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Five Labour MPs are threatening Gordon Brown with hugely damaging by-elections if they are ordered to pay back their expenses.
In a move that puts real pressure on the Prime Minister, the Standard has learned that the refuseniks are determined to quit rather than repay tens of thousands of pounds claimed for cleaning, gardening and mortgages.
The rebels have told chief whip Nick Brown that they will act unless the Government reconsiders plans to force MPs to comply with retrospective caps on spending imposed by expenses adviser Sir Thomas Legg, a senior Commons source claimed.
All of the veteran MPs involved are set to stand down at the next election and feel able to defy the authority of the whips. One senior Commons figure said that the threat of five by-elections was "Gordon's winter nightmare".
Labour lost its previously safe seat of Norwich North to the Tories in a by-election this summer after Left-winger Ian Gibson resigned in protest at his treatment over his expenses.
In another blow to Mr Brown, some Labour MPs angry over expenses are plotting to seize the chairmanship of the Parliamentary Labour Party. Backbencher Barry Sheerman today said he is considering standing for the role.
Senior Tory backbenchers are also furious with Sir Thomas's decision to impose a £2,000 annual limit on cleaning and £1,000 cap on gardening.
Five Tory MPs have said they will not pay up, although none of them will quit to cause by-elections. The threats from Labour backbenchers could explain why Commons Leader Harriet Harman last week hit out at the "arbitrary" nature of Sir Thomas's proposals and said MPs should only be judged by the rules as they applied at the time.
Ms Harman was today due to set out her position to Parliament. But senior Commons officials say she has repeatedly changed it, leaving the Government's stance in confusion.
Sir Thomas's recommendations have yet to be endorsed and MPs are unclear how any sanctions would work.
Labour veteran Frank Field, who is not among the five threatening by-elections, said that he was furious at the "arbitrary and wrong" rulings by Sir Thomas.
Reader views (53)
I feel that I am picking up a few negative vibes here - perhaps someone more astute than myself (someone well known for recently saving the world from bullies in the playground taking our lunch money perhaps), might be able to discern a trend in public sentiment and, gently of course, slap a few wrists? Naughtiness cannot go unrecognised after all, else the kiddies might not learn the difference between right and wrong - and remember the watchwords from our betters on high, "tough on crime" & "education, education, education".
- Rogan, Irving
Steve, London, England
Indeed these howls about "retrospective caps" are nothing more than a red herring.
The guiding priciples are clearly set out in the Green Book". As well as stating that "...any expenditure claimed from the allowances has been wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred for the purpose of performing your Parliamentary duties." There are also passages stating, "Claims should be above reproach and must reflect actual usage of the resources being claimed." and, "Members must ensure that claims do not give rise to, or give the appearance of giving rise to, an improper personal financial benefit to themselves or anyone else".
Which part didn't they understand?
- John C, Leatherhead, UK
The truth is that:
"The bulk of Government ministers are
as well suited for flying as for thinking"
(adapted from Jonathan Swift.)
- Macdangler, Wimbledon SW19
They will get their snouts kicked out of the trough come the election anyway.
My advice to GB is to try to salvage some credibility by sacking them NOW and chance a by-election.
- Mrs, London UK
Retrospective legislation is not new to Chancellor Gordoon Broon,especially if extra tax may be raised from the taxpayer. Now that it may well apply to MPs', concern is suddenly raised! Oh dear, what a pity. Look in the mirror each morning and tell us that the RULES which may have applied, were MORALLY correct. You know that the free lunch days are over.
- Macdangler, Wimbledon SW19
Us ordinary people cannot claim expenses for having our homes cleaned or gardens tended. We cannot claim £200 for food. If we work away from home we can claim back subsistance allowance from our employers which equates to a sandwich.If it happened every day the claim would not total the amounts of 'food' money that they claim for.
The review has not gone far enough. The mortgage interest scams have largely been ignored, the 'flipping' has been ignored. Instead of employing this unknown person to review their expenses I would have thought the ideal people would be Inland Revenue to monitor the whole lot of them.
