Reader views (72)

 Add your view

As a visitor to this country on a visa I have to be honest: some serious changes need to be made here before this country gets any worse. This story is the fruit, not the root of the problem. This society needs to prioritize family and community instead of money and pleasure. The youths are like wild animals here. They do what they want and face no real consequences. People need to be parents to their kids, not be so intimidated by their children that they just don't raise them right.
There is no community, not real family structure here. All I see are 13 year old mothers getting free houses and cars from the government and drunk kids and adults staggering around on every corner. No real desire for higher education, no real desire for hard work. Just a trip to the dole office and then a trip to the weatherspoons. Less education, more ignorance, more crime. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't because I was asked to come, believe me. It's sad but I have to say; thank goodness I am out of here next year. Everyone that I talk to from outside the uk here legally and to offer their skills feel the same way, which makes my heart sink every time I speak with them. I mean, even Londoners will tell me these things! My only concern is what will it take for London to come to its senses? Scary.Its true that large cities always have problems, but London is the worst of them all. Ít's a zoo, Halloween every night over here.I've never seen anything like this.The quality of life sucks.

- L, London

The fact is this stuff is happening all the time in this country, if you can all it one it's more like a zoo. It's ok for all the blind liberal idealists to say you can’t blame parents, police and the government but who makes the rules, when you’re a child it’s up to the parents to install ethics and discipline from day one so yes parents are part of the problem, the government and the house of lords have the power over the laws, the police are there to find people who don’t abide by them and the courts to punish them, the whole system has to work together or you get social break down. As far as immigration goes it can take some of the blame in a lot of countries this is the norm and when this kind of thing is normal what can you expect people don’t change overnight, just like this problem can’t be fixed over night. The government, police, courts, parents and the immigration need to get their act together before the public start taking things in to their own hands, and you can’t single groups because maybe a lot of Black, Asian crime but the is also plenty of white crime.

- John Gaskell, Rye, East Sussex

Pity for the couple but these things happen when the laws and justice system stops protecting the innocent and starts to protect the criminals.

We do not have home invasions in Finland because you WILL get stabbed, beaten or shot dead if you try it.

Criminals with shotguns should be dealt with swift and final violence on the spot. Big boys games big boys rules like the SAS soldiers used to say. Touchie feelie does not work with hard core criminals.

Put the fear back in criminals and nobody will get hurt.

- Matti Jokinen, Helsinki, Finland

I stumbled over this incident accidentally by an article on a swiss news agency. It seems to be the same all over Europe. Leftist that want to disarm the people, building up laws that comforts criminals and leaves the victims all alone. I can tell you this, even here in my country the society is going down the drain, more and more. It's not that terribel as in the UK yet, but it will certainly get worse in the future, because politicians don't care. You have the same problems in Germany and all the other neighbour countrys around switzerland

To tell it straight and clear: It is quite clear that this has to do with leftist politics and immigration. Everyone denying this is a complete ignorant!

It needs harsh laws, zero tolerance and hard consequences to the comitters and there accomplices (very often family members how know it all). otherwise all gets out of control and the righteous people have to care for themselves.

- Roman Fenner, Baar, Siwtzerland

Nothing in this country surprises me anymore - the whole country is going down the plughole. There is no law and order! The sooner my family and I leave this country the bettwer! If you love your family you should do the same if you can!

- Ellie, Belsize Park, London

LOL.. the reactionary, right wing, racist UK is just below the surface, dying for an excuse to bubble up, isn't it! The BNP must be loving this. Oh, the offender was black.. it's all about black men and their attitudes towards women. Get serious, you clowns. The UK of today is a product of all the years you fools have allowed/expected the government to coddle you. Nobody takes ownership of anything, no-one is responsible for anything, and this kind of thing comes as a surprise?

Give your heads a shake. You yourselves are to blame. You've allowed your society to become what it has- a nanny state laughing stock where anything goes.

And yes, I live here though I am not 'from' here.

