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The Met this afternoon halted the deployment of regular armed patrols in London gun crime hotspots.
The announcement came after the Evening Standard revealed the anger of residents' groups and Metropolitan Police Authority members.
Opponents said there had been no consultation and there were fears it could lead to the arming of all police.
Pilot patrols from the CO19 firearms unit have been sent to estates in Tottenham, Haringey and Brixton, senior officers in CO19 revealed last week. But neither Met Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson nor his deputy Tim Godwin were believed to have been informed of the details.
Sir Paul said today that there had been no intention to introduce “routine” armed foot patrols.
He said a handful of operations had taken place when armed officers had walked the streets as “back up” to neighbourhood policing teams. He added: “These were pre-planned operations with specific objectives and timescales and were by no means routine. When this apparent foot patrolling extension of existing tactics came to the notice of the Deputy Commissioner on Thursday he instructed this was not an option.”
Sir Paul said the tactic had been deployed “for the best of reasons”. He added: “However, I believe that unfortunately there has been a failure to appreciate that this could look like a significant change of policing style.
That is not the case and it is not going to happen.” The patrols would have been the first outside sites such as Parliament, royal homes and Heathrow.
MPA member Jenny Jones said putting more guns on the streets would have been intimidating for residents and could have provoked an “arms race” with the most violent criminals.
Sir Paul said he was determined to uphold the unarmed tradition of the Met. But he said: “Firearms officers will continue to be deployed in situations where firearms present a threat. If in the future it becomes necessary to extend uniformed armed deployments I will ensure full and robust consultation.”
Reader views (44)
Give the police guns? Yes, why not? The criminals, muggers. monks, and other undesirables have them, so should our police.
- Neil Harsh, wycombe england, 23/02/2010 04:29
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If a white man mugs a black woman, or a black man mugs a white woman what stops the pepper spray being used by the mugger?
- James Deal, stirling scotland, 14/12/2009 21:39
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Instead heavily arming of responders, people should respect their human right and established common law tradition of the right to armed self defence. In this despicable country, a women can't even carry a can of pepper-spray. Yet, people still wonder why criminals have free reign. It's because they don't follow weapons laws. You do.
- Georgehayes, Tyrannical Police State UK, 17/11/2009 07:36
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If a gang war is underway and retaliations expected then maybe a simple police van on the estate would be enough to diffuse it. It's not necessary and very scary for residence to see armed patrols on the estates. Normal police are reassuring but police with machine guns are scary. I live in Tottenham and I can't think an estate that would need armed Police patrolling and I think it would excite the younger kids to think they may need to carry a gun to live on the estate. It's all a confused story anyway, the Turkish gangs in Haringey are not roaming estates they are more organised and inconspicuous
Start tackling the whole culture issues now with how the youths are growing up with no goals and aims in life even though opportunities exist and maybe the next generations can be better
- Damian, Tottenham, London, 30/10/2009 14:05
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Politically-correct apologist lunacy-1
Common sense-0
Victory to the criminal, again!
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster, 28/10/2009 09:07
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read any gang and drug crime book from waterstones " crime " section would tell you all you need to know about infiltrating and bringing about the demise of these gangs, rather than having armed police sitting around waiting for things to kick off and routine patrols, why not get a team of undercover " dealers " to go on the inside, and open the networks like a can of worms ?
Problem you then have ( which will never change ) is more people openly ready to take that position when someone else dies.
bigger picture me thinks.
- James, kent, 28/10/2009 08:17
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Just keep in mind, when an intruder breaks into your home, the cops are only minutes away.....at a time when seconds count.
Arm yourself to prevent being a victim.
- John, Lancaster, OH USA, 27/10/2009 22:53
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We have armed police here. If attached they shoot back.Usually with deadly results. You are kidding yourselves if you think you can return to bobbies of 75 years ago. With YOBS having no morals this is the result. Live with it.
- John (Brit Expat), Phoenix USA, 27/10/2009 22:16
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comment has been made that the government has caused this problem by introducing pcsos. Is the panecea to all our ills to remove pcsos and replce them with unarmed police constables??? It doesn't matter what your job is, if some gang banger points a gun at you and says, "you gonna die now po po!" you'd believe him.
