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David Cameron rocked by Tory backlash on Europe
Nicholas Cecil, Chief Political Correspondent05.10.09
David Cameron was tonight struggling to prevent Tory in-fighting over Europe overshadowing his pre-election conference.
The Tory leader's hopes of using the Manchester gathering to showcase his commitment to tackle unemployment were badly disrupted by a resurgence of bickering over the Lisbon treaty.
A proposal to use a cut in Employer National Insurance to create 60,000 new jobs was one of the flagship policies unveiled by shadow chancellor George Osborne.
But it was overshadowed by a string of grandees and MPs who defied their leader by arguing publicly over whether there should be a referendum on the treaty if it is already law when the Tories next take power.
Mr Cameron made a plea from the conference stage to his party to address the concerns of jobless people rather than argue among themselves. “Let this be the week when rather than talking to ourselves we talk to the country,” he said in a surprise speech. Aides denied he had changed his schedule to quell the unrest. “Let this be the week when we addressed the immediate crisis facing the country, the jobs crisis,” he went on.
In the most serious apparent breach of discipline, Romford MP Andrew Rosindell, an avowed Eurosceptic, called for a referendum “whatever the circumstances”. He later withdrew the comments. Senior Tories insisted he had “mis-spoke”.
Ken Clarke seemed to indicate that he may consider taking part in the Yes campaign if a referendum is called — something which would almost certainly put him on the opposite side of the debate to Mr Cameron. The Tory leader's current policy is that if the treaty is fully ratified and his party wins power, it will not “let matters rest there.” Throughout the day, pro-European and Eurosceptic MPs lined up in a clash over the treaty.
Former foreign secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind said holding a referendum once the treaty had been ratified would be “pointless” and “absurd”.
Reader views (37)
"Pointless and Absurd" - sounds like a pretty accurate description of Malcolm Rifkind to me.
Cameron needs to wise up pretty damn quick here, he cannot divert the debate away from the creeping eurofedarists and their ever more determined attempts to remove control of our own country from us, by hook or by crook and most certainly by stealth.
Both the vast majority of the nation and the Conservative party want, need, and expect him to finally develop something that at least looks like a backbone and stop Lisbon castrating our parliament, our government and our country.
If Cameron cannot even manage this then he is plainly not fit to be prime minister.
- Matthew, London, UK
Can`t wait for the back stabbing and the blood to flow.
- Barbus, Liverpool
I really do not think, given the state of the economy, that people are really that bothered about an EU referendum just now. It is indeed an issue, but as a country we are pretty much signed up to the EU already, so any referendum will be shutting the door after the horse has bolted.
Most voters will be more concerned about the level of public debt, our failing economy limping behind the rest of Europe, and the present governments failure to control either.
- Rob, Sussex
I am a floating voter, but when I see the anti-EU nature of Tory grassroots (more UKIP than Tory) and Mr Cameron's lack of Leadership in facing them down. I get the feeling the Tory project already has a hole below the waterline and its called "Europe"/lack of unity.
- Andrew, London
If the tories dont take the nuclear option and give the people a referendum on staying in the EUSSR it will be treason against this country.
If this happens I suspect the tories will struggle to win the next election.
I believe William Hague was correct when he warned Cameron recently that the EUSSR issue was a ticking timebomb.
- Roy.C, wigan.england.
people on here who say......the people of the uk dont give a fig for this or a fig for that shut up. You dont speak for me.........or other people.......you have an opinion it's your's not mine or any else's so shut your gobs...My opinion is the Tories cant make a big as mess as this rubbish lot in power.....
- Themanoftruth, United Kingdom
yawn all of this gets tiresome there are 3 mio people unemployed out there and an isolated uk(or seperate scotland ,england etc) is not going to help reverse that. the recession was not the fault of the eu but it has happened, just think what would have happened to ireland if they had not been part of the euro,exchanging sods of earth instead of money no doubt.you can't feed your family on hot air.if you want a return of the current government then vote ukip because they will split the tory vote.we are in the eu for the long run stop whinging and start changing it if you so wish from the inside.
