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It would be fair that the family of this man just does the same to them and kick them both to death

- Retaliator, Santander, Cantabria, 15/10/2009 14:57
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completely clear who is driving the vehicle. Yet, in the centre of the capital city this is the best photo they can produce. So what all these cameras for? Paul is right, the public should not intervene as they often end up being the victim themselves. In the centre of Glasgow at 10pm one night in 1984 as I was parking my car I noticed a noisy commotion at the top of the street. I saw a bunch of yobs and hoped they would not move down the street towards me. As I sat there wondering whether to park elsewhere a man in a suit appeared spread-eagled on my bonnet. He was covered in blood and I could see but not hear him mouthing the words 'help me, help me'. I got out of the car stood up to my full height of 5'10" and they melted away/...continued further on

/...continued
I was immensely relieved that I was not going to have to do battle with them but I was prepared to protect as best I could, their victim....I realised I must have witnessed a mugging.
The man was visiting Glasgow from Wales, was staying in a city centre hotel and was giving a lecture in Glasgow the next day. I put him in my car, blood everywhere, and drove him to the central Glasgow police station which was just around the corner. He had been mugged and severely beaten by three or four thugs. His wallet containing cash and cards was taken. For what it is worth the government of the time was Conservative.

- Dee, Whitby, England, 15/10/2009 12:29
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From Paul in London, who is absolutely right
"True story. A friend of mine intervened to prevent a thug slapping his girlfriend about whie having a blazing row at a train station. He punched the guy once. He fell and hit his head on the ground cracking his skull. The girl then turned on him and called him all the names under the sun and screaming for the police. Funnily enough, no working CCTV. Result- two years in jail and no job when he comes out Think about that before wading in to help"

We have a police force supposedly have CCTV cameras, it is the centre of London, the capital. A huge amount of resources are used against people who drive vehicles including very high-definition cameras to make completely clear who is driving the vehicle. Yet, in the centre of the capital city this is the best photo they can produce. So what all these cameras for? Paul is right, the public should not intervene as they often end up being the victim themselves. In the centre of Glasgow at 10pm one night in 1984 as I was parking my car I noticed a noisy commotion at the top of the street. I saw a bunch of yobs and hoped they would not move down the street towards me. As I sat there wondering whether to park elsewhere a man in a suit appeared spread-eagled on my bonnet. He was covered in blood and I could see but not hear him mouthing the words 'help me, help me'. I got out of the car stood up to my full height of 5'10" and they melted away/...continued further on

- Dee, Whitby, England, 15/10/2009 12:21
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Kris,

you said "sadly anyone who has been in that part of london at night would know it's hardly gay friendly."

Seems a tad contradictory, when you consider that part of London contains a large concentration of gay establishments!

- Mark, South-East London, 15/10/2009 09:14
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When I was growing up, a smack or the threat of being told of or humiliated was deterant enough to make me understand, what was, and what is not acceptable behavior, I hated it at the time, but it made me the sensible lad I am today, ever since Blair brought in the " smacking ban " things have only got worse......and will continue to do so.

- James, england, 15/10/2009 08:29
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Alcohol. Alcohol. Alcohol.

- France, Canada, 15/10/2009 00:54
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I hope they catch these scum. Someone must have seen all this happening - as usual no one intervened - poor man - didn't deserve this. I hope when they are caught they are given very long sentences but expect with the way Britain is at the moment they will get off probably with a slapped wrist. I am glad I left.

- Bj, Sydney Australia, 14/10/2009 22:37
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May i humbly suggest that all the cameras that give 100% clarity when it comes to getting a motorists numberplate for a minor infringement be realigned onto the pavements, because if that is the best pictures these cctv cameras can do then methinks they are not fit for purpose

- Edward Woodward, London, 14/10/2009 21:25
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Why blame the Labour party? I was born in England in 1949. There have always been some worthless thugs there, no matter which party is in power.

- Ian, New Orleans, LA, USA, 14/10/2009 21:23
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very upsetting news.
sadly anyone who has been in that part of london at night would know it's hardly gay friendly.

- Kris, London, 14/10/2009 20:35
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Well said Alex, this type of prejudice and violent homo-phobic behaviour shouldn't exist in modern Britain, that it does is a damning indictment of the education system and the criminal justice system. Our politicians are pathetic, parasites with little vision and limited intellectual capacity. Britain is rotten to the core, the lack of a properly functioning education system and a criminal justice system to deliver safety for law abiding people are the manifestations of the failure of Parliament.

