He also rejected pressure to pay about £50 million of VAT bills that the British government
insists are owed on the construction of a new embassy building in Nine Elms.
Mr Susman defended the decision on the grounds that conventions state that diplomats do not
have to pay taxes.
“Any tax that we think violates the agreements
won't get paid,” he declared in an interview with
the Financial Times.
London's Mayor says America's debt for the C-charge has been mounting since the zone
was introduced in 2003 and the embassy claimed it was exempt from fees.
Only about 70 per cent of foreign embassies in
London pay the charge. Transport for London says it is a service charge which embassies must pay, rather than a tax.
Mr Johnson said this year he hoped Mr Obama would usher in “a more co-operative approach” from the embassy.
Mr Susman is a close ally and top fundraiser for President Obama.
Former mayor Ken Livingstone was more blunt, referring in 2006 to the former US ambassador
Robert Tuttle as a “chiselling little crook”.
Other non-payers include the Russian embassy, which owes more than £1.8 million, and the Japanese embassy which in November last year owed
£1.77 million.
Reader views (22)
Simply put...there is not one darn thing the UK can do about it; welcome to the club of being bullied by the biggest dog in the park.
- Harry, Ontario, Canada, 22/09/2009 23:32
Report abuse
They could always cycle to work.
- David, London, 22/09/2009 15:15
Report abuse
I think America is going to be awkward in a lot of things with the UK vis a vis the release of the Lockerbie prisoner.
Let every American remember this. The IRA were funded and some given haven, by Americans. Some were powerful people in the land. American citizens long funded and extended a reign of terror and violence on mainland Britain. It would be a very bad day for America if all those in the United Kingdom who were maimed, traumatised or who lost loved ones, rose up in a collective display of anger and finger pointing blame. Also, Libya has had to pay financial compensation to Americans. Americans have not yet assumed similar responsibility to Britons.
No doubt America will continue to refuse to pay their back taxes. Their democracy knows no heights and their hypocrisy no bounds.
- Patricia, London, 22/09/2009 14:10
Report abuse
Those who berate the "Americans" should consider that the EU also decided that the C-Charge is a tax and that countries like Germany now refuse to pay. The international definition of a tax against a service charge includes the concept of "provision of services" in return for a payment. Hence the US and German embassies pay parking charges and road tolls. But when the Mayor increased the price from £5 to £8 and offered no additional services, he finally clearly established the charge as a tax...neither the former or current mayors want to obtain a legal ruling on this, for the embarrassing reason that it would be defined as a tax. And it would make clear that the UK does not pay anywhere in the world local taxes that it is not obliged to pay either. And do any of those who criticise the decision by the US, the EU and other countries for not paying a tax ever themselves pay a tax that they are not obliged by law to pay!
- Damian Hockney, London, UK, 22/09/2009 13:46
Report abuse
A lot of the posters here miss the point.
An embassy and its diplomatic staff are free of all civil and criminal penalties as a matter of law e. g. the U. S. Ambassador cannot be prosecuted for a crime, even if he admits to having done it. The same applies to the Congestion Charge, which was Ken's little charmer, was it not, is unenforceable under english law as well as internatiuonal law. Those who brought in this charge must have known that, in the same way countless African states do not pay parking fines, which I believe the americans do.
On a separate point, Mickinlondon, the Americans cannot put their Embassy wherever they want it. They have to go through the same processes that we do for planning and so on. I would agree, though, that if Planning Permission was granted but not followed the local planning authority is powerless to do anything about it once built.
- Captain Black Of The Mysterons, London, England, 22/09/2009 13:37
Report abuse
Jake, Middx: Yes we can hypothesis about a lot of things Jake; what if, what if not etc; but you have to be free before you can do any of that etc.
Remember this Jake; our European friends were no help to us at all then; Germany wanted to rule the World, and destroy England; and the French with an army of a million men; surrendered in one month, without even trying to fight or defend themselves against Germany etc.
We gave the Americans penicillin is another example; but only because we could not produce enough ourselves for our own needs, at that time etc; whilst the Americans could manufacture all we, and the rest of the world needed etc
Much like most things then; the USA had manufacturing power like no other nation had; even the Nazis needed slave labour just to keep themselves going in their pursuit of world domination etc.
But my thoughts are with the ordinary American that fought with us and supported us; they bled the same blood we bled, and they died in their thousands fighting for the same freedom we Brits did etc; that demands respect, in my opinion; but I am old English, something you younger English may know very little of etc.
If you look at the world today; only the USA and Britain, still fight for freedom; all the rest have capitulated and surrendered.
If we have anything to be ashamed of today it is the continual erosion by the British government itself; of our freedom of speech, and our own birth-rights hard fought for and paid with blood
- Mickinlondon, london, 22/09/2009 13:05
Report abuse
"The USA is right" / "They have an Embassy here; it is considered American soil" / "If any country then obstructs free movement to and from their Embassies; you can expect them to object"
Absolute farcical response. It's american soil, correct but the 'soil' to and from their homes is not american soil. And the UK is certainly not obstructing free movement, they can get on a bus, tube, walk or even get a taxi if they so wish. By all means have complimentary parking outside the embassy, I've no problem with that but their cars are contributing to congestion and pollution so they should pay like everyone else, unless they of course have decided to drive around in electric cars...