I think most police constables would like the option to tried by twelve, instead of carried by six.
And if you don't understand anything written herein, you evidently don't inhabit the real world and are unqualified to comment.
- Tom, london, 27/10/2009 21:30
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Final proof that the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
- Matt, London, 27/10/2009 19:18
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In the tradition of 9 / 11 and 7 / 7 we will probably get a bus load of cops machine gunned by' Terrorists' and then they will TELL us we need Police on the Street which is one step before our returning battle hardened troops are also used to patrol our streets getting us ready for the big EYU takeover and the suspension of Democracy re ' Martial Law'.
- Clif, London, 27/10/2009 19:12
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"And how exactly is "the scum" ruining your life in your little tax haven? "
Assault, broken bottles shoved in faces, GBH, car theft, vandalism, drunken brawls every night, no-go areas after 9pm, just like England since we were forced by English Home Office to do away with corporal punishment for hooligans. I also live a lot of the time in England. I also live a lot of the time in another European country where all the police officers (men and women) are armed and are never, ever assaulted because they would shoot the assailants stone dead if they tried it.
- Davidke, ramsey isle of man, 27/10/2009 19:01
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Great - the only common sense initiative I have seen to tackle this problem and it gets shouted down by the vocal PC brigade. Oh well, let the little dears carry on blasting each other away - it's no great loss after all.
- Andy, London, 27/10/2009 18:45
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As an ex-pat and an ex national Service officer it seems to me that the lead police officer in the picture has a rather rusty flash eliminator on his weapon!!! [http://Peel Spuds for the next week officer.|http://Peel Spuds for the next week officer.]
- Michael R. Oyler, Crossville, Tennessee. USA, 27/10/2009 18:16
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Ranter I and most normal people who have got nothing to loose couldn't agrea with you more
- Graham, Sevenoaks, 27/10/2009 17:56
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Thats all we need,British police on the streets with guns,nobody will be safe.
- Kev, London-UK, 27/10/2009 17:15
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Ex-met, what do these people want? If there is a problem with firearms let the police be armed. Be sure that if there are numerous killings and the police haven't reacted sufficiently the same idiots will be moaning. So
make your mind up time. Just to let you know my son is
a D/S and still serving. Youcan't have it both ways!!
- Bruce Hastings, France Roquebrune-Cap-Martin, 27/10/2009 17:04
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In the wake of the De Menezes case, patrol police cannot be trusted with firearms.
Hell, they cant even be trusted with Tazers!
- Simon, London, 27/10/2009 16:42
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Steve, while I agree with the gang statement you made, at least they seem to shoot each other. As for the shoot first attitude of the cops, so what? I feel safer here in San Diego than i would back in London where I will be next week.
- Tony, Escondido Ca, 27/10/2009 16:35
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I don't want to see the Met routinely armed, nor do many officers as there are some people who couldn't be trusted with a manual pencil sharpener out there in uniform let alone a gun. What needs to be done is to make sentences awarded by the courts to be served IN FULL. Serious firearms offences carry penalties of between 10 and 14 years, how many people get the maximum and if so how many SERVE the maximum. How many people EVER serve the sentence given? it's routinely halved - Justice is a joke, to keep police officers and the rest of us safe make the courts do their job and ensure that the government keeps out of sentencing and dictating these ludicrous penalties. What really worries me about this story is the real lack of leadership and grip displayed by Stephenson, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in the Met at the moment!
- Ranter, Maidstone, UK, 27/10/2009 15:52
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Living in San Diego I can say that we have armed police and still have a huge gang problem which they have not resolved. What has happened though is that some junior officers seem to have a shoot first ask questions later attitude that I'm sure the people of London would rather not have. I grew up in London and am proud that even today the police still seem to be able to do a reasonable job without parts of the city becoming the wild, wild west
- Steve, Poway California USA, 27/10/2009 15:42
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"Members of the Metropolitan Police Authority claim the policy has not been properly debated and WILL ATTEMPT (my emphasis) to shelve the plan at a meeting on Thursday."