- Gorbie, girona spain
all three main parties are commited to the EU. Always have been. we have been lied to all the way through. Even over the 1st vote we did have, but were not told the whole truth about. Originally the French did not want us in the common market. your only choice is to vote for a party which is against the EU and for the UK. before we lose all choice in what happens to us. The three main parties will not have any vote being scared of a NO / OUr of EU Vote. At the next election really let the know what you think. or alternatively No-one vote at all. that will really scare them. They cannot be allowed to think they can fob us off with Cameron after Blair and Brown. Lets get real and not forget the MP expences scandal (which they want us to!) No free food . Rented flats from now on - not Profits from second homes. MPs treated like everyone else in the country - not an elite like in the communist states.
- Johnathan, maldon, essex
Why not promise a referendum, post election , and then democracy will be seen to be done. The British people are fairminded and sensible enough to know what's best for them, politicians seem to be frightened of allowing the voice of the people to be heard. The next government will be derelict in their duty and arrogant beyond measure if they don't allow us a say. UKIP will take a substantial number of Tory votes if Cameron doesn't face up to reality.
- Ken, london uk
David Cameron - don't blow it now. If you are concerned for what the voters want, then pay attention. A lot of the dissatisfaction with the current lot can be attributed or associated with the EU question. Deal with it if you want to get somewhere in the next election! Don't give the voters a chance to start second guessing about ditching Labour for all the right reasons vis their devolving competence in government but not addressing this issue that is important to PEOPLE rather than political ideals.
Make your stand and be judged on it. To do anything less would be a disservice to the Conservative party and all it stands for (please, no knee-jerk political rhetoric from the left-over socialists) and to the country as a whole.
- Rogan, Irving
The problem is that what the conservatives do is almost irrelevant as brown has already lied through his teeth and sold us out to the new NAZIs of Europe. Labour and its voters are traitors.
- John Bell, Nottm, UK
Wait till this bunch of losers talk about getting their precious foxhunting back. Fine with me as long as the fox is taught to use an UZI
- None Of The Above, Colchester, England
If Cameron fudges the referendum on the Lisbon Treaty it means that the British government have agreed to pass our Democracy over to Brussels.Hard pressed taxpayers in this country will pay a huge increase into the wasteful EU money pit next year!!We need that money here!The British people are angry and fed up with politicians who seem unable to put our country first!Surely the recent Irish second vote on the treaty shows the contempt the EU has with having to bother with citizen's votes in the first place,and our weak main parties in this country just want to pass over our rights to vote on our future is not good enough.The EU has become a vast,bureaucratic,unaccountable empire whose remit goes way beyond the original common market principles.It's policies are made in secret,then insufficiently scrutinised in Brussels or by National Parliaments.The regulations and directives affect our lives and burden business with endless red tape.It is high time we were asked what we think about giving yet more power to Brussels.The only party who don't have any trouble laying down the facts and who campaign for a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty is UKIP.
- Margot Parker, Weldon UK
Even people within his party realise unless the British public are guaranteed their democratic right to vote on the EU,they will vote for a party that can.NO MORE LIES,NO MORE DICTATORSHIPS,WE WILL TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY.Politicians are no more than elected public servants,elected to carry out the wishes of the people and the time has come for them to get of their high horse and realise it is us the people that will decide our future,not them.
- Dave, london
Well said Kerry and Nick. The Tories took us in and most people don't really care - hence record voter apathy at recent elections. However, in the interest of true democracy I do think disaffected Tories should definitely vote UKIP. It might give Labour a chance of hanging on. Brown and co scarcely deserve another chance, to be honest, but the alternative is frightening!
- Veritas Noire, Purley
Why vote if our representatives do not represent us?
- John Allen, London
Quite so, John Allen. And precisely why have we sent our troops to Afghanistan and Iraq to fight for democracy when our politicians do not appear to know what real democracy means?
When our representatives know that our will does not coincide with theirs, they withdraw our democratic rights.
- Kh, Nottingham, UK
Labour will have left such a scorched earth wasteland for the next government to tackle - that recovery will be impossible unless we can escape the straightjacket of thousands of EU regulations, which seem specifically aimed to do maximum damage to this country alone. Why on earth are British servicemen dying to bring ‘democracy’ to other parts of the world, when we allow ourselves to be governed by a totally undemocratic, unaccountable and corrupt foreign regime ourselves? Those who support rule by these creepy-crawlies should be treated as little better than the traitors who were hanged at the Tower.
- William Boreham, Kingston upon Thames.
The Brussels establishment is desperate to conclude the Treaty before the UK election; ie to deprive British voters of a say in the matter.
During the weekend, the French Minister for Europe railed against any delay in ratification by the Czechs, arguing that it would be frustrating the will of 500 million people. What planet do these politicians live on?
Should Poland and the Czech Republic, as seems likely, ratify before our election, Cameron will have an opportunity to state unequivocally that there will be a UK referendum. If Brussels then insists on bringing it into force, the Treaty will lack any moral legitimacy whatsoever. Moreover it will provide a perfecr opportunity for our politicians to substantiate some of their recent utterances by "reconnecting with the voters" or "addressing the democratic deficit."
I shall not be holding my breath, but I shall be voting UKIP if the Tories fail to stand up for Britain.
- John C, Leatherhead, UK
Hehe, the thin of the wedge ! Tories imploding already and we've not even started the election campaign !
When will all these idiots like Frank realise that we are stuck with Europe now that the Tories signed us up for it, and no amount of posturing and empty words from Cameron or the wretched UKIP will ever change that.
- Andy, Lewisham, London
Sorry Nick - you couldn't be more wrong! Most people are not bothered because it has never been explained properly to the country how it will effect us.
When the EU takes control of our jobs, health, the economy and education it will be an issue that could decide who wins an election. If the Tories stop hiding the truth of what really matters to them, only then we can truly decide who should govern this country!
We need to know the meat of their policies, not just banner headlines!
Is it better the devil you know or the devil behind a dark veil?
- Jade, London, England
Kerry from Purley,
I am glad I am not the only who realises that actions from 20 years ago are not ancient history like some modern thinkers would have us believe. Labour has only been in power for 12 years, why should they be accountable for changing things that happened a generation ago?
Brown has only saved the world from economic meltdown, that alone justifies the 12 years Labour have been in office.
- Keith Price, Luton, England
The Tories continuing inclination to self destruct must give great comfort to Gordon Brown.
- Peter, Ipswich UK
Radio Gormless, formerly known as Radio 5, have spent all day trying to persuade anyone who'll listen that the entire country is gagging to hear what Cameron will do about Europe. Its a dishonestly manufactured hoo hah started by Bat Ears Marr yesterday designed to drown out anything that's said at the Tory Party Conference.
I really hate journalists trying to tell me what to think and who to vote for.
- Romy Farnham, Sidcup, UK
Let us not forget that the Tories took us into the ERM to sort out the mess of the economy made by Thatcher's Pre-Election Boom also known as 'Thatcher's Economic Miracle'. It seems that the Tories were keen on Europe when Thatcher was PM and Cameron was in the Treasury as a tea-boy.
- B D'Eath, Kennington England
Under no circumstances should Cameron disclose the Conservatives plans if and when the phony EU "constitution" is ratified, because any loopholes that would enable the UK to renounce her obligations to the "constitution" would be promptly blocked by Brussels.
- Bingham Macnamara, lymington, hampshire
So Frank of the home counties, if labour are filth for not giving you a referendum, then presumably so are the Tories when they don't give you one either? Thatcher signed up for Europe, and Major signed the Maastricht treaty, heath took us in, but it is all Labours fault.
- Kerry, Purley
Sorry Frank - you couldn't be more wrong! No-one other than us saddoes on this website gives one fig about an EU referendum. It's jobs, health, the economy and education that will decide who wins this election, not a referendum debate that 99.9% of people just don't care about!
- Nick, Battersea
Cameron needs to face up to the fact that he and his inner circle are completely out of touch with mainstream public opinion and most grass roots Tory supporters, which is why so many of the latter have decamped to UKIP.
The minimal support for the EUromonster in the UK is distorted and bloated by the BBC propaganda service and mainstream politicians, who simply are not remotely interested in the wishes of the ordinary man in the street.
If Cameron will not guarantee giving us a say on this issue, which is the biggest single issue affecting our future as a sovereign nation, he is not worth your vote.
The Tories are sitting back in the belief that they will come to power next year on the back of the anti-NuLiebour backlash.
We need to get the message across to these arrogant fools that it ain't going to be that easy.
We don't simply want to vote an anti-British government out, we want to vote a pro-British government in. That means installing a government that will guarantee absolute sovereignty over our own affairs, not one that just rubber-stamps legislation and diktats from an unelected, unaccountable socialist politburo sitting in a foreign country.
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster
This division is the thin edge of the wedge - the Tories are divided on most issues which is why we haven't seen any detailed policies. eg whilst Cameron wants to protect the NHS most of his MPs do not.
- Andy, london
it's too late people, our fate was sealed when Maggy signed on the dotted line, going agaisnt the EU now would ruin this country and they know it.
- Caroline, London
Watching Eric Pickes on Hardtalk when he failed to give Andrew Neil a straight answer to the simple question of what they would do if the treaty has been ratified BEFORE the election one could see how FRIT he was to say NO REFERENDUM!!
He and Cameron on Andrew Marrs show said they did not want to affect the decisions in eastern europe!! If that was the case why all the fuss ahead of the Irish vote?
The only party so far to say they would hold a vote is UKIP so perhaps all these angry Tories should switch to that party at the election?
All this shows is as old grandad would have said "Never trust a Tory even if his lips move!"
- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex
İts so obvious call me Dave want's GB in the EU, why does he not say so, if he speaks the truth(lol) he will not be elected simple as that.
- Steve, England
Unless the Conservatives promise the country a referendum on ratifying or not this badly written treaty with its frightening powers, they will rightly lose the next general election. But more than that, after so many years of incompetence under Labour culminating in the all party trough-feeding of parliamentary expenses (Orwell's "Animal Farm" for real!), the few remaining people who care about being British will finally give up the ghost. Why vote if our representatives do not represent us?
- John Allen, London
Pledge us a vote on the EU Constitution Cameron or lose an election.
This is singularly one of the most important issues for a very long time. That filth Labour have treated the people of this country with utter utter contempt over this matter.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
If the Tories want to put one of their own men forward as President then John Major fits the Bill. He has shown that he is a staunch European by getting the Mastricht Treaty adopted without a Referendum and then getting it through a hostile House of Commons. He also took us into the Exchange Rate Mechanism. He is the obvious man for the job.
- S Jones, Kennington England
Cameron may well be irked with his European dilemma but, he should make an'offer' to the Public.
The onset of a European state is such a serious proposition-the electorate should be given the opportunity to express their views. I,personally, have no strong views either way although, I have to say, that the prosect of President Blair fills me with dread and revulsion; and,I fear, bodes ill for Europe's future.
What exactly are the politicians afraid of?
Let the people have their say, that would rsolve the matter once and for all.
- Paul, Tongue. Scotland
Two-faced Cameron is part of the governing establishment that is not going to let the British people have any say on their country becoming one of 27 provinces in a new federal state, i.e. country. He will rhyme on at the Tory conference about the economy and jobs, all the time full well knowing that if London doesn't have full control over these areas, changes can be imposed by the central government on the continent. The E.U. Constitution (aka Lisbon Treaty) is an issue a thousand times more important that any other, since it determines what powers a British government will have to pass laws in future. Yet Cameron plays it down as just another issue -- in the same league as a new fishery bill or a new divorce bill or tax bill. Cameron and Brown and Clegg are just taking advantage of the average person's ignorance of constitutional law matters. If they were responsible and believed in democracy, they would give the British people a say in the fundamental change in the system of government represented by the Lisbon 'Treaty'. The old parties are all for the new federal system. Take a chance at the next election, and vote for a party that believes in retaining the U.K. as a sovereign (self-governing) country!!
- Phil Jones, London UK