- K.D, London

Despite all the talk about who is responsible and what should be done to them, we all know this govt. and the police etc do not really care.
The only thing I can say to people is look after yourself, keep your home safe and defend yourself by ANY and ALL means necessary should such people try to enter your home. Forget the police they are not going to get there in time if they bother to come at all.
Dont be afraid to use whatever force is necessary as such intruders obviously are not just happy to take your property, they want to hurt, humiliate and destroy your life like they have done to this innocent couple.
Another point I would like to make is this-if the powers that be do not tackle crime like this, London eventually will empty of decent people that make the place tick and will just become a complete wasteland.
Its up to the govt. they alone can start to tackle this anarchy.

- Russell, London

This is a sickening story and will upset and anger 99.5% of the population. Why has it taken so long for it to come to the public's attention? Surely the police would have caught the perpretrators by now if the details had been revealed sooner? Their trail has probably gone cold now.
What's worrying for the couple involved and the general public is that these perverts are still at large.

- Des Pollock, London

If they get caught, the judge will probally give them 6 months in jail!

- Nick Baitson, Toronto Canada (expat)

An Audi tt in finsbury park??? You may as well have painted a target on your front door

- Bo, Uk

I came from a working class, broken East End family. I have had a poor education and hung around in groups on street corners as a teenager. So I don't agree with not having role models or coming from broken homes. But I had good values and ethics instiled in me as a child from my hard working family. My mother had to work 3 jobs to pay the bills. I had family that went through two wars and served for their country, all of whom have continued to be law abiding citizens. However, we are not all perfect but none of my family or myself have ever disrespected another human being or our enviroment. In fact the look of disaproval on my grandmother/mothers face was enough to stop me from mischievousness as a child. Wow, look how far society has moved on and I am only 42 years old! That tells me that it is not the same society that I grew up with!

- Ashley Smithson, st albans

I was shocked to see a photograph of what was (until I moved away a year ago) my local corner shop, and even more shocked to read the story. I do not think the police were "holding this back", I am sure there will have been yellow "witness wanted" boards up because they will have hoped to have got information from people who are in the area. Unfortunately I do not remember this case specifically, because there was always at least one yellow board in the area (one of the spring 2008 stabbings was less than 5 minutes walk from this spot). Finsbury Park is a very deprived area with a lot of crime, but this is not well known to a lot of Londoners. I am sure many people bought their first home here in the last rush of the property boom, and will be stuck in a rapidly de-gentrifying area for a long time.

To those of you blaming Brown for this, you should be ashamed - some things are not suitable for ammunition in Punch and Judy politics, as I am sure Cameron would agree.

- James, London

Thank you for your response to my letter Mr. Mc of London - I am not sure whether you are aware but Texas has an open gun law - you can keep a gun in your car (obviously you have to have a Permit) but people are aware of this and the general public here drive in a "defensive manner".
People we know here who live way out in the country certainly do have loadaed guns/rifles in their houses/ranches and one couple we know (she is a qualified gun instructress, keeps guns down the sides of the sofa but does not have any children.
We have "guns" in our house but they are kept well out of reach of children but I would not hesitate to use them on someone trying to attack my family in my home or anywhere else.
Maybe, the UK should allow Taser sales to the public, with a Permit requirement.
The sadest thing is that the Government are not listening to the people who put them there - bring back capital punishment PLEASE

- Elizabeth Taylor, dallas

This is disgusting and disturbing, I agree with the above comment with regards to police taking 18 months to release images as these animals could have been doing similar acts since then and god knows what before the incident. By the way this won't be a job for Trident as thats black on black gang violence and also allowing people to own guns is not a solution as America is a great example of what happens when everyone and anyone owns a piece it just escalates the violence. Stiffer sentecing and more prisons is needed instead of nuclear subs we are so busy plunging money into war and banks we've forgotten grass root society

- Chris Antoine, London

If by some fluke they manage to catch these animals, what is the very worst they can expect to face in the way of sentence? They would be back on our streets all too soon - after having been given preferential housing and benefits to set them up of course! They are part of a society where there is no discipline for them at school and none at home - the law holds no fear, and violence in all forms is glamourised.These young people leave school hardly able to read and write and struggle to put a sentence together. What is there for them to aspire to? This softly-softly namby-pamby approach has obviously not worked. Where better to intruduce a sense of discipline and purpose than our army? There is definately nobody else out there capable of it.