This means, if you think beyond the headlines, that the MPA simply has members who are opposed to the idea, like that's a surprise. It does not mean that everyone from the mayor on downwards is opposed to some sort of maverick, unsanctioned police planning.
The street thugs aren't just waving guns around to look cool with their mates. If you leave them alone they won't just go away, or even just play amongst themselves like the good little children they are. Hint, most people don't drive below the speed limit - they drive AT the speed limit. Increase it and they will increase their speed. The same applies to what the gangs can get away with on the streets. They will test their limits, depending on weak-kneed ditherers who think "weapons make people do bad things" without any help from the guy holding that weapon. One downside of having a society that has banned all contact with weapons is that people just don't know what the hell they are talking about when the subject comes up. The most ludicrous comment I've heard recently is when someone suggested that the bad guys are arming themselves because the police are.
The mind boggles at such unthinking stupidity.
- Rogan, Irving, 27/10/2009 15:29
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Do you bleeding heart tree hugging liberals not realise that having a group hug and shouting time out to these hardened criminals has not and will not work. You think that a gun amnesty will cause the gangster to give up his weapons.
But in your world of political correctness which sees these gangsters as victims, you ask Police Officers to wave their batons whilst being confronted with one of your victims armed with an Uzi.
Can I suggest that Jenny Jones and her cohorts be made to ride for a week in one of the many unarmed immediate response units to confront these victims, perhaps her views might change, once of course she had emptied her underwear?
- Steve M, London, 27/10/2009 15:20
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How can we all sit back and allow good police intelligence to get it right next time?
Look what happened at Stockwell Station when the police were in a panic and at high alert with so-called good intelligence.
Our government has deliberately taken ‘real officers’ off our streets and replaced them with plastic policemen just to save money and ignore the safety for good citizens.
Everyone is aware of this problem. It seems that the politicians of today are getting paid not to listen to the people that they are supposed to serve.
- Wendy Smith, Knightsbridge, London., 27/10/2009 15:19
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Let the police get on with policing, politicians should stay well away. We already have armed police on 24hr patrol in London why on earth does them getting out of the car and patrolling a trouble area case such a stink? Post G20 lefty hate me thinks
- Simon, Guildford UK, 27/10/2009 14:18
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So Ms McCartney admits there has been an increase in armed crime (look at the statistics - she's right) but says armed police patrolling the spots where this crime takes place is not the answer. What does she propose then? Use unarmed police who are unable to properley protect themselves if confronted by armed bad guys? Or maybe she would like to leave her second home and go out on the streets and give out leaflets, outlining to the gun toting 'gangstas' the error of their ways. No. I thought not. The police are damned if the do and damned if they don't. A lot of people seem quick to judge, critisise and condemn the police, but if they were robbed at gunpoint on their way home from the theatre, their first question would be "where were the police. Why weren't they there to protect me". I'm sure the increasing number of people affected by armed crime will be happy that the met are tackling the problem head on. Who else is going to? Politicians?
- A Concerned Citizen, London, 27/10/2009 13:34
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Who is this person Jenny Jones - does she have any family in the police force - you bet your life she does not. She does not speak for the general public....go ahead get the police armed and get on with it - stop vascilating - listen to the people of the UK - they are fed up with the violence.
The police should be backed, not just allowed to die without any form of protection.....but I am sure that as each unarmed policeman is killed or murdered is a better word - then she may just rethink her stupid ideas but by then policemans lives will be lost - TOO LATE
- Elizabeth Taylor, dallas, tx, 27/10/2009 13:20
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I can never understand the mentality of the people of this country. When I go on holiday abroad, I see the police patrolling around with their sidearms and am reassured and comforted by a sense of protection. We have a crime problem in the UK but the police are handicapped in many ways and this objection to having armed police is one of them. We dont send soldiers to war without their guns.
- Thomas Hayes, Leeds UK, 27/10/2009 13:01
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No shootouts because that will just give more credibility to gang wannabe leaders and those that think they can takeover areas with impunity.