- William Ear, Waltham Cross, 14/10/2009 18:53
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I don't think its a matter of education. I think most people know its illegal to kick someone's head in, gay or straight.

The problem here with this incident, which is in many ways not isolated, is the complete confidence that these thugs seemed to have that they would not be caught redhanded by the police, even in a public space like Trafalgar Squre.

- Andrew, Hampton Hill, 14/10/2009 18:12
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Hey Anon PC, why don't you give us your real identity so we can sack you for being a rightwing deluded nutter.
The Met is a underachieving, overpaid, useless, rascist bunch of thugs. With the exception of a few decent coppers, mainly the older boys. Get a life.

- Kerry, Purley, 14/10/2009 18:03
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When did the Met or the Council last bother to check the image quality of the cctv camera's? Not often enough if the photos shown on here are anything to go by.

- Patrick, London, 14/10/2009 17:54
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As a gay man myself I find the level of ignorance in this thread depressingly high. Homophobic attacks - like racist attacks - are not just random events and cannot be equated with other types of streetcrime. We are right to treat them extremely seriously as they are indicative of a highly toxic prejudice which needs to be - and can be - tackled. Prejudice is not natural, it is LEARNED. Somebody's parents taught these hate-criminals to think what they think. Unfortunately, the introduction of the Religious Discrimination Act - which enshrines homophobia in law (as long as it's part of your religious beliefs) will make things worse, not better. Many communities teach their kids that being gay is wrong, sick or evil, often denying their own family members and believing that there is no such thing among their religious/racial group (which is provably untrue). While hatred can hide behind legal protection of this kind, nothing will fundamentally change. Oh, and having grown up during the last Tory administration, anyone who believes that a change of government will 'mend Broken Britain' is kidding themselves. Kids carried knives at my school, attacked teachers and racism, homophobia and bullying were just as bad as they are today, and when I came to London 20 years ago, the streets felt no safer than they do now (and the West End far less safe!)

- Mark, London, UK, 14/10/2009 17:32
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This is a truely despicable crime and my condolances to Ian Baynham's family and friends.
How sad also that the 'Broken Britain' campagners are so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Shame on them.

- Adrian, Dorking, 14/10/2009 17:21
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Quote: Ade, London. You must be mad!! “The right to bear arms!?!” what a wonderful idea, works really well in the USA..Not the problem with being able to carry defensive weapons is that they soon become offensive...check out the gun related murder statistics in most major USA cities for yourself

You forget one thing Ade, the crooks have weapons, the police have weapons, the general public do not have weapons?

If we equal it all up; the unarmed public will be able to defend themselves against the armed crooks and armed thugs, and not have to depend on the armed police to defend them, as the armed police always arrive after the event, never before the event etc.

I did also state that I was not saying anything here? it was just an example of equality in self defence etc.

In our democracy; and from the Mother of All Parliaments; why have we still got no Bill of Rights?

- Mickinlondon, london, 14/10/2009 17:10
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Friday night? One of the busiest parts of London, a stones throw from Charing Cross Police Station? 10:45pm? So where were the high visibility police then? I used to be in the West End every evening, but now do not venture there...... because of self obsessed idiots that believe that to torment, torture and kill another human being is acceptable!!!

- Mark, London, UK, 14/10/2009 16:54
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Andrew, Ely - intervening to help someone you see being attacked is not a "vigilante reaction".

- Kevin T, Beckenham, Kent, 14/10/2009 16:35
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Surely many young people know Elton John is gay, the Little Britain show has gays, John Bannerman, Paul O'Grady etc etc all give huge entertainment to the masses. A little education in schools with a few examples might just penetrate their thinking. Drugs and drink fuel these young people's actions. For God's sake teachers, talk about life as it is today. Not always 1066.Wendy
talk about life not

- Wendy Kurrels, LLandovery. Wales, 14/10/2009 15:47
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It saddens me to see that certain teenagers are growing up without any respect for others and still being fed hatred, and stereotypes in this day and age. For this type of crime to be committed in a very public place in London is sickening and I find it hard to believe the images are not any clearer on CCTV. With the lack of public protection and ridiculous laws in place it is no wonder people are fighting back or onlookers are becoming involved.