- Mm, cheshunt; herts

There are stories like this in the USA but the ending is frequently different! The intruders end up with a little lead injection courtesy of Glock, Colt or S&W!! The right to defend yourself is still respected in the USA, sadly not in Britain which spends vast amounts of lawyering money defending crimminal scum.

- James Macleod Ritchie, Oyster Bay Cove

Yes, Frank, dirty underhand tricks like challenging people to substantiate their opinions with proof and defeating arguments by using inconvenient facts rather than simplistic rhetoric, don’t you just hate it when liberals do that!?!

- Nj, London

I don't think this is really the right place to criticise either the Government or the Police.

This is a disgusting and seemingly opportunistic crime against a vulnerable member of the public. Nobody is to blame for this other than the filth that carried out this attack.

Yes, it's taken some 16 months for these images to be released, but nobody knows for sure why that's the case. For all we know the Police have had a team dedicated to solving this crime since it took place, and that releasing details prior to now could have prejudiced their ongoing enquiries. Alternatively, perhaps the victim did not want their details to become public at a time when she's trying to put this horrible act behind her in order to care for her newborn child. We really don't know enough, so let's not be so hard on the Police. They often take flack for "not doing enough", but they're in a difficult position. A large part of their job involves being selective as to what they release to the media, and often the successes they do enjoy are overruled by the Law Courts.

I also can't believe that some people are suggesting that this has happened because of our policies towards immigration. It's an entirely unassociated issue.

I hope the victims are able to recover from this ordeal and enjoy the rest of their lives as a family.

- Kc, Upminster, UK

Definitely need to bring back capital punishment, people like this arent scared of doing these things because even if they do get caught theyl get a couple of years and come out jail thinking there even better and stronger for 'surviving it' men who are rapists/child abusers etc should actually be castrated maybe that would make them think about it first. Its disgusting how easy criminals in this country have it.

- Jen, glasgow

To Sarah of Enfield and Michael of glasgow

what the hell has immigration got to do with this, for example if they were black/british and were born here, what has that got to do with immigration, are you saying that their parents who came here in the 60's are the problem, dont use this as your soapbox to air your racist views, are you saying that all people of colour are rapist and murderers, but i bet you would keep quiet about that wouldn't you?

- Henry, London

Why is this crime the fault of the labour party? didn't violent crime ever take place under the Tories?
How do you know they were immigrants, being black doesn't make the immigrants.
corporal/capital punishment doesn't act as a deterrent, if it did, there would be no crime in this country between the year dot and the mid sixties.
If you want retribution, fine, then say so, but if you get it wrong expect the law/people to exact retribution on you. i.e. you kill them, and you're wrong, we then kill you. deal?

- Kerry, Purley

Stupid, now Police will catch them via DNA! But when caught, i wonder what they will get? Under this government, they will get: 2 years in prison, 1 for good behaviour. anonymity if below 18. a change of identity even. I love Nu Labour!

- Ken, london

Elizabeth Taylor - I agree with you to a certain extent. However arming the police would, sadly, not have prevented this crime. Come to think of it even if the victims had a gun it would not have helped as they would hardly have been armed whilst watching tv

- Mr Mc, London

There is an "elephant in the room" and the liberal left are using every trick in the book to enable their state of denial to be sustained. Just like their marxist fellow travellers they deny truth in spite of the evidence, which is now mounting with every day that passes.

- Frank, Dorchester Dorset

Sonia,

Richardson, Fraser the Krays and countless others all were called up for National Service and foced HM Gov to chuck them out. If you don't want to do something then nobody is going to make you!

I know a number of people who have done borstal and/or prison and it hasn't made the slightest difference and in most cases it hasn't made the slightest difference.

Another you may wish to consider is that the is a growing and disproportionate part of the prison population who are ex-army!

- Mark, South-East London

Sarah Bradshaw- prove it. Oh wait you can't, how jolly inconvenient, because your belief doesn’t really count for a lot unless you can back it up with some hard facts, not knee jerk opinion.

- Nj, London

Mark of South London,

I beg to differ regarding boot camps. When I was younger, I remember two lads I knew of being sent to borstal. On their release, they never spoke about what happened whilst they were in there, and they never went back in either. I believe it was called a short, sharp, shock treatment, and it worked for these two.

- Sonia M,, St Albans, Herts

I'm not sure that I agree with some of the comments made here. Sending criminals off to the army may take them out of the gangs, but what happens after? I'm not sure I'd want military trained 'reformed' criminals on the streets. However I'm still shocked at the heavy handed policing during the G20 summit; why aren't we tough like that on crime?

I don't mean to come across 'softly softly' but many of these undereducated, underclass come from broken homes, and don't have role models which can result in being involed in gangs, and therefore a life time of unguided, unmoral decisions based gang culture or to gain 'respect'.

I'm not saying this isn't a discusting, sickening crime and my heart goes out to the poor woman and her family. The most sickening thing about it is that the man who did this probably did brag about it, and people are too afraid to come forward. MMMM......maybe I've got it all wrong, but I'm sure you can't 'respect' someone who has been castrated!

- Colin, London

- Nj, London

Why don't you want to consider that immigration is part of the problem? I believe it it and further, I believe that people like you exacerbate the problem by denying it!

- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx

The letter that calls them "animals" is an insult to animals...they do not behave like that - these people should be put in front of a firing squad...bring back capital punishment in the UK... and let people have guns to protect themselves...what on earth is happening to my country that used to be so lovely, the government must go to the poeple and ask them to vote to bring back capital punishment - please do something quickly.
The USA MIGHT HAVE A GREAT MANY FAULTS, IN THE MINDS OF THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT AT LEAST THERE IS ZERO TOLERANCE FOR THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOUR OR DO WHAT THEY SHOULD DO - ARM THE POLICE

- Elizabeth Taylor, dallas, tx

This shows just how useless CCTV is in catching and convicting criminals. I read somewhere that for every 1,000 cameras in the UK, less than one single crime is solved. Why is the footage always so abysmal? Is it just penny pinching (ie they could afford better cameras, but just won't fund them?)? It seems both ludicrous and an insult to the victims, who must have suffered terribly, that these animals were all caught on camera yet it has been impossible to identify any of them.

- Lindsay, London

Dont you guys see,, police cant trace them because they immigrants with no records. hence...

MAssive failure on of the force here EU law hinders again

- Paul, london

Well, we can certainly see beyond your racist tunnel vision, Paul.

- Nowan King, London

- Paul, London… you obviously know something that the rest of us don’t, maybe the police should have a word with you!

But seriously, how low, to twist something like this to make a completely unrelated point about immigration. Very sad.

- Nj, London

It's a shame that we live in this type of society that devalues human life like a video game. as some one wrote about Gordon Brown and the current Govenment, but would we be better off with a Conservitave leadership. ( I think not) the people would be that same, nothing would change.

The Law needs to change in respects to parents. Just think for a moment- we cant decipline or children but when they do wrong we (The parents) get into trouble for not having control of our children.

We encourage bad behaviour with shows like "men behaving badly" and "Police camara action" as this shows the younger mob that can be fun.

Stop blaming other and take stock look after your in doors and lets hope its not too late

- Don Reid, London

Mark,

Don't talk nonsense. They have a lot less issues in Germany than here where they have life structure and respect. All men are obliged to do national service at 18 for a year and it is agreed it is a force for the good.

- Mattk, Ware

I think teh police and the government - whatever persuasion are in the last chance saloon and they need to convince they are dealing with crime right now and not have a collective working party to 'think about the very real issues which this sort of misdemeanour raises' Pah !

- Jack, Kent

When is society going to face up to the attitude of many young black men towards women?

- Michael, Glasgow

Paul, London. How do you know they are immigrants? Do you know them? If you do then you should tell the police

- Louise, London

Sonia,

Stop talking about army boot camps it's just nonsense. Some of the most notorious gangster this country has seen were either in the Army or called up for National Service and they decided they weren't going to conform, which in turn meant they were just chucked out the street.

As far as I'm concerned there are only two options:

A) Make West Falkland into a prison camp for certain grades of criminals. Give them minimal facilities, minimal freedom, no parole and no chance of escape.

B) A bullet.


A young girl (14/15) was raped, possibly gang-raped, in Bermondsey a few days ago, which has gone virtually unreported. Second such recent incident apparently.

- Mark, South-East London

Dont you guys see,, police cant trace them because they immigrants with no records. hence...

