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David Cameron was hit by two Tory resignations today and denounced as “pathetic” and “autistic” by the French foreign minister over his new policies on Europe.
Euro-MPs Dan Hannan, a rising star with Tory grass roots, and Roger Helmer both quit frontbench posts in the European Parliament in protest at the Tory U-turn on holding a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
In a searing attack, Mr Helmer dismissed as “cosmetic” and “ineffective” the new policies unveiled by Mr Cameron last night. That, however, paled beside the extraordinary abuse heaped on Mr Cameron by Pierre Lellouche, the French foreign minister. He said the new Tory stance would “castrate” British influence and cast the Tories to Europe's backwaters.
“It's pathetic,” he said. “It's just very sad to see Britain, so important in Europe, cutting itself out from the rest and disappearing from the radar map.” Mr Lellouche said the Tories showed a “bizarre autism” on European affairs and their new plans would not succeed “for a minute”.
“They are doing what they have done in the European Parliament,” he told the Guardian. “They have essentially castrated your UK influence.”
Dismissing Mr Cameron's pledge to negotiate the return of powers signed away to the EU, Mr Lellouche jeered: “It's not going to happen for a minute. Nobody is going to indulge in rewriting [treaties for] many, many years.”
Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said Mr Lellouche's attack simply reflected the toughness of the Tory approach. “Will we be tougher negotiators [than Labour]? Yes, we will,” he said on GMTV. “Will we occasionally get some abuse for that? Yes, we will.”
Mr Helmer also dismissed Mr Cameron's plans. “What we have is an essentially cosmetic policy,” he wrote. “We are installing a largely ineffective burglar alarm when the family silver has already been stolen.”
Mr Hannan called for Tories to join him — fuelling speculation he is positioning himself as future leader of the Tory right.
Mr Cameron dropped his “cast-iron guarantee” for a Lisbon vote after the Treaty passed into law. In its place he pledged laws to ensure votes are held before future power transfers.
Reader views (50)
I wouldn't say jelly fish more the Pilsbury dough man but both are spineless. Fortunately "Dave" has shown he is useless and untrustworthy well before the election next year. Back a hung parliament.
- Derek Porter, London, UK
@Graham "Although the Tories under Heath took us into Europe, this followed a Referendum of the electorate when we voted to join what was then the EEC"
No, they took the UK into the EC in 1973 and the referendum in 1975 was Harold Wilson's work. Nice simple unambiguous question, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?", result 2:1 in favour.
- Tonyb, Melbourne, Australia
Graham Rodhouse, Helmond, Netherlands
Before you make your mind up Graham, you might want to review your facts. Although the Tories under Heath took us into Europe, this followed a Referendum of the electorate when we voted to join what was then the EEC (i.e. the European ECONOMIC Community). We therefore joined an Economic trading group NOT a Federal state. However the EU (as it's now called) is a very different kettle of fish. It believes in centralisation and standardisation. It now wants to be a Federal State controlling not just Economic issuesd, but full Social, Legal and Political union. If that's what you really want then follow Gordon Brown. If not, then at least David Cameron is attempting to find a way of working 'within' the EU (unlike UKIP) without giving up our total sovereignty. Not an easy route, but certainly not the total surrender to the "we know best" central powers in Brussels espoused by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. I know who I'm going to vote for and it isn't Brown or UKIP
- Malcolm, London
“Yes We Will” William Hague thinks he is, Barack Obama.
Another reason why you just can’t trust ‘A Tory Government’ – The first sign of pressure and it is clear that under this pathetic weasel, a David Cameron government would ruin Britain’s Greatness. Our nations reputation and standing in the world would quickly capitulate to become a laughing stock…
In my view David Cameron will say and do just about anything to get elected. Is it not clear that when he made his so-called promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, he knew then that there was likely no chance of that promise ever coming to fruition.
This country needs change and leadership, disappointingly David Cameron has proven to be un-trustworthy and many voters have begun to see this. The Tory party needs change and I think Boris Johnson could be the man to put the Tories back on track. I think he might just be someone the nation could trust, he did after all tell it like it is when warned the Tory party that it would be "difficult" to hold a referendum if the Lisbon Treaty had already come into force. Right now if the choice remains Mr Brown or Mr Cameron then I would not be surprised if the nation returned a labour government…
- Mjm, Dartford, UK
Cameron is a traitor to our people whose words are louder than his actions. His promise to us has been broken. He cannot be trusted. Till now was always a Tory voter. Not any longer. UKIP here I come.
- David Uri, London UK
Here is something for all of the people who believe in UK being part of EU...Within a VERY SHORT period of time
the UK Border Agency will be instructed by EU Law to embrace the SCHENGEN VISA system which means our Borders
will be more open than they are now, and that means more
immigrants coming to the UK as the SCHENGEN system means OPEN BORDERS..that is only one of the EU Laws to be implemented..the UK has until now resisted joining the system,now some ''idiots'' in Brussels will demand this implemented...so watchout this is just the beginning
- European, Hong Kong China
Just a few weeks ago Cameron was saying that he had full confidence in Mr Hannan despite his comments about the NHS. The Tory Rank and File believe he is a Superstar and this probably tells us whether the Tory Party has really changed.
- D Dare, Kenton England
Brown is the one who reneged on his promise for a referendum and who signed the treaty surreptitiously. It is he to whom people's anger should be directed.
If Cameron calls a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty it will have little effect because it will already be law.
What Cameron really needs to do is to promise a referendum as to whether we should leave the EU altogether. I suspect that there would be overwhelming support for this. The UK could then restore its democracy, its pride and its economic strength.
- Percy Vere, Chipping Campden, Glos.
Now that we are supposed to be part of the EU we should adopt their welfare system and that will stop immigrants coming into this country. Also give pensionsers better pensions as well. David Cameron cannot put forward a vote on EU Lisbon treaty because this country signed it without any opt out clauses and now we shall be treated like second class citizens and the job creations will go to the rest of Europe not GB as they do not like sharing take the cancelled Opel/Vauxhall deal where Germany was looking after its own.
- Frances, Leics
One person asked "Exactly what do we stand to lose by pulling out all together?"
Michael of London replied "Our entire farming industry, for starters - it's only being kept alive artificially by EU subsidies."
Perhaps it has escaped his attention that this is OUR MONEY to start with? We pay more to the EU than we get back. We can subsidise our own farming industry without paying admin fees to the EU for collecting our cash and giving some of it back to us.
No wonder some people who haven't got a clue about how it affects Britain think the EU is wonderful.
- Trjs, UK
Thank God the paranoid ignorance expressed on here is just internet ranting.
The EU is the best thing that's happened to our continent since the Romans. Britain has actually been an ineffectual little country for nearly a century now but the EU guarantees that we will retain autonomy and control of our destiny.
Hannan is a disgrace and should go to UKIP quickly if they'd even have him, burned as they are by being used as a vehicle by massive egotists
- Lee Jones, London
With the recent expenses debacle do our own polititians have any more real interest, outside of their own, in this country than those in Brussels.
- Brian, London
The real villains here are Gordon Brown for allowing us to sign up to the treaty with the referendum that his party promised, and also the French. Because they are French.
The Labour Party will be laughing into their meat pies at all this mudslinging as it conveniently detracts from the fact that they are more responsible for the UK being in this situation than a spineless opposition.
- Nobby Clark, Perth, the Scottish one
We have fought wars and enshrined laws for the benefits of other countries to live by self determination.
Now we have had this right taken away from us.
I'm voting for whoever gets us out of Europe.
We will survive and be all te better off for it.
- Rikrok, London
The EU has just approved a budget of 50,000 million euros
(yes 50 billion euros) to open 130 'embassies' all over the world. For embassies to be recognised by a host country they have to represent a state. Labour's treachery is unspeakable, but... we were so busy watching Big Brother and Stricklty Come Dancing.. we allowed the to get away with it. With all the will in the world, Cameron can not change EU law. We could come out of the EU, but we have lost the will to live. Only our brave soldiers are prepared to put their lives on the line.
- Beatriz, London
I can't understand the idea that, because the EU Parliament is in Brussels, we have no say in it. We do have a huge number of British MEPs and civil servants who are supposed to be fighting our corner. Sure if Cameron pulls us to the edges of the system we'll be marginalised and unable to influence decisions but if we are active members we can shape legislation to suit us. Cameron's stance, however, seems to be neither in nor out so is the worst of both worlds!
- Richard, LONDON
Well all is now clear. Labour, Conservative or Liberal will not pledge to severely kerb the impact of the EU on the UK. They will not seek to reduce the UK financial contribution to Europe and they all regard immigration as a lost cause. I don't know about you but I want my politicians to be effective in making my country ie England and then the UK an effective player in the global stage, currently there is no hope of that, only pathetic posturing.
My vote and I suspect the vote of many will go
(a) The party that clearly bases its policy and solid timetabled commitments to significantly impacting the power of The EU in England, (Scotland and Northern Ireland can do what they want.
(b) Produce realistic achievable plans to stop migration into the UK and reduce the UK population by reducing migrants.
(c)Produce effective plans and timescales for reducing the EU contribution and stopping benefits to all of those that have not made a recent contribution into the English National Insurance Fund, again Scotland and Northern Ireland can do what they want.
I want to see all of this published as firm party commitments well before the next election, perhaps in January !
- Jerry, London
I would vote UKIP if I thought it would make a difference, however a vote for them will just allow Labour back for another 5 years which is simply abhorrent. Yes Cameron is getting some stick, but really what choice does he have? The treaty is law and there is nothing we can do about it - save your ire for Labour who promised us a referendum and did not give it!
- Nickspurs, London, London
Britain needs the EU. The EU will continue to develop with or without Britain. Outside the EU, Britain will become an offshore casino and theme park, populated by fat, illiterate lager louts (i.e. the Tory Party) harking back to "The War" and an England that never was .....
The EU is the future.
- Leslie Moody, Västerås, Sweden
If Cameron, Hague and Osborne are real leaders, they will call for the British People to have their vote - either that or they should step down. As it stands, they are dishonourable men and terrible decision makers. They are like Blackadder's Lord Melchett, Percy and Baldrick. I hope they have a "cunning plan".
- Edmund Blackadder, Devon
Martyn L - I'm glad you're making sensible comparisons with Switzerland, because all these incessant Eurosceptic references to Norway and Switzerland and how well they do outside the EU completely miss the point that they have much smaller populations than the UK (a mere fraction in both cases) and are much richer per capita, not least because they have a rather better track record of sensibly investing their national wealth. (Look at what Norway did with North Sea oil compared with us).
As you correctly point out, if we pulled out of the EU we'd become completely insignificant almost overnight. Europe will hardly be in a mood to do business with us (a big deal given that it's our largest market), and Obama's US barely acknowledges our existence. It's a recipe for total meltdown, as Cameron and Hague know perfectly well - which is why leaving the EU is absolutely not on their agenda.
- Michael, London
Cameron could well and truly have just lost the next General Election. The people of this country want and should have their vote NOW - just so that we can show Europe what we think. It is rubbish for Hague and Cameron to say they don't want to create bust-ups when our liberty is being threatened. This is the first step towards mass brainwashing by vicious power hungry leaders who would like nothing better than to strip Britain of our sovereignty. We don't want a Federal State, so give us the right to express our anger with a vote or you just won't get into power Mr. Cameron. We need change, so make that vote happen.
I will have to decide whether or not I should carry on with the Conservative Party - a few other PPCs feel the same way. The guys at the top are wet socks who clearly can't stand up to European Leaders. We need this argument now to establish the ground rules. There should be a People's march through London and a People's Ballot. Cameron and Hague really have missed a trick here. I would be amazed if they can win power now. They have let the Party down completely.
- Tory Insider, UK
I agree with some other comments here that Hannan is a disaster for the Tories and would be better in UKIP with the other Euro obsessives. He is not a team player and makes a Tory victory less likely every time he opens his big mouth.
- Alan J, London
so who are we supposed to vote for? - Labour are dreadful and the Tories are slowly but surely showing their true colours and the divisions within their party (on the NHS, on Europe...what next?) with a seeming perchant for joining the far right which will be disastrous for Britain. Whilst some out there talk of the good old days of Thatcher - she started the divide between rich and poor, cutting of public services (including vital services not just administrators - I worked in the NHS and the number of beds were cut dramatically and inappropriately) - in the current climate we cannot afford to cut spending as it will send us deeper into a recession (and market forces economics/big business have shown that they are incapable of doing anything other than looking after their own self interest). Labour are no better having increased the gap between rich and poor and until recently following market forces economics to appease the wealthy businessmen (trying to be Tories?) - look where that got us!
- Andy, london
Time for a proper referendum; in or out. End of argument. Think we'll get it?
- Jules_London, london
Are the Tories serious about taking the UK out of the social chapter? All this legislation does is provide a few very basic minimum standards to employees who work in private companies that prevent them from being made to work extremely long hours and guarantee them a minimum amount of paid holiday time and time off. It is now clear the Tories would like to trash these rights. The more you see of the Tories, the more two things are clear, they are still obsessed with Europe and they are still a very right wing "bosses and rich persons" party.
- Matthew Smith, London UK
The EU is like a giant portuguese man of war Jellyfish,infecting and harming everything that comes within its reach.The only party that will take us out of this nightmare Communist Europa is the delightfully named United Kingdom Independence Party,or UKIP,why not lend them your vote next time?it does exactly what it says on the packet.
- General Lee Wright, Bent Kent, Broken Britain
@ Michael, London
We are NET contributors. We could support our own farmers and have loads left over for other areas to boot.
This idea that we will somehow lose out if we withdraw is ******** Remember NET contributor means we pay more than we get back.
This argument about jobs is also ********. Didn't hundreds of British workers lose out because a certain company shipped in hundreds of Italian workers on the cheap? The only beneficiary of mass immigration is big business.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
Cameron has NOT made a U-turn- he never intended giving us a referendum on the Lisbon Constitution in the first place. His gamble that ratification would be complete before he had the chance to do it has paid off.
As Roger Helmer and Dan Hannan have pointed out, Cameron's claims that he will put any further transfer of sovereignty to the vote, and repatriate powers already ceded to the EUSSR, are completely disingenuous. The Lisbon Constitution takes away from our domestic government all powers need to do those things.
Sue of Orpington is absolutely right, we would be better off out.
As for Michael's comment about our farming industry; it has suffered as much as our fishing industry, both have been decimated by unwanted and unnecessary interference from Brussels. The CAP was set up to benefit French and German farmers, which it has done very successfully.
Most of our own farmers would be glad to see the back of it, its constant meddling, quotas and artificially controlled prices.
- Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster
I was down in Brighton at the weekend and I thought I saw David Cameron in the sea but it turned out to be a jellyfish, I've always had a problem with invertebrates.
- Bob, Cheam
And if we leave Europe? Who really cares? We are viewed by major powers as part of Europe; we are inconsequential in the greater scheme of things. If Mr Cameron is that keen then he should say he wll pull us out....stupid man, he will not because he knows we would be in an even bigger mess. I think its time we moved on from this boring old argument perpetuated by a bunch of ageing Tory voters
- Sheila, london uk
Pierre Lellouche is not the French Foreign Minister who is Bernard Kouchner,but the Under Secretary in charge of European Affairs and well known to be outspoken.If the British want to be isolated from the Continent and not the reverse, the UK being a democracy, it is their votes which will decide, but was it not Churchill who said that political promises were only binding on those believing in them:to be elected, Conservatives please some parts of the British electorate, but Conservatives are in business and most of it is done nowadays in Europe, so nothing will change.From a French point of view, De Gaulle said at the time, not to bring in the British, it is going to be a mess. In fact each country explains to its voters that the good things comes from them and the stupid ones comes from Brussels, but who appoints the ones in Brussels ? Fascinating hypocrisy !
- Bertagna, Paris-France
Well the Tories took us into europe without holding a referendum and now they want a referendum for all changes!! So I take it these referendums will come from their party funds as I sont see why taxpayers should fund their gesture politics!!
You know the main problem with Cast Iron it tends to rust so it looks like we will need to refer to Cameron as "RUSTY" from now on!
Luckly we have a Prime Minister who made of steel while his predecessor came with Teflon coating!
The fact is we already have UKIP as a party who want to leave europe so who represents Tories who are in favour of europe?
Yet again Cameron has not got the bottle to call for a referendum on whether we should remain in europe no doubt because he fears a Yes vote.
While for Brown if their is a hung parliament he has the freedom to hold a referendum which would give him the backing of UKIP until the result is declared!!!
Time for David Davis to challenge Cameron methinks..
- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex
Labour-to-Conservative-to-Labour-to-Conservative. When will the people of this new E.U. province learn that if they seriously want the U.K. to again be a self-governing country, they need to vote for a party that stands for such freedom. There's only one party to vote for if you want the U.K. to return to a self-governing country: U.K.I.P. Otherwise, stay with the old parties and let those offshore set the policies that run your daily life.
- Phil Jones, London UK
It would be great news for the Conservative's chances of winning the next election if Mr Hannan resigned from the party completely.
After all, he is the man who would like to get rid of the NHS and replace it with a US style system which would be vastly more expensive and tends to only to be available to the rich and/or those people unlikely to claim.
- Mike Constable, Islington, London
People are mad to think that Europe has done nothing for us. What don't the tories like? human rights? Social chapter? Anything that means our traditional ruling class can't continue to extort millions of pounds while suppressing millions of people. Silly people. Yes, we pay a lot into the EU coffers. So do other countries. BUT and its a BIG but, we benefit to a much greater extent from being inside the EU than outside.
The Tories lambast Europe for asking the Irish to repeat their EU referendum. we had one in the 1970s and the people decided to join the EEC. Our democratically elected officials have gone on to negotiate the changes to that body into what it is today. Indeed, Mrs Thatcher was the one in charge when the change to a union (1992 and all that) was being negotiated. Strangely those same tories now see no contradiction in making the UK repeat its own referendum to get an answer that they like. Come off it - this is ridiculous.
The EU has a democratic deficit, but so does Westminster. That's not to excuse the deficit, but to say to people come on. Stand up and do something about it - and I don't just mean whingeing about expenses. Why has my MP (Eleaonor Laing, con.) who I have written to numerous times NEVER answered my letters? How do I complain about that? Who is she accountable to? The party whip? It should be me and my neighbours.
Mr Cameron has the look of someone who doesn't actually believe a word he's saying but will say anything to get into power.
- Richard, Buckhurst hill, Essex
From Hannan's blog two months ago.
Just two months ago, Daniel Hannan, Conservative Euro-MP, who was on Newsnight on Tuesday night saying that it didn't matter what a referendum was about, just as long as there were one, wrote this:
I am increasingly confident that Britain will get its referendum. I’m not in a position to explain why at this stage, but our hand is stronger than is generally supposed. I know this won’t do for some of my readers, but I’m afraid that, for now, you’ll just have to take my word for it.
Wonder why he's peeved?
- David, London uk
It’s so obvious now that neither of the two main political parities are up to the job they are paid to do, as they clearly don’t understand the full legal elements and complexities of that which they are handling.
Cameron has lost all credibility in one go by promising a so-called ‘Cast Iron Guarantee’ over an issue he clearly doesn’t understand.
New Labour are useless at controlling finances, drafting Laws to protect the public, and insist on giving foreign affairs priority over home affairs.
The Government of the UK should as is be dissolved and re-established in a business manner, not run as a ‘Taxpayer Funded’ free’ for all as it is now.
- Carl Barron, Christchurch, Dorset
The French know how to play the system Jimbob - most of our politicans, of all parties, are incapable of arguing a case intellectually - preferring the infantile Ya Boo style of Commons debate which earns contempt elsewhere.
The sad fact is that outside Europe UK will eventually become an overcrowded 3rd world nation, like Haiti without the sun. And don't look to the USA for a lifeline. We will be of no strategic use to them. We will not be freed from Europe's shackles either. Switzerland succeeds economically by agreeing to a vast range of Europe-imposed diktats and controls - and paying hefty annual charges too.
Britain has wasted the last few decades by standing on the sidelines trying to be different instead of fighting to mould the shape of Europe, which we could have done.
- Martyn L, Kingston.