Best way, is to train many marksmen, clearly identify the targets through good intelligence work and shoot them dead on the street from a position of safety, no questions, no public display, just dead. If the odd wrong one is shot then that’s bad luck, they gave up their lives in a good cause, they should not look so guilty. Better one dead innocent than 100 gun-waving gangstas.
- Jerry, London, 27/10/2009 12:56
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Kate,
Very dramatic response but it doesn't wash. The only alternative is the status quo, which means the criminals have won and there will be loads more innocent people meeting their violent deaths. The PC Brigade have had their go now it is time to take the political leash off the Met and let them police London however the situation demands.
Shot outs are pretty rare, usually the police turn up mobbed handed point guns and it's over. The only person I recall being killed by crossfire was a young girl in New Cross and the police weren't anywhere near the scene.
- Mark, South-East London, 27/10/2009 12:54
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Aww, for God's sake, make up your mind...
The Police are supposed to be an Armed Force, give them good weapons, and bring back stiffer including physical punishment (such as forced labour, electric lashes, castrations, etc) and death penalties for major crimes at the discretion of the victims after a time of reflection...
enough pussy footing to the liberal bleeding hearts, your sheepish approach is not working...
forgiveness is for those who appreciate morality, and respect humanity...
and every-time there is a heinous crime, we have indirectly participated in it because we allow laws that do not deter enough against such... we all have blood on our hands, no wonder our world is in such an appalling mess...
- Nabil H, London, UK, 27/10/2009 12:47
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All the police should be armed and should have been a long time ago. It's about time that Britain stopped this gang warfare,drug dealing etc. We are the laughing stock of Europe. Lets make Britain worth living in again..if it means shooting a few thugs in the legs so what.Zero tolerance to ALL crime
- El Del, Valencia Spain, 27/10/2009 12:44
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It's inevitable that armed police means innocent bystanders being wounded and sometimes killed by police bullets.
This may be a necessary evil in the face of increasingly armed criminals, but before taking this step, can we please try making the sentences for criminals using guns great enough to have a truly deterrent effect. Anyone carrying an unlicensed firearm in a public place, or posessing one with criminal intent, must be made to serve several years behind bars. For actually shooting at someone, ten years should be the minimum time served.
Anyone who illegally arms theirself, is displaying a premeditated willingness to commit murder. Their sentence should reflect this!
- Nigel, London, 27/10/2009 12:38
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Jenny jones makes me sick. what a snotty nosed lefty twit whose sole purpose in life is to stick her nose in everywhere. A woman whose history is that of an archiologist..?? and that gives her the right to dictate the tactical deployment of firearms officers?? hmm...
It is the unarmed police who BEGGED for armed support as they are threatened and shot at weekly on these estates!! What should we do? let them die or leave the estates to the gangs??
And her concerns about "rules of engagemnet"...ha ha, she watched too many movies i think. Armed police will only ever open fire if their lives or someone elses life is threatened. fact. And if these thugs have a pop...well, it'l only end one way for them..
NEWS FLASH...Co19 allready do patrol these estates, have allways done. The only didderence is that they'l do it on foot. instead of in a car.
And the 800 rounds a minute mp5 she bangs on about is limited to single shot and is no more powerfull than a pistol. only more accurate..
the fact is, these estaes want armed police, anyone who says otherwise has never spent time there. These gangs of thugs, dealing drugs and robbing people need to fear the police.
Come on people..
- Rich, london, 27/10/2009 12:36
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"Arm the police, shoot some wannabe gangstas and reclaim the streets for the overwhelming majority of London's law abiding citizenry.
- Mark, South-East London"
...Yes, that's exactly what we need. More shootouts on the streets. Brilliant. We'll send you to the relatives of those killed in the crossfire. They'll think it all worthwhile now that the streets have been "reclaimed".
- Kate, London, 27/10/2009 12:26
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This is nothing to do with the left wing MPA. Operational decisions are not their remit - the Met has intelligence that armed criminals are operating in these areas and is taking action to solve the problem. The hand wringing morality-free statement about "more guns on the street" is also very telling as it makes no value distinction between a police force with guns in a democracy and armed hooligans. This is the crux of the liberal thinking which has destroyed law and order and given control of many estates in this very city over to the strongest bulliest and the most violent criminals. Hardly a liberal outcome is it? So why don't they stop scoring points and let the police go ahead and do their job, a job they understand better than second rate politicians.
- Steve Stander, London, 27/10/2009 12:25
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"All police officers should be routinely armed and they should shoot the scum ruining our lives. It will happen anyway, just a matter of time. But will take a few more massacres of the innocents first.
- Davidke, ramsey isle of man"
...So you have armed police to "shoot the scum" on the Isle of Man do you?
And how exactly is "the scum" ruining your life in your little tax haven? Dropping litter, maybe?
- Kate, London, 27/10/2009 12:19
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Just call Paul Kersey - he'll sort it all out!
Thanks to Blair and his cronies, we need something short of a miracle to clear up the crime-ridden, inner city cesspits. More raids and roadblocks, lead by police and immigration squads, could be a start.
- Jock, London, 27/10/2009 11:36
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All police officers should be routinely armed and they should shoot the scum ruining our lives. It will happen anyway, just a matter of time. But will take a few more massacres of the innocents first.
- Davidke, ramsey isle of man, 27/10/2009 11:18
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Ms McCartney, who represents Enfield and Haringey, said there was no question there had been an increase in shootings involving organised gangs.
But she added: “I do not believe that armed patrols are necessarily the answer.”
Jenny Jones, Green Party member on the MPA, said: “This cannot carry on.
We want fewer guns on the streets not more. I cannot see how these patrols will be a deterrent, it may displace it but it will not prevent it.
I'm sure that at the meeting these two ladies will bring forward constructive ideas as to how the Met can police areas where gun crime is a growing problem with unarmed police.
It doesn't seem that long ago when people were complaining that Boris was playing too large a role in policing!
- Dave B, Beckenham, 27/10/2009 10:58
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Counter productive. Many of these gangstas would like nothing more than to get in a shoot out with the 5 0. Just to increase their street cred. Look at the example of joy riders stealing cars and then provoking car chases with the police.
- Threaded, Roskilde, Denmark, 27/10/2009 10:36
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"The Met wants to expand the pilot scheme"
When you say 'The Met' here by definition you're excluding the Commissioner, the senior leadership, the Mayor, the Deputy Mayor for Policing and the MPA, so what does 'The Met' mean? Gun-happy CO19 plod trying to expand their influence and empire-build without consultation? Not giving me a great deal of confidence that Boris's single-handed policy of changes at the top have improved the running of the police, really.
"actually a front for the PC brigade"
First time I've heard Boris and Malthouse referred to as the PC brigade - there are *six* elected Conservatives on the MPA, for your information, inclduing the Chairman and Deputy Chairman, so keep sniffing whatever it is you're sniffing.
Clearly it's dreadful that our elected representatives should seek to have a degree of control over policing at a high level, it's much better for all of us if the state is run by the police. There are countless examples throughout history of why what you could call 'police states' are jolly nice, safe places to live, aren't there? East Germany, perhaps, or North Korea or Pinochet's Chile or revolutionary Iran. That's what we should be striving for instead of all this nonsense about elections and policing by consent and transparent judicial process and local people being involved in policing decisions affecting their areas.
- Tom, London, UK, 27/10/2009 10:12
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Arm the police, shoot some wannabe gangstas and reclaim the streets for the overwhelming majority of London's law abiding citizenry.
- Mark, South-East London, 27/10/2009 10:08
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What a surprise the so-called Metropolitan Police Authority-actually a front for the PC brigade- to frustrate the Met's ability to enforce the rule of law-are opposed to this move.Instead they want more fluffy community "consultation" etc etc etc. Fact-guns are are used widely by hoodie gangs to terrorize & to protect their turf & they strut around London dispensing violence as part of their warped idea of "respect". By all means use a carrot & stick approach- but it has to be a very large stick followed by carrot puree.
- Dalstonblogger, London, 27/10/2009 09:26
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