- Yvonne M, Dumfries, Scotland, 14/10/2009 15:30
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I hope someone recognises these females and gives the info to the police. Crimes must be stopped and people must feel that they're safe to intervene and help. Very sad.

- Jb Sussex, hove sussex uk, 14/10/2009 15:25
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Another couple of drunken English slappers, dressed like whores, made up like tarts, from the feral uneducated white underclass. No doubt taught to hate and to hit by their equally feral, uneducated, and pregant-at-13, on-state-benefits-since-16 mother. Generations of English boys and girls permanently on the drink, on the dole and on the prowl, contributing nothing to society, a drain on all of our resources, economic and otherwise, giving back to the rest of us nothing but fear, violence and hatred.

- Alex, London

VERY VERY eloquently summed up Alex - a damning indictment of Nu-Labour's "Broken Britain".
Couldn't agree more.
What a shame this lousy,rotten,stinking sham of a banana-republic government has failed us so badly.
David Cameron you will have ALOT of damage to start repairing in May 2010.

- Anon Pc, London, UK, 14/10/2009 15:09
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around 4.30am on the 4th july 2009, i.e. the morning of gaypride 2009, a group of feral male youths, led by a foul jumped up mummy's boy, started a homophobic verbal attack on me as i woz gettin off the
nite bus. no-one on the bus, which was full, intervened. they got off the bus and ran over to me and physically attacked me, about 6 or 7 of them. i woz on my own street so i did a runner to my house. they chased after me, right up to the front door of my house and forced their way into the hallroom of my house.
i'd opened the door to my flat and woz now in the hallway of my own flat. they attacked me with my neighbour's pram thru the doorway. the noise that they were making, hurling hate and abuse woke all the neighbours in the rest of the flats in the house, but no-one intervened. i realised i had to defend my self so started punching back but only the mouthy leader of the pack, who the group deferred too. this shocked them and by continueing to fight back i drove them out of the hallway.
the police came round the next day and then nothing. no cctv as isligton council or whoever couldn't fund it???
my greatest shock woz the total lack of even interest from the people on the bus who witnessed it...everyone just drifting off into their little ipod cacoon world, breathing a huge sigh of relief to themselves that the viscious bunch of vermin sat behind isn't targeting them for attack...

- Simon Lister, london united kingdom, 14/10/2009 14:48
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An innocent man beaten death in Trafalgar Square in the centre of London. What a sick, callous and brutal society we have become.

- Danny, London, 14/10/2009 14:40
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"Another couple of drunken English slappers, dressed like whores, made up like tarts, from the feral uneducated white underclass. No doubt taught to hate and to hit by their equally feral, uneducated, and pregant-at-13, on-state-benefits-since-16 mother. Generations of English boys and girls permanently on the drink, on the dole and on the prowl, contributing nothing to society, a drain on all of our resources, economic and otherwise, giving back to the rest of us nothing but fear, violence and hatred." - Alex, London

Welcome to Brown's Britain, Alex!

- Disco Biscuit, london, 14/10/2009 14:37
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First point : So we've got all these CCTV cameras over the country and when they might actually do something worth while this is the best image they can produce!! whats the point?? I doubt even there own mothers could identify them.....not that they would want to but thats a separate point. Secondly M Grelton...where did you move too? Munchkin land? or somewhere else where life is perfect? England is a great country...sure this is a hideous story but you know what...there is actually so many more good stories, so many positives which make living in England a complete joy.... it just doesn't make good news. As people like you can't be so dramatic over it!

- Michelle, London, 14/10/2009 14:32
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Yes Caitlin the truth can sometimes hurt - think alot of these comments are not saying everything in the Uk is wrong, but simplifying things down to the bare bones the key issues for most Brits are that key issues have stayed the same or in most cases got worse - its just a fact - Labour have got to go - not saying Tories will get it all right but surely they have to have a go otherwise what is the alternative Clegg, BNP, Tony Blair!

- Melly, Cartagena, Colombia, 14/10/2009 14:31
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I hope they find them and lock them up and throw away the key, THEY ARE TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER MAKES ME SICK THAT WE STILL LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT HOMOSEXUALS ARE STILL NOT EQUAL AND FROWNED UPON AND SAD THAT NO ONE STOPPED TO HELP !!!!

- Robert, denham, 14/10/2009 14:30
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It is a defence to use reasonable force to resist an attacker. It is a defence to use reasonable force to prevent a third party from being assaulted or worse.

The trouble is that unless you are "Have-a-Go" Jack Straw, the likelihood is that (a) you will be hurt or (b) prosecuted or (c) both; the CPS is too ready to prosecute the soft-target - the intervener with good intentions.

We are all in this together [to quote a recent mantra]but in this case it has to start from the top, as it did in New York, with clear guidelines and the enforcement of them. Our Police do not seem to like Zero Tolerance. Well, hopefully,the next government will introduce it. The Courts should also be given stiffer tariffs for crimes of violence. There is too much of the Pontius Pilate about MPs and crime. They pay it too much lip service, primarily because those who count do not come into contact with the violence on our streets that the ordinary citizen has to put up with.

Mick, carrying a weapon is a recipe for disaster. Every thug would be given a ready-made defence for carrying an offensive weapon. It is the need to eradicate knives, guns and any other weapon that is most pressing. Much as I am for the freedom of the individual, until the streets are broadly-speaking free of violent crime, the Police must adopt a far more robust stop and search regime, whatever race, colour or creed. How else can the carrying of concealed weapons be ameliorated if not eradicated?

- Captain Black Of The Mysterons, London, England, 14/10/2009 14:24
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The Police cannot be everywhere, thats reality yet the law still hinders you from defending yourself. With immediate effect non-lethal defence systems like Mace and various pepper sprays should be legalised. The real danger you face if you intervene in these circumstances is that you get stabbed. These feral thugs often carry knives and are willing to use them.

- James Macleod Ritchie, Oyster Bay Cove, 14/10/2009 14:16
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ian was such a nice man...hope you pieces of scum rott in prison whenyour caught! i dont know who you think you are! bunch of animals!

- Lucy Ibbs, London, 14/10/2009 14:04
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There does seem to be revival in all types of prejudice at the moment - battles we thought had been won are now having to be fought again. Didn't we all think this kind of thuggery had been left behind in the 1980s? I was at a party last weekend where a group of chavs were asked to leave for being extremely homophobic. And most of them were girls.

- Tony Mcmahon, London, UK, 14/10/2009 14:02
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These slappers should be locked up for good and their parents should be assed by the authorities to see if they should be allowed to even have children, no doubt they are on the dole and claim countless benefits!!!!
CCTV is only good for catching motorists

- Simon, London, 14/10/2009 13:33
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Alex: couldn't have put it better myself. Dave: Trouble is Dave, if people two generations ago had intervened instead of pretending to the read their papers on the trains (when I was the only person who stood up to 3 yobs - I'm female in my 50s), we wouldn't have the problems we have now. What would happen if a carriage full of people started ganging up on 3 troublesome yobs? Yep, right guess, the yobs would realise they can't take on all those people and swiftly leave at the next station. They'd then think twice before causing trouble in the first place. Job done. Nowadays people won't intervene a) because the law will make them out to be the perpetrator and b)too many carry knives because they are too gutless to go around without one, so joe public worry, and rightly so, about being killed or maimed.

- Sue, Orpington, Kent, 14/10/2009 13:31
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True Story

Many years ago when I was about 13 and my brother 10, we were stopped by about five older youths on Putney High Street 5pm on a Friday evening and held by the throats against a window to had over our money. Despite the high street being packed with shoppers and people in cars in a traffic jam having a good old look no one bothered to help (a sad reflection of what our nation has become). Since this happened I have always stepped in or called the police if I see someone in distress. Come on people have some back bone even if its means reporting a crime or helping the victim after.

- David, London, 14/10/2009 13:24
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This is dreadful. My partner and I were subject of homophobic abuse at the weekend. It was on a train and came from a single woman who was in her early 30s and quite drunk. She was very abusive and threatened to punch us. It was really ugly and, in a way, it seemed all the more shocking from a young, single woman. When we arrived at Liverpool Street Station, I was quite impressed by the way British Transport Police handled the incident.

- Andrew, London, 14/10/2009 13:22
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What a great country! No wonder it has been voted the worst country in Europe. I am glad I have left.

- M Grelton, London

so i assume thats London, ontario you are commenting from.

- Kh, London UK, 14/10/2009 13:22
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We don't need vigilante reactions to crimes like these ....as some posters seem to be suggesting. What you need is a Police FORCE like in days of old. Not a Police service as we have now.
It seems sadly ironic that the same Poltically Correct attitudes and policies that promote Gay equality are responsible for the lack of law and Order on the streets.

- Andrew, Ely UK, 14/10/2009 13:11
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So David in London has been threatened thrre times in the past year.
I am not Gay nor a member of an Ethnic Group but I was regularly threatened,racially abused and robbed twice in daylight.Everyone is potentially a victim in London.The city is a nasty place where law and order broke down long ago.My answer,I left.Please let's stop this obsession with homophobic attacks anybody can fall prey to violence.Having said that my feelings go out to Ian's family and friends.

- Garibaldi, suffolk uk, 14/10/2009 13:07
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As a gay man myself i cannot voice how shocked i am at this!! These sick people need to be locked up, but im sure Englands great justice system will give them 10 years and then release them on good behaviour after 5! Whats the point????

I regulary go out in Londons west end, and after reading this makes you think twice about walking very far on your own after a few drinks! But why should we change our lives and give into this type of abuse, we should work together to stop this!

I personally have never come across homophobic abuse, but have stepped in a few times to help friends who have been caught up in a fight. I personally hate fighting and not one to start them, however i will protect myself as much as possible if i feel my life is threatened?

A lot of people say its wrong to hit a woman. I to say that, but it does make you think.......If you were walking past this attack that night, would hitting a woman to stop this man being murdered be justified?

- Rob, Essex, 14/10/2009 13:07
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I wonder how many people who witnessed this attack even bothered to try and call the police. Not my problem mate. Where has the bulldog spirit gone.

- Dc, London, 14/10/2009 13:03
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Mickinlondon, London

You must be mad!! “The right to bear arms!?!” what a wonderful idea, works really well in the USA..Not the problem with being able to carry defensive weapons is that they soon become offensive...check out the gun related murder statistics in most major USA cities for yourself

- Ade, London, 14/10/2009 12:59
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David, London. Yes gays do have problems, and so do people with ginger hair, even fat people have similar problems, even invalids have insults and snide remarks thrown at them, even the deaf and dumb suffer in like manner etc.

But these are not new phenomena's, or even new modern day thinking or education etc; these are all old prejudices, that have always been there, and probably always will be there, as each new generation replaces the old generations etc, you will find that history always repeats itself where human behaviour is concerned etc.

I have survived knife attacks, and bottle attacks, and of course had more than my fair share of fights in the street over my years etc, and I am not gay at all.

You need to be what is called Street-Wise; and follow your instincts where danger is concerned, and like a boy scout, be prepared for anything etc.

I point out also; gays have been known to attack and even kill other gays; so violence against gays is not only committed by heterosexuals etc.

In my opinion, Dave, Homosexuals were treated far worse in the past than they are today, in the past no homosexual could ever complain to anyone, not even the police etc.

So as I said; lets get this into a true and real prospective; crime is crime, violence is violence, homosexual or heterosexual, the pain and the insults are equal in my opinion.

Take care Dave, and stay safe, defend yourself......Mick.

- Mickinlondon, london, 14/10/2009 12:59
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If you attack someone,the person you attack,or, anyone who comes to their assistance, should not be liable in law, irrespective of the damage they inflict on you! The parallel in law to the motorist who is hit by another vehicle from behind, is automatically not guilty!

- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 14/10/2009 12:45
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True story. A friend of mine intervened to prevent a thug slapping his girlfriend about whie having a blazing row at a train station. He punched the guy once. He fell and hit his head on the ground cracking his skull. The girl then turned on him and called him all the names under the sun and screaming for the police. Funnily enough, no working CCTV. Result- two years in jail and no job when he comes out Think about that before wading in to help.

- Paul, London, 14/10/2009 12:31
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Mick in London, everyone may be a possible victim of street crime but some people are more targetted and more vulnerable than others. Rates of homophobic verbal and physical assault are ridiculously high. I am confident and reasonably fit gay man and I have been threatened on three occasions in the last couple of years, one of them in a gay area by youths who were known by the police to come there specifically to harass gay men. How many times have you had a bottle thrown at your head in public when walking along a busy and well lit stretch of the Southbank? How often do you read in the media respected church officials and media commentators given a platform and permission to call you evil, naff, stupid or a threat to the world or to decency or everything else. How often do you watch comedy programmes aimed at kids trotting out tired stereotypes ridiculing you and your friends? These things give permission for gay and lesbian people to be seen as less than human or not as good and give permission for people to harass, denigrate and attack us. I am so sorry for Ian Baynham and his friend. I hope they catch those immediately responsible and that the others responsible for feeding the hatred against gay and lesbian people think about their actions and words.

- David, London, 14/10/2009 12:30
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Quote: Cicca, London. We need to change the law so that one has a legal duty to intervene - this may also serve as a deterrent as those who would commit an offence would know that those around are under a legal duty to assist the victim.

You cannot force by law, those not equipped with courage or any fighting ability to intervene in a crime being committed on the street or anywhere else etc; if you do, they will also become victims.

The responsibility for defending people from crime by laws, are the responsibility of the Government, the Police, and the Law itself etc.

If any law needs changing; it is the right by law to defend yourself, with all means possible, even arming yourself with a defensive weapon.

An old lady for instance; can defend herself with a gun, against the strongest male attacker; a gun equals up her weak defensive ability, to her attackers greater strength and youth etc.

I am not saying anything here; other than we should have the right under the law to defend ourselves, with all means possible, it is the right of all people, to survive etc.

We have no bill of rights in the UK, nor the right to bare arms, time this was changed for the good of our-self survival, as the State cannot protect us at all, they cannot even protect themselves without armed police with machine guns, and drenched in full body armour etc.

- Mickinlondon, london, 14/10/2009 11:54
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Doubtless those teenage girls who assaulted that innocent man were from schools where gay hating and baiting go unchecked.

- Derek, London, 14/10/2009 11:50
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If I am unlucky enough to get a speeding fine you can see every filling in my head, law enforcement cctv makes no cash and consequently the pictures produced are all but useless!

- Les, London, 14/10/2009 11:48
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Another couple of drunken English slappers, dressed like whores, made up like tarts, from the feral uneducated white underclass. No doubt taught to hate and to hit by their equally feral, uneducated, and pregant-at-13, on-state-benefits-since-16 mother. Generations of English boys and girls permanently on the drink, on the dole and on the prowl, contributing nothing to society, a drain on all of our resources, economic and otherwise, giving back to the rest of us nothing but fear, violence and hatred.

- Alex, London, 14/10/2009 11:37
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Disgusting crime, I have intevened in the past and would do so again. What sort of society do we want to live in, take the risk and help.

- Dave, London, 14/10/2009 11:34
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Very very sad. All these comment sections are full of people rearing to put this country down.Maybe those two girls have grown up being told about "Broken Britain" Must rush, have to tell my teen daughter how theres nothing good about this country we live in.I'm sure that will help install confidence and respect for others in her.

- Caitlin, London, 14/10/2009 11:34
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While the technology is so advanced ... why the goverment cant fix the better quality resolution capture of CCTV to get good image? Will that be more expensive than the MP'S EXPENSES?

- Nang, LONDON, 14/10/2009 11:33
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We need to change the law so that one has a legal duty to intervene - this may also serve as a deterrent as those who would commit an offence would know that those around are under a legal duty to assist the victim.

- Cicca, London, 14/10/2009 11:24
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I did leave Uk to a country that used to be one of the most violent in the world - with strong government things can change for the better (ie -here with Uribe), but weak governments can make things far worse (ie - Brown). Its very simple, after 12 years of Labour the country has got worse (public transport, safety, education, NHS, costs of living etc). My condolences go out to the family and friends of Mr Baynham.

- Melly, Cartagena, Colombia, 14/10/2009 11:20
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Lets get street crime into prospective here, an old lady or an old man is in more danger of an attack in the street than a homosexual is, likewise a young man or a young lady, is also more in danger of a street attack than a homosexual is etc.

In truth, and in reality, anyone is a possible street crime victim, in any City etc.

Drink and drugs, and the need for money, or just sheer violence on any easy target, are the real causes and reasons for street attacks etc.

How many old people have you seen pictures of in the media, battered by muggers for dope money etc, so as I said, get all this into prospective, homosexuals are just another group victims that get attacked, and not the only group that gets attacked.

I believe we all should have the right to defend ourselves with any means at hand, if we are attacked, and without the fear of being arrested for it, or even criticized by the law of using more force than was necessary, in the eyes of the law and police-officers, after all the victims are being attacked, not the law or the police themselves etc.

Time after time we see that the law, and the police themselves cannot defend us; so we have to defend ourselves, or get battered, and sometimes murdered, if we do not.

Once again; lets get this into prospective; everyone is a possible victim of street crime, sooner or later?

And that is a fact.

- Mickinlondon, london, 14/10/2009 11:19
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I have to say as a gay man my self I would be worried about being in the west end . How ever gay men as a collective can fight this but many are to sissy to do any thing had I been in London on that night I and seen what was going on I would have intervened.

I would also like to ask don’t the cctv have zoom or is that another expense.no point in cctv

- Joe, herts, 14/10/2009 11:08
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England is not the worst country in Europe ( sorry , I have travelled all over the world and I could only live here)
Just remember that stuff like this happens anywhere & everywhere it is just our press delights in reporting bad news and rarely good news. Murder happens!! FACT

- Essie, London, 14/10/2009 11:07
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Well Said M Grelton, but who voted England the worst country in Europe? I'd love to know which set of people had lived and worked in all the countries of Europe so that they could make an informed choice. Also, M, you seem to have done a bad job of leaving if you're in London.

- Alex C, London, 14/10/2009 10:54
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and noone helped them?????? society of chickens

- Jakethesnake, haringey, 14/10/2009 10:50
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In the middle of London near Trafalgar Square that's the best picture the police can come up with? I honestly don't believe they cant find a better image than that....

- Paul B, London, 14/10/2009 10:34
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Peter,

Although I am quite shocked that nobody stepped in, but it does come with a price as I have found to my cost twice; once bottled by the female victim and the second time arrested for assault.

Third time lucky or unlucky?

- Mark, South-East London, 14/10/2009 10:32
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The scum who did this need to be locked up for life. Thankfully these types of incidents are rare compared to foreign countries.

- Joey Schultz, London, 14/10/2009 10:30
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Peter, would you help and probably be arrested for preventing feral youths going about their mindless violence. Thank New Labour, Tough on the civic minded, tough on the believers in community.

- Nick, LONDON, 14/10/2009 10:14
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homophobic attacks and assaults in London are up 35% in London this year, the same is true in Manchester and last weekend a march was held in ROME by 50000 people because of the increase in homophobic attacks and assaults in that city, the answer ? EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION .

- David Wainwright, Plymouth Devon, 14/10/2009 10:12
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Who is teaching are Children to hate!Crimes such as this are committed simply for reasons of hatred for a certain group.That hatred is learnt,those who preach intolerance must surely be as guilty as those who committed this dreadful murder,think on religious leaders,think on homophobic politicians etc etc.

- Kev, London-UK, 14/10/2009 10:06
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As a gay man who has never had any fear of walking around London thinking that Homophobic attacks were a thing of the past.this is a real shock to me.my thoughts are for IANS FAMILY AND FRIENDS.I hope to God that the mindless thugs that murdered Ian are caught quickly and are locked away for a very long time

- Mick, london, 14/10/2009 09:24
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Millions and millions of pounds, thousands of cameras, 21st century technology and that's the best image you've got. What's the point? I could draw a more accurate and detailed representation using a stick in wet sand.

- Feckless Mancunian, Warsaw, Poland, 14/10/2009 09:21
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This is disgusting - children often learn their attitudes from parents - think before criticizing/condemning any minority group otherwise innocents die! We are supposed to be a civilized society - this is a sad reflection of npt so great britain today

- David, soton, 14/10/2009 09:16
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great to see that the millions spent on cctv produce such high quality images, with no blurring....NOT!!! What are they using - box brownies?

- Gary, wycombe, 14/10/2009 09:09
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Friday night, 10:45pm. Lots of people in Trafalgar Square. Who helped? Nobody, as usual? Who stepped forward and helped? Another victory for sick Britain's yob culture?

- Peter, London, 14/10/2009 08:28
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What a great country! No wonder it has been voted the worst country in Europe. I am glad I have left.

- M Grelton, London, 14/10/2009 08:21
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