Tonight:
-5°c
Railway chaos as drivers stay at home and plan Christmas strike
Dick Murray and Ross Lydall11 Nov 2009
Passengers using one of London's busiest train services face pre-Christmas disruption after a drivers' union ordered a strike ballot over pay.
Aslef bosses this afternoon announced they were asking First Capital Connect drivers to vote on industrial action. A decision is due on 9 December and a walkout could follow a week later.
Commuters on the company's Bedford to Brighton line, via Gatwick airport, already face problems getting home after more than 70 trains were cancelled or altered today because drivers refused to work overtime.
Liberal Democrat Transport spokesman Norman Baker condemned the "farcical" situation and said the company, union and Government were failing in their duty to run services.
On Sunday, First Capital Connect was forced to cancel most services on its other route, Great Northern, between King's Cross, Stevenage, Cambridge and King's Lynn.
Strikes would apply on both lines, which are used by 400,000 passengers a day. Aslef represents most of the firm's 600 drivers but staff in the RMT union would not cross picket lines.
Drivers have been offered an improved pay deal but are furious that it still involves a freeze this year. There would be a rise the following year at one per cent above the Retail Price Index inflation rate or a minimum of three per cent.
Keith Norman, Aslef general secretary, said: "First Group is very profitable and we demand proper recompense for our members who play an essential part in help to make that profit."
Today 50 trains were cancelled and 24 had fewer carriages or called at fewer stations. Trains that did run between Bedford and Brighton this morning, especially those into London, were packed. Bob Crow, the RMT leader, said: "Staff cannot be press-ganged into working overtime on their rest days."
Reader views (45)
Initially this is not a union issue, this is just the drivers making a statement against the train operator. FCC commit to running a service but dont employ enough drivers to operate this and reley on the goodwill of staff to take time away from there familys to work overtime. As for the government stating that the drivers are irresponsible, i think they need to look at FCC before they critisze the drivers. These private rail orperators now see these franchises purley as a way to make money and have forgotten that we are there to provide a service to the travelling public. Its finally a time for total re-nationalization of the whole rail network.
PASSENGERS BEWARE.. MORE DRIVERS FROM OTHER COMPANYS IN THE SOUTHEAST ARE GOING TO SUFFER THE SAME PROBLEM VERY SOON. MORE DRIVERS ARE GOING TO MAKE A STAND AGAINST WORKING OVERTIME TO KEEP TRAINS RUNNING.
Finally BOB CROW, keep your nose out of it. you just intise hatred towards drivers from the public. Let the Drivers have there own voice or leave it to the Drviers union ASLEF.
Rant over. Good luck passengers. December will be rough.
- Paul, London, 13/11/2009 09:06
Report abuse
FCC Pay £38,000 for a FOUR day week of 35 hours and they don't fancy overtime in a recession which can take pay to nearly 50k! This is a scandal and shout be YOUR FRONT PAGE SPLASH!
- James, London, UK, 12/11/2009 09:25
Report abuse
How can 50% of their core service can be reliant on voluntary overtime? Can you really sell such a service based on an assumption and hope? It’s like selling goods you simply can’t guarantee to supply. If x number of trains require x number of full-time drivers why do they not have them? Shouldn’t this be the basis of any business model or am I missing something?
- Wayne Mcdonough, Crawley, West Sussex, 12/11/2009 09:16
Report abuse
All you southern softies who criticise the unions. Don't forget, it was your grandfathers and before who fought for better conditions to give you the soft life you have today.
You owe a lot to unions. Having said that, I am sure there are two sides to it.The real lazy so and so's are the overpaid ceo's and managing directors. Vent your frustration on them first. As I said, two sides....
Ray , expat in USA.
- Ray Jarvis, marlborough USA, 12/11/2009 00:42
Report abuse
Bob Crow and the RMT do not represent the majority of train drivers. ASLEF is the train drivers' union. The drivers have been waiting for the company to talk about pay since April. Not enough drivers are employed to cover the service. Drivers are contracted to work Saturdays and work 2 out of 3, taking rest days during the week. Sundays are rostered as extra days but drivers' may decline them by giving 7 days notice.
It takes more than a year to qualify as a driver. Driving a train is a safety critical activity - no room for poor discipline with 230+ tons travelling at 100mph carrying 800 passengers.