Start on the characters in the Lords next.
This review has not gone far enough.
- Ann, Chelmsford, UK.
Of course these 5 cowards were not standing at the next election anyway so would not have to face the public to try and justify themselves.
Do us all a favour and go now!
- Chris, London
Brown has the chance to show his moral compass.Having tolerated a Cabinet of Thieves it is time for thes MPs to be named,expelled from their parties & if they dare to show their faces in a bye election Brown Clegg & Cameron should canvass against theAs to Frank Fields nonsenical speed limits comparison.The limits do not require you to drive up to the limit in icy conditions.The Green Book did not require MPs to claim to the limit on every occasion."wholly,necessarily and solely" are all in the dictionary and the public can understand these words even if illiterate MPs could not.
- P Doff, audierne france
It really wasn't 'retrospective' - we have to nail that lie. Legge applied the rules, all of them, as they were and as they should have been applied. Happens every day when judges do 'appeals'. MPs of all flavours must get used to the rules that apply to the rest of us.
- Steve, London, England
The majority would like them all to quit and bypass bottler Brown.
- Tony Gee, London
MPs are trying to block the Metropolitian Police investigation into the possible criminal abuse of Commons expenses by claiming the probe into expenses may breach “parliamentary privilege”, (the ancient right that protects proceedings inside Parliament, which notably allows freedom of speech in the Commons chamber).With Luciferian arrogance they are trying to claim that any MP committing fraud is immune from prosecution due to 'parliamentary privilege'. LOL.
- Frank, Bristol UK
no need for blackmail bunch of loosers.
- Fodil, london,uk
Bring the police in now, were or what is the queen doing about all this scandal? If she does not intervene then Im afraid it will affect her standing. Come on MPs bring it on then we can get rid of the Labour/Tories scum bag leaders who promised they would clean their party and dismiss if caught with their fingers in the till.
- Lee, middlesex
so be it, they were history anyway and will ever be tainted with a faint whiff of something untoward.
out there in the jungle there parliamentry track record will haunt them and as they wake to reality may well find that how ever grand and sanctimonious they believe their jesture to have been, like carrots blear they will
long regret it and i would think have many an idle hour to do so.
- M.O'Brien, london.uk
Quit or not Quit; they should still face a court of law.
But as yet; none have?
- Mickinlondon, london
If they don't pay up halve their pensions.
- Frank, Bournemouth, England
Unfortunately they haven’t the ‘guts’ to carry out their threat and everyone knows it.
However, what it tells the rest of us is that unless we get rid of this crowd that call themselves the Political Class/Elite we can never have democracy or accountability in government.
- Ian, Reading, England
I hope there are MP's reading these comments: "Got the message yet!?". This is OUR money you're stealing. I know not all you MP's are thieves, but you other ones should be sacked and punished like the lying criminals you are. And give us our money back before you go! Now clear off!
- Ian - Another Taxpayer, Manchester, UK
If they don't want to pay it back that means they want to steal it from us then. Deduct it from any parliamentave pay-offs or pensions they might get then. And if they go on the dole, deduct it from their dole money. If they hadn't have been so greedy in claiming so much in the first place they wouldn't have so much to pay back now. It's not a witch-hunt: it's the clearing out of morally corrupt public servants.
- Janet, London, UK
Bottler Brown missed a trick when he avoided calling the General Election he believed he "would win". But it's now too late for New Labour's crew of halfwits, chancers and charlatans - the game is up, and it'll be good riddance to most of them come next summer.
- Ted, London
Every single one of them who has declared their intention to stand down at the next election should be forced to quit now.
They're no better than a bunch of thieves who will slink off with their loot rather than than do the honest thing and resign immediately. As things stand the country is now in limbo and will be until Brown points his moral compass in the direction of the Palace.
- George, Cambridge UK
I shouldn't imagine the refuseniks are quitting as a point of principle: must be that its worth more to quit than to stay on and earn the salary. As others have said, let them leave. The harm will only be to themselves.
- Peace Maker, Battersea
Had bottler Brown called an election (when he thought he would win) we'd have avoided the current problems. But it's now too late for New Labour's crew of halfwits, chancers and charlatans - the game is up and it'll be good riddance to most of them come next summer.
- Ted, London
To all those expense fiddling MPs, call an early by election that is exactly what we, the votors, have been calling for since the expenses racket was disclosed months ago. Good riddance to cheating MPs.
- Pete, Banstead, Surrey
Quit or not Quit; they should still face a court of law.
But as yet; none have?
- Mickinlondon, london
Advice to Gordon: let them resign. (Even better, kick them out).
If you lose to a protest vote in a by-election (as usually happens) it'll cost you nothing for now. At least come the general election, you'll have a new "clean" candidate fighting the seat, and you'll have been seen to have taken a stand against greed and corruption. So you should win or lose on the other national issues of the day.
If you let these sleaze-bags stay, you'll be hit with the constituency protest vote in the general election, and you'll garner a lot of bad publicity from those constituencies when it will hurt the most.
- Nigel, London
Excellent, go ahead and quit. That's what we all want anyway. And so what if the cap is retrospective? Isn't this what people have been asking the bankers to do? Pay back money they were legally given in bonuses because their performance didn't stack up? In fact, now I think of it maybe we should ask for back payment of all the wages MPs have made over the last 4 or 5 years because I am not sure their performance has merited any pay at all.
If you can show me any other job where its standard to have your cleaning and gardening paid because its a vital part of being able to do the job properly please let me know!
- Mikki, London
Better headline would have been - MPs force General Election! Thats the only way this mess is going to be sorted out. Gordon is making it up as he goes along. I don`t have much sympathy with the MPs over this; but Frank Field & Co do have a point. Gordon would have scored more brownie points with the electorate if he had tackled the real offenders who flipped houses etc and also sacked everyone in the Fees Office who let this happen in the first place. But then I suppose they have all been promoted. We never hear a thing about them.
- Brian G, Norfolk Gorleston
Typical Labour and Torie politicians.Bring on the election,a new order is needed in the UK.
- Dave, london
The rule for voters should be "Don't vote for ANY sitting MP, and that includes Cameron Clegg Brown et al." That way we will get a complete clear out and a new start. I'm sure 'Er Maj will find someone to be 'Er PM.
- Sandy, Ealing, London
It would be wonderful if there could be 600+ byelections right now -- the sooner the better!
- Phil Jones, London UK
They just do not get it and neither do some of the contibutors here, expenses are claimed "wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred… for the purposes of performing your Parliamentary duties". That's it. not gardening, not new kitchens just do your job and live on your salary. When you applied for the job you knew what the pay was.
- Aylyn, 03189 Orihuela Costa
Oh my, how the British public love a witch hunt! Why should MP's who have claimed legitimate expenses be expected to pay money back? Sure, those that fiddle their expenses should be exposed, but this is not the case. Frank Field is right. Imagine the public uproar if HMRC decided to retrospectively increase the basic level of tax - backdated for 5 years! Ooops! Hope I haven't exposed a Gordon Brown stealth tax which was in the small print of the 2005 budget!
- Peter Tye, Norwich, England
Its a shame some of these MP's dont get their kids off their lazy pampered backsides to help with the gardening.
- Steve, London
Great idea. Once they have quit we can have them put on trial without disrupting the proper work of Parliament
- Jf, London
Bye. Don't bother to keep in touch.
- John B, Biggleswade
Gordon said "MPs who abused the system should face jail". Well, Gordon, now you've been found trousering £12,000 by the inquiry why haven't you pitched up at your local police station to sign a confession?
- Thomas, London
One dares these MPs to stand down now. As far as I know it means they will not qualify for full pension.
As for the rules having been changed post facto, it is nonsense. The MPs had bullied and harassed and collectively used their status to make the Fee office virtually 'approve' anything. All expenses, under the rules, were to have been incurred 'solely .. in the course of performing their duties and not for any personal gains.' In my small company, if I had claimed, with no receipt the kind of expenses the MPs claimed, the Inland Revenue would have laughed at me. All Sir Thomas has done is to bring in some sense of normality to the way the rules were applied, not create new rules.
In any case, wasn't Harriet Harmon the one who told the RBS CEO that even if his pension was perfectly legal, they would not stand the scrutiy of public opinion. I dare any of the MPs including Harriet Harmon to put their expenses to public opinion test.
- Nat, New Malden
The gravy train has hit the buffers.
"Everybody off. Come along! Collect your P45's at the ticket barrier on your way out - and join the other 4,000,000 unemployed in the dole queue."
MP's are now spouting that they intend to claim "Parliamentary privilege" over the obscene expenses claims.
THE SOONER EVERY LAST ONE IN THE HOUSE OF CONMEN RESIGNS THE BETTER.
ONE LAW FOR JOE PUBLIC AND AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT LAW FOR MP's.
- Reuben Camara, Morecambe Compound, EUSSR
Bottle this one Gordo and you're DEFINITELY toast!
- Steve, Brentford
These "honourable" members of Parliament seem to have forgotten why they are there. They are there to represent OUR interests, NOT THEIR OWN. The majority would appear to be a bunch of self serving hypocrites who have forgotten who pays their wages. They MUST have a pay freeze & ONLY have pay rises that are an average of the national pay increases. After all there is ALWAYS a queue of people who want the job, so the pay seems to be of secondary interest.
Us ordinary mortals have to clean our own places at our own expense, so why shouldn’t these people. What makes them so special?
- Richard, Thame Oxfordshire
Who cares? These blood-sucking parasites will all be on the dole in six months anyway. And once they're kicked out of Parliament, they will be much easier to deal with using the criminal court and HMRC.
- Kate, London
The sooner they quit the better. Scum.
- Mick, London, England
Stick to your guns Gordon.
- Alexis Dogilewski, London England
Get rid of the thieving scum once and for all. Those who have misappropriated tax payers' money and refuse to return it must have it deducted from their salaries/pensions - or face imprisonment for fraud. When we have emptied the Westminster cesspit of all the scum then an investigation must be made into the expenses claimed by their equally odious colleagues in the Lords' cesspit.
- R.F.York, Yorks, UK
You do know a lot of these people were within their rights to pay more than £2000 for cleaning and £1000 for gardening before all this?
The new rate was applied in retrospect (£2000/£1000) so a lot of MPs are out of pocket when they shouldn't be.
- Dave Halshaw, London
It shows where their priorities lie - money not people/policies. Let them go now - its inevitable they'll be gone by the summer anyway..... scumbags
- David, soton
Astonishing that the MPs will ask the public to vote rather that pay back some money....yet have no compulsion to ask the public to vote on the Lisbon Treaty which will cost much more.
- Clifftop, london
This must be the answer. Let them quit, but ensure that they still repay the money they were not entitled to claim. The sooner we are rid of these leeches the better. What is required is fresh faces and a new electoral system which gives us democracy and not a Government which calls 27 - 30 per cent of the vote a majority.
- Neil645, Gloucestershire, England.
These scumbags have been caught with their fingers in the till. Don't bother waiting for them to resign. Get rid of them. Now their gravy train has been derailed they don't like it.
- Mel Craig, Bembridge. IoW. UK.
Perhaps Mr Fields driving example should start:
"Imagine that you were driving at 80 mph in an 30 mph zone, confident that you were not breaking the law- because you wrote the law that gives MPs (exclusively) the right to drive at what ever speed they want"...........
Are these not the same people that wagged their fingers at the banking industry for excessive greed???
- Daryl, london
Hopefully Harriet Harperson and all the other rebels are either not going to be selected as candidates or are going to lose their seats anyway; so who cares what they say or do.
Their snouts have now been wrenched out of the trough , despite all their squealing, and there is a strong warning for the next parliament that we, the people, now have a close eye on what they are up to.
Bring on the election and let's have a good clearout.
- Mark Myword, London
Bunch of whingers. Let them quit. The more the merrier.
- Asw, HK