MAssive failure on of the force here EU law hinders again

- Paul, london

come the revoloution..when vigilanties will take control of violent offences and deal out real justice,.the police can carry on stopping motorists and whatever else they do.

- Rob, uk london

Every comment printed about this case is right.

I remember I heard on the TV news a similar case, back in the early 90's, of a 7 month pregnant woman being raped, in Penge (South London?).

And another old woman back in 1983.

I since have not been able to get these incidents out of my mind.

- Catherine, Europe

I totally agree with Ashley, coincidentally from St Albans! They should send these thugs to an army boot camp. No doubt, there will be howls of protests from those liberal do-gooders out there, but my late father frequently used to say "if you cannot hear, you'll feel". I'd lay bets these thugs have prior convictions, due to the violence nature of this disgusting incident. The prison regime doesn't work - it just breeds more sophisticated criminals. Finally, if I was unfortunate enough to be raped, the last thing on my mind would be the assailant's colour. It is still a heinous crime.

- Sonia M,, St Albans, Herts

John Entwistle, Hertford, England - I couldn't agree more with you, I don't think we would notice if they weren't around....

- Alan, London

You've got to feel for the police, solving horrible crimes like this is so bloomin DIFFICULT, much easier to concentrate on stopping non-threatening people enjoying themselves. Would anyone actually notice if the police vanished tomorrow??

- John Entwistle, Hertford, England

These sorts of things happen in Britain because everyone's gone soft for the last few generations. Bring back being tough with yobs, tough with criminals, tough, tough, tough! Reinstate corporal and capital punishment and prisons should be hell holes you never want to visit again, not 3 meals a day en-suite television cell complete with gym room. Yes, I have visited many prisons in my work capacity before someone chirps up how awful they are!

- Sue, Orpington, Kent

I don't believe you can blame the Government for an individuals behaviour, however I do agree that the British punishment system is outdated. I don't agree with capital punishment - for certain crimes but castration for rape, if it is black and white, I agree with. Crimes of this type are usually, but not always, comitted by the ever increasing uneducated underclass which is becoming more and more evident in Britain. My feeling is that living in a multicultural and globalised country where an uneducated, underclassed individual believes it has a right or an entitlement in life with out effort. In fact I constantly hear young people expressing their rights blatently in front of me, even on public transport. I have worked hard for every thing I own, as have my whole family. I have not had any hand outs in life, not been priviledged to a fabulous education. I am a law abiding citizen and I respect others and my environment. Yes life can be hard, for most of us, and we are not perfect but we do know the difference between right and wrong. The degree of 'wrongfullness' should be punished equally. If things don't change soon we will have a society that knows it can do what ever it wants because it will not be punished properly for it. The Army would sort out a lot of problems!

- Ashley Smithson, st albans

I hold no "brief" for Gordon Brown or New Labour but I do think we need to hear from both the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, on their proposals to eradicate or significantly reduce crime, before the next General Election.

For me,the very first step is to ensure that a 10 year sentence, say, is served to the full. Next, we need our Police to reclaim the streets from violent criminals no matter whose sensitivities are affected in the process; black, white asian, we're all in this together.

Those who carry guns or knives must be sent away for a lengthy period that reflects society's abhorrence of weapons being freely used on our streets. There should be a stop to the view that crimes which do not involve actual physical harm to the individual are not crimes of violence. Having your house or flat burgled is as mentally damaging as being punched or kicked.

I could go on but this country is spiralling out of control and no one in a position of importance seems to care about it.

Why on earth should those who raped this woman ever see the light of day again?

- Captain Black Of The Mysterons, London, England

This has made me feel sick to the stomach. Why such a long wait - May 2008 - what this couple must have gone though. For once, words fail me.

- Goggs, London

There is only one word to describe these people. Animals!
If you can't be safe in your own home, where can you be safe.

- Triffidqueen, Desk in London

Thomas you dont give enough clues to which party you support just remember what great home secretarys the conservative party has produced Mr. Howard and Mr. Baker come to mind .Just to ask you Thomas how do you base you opinion that its Labour fault for this diabolical act .As for James you also should be more specific you comments beggar belief so its not the intruders fault its Labours .Are you two stand up commedians very part time yes i vote Labour every time!!!