- Sam Roger, St .Albans, 11/11/2009 22:13
Report abuse
On what possible basis are they justified in striking when they get base salary of 38k , nice pension and 35 hr week. And a 3 pct
payrise. What planet ?! Please can we get a govt with guts to stomp on these bloody unions. Farcical.
- Alan, Harpenden, 11/11/2009 22:01
Report abuse
Tony, London:
"...Open up the turnstiles and let the public travel travel for free..."
That's not as easy as it sounds. The barrier staff are not involved in this dispute and refusing to do their work would mean that they can be disciplined, and possibly dismissed by FCC for taking secondary action. That's one of the trade union laws that were brought in by the Tories.
First Group seem to make a mess of almost every rail franchise that they operate. They made a right hash of the old Western Region out of Paddington...remember the passenger strike..? Some of their bus operations arn't too good in certain areas either. I believe that you will find that they were also one of the major lobbyists of the government that caused the cancellation of many tramway projects...because they would have competed with their buses.
- Mark H, London, England, 11/11/2009 22:00
Report abuse
Just because there is a recession, doesn't mean that the workforce should roll over and be exploited.
Overtime should always be voluntary, not a get out of jail free card for the management to understaff at will.
A unionised workforce is the only way to underpin a fair society, without which we'd be nothing but blue collar slaves.
- Neil, London, UK, 11/11/2009 21:19
Report abuse
Personally, I would just ban train drivers from working overtime as it is clearly a Health and Safety issue. We don't want tired drivers in charge of trains with hundreds of passengers on board.
Employ more staff on flexible working terms and have them work on weekends.
Finally, I sincerely hope that an incomign tory Government will introduce legislation so that when a strike ballot is called a majority of members must actively vote for action rather than relying on the 60% of 20% (or whatever nonsense) it currently is.
Failing that, just class transport workers as key workers (like police) and prevent them from striking. They have had it cushy for far too long.
- Ian Gilbertson, Newcastle, 11/11/2009 20:43
Report abuse
Frank, Home Counties. As a self-professed anti-Socialist answer this one: If Capitalism put safety and service before employers' greed, then surely FCC would've simply hired enough drivers in the first place. Perhaps Socialism would be the better option than the current mess... P.S Are you honestly saying you work more hours than ANY public sector worker, junior doctors etc included? Get real.
- Oliver, Barnet, England., 11/11/2009 20:41
Report abuse
This bunch of cowboys deserve to be sacked outright. The number of people in both private and public sectors NOT getting a pay rise for the next year or two should make these self righteous idiots take a step back and think they should be thankful for the fact that:
A) They have a job in the first place.
B) They are already well paid for the job they do, given the hours they work.
C) They are on a final salary pension.
Don't believe everything that Bob Crowe and his cronies peddle to the press. And just remember he's happy as he's leading these lemmings.
- Richard, Surrey, 11/11/2009 20:34
Report abuse
Frank, 'Home Counties' - Thank you for your comments, erudite as ever.
Actually, I vote Conservative and always will.
Please qualify your statement further - I would prefer an intelligent, researched response.
Thanks Frank - enjoy your walk to work ( yeah, right...)
- Jim, London, UK, 11/11/2009 19:37
Report abuse
Anything First is involved with is rubbish!!!
If they cant provide the main Monday to Friday service without overtime it suggests they need more drivers but this is First and we all know how tight fisted these scots are!!
This also demonstrates the mess that has arisen in the name of Tory Privatisation where profits come before service but they willingly take government subsidies.
Perhaps its time train companies followed the banks with part ownership by the government!
The irony is over £5 billion pounds is currently being invested into this railway!!!
- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex, 11/11/2009 19:06
Report abuse
We were told this morning on the BBC that a party of workers who are to go to Coventry for a conference found that it would be too expensive to go by train, and so have booked coaches for far, far less than the rail fares.
I suspect that one of the reason is that a number, if not all were to go 1st. Class..you know what I mean,the British Class that is the same as standard class on German or French..or..well anyone else actually,but even if not that, what an admittance to make, it was prob. leaked though, after the only decent news these days is the leaked news.
Bob Crow and his ilk under the premise of better pay and conditions for our members are the very people who have brought our railways to the sorry state that they are in today.
The Socialist unions of the UK would put the old USSR to shame..but this man is not a friend of the railways, the fiend of them is far closer.
