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Boris Johnson warns Lisbon referendum 'may be difficult'
6 Oct 2009
Boris Johnson stirred the Tory row about the Lisbon Treaty again, warning that it would be "difficult" to hold a referendum if it had already come into force.
The Conservative Mayor of London said he believed "in principle" that a plebiscite should be held on the treaty come what may - but admitted it might not be practical.
His latest intervention came last night as the Tory leadership was desperately trying to play down divisions within the party over Europe.
Mr Johnson has fuelled the row with a series of comments, including a suggestion that a referendum could be held on "key parts" of the treaty if it has already been completely ratified.
David Cameron has only promised to hold a referendum if the treaty has not been ratified by all 27 members of the European Union.
He is under pressure from some Tories to pledge a referendum under any circumstances.
Speaking on BBC2's Newsnight, Mr Johnson said there would be a "real problem" holding a referendum if it had already been ratified, adding that there was a "difficult point of treaty law" in asking a population to vote on something already ratified.
"I have to accept that it may be difficult to hold a referendum," he said.
Challenged as to whether he wanted a referendum to be held even if the treaty had been ratified, he said: "In principle. Whether you could do that in the real world is a different matter. That's the difficulty David Cameron and William Hague have to face."
Tory sensitivities about the EU were underlined earlier when frontbencher Ken Clarke last night moved to rule out the prospect of him campaigning for ratification of the treaty as a member of a Conservative government.
The europhile shadow business secretary declared that he would not split a Tory Cabinet by campaigning for a Yes vote in a future referendum.
He had earlier left the possibility open in a fringe appearance on the opening day of the Conservative Party's annual conference in Manchester.
In a sign of Tory grassroots concern about the party's position on the treaty, meanwhile, another shadow minister was barracked by delegates at a fringe event when he sought to defend it.
The issue has become increasingly urgent since Ireland backed the treaty in a referendum - at the second time of asking - at the weekend.
The remaining two non-signatories, Poland and the Czech Republic, have since indicated that they are set to ratify it before an election expected next May.
Mr Clarke exposed divisions by apparently suggesting that he would consider taking part in a Yes campaign if a referendum were to be held.
Asked what role he might play in any campaign and whether fighting for the treaty would be compatible with a Government post, Mr Clarke told a conference fringe meeting: "I will wait to see if we have a referendum and I will see if either side invites me."
In a statement issued later, however, Mr Clarke said: "I did not say that I would campaign for a Yes vote if I was in government and if the eventuality arises," he said.
"I wouldn't contemplate campaigning against my colleagues."
Another shadow minister, Andrew Rosindell, was also forced to clarify his remarks after saying that voters wanted a referendum "whatever the circumstances".
He too issued a later statement, insisting he fully supported and agreed with Mr Cameron's position.
Right-wing Tory MEP Daniel Hannan said he thought there could still be a referendum in the event that the Lisbon Treaty is completely ratified before the election.
"I'm cautiously optimistic that there would be wider negotiation of our term of membership," he told the BBC's The Daily Politics.
"There would be a referendum on aspects of policy we want to get back from Brussels to Westminster.
"I wouldn't by any means rule out the possibly of it happening under a Conservative government."
At a conference fringe meeting organised by The Times, shadow energy and climate change secretary Greg Clark was jeered by delegates when he denied that the Tories had adopted a "non-position" on Europe.
A woman in the audience said the party had failed to make its position clear when voters needed clarity on the issue.
"I think we need to say that we will have a referendum," she called out to cheers and applause from other Tory activists at the meeting.
Reader views (13)
As long as Boris gives us the Luton referendum, then I will be content.
- Keith Price, Luton England, 07/10/2009 11:08
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To imply that the British citizens (you know - voters!) do NOT have a say in how their country is to be governed is to deny democracy. It is that simple. Technicalities for how to bring about a binding referendum can be worked out. Denying the right to decide who governs them would also need to be 'worked out' but that would involve some serious lying, lack of respect from those on high or even full blown contempt for the wishes of the electorate.
Sorry - did I say lying and all the rest? I meant 'spin'.
Who knows? There may be enough 'don't care', or genuine EU supporters out there to support membership of the new Euro super state. By not finding out for sure they imply that they don't necessarily believe that is the case - which takes us back to the 'lying and all the rest' thing I mentioned.
- Rogan, Irving, 06/10/2009 16:18
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As stated by James in the City of London a two part referendum would be ideal. If we don't get one there is a real possibility of Civil Unrest against the EU.
- Vince, London, West London, 06/10/2009 16:06
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My vote goes to UKIP.
- R.F.York, Yorks, UK, 06/10/2009 16:05
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Cameron will not give us a referendum on the Lisbon Constitution, as it will almost certainly be ratified by the time he comes to power. That will be his get-out clause. After all, it is not that he believes a post ratification referendum would be pointless, it is simply that he does not want to give us a referendum.
The Tory high command are as EUrophile as that of the enemies of Britain in NuLiebour and other parties that are all too keen to give away the last vestiges of our sovereignty.
All mainstream politicians know exactly what the outcome of a referendum on the Lisbon Constitution would be, that is why we didn't get one. If they were really serious about acting in the interests of Britain they would have done the right thing without having to ask.
By refusing a referendum they have only confirmed that British democracy is all but dead, as they have knowingly acted against the wishes of the British people.
It is not a referendum that is needed, it is a revolution!
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 06/10/2009 15:11
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UKIP all the way for me now,there's no way i want a group of unelected beaurocrats (including the despised warmonger Blair) dictating how i live.A real shame as i was intending to vote Tory but it honestly looks like they'll bow before the facist EU as some point soon.
- Stephen, London, 06/10/2009 15:09
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Peter Thurgood, London, UK
Now is the time to exert maximum pressure and maintain it. I live in a safe Tory seat, but if DC senses the key marginals to be at risk over this, he will come off the fence.
In fairness to Cameron, there really is no need for him to make any substantive statement unless or until the remaining two countries have ratified. It is at that point that Brussels would need to be challenged unequivocally.
- John C, Leatherhead, UK, 06/10/2009 11:35
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John C, of Leatherhead, states "If Cameron lacks the courage to do so (give us a referendum no matter what the outcome of the so-called ratification is), my vote goes to UKIP"
You are not the first person to state this John, and I think there will be many more in the forthcoming months who will say and possibly do, the same.
It is exactly the same with pro-smoking groups, who have been asking for a definite answer from Cameron for many months, whether he would consider amending the ban in favour of allowing both smoking and non smoking establishments, exactly the same as they have in Spain, where it works fines, and does not discriminate against a massive proportion of the electorate.
Unfortunately, DC will not give a definite answer on this either, and again, is likely to lose a huge proportion of the vote to UKIP, who unequivocally state their intentions on both issues.
Personally, I will continue to give my support to the Conservative Party, even though I do not agree with their stance on either of these issues. My view is that we can hopefully influence DC in the forthcoming months before the General Election, without having to resort to threats of voting for a two horse party.
- Peter Thurgood, London, UK, 06/10/2009 10:23
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It seems we need another dose of fascism in Europe to remind people just exactly what democracy is.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 06/10/2009 10:18
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What's difficult about letting the British people decide on what country they want to live in? Do they want to be self-governing, or do they want more and more of their lives dominated by decisions made on the continent under a federal system? The people in any territory should be able to decide on how they are governed.
- Phil Jones, London UK, 06/10/2009 10:12
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My vote is already going to UKIP, Cameron has demonstrated time and again that he's not fit for purpose, he has no strength of character and is trying to Blair mkII. A vote on Europe is simply part of a democratic purpose which was promised by Labour as part of their last election mandate, but again, they lied and rode roughshod over the electorate, perhaps Cameron needs to get a backbone and show that he's better than Labour as at the moment I can only perceive him as a jellyfish.
- Bob, Cheam, 06/10/2009 10:07
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We could always have a referendum to amend our participation in the EU with an option on the form to pull out.
Now that would not be difficult, would it ??
- James, City of London, 06/10/2009 09:10
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Why the dithering? The UK's ratification of the Treaty as been carried out notwithstanding a referendum pledge by the governing party, and contrary to the apparent wishes of the UK electorate. Although legal, the British ratification is therefore of questionable moral legitimacy.
An unequivocal statement by the party likely to form the next government that a referendum will be held whatever the circumstances, would put Brussels in the position of bringing the Treaty into force in defiance of a member state's democratic process.
Should the Tories be returned to power, they would have a clear mandate to listen to the British electorate rather than the Brussels mafia.
It's time to put an end to this pretence that the European emperor wears democratic clothing. If Cameron lacks the courage to do so, my vote goes to UKIP.
- John C, Leatherhead, UK, 06/10/2009 08:35
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