- Alan Hammer, london n2

London out of control and an impotent police force courtesy of the Labour Party. We now have to listen to a sickening speech from Gordon Brown on how lucky we are to have a Labour Government in power that 'has saved the world' but not unfortunately this poor woman !!

- Nick Holland, glasgow

This is a very distant photo of the suspects, there should be a closer inset showing their faces if people are to recognise them.
What kind of parents raise depraved men like this, put their parents in prison with them because they are partly responsible.

- Laura, london

This poor woman - how can these monsters do this to a defenseless mother to be!!! Outrageous - lets hope the book is thrown at them - not some pathetic Nu Liebour nod at political correctness

- David, soton

I don't care what the Police or Jack Straw say. If somebody comes into your home you have the right to use whatever degree of force you feel neccesary, which includes arming yourself beforehand. I will and I'll worry about the consequences once my family are safe.

- Mark, London

Alf Artigan, London- Do you have any proof that immigration has anything at all to do with this horrific incident? What “liberal PC policing methods” do you mean in particular? Can you actually substantiate any of your comment? I suspect not.

- Nj, London

Unbelievable! As if the robbery wasn't bad enough.

There is a real problem with the attitudes of black youth to women. I'm reffering to a recent documentary on TV, where kids have been involved in rapes. Many didn't even see forcing oral sex as rape. It was perfectly acceptable to them. Only education can change this!!!

As for these criminals. Punishment has to fit the crime!!
But that's wishful thinking in this country.

- Chavez Kubazdro, London

If I was the copper handling this case, I would spend every waking moment hunting these guys down - I wouldn't rest...

- Ben, London UK

so, as i understand, police know the gangs from every borough, but do nothing to deal with it???????? there has to be a system to stop crime!!!!! the one now is not working!!!

- A.K., london

Time the people of this country, NOT the totally out of- touch-with-reality politicians had a say in bringing back corporal punbishment as well as the death penalty. It's no coincidence that protected rubbish like them can't be bothered to do anything about it. They're kept safe.

- Minority Working Person, London/England

This story made me feel physically sick. The trauma this woman endured does not bear thinking about. And Eamon from Surrey is right, castration should apply. Any man capable of such a vile act of humanity will only go on to harm again. I just can't believe the police are only asking for the public's help now.

- Jc, London

This is nothing to do with Labour. It is everything to do with evil. The bloke that did this must be taken off the streets one way or another.

- Peace Maker, Battersea

what is London coming, to a pregnant woman?. God help us

- Eric Nwadinobi, London

What other details of serious crime are the Police holding back?

This happened in May last year, almost 18 months ago, and now, they appeal for information?

This incident raises questions about the management of the Metropolitan Police.

- John Jones, Westminster

Unacceptable that the police only wait until now to enlist the public's help. The longer the delay the greater the risk that recollections fade. It's not good enough. We are willing and often able to help, but we must be informed earlier.

- John Charles, London

Welcome to London 2009.

Unchecked immigration + liberal, PC-tied policing = increased crime.

It's not rocket science.

- Alf Artigan, London

The poor woman, what an appalling disgusting attack. This is truly reflective of the lawless morally stinking and ruined country that Labour has left to us.

- Thomas, London

Yet another example of broken Britain to be dodged by the Labour party at conference.

The residents of England should have the right to use a weapon to defend themselves when attacked in their own home !

- James, City of London

Yet another job for Operation Trident.

- Squiz, Islington

This crime is sickening, what kind of animals would even think of doing something like this? Unfortunately even if caught the punishment they are likely to receive would never outweigh the crime. This I feel is mainly why we have these horrendous and vicious attacks and the abuse of children the punishment is never enough. Then of course there is always the appeal system!!! - again more help for the offenders and nothing for the victims.

- Vivienne Genchi, Romford UK

What is wrong with the police, how can something as terrible as this have taken nearly 18 months to be brought to the public? IDIOTS!

- St, London

how can anybody deny the need for, at the very least castration, if not hanging for this type of horrible attack. DNA to a large extent negates the argument against. we call ourselves a democracy so why are we denied a referendum on the subject?

- Eamon Walsh, guildford, surrey

Add your comment

 

Name:

Your email address will not be publishedEmail:

Town and country:

Your comment:Terms and conditions make text area bigger You have  characters left.