I urge everyone to read the Treaty (there is a condensed version if you google it). There are lots of benefits if we come out the EU and absolutely none if we stay in. I won't be voting Tory, Labour or Liberal at the next election. My vote is going to the party who campaign for us to come out the EU. Dave of London is absolutely correct. We pay billions (second highest contribution) and we seem to be the only country who actually plays by the rules.
- Sue, Orpington, Kent
"Exactly what do we stand to lose by pulling out all together?"
Our entire farming industry, for starters - it's only being kept alive artificially by EU subsidies. Which is why it's so ironic that British farmers tend to be so Eurosceptic, because their businesses would have folded years ago if it wasn't for the EU.
- Michael, London
It was past Tory governments that took us into Europe, while Labour had to be dragged there, kicking and screaming all the way. Now the wheel seems to have gone a full circle, with the Tories wanting to take us out again. This just tells me the Tories never knew what they were doing or talking about in the first instance, and they know even less today. David Cameron´s basic knowledge of politics, the economy and Europe does not encourage me to jump on the noisy Tory bandwagon. I´ll stick with Labour for a while yet. Sorry if I´m rocking a few boats, but in spite of all the criticism of Gordon Brown, I think he knows what he´s doing and what he´s talking about.
- Graham Rodhouse, Helmond, Netherlands
Mr Hannan MEP is totally unstable (look at those eyes) as his NHS comments show. Mr Cameron is right to stand up to Mr Hannan and when a French Minister is so rude, Mr Cameron must know he has got the balance right. The whole EU project will start to fail unless it starts to reform the CAP and become more free market. Lets win the argument inside the EU and the French know the truth.
- Andrew, London
Dave, of London, good comment, but we already lost our country; Lisbon is just the final nail in the coffin. The idea is we just become a province, in the USSR like structure which the EU is becoming, unable to go it alone because we have no home manufacturing industry left, and all our resources, such as the once rich fishing industry, stripped by the rest of Europe. And naturally, we will pay dearly for all this, both in loss of freedoms and financially with an array of new taxes to feed the Brussels monster. We are now so weakened by EU membership that to go it alone becomes increasingly impracticable, and it's obvious that all three main parties would never consider EU pull-out, however onerous our membership becomes-already 'Dave' Cameron is saying no referendums for five years...THAT is what I call pathetic.
- Jon Kent, Hertford. UK
Europe aside, this bloke dave reminds me of a jelly fish,
seriously if this bloke gets into number 10 he'll be just
as much a disaster as brown.
- Frank, London
Any English person with any sense will pack their bags and get out of this fast-sinking cesspit today.
It beggars belief that 400,000 service men and women sacrificed their lives for the freedoms of the UK - and, all we finish up with is being dictated to by a gaggle of spivs in Brussels.
- Reuben Camara, Plot 1, Morecambe Compound, EUSSR
You have to love the cheek of the French.
If we decide to pull out the French, Germans, Italians Etc. will be missing £173m a day not to milk their cows, grow crops and so on.
Exactly what do we stand to lose by pulling out all together?
- Jimbob, Kensington
Unfortunately nothing can be said until the general election has been called and Political Parties have put their manifestos in writing. As Labour has the habit of filching good ideas and calling them their own.
But then all Political Parties steal ideas, tis called plagiarism and the Conservatives have been known for that.
- Bill, Hay~Heath UK
Wake up Britain. I know it is hard to change who you have voted for over the years,I have always voted for the Tories,but unless we get out of the EU we will lose our country.Laws passed by Brussels will be enforced here,refugees that Brussels sent here must by law be allowed in and they can determine how much we pay them in benefits.Cameron says he will give Brussels no more powers,but the trueth is they already have all the powers and there are no more to be given.For the sake of your children and your grandchildren,vote for any party that is prepared to give you a say on the EU.Until the next election,Britain as you new it does not exist,you have one chance to restore democracy,one vote to take back you country,I beg you to read the Lisban Treaty and ask yourself,do you really want to be governed by a bunch of foreign politicians.
- Dave, london
We are now but a little county in an unelected undemocratic country called europe. Get over it.
- Steve, Brentford