Mickinlondon where's you're next stand-up routine? I'd love a ticket for that.
as for WW2, are you sure you have your facts right??
- Andy, Richmond, 22/09/2009 12:51
Report abuse
maybe the americans will pay their tax bill once the brits pay theirs to the cypriot govt.....its been outstanding since jul 1974.....!
- Dimps, london, 22/09/2009 12:50
Report abuse
Boris must kick the ambassadors, hard and repeatedly, until he pays up the lot.
- Anthony, Esher, Surrey, 22/09/2009 12:40
Report abuse
here's the bottom line:
- they don't have to pay
- they have said they won't.
maybe town hall needs to stop trying to make cheap political capital, by chasing headlines on the matter. let it go.
- Scotty, london, 22/09/2009 12:40
Report abuse
They have 'Diplomatic immunity',just like all embassy personnel, and this has been known from day one. -Boris can complain all he wants, but unless the rules are changed, he's not due a penny!
- Huggy, Cumbernauld Scotland, 22/09/2009 12:33
Report abuse
Quote: Andy, london. So long as the Americans don't expect to get planning permission for their new offices until the bill is paid that is fine! They most definitely should not be allowed to do so VAT free which I believe is their latest demand.
-------------------------------------------
If the Americans wish to build a new Embassy; that is their right to do so; just as it is the right of the British to do the same in the USA.
VAT is a European tax; which replaced our British purchase tax; it has nothing to do with the USA at all etc.
What you fail to see, ''Andy'' is that VAT is added to almost everything you buy right down the line from manufacture to the selling point etc; unlike purchase tax which was only added to luxury goods at the point of actually buying a luxury good of any kind etc.
Now the Europeans, and the Brits included; are robbed constantly by this European Value Added Tax fiasco etc; but you cannot expect the Americans to be robbed as well; they are not that stupid etc.
Trust me Andy; The Americans will build their new Embassy; and free from all British Taxes; this is also right under International laws regarding International Embassies on foreign soil etc.
- Mickinlondon, london, 22/09/2009 12:30
Report abuse
Why do so many people confuse the spelling of "their" and "there"? The teaching of grammar in schools is not what it was...
- Sally Roberts, Hammersmith, London, UK, 22/09/2009 12:26
Report abuse
Mickinlondon, london - "Lets also remember the debt the UK owes America; when they stood with us during WW2, without them".
As I remember it we have only just repaid that debt, with massive interest and I am sure that vast amounts of American products and know-how were sold as a result of that involvement as well as the obtaining of German knowledge and didn't we give them the secrets of the jet engine amongst other things - to the inventors determent and the massive loss of British lives in providing such American commercial opportunities
They owe us, not the other way round.
- Jake, Middlesex, 22/09/2009 12:10
Report abuse
So long as the Americans don't expect to get planning permission for their new offices until the bill is paid that is fine! They most definitely should not be allowed to do so VAT free which I believe is their latest demand.
- Andy, london, 22/09/2009 11:31
Report abuse
Let's face it, they have absolutely no respect for the British. The only thing we have in common is English.
- Matt, London UK, 22/09/2009 11:30
Report abuse
Perhaps Mr Susman should become persona non grata at all the clubs and restaurants of London until he plays ball, as the yanks like to say.
- St, London, 22/09/2009 11:26
Report abuse
The USA is right.
They have an Embassy here; it is considered American soil; just as the British Embassy in the USA is considered British soil etc.
If any country then obstructs free movement to and from their Embassies; you can expect them to object and ignore these unreasonable laws or unreasonable recommendations, especially if its a just a tax based restriction etc.
You cannot expect any Foreign Embassy to pay taxes to another country, that is not their own country etc; just as the British would not do so either etc.
Sadly the American Embassy will be moving from central London in the near future, but by doing so; they will not have to put up with this cheap money making racket from the GLA.
I am sure the American Government would have no problem or hesitation, in paying this congestion charge at all; if it fell within international laws and etiquette on Embassies etc; but it clearly does not.
Therefore; they are correct in my opinion, in refusing to pay this unjust demand etc.
Lets also remember the debt the UK owes America; when they stood with us during WW2, without them; we would all probably be German speaking today, or even dead.
Yes America; many of us older Brits; do remember all you did long ago; and for them and myself; I say thank-you.
And please feel free to drive all over the UK; Free of any tax or charges etc, and do not worry about Boris, he will be gone, long before the USA will....Mickinlondon.
- Mickinlondon, london, 22/09/2009 11:10
Report abuse
Not so easy for the British Government to impose there stealth taxes on other countries, as it is the dumb British public"
The Community Charge is a London phenonemom thought up and implemented by the mayor. If you don't like it, blame Boris, not Gordon Brown
- Keith Price, Luton England, 22/09/2009 11:05
Report abuse
service for what?!?!?
- Mario Kempe, london, 22/09/2009 10:47
Report abuse
Arrogant Americans strike again.
We want something from you we Americans will demand it or take it
But
You want something from us we will refuse to give it
Such is the fair and balanced nature of the relationship with this self-centred country
- George, Essex, 22/09/2009 10:09
Report abuse
Not so easy for the British Government to impose there stealth taxes on other countries, as it is the dumb British public that vote for the Government.Service charges indeed!Next we will be told VAT is a service charge!
- Kev, London-UK, 22/09/2009 09:49
Report abuse