He is of the old school, look at the statue outside the Trades Union Congress, building in London..it appears to show a man giving another a helping hand up from the ground...my Father used to say that he had been knocked down there by the unions in the first place!
these are our railways. I first put my trunk on a steam train at 8 years of age to go to boarding school. I am now over 60 do not travel free, pay for a network card, not an over 65 card.
Bob Crow IS scrooge.
- Patrick Frankling, Richmond Surrey England, 11/11/2009 18:55
Report abuse
Why is First Capital Connect expecting drivers to work overtime, on their rest days, in order to provide its normal, timetabled service? It should hire more drivers (which would have the added spin-off of reducing the unemployment figures), put employees before greed, and make sure it has enough drivers to cover the service: A tired driver working 6/7 days a week is more liable to mistakes: All those who label them greedy would think differently if another Hatfield/Welham Green disaster occured.
- Oliver, Barnet, England., 11/11/2009 18:51
Report abuse
more try hard, pseudo-pop pyschology from Jim I notice.
"Perhaps the railway companies should simply employ enough drivers to be able to run a service without relying on staff to volunteer for overtime."
disingenous statements like this are half the problem. sounds reasonable on the surface, but when you realise how short their working week is, then it starts looking downright dishonest. why should you hire an extra staff member, for every 3 drivers who don't work a decent stretch?
I might have sympathy for a driver working 45 - 50 hours a week, not one on 35 odd hours.
work shy, overpaid bludgers.
- Scotty, London, 11/11/2009 18:01
Report abuse
Bob Crow is a symptom of the "British working-class disease" from the 1970s. Anyone who has employed a builder from the UK and then had to have a Polish man pick up the pieces with 1000% more efficiency will know what I mean. Anyone who has suffered from the utter laziness and bolshiness of UK-born London postmen refusing to work one extra hour in the afternoon and causing a national strike, will know what I mean. Anyone who employs a working-class Brit in any small business will suffer daily from their tea-break obsessed inefficiency ande anachronism ... My message is simple - we should deport all Chavs to the Costa del Sol where they can annoy Spanish people with their inefficiency, laziness, ignorance, tendency towards meaningless, almost psychotic violence and worthlessness.
- Dimitri Toseland, United Kingdom, 11/11/2009 17:40
Report abuse
Due to the industrial action at the post office,I will not be sending Christmas cards this year,I will send Christmas greetings via Email or Text or call around to people.I will give the money that I would have spent on postage to a worthy cause.As for wasting money on train travel I will find other forms of transport or not travel at all.I am sick and tired of these Bone heads keeping me to ransom just when it suits them.WE ARE ALL FINDING THINGS TOUGH AT THE MOMENT SO WHATS SO SPECIAL ABOUT YOU LOT.Join the real world and work for a living
- Mick, london, 11/11/2009 17:35
Report abuse
I took a 20% paycut to try and keep my job. It really saddens me when I here that the drivers want more esprcially in these hard times, would it not be best till we are out of reccession?
As for Bob Crow, do you ever ask youself what us innocent people have to suffer because of your views?
I feel sorry for the passengers and not the drivers, so do the decent thing and enjoy your overtime while us less well off try to hold on to our jobs.
I rather have what I have than Greed.
- C Cusano, Bedford, 11/11/2009 17:29
Report abuse
Just part of the pre-Christmas season really. Out come the cards and the big bad Crow. Things will look better when the lights come on - global warming permitting.
- James Elliott, Eastborne UK, 11/11/2009 17:22
Report abuse
This is a nightmare scenario for passengers: caught up in a playground fight between greedy bosses who only care about shareholders and dinosaur union members who are totally divorced from the real world. What makes it even worse is that FCC's PR twonks spent most of last fortnight LYING about the situation, using the excuse of sunny weather during half-term as the reason for drivers not wanting to work overtime! This just proves that they think their passengers are gullible idiots.
I love the photo of Bob Crow, by the way.
- Paul, Luton, 11/11/2009 17:12
Report abuse
Commuting into London from St Albans is just proving unbearable. We are truly being held to ransom. We pay ££££s to get into London and I expect a good and efficient service.
- Daniela C, St Albans, 11/11/2009 17:03
Report abuse
Well, Worst have now announced that they intend to cancel 50% of their trains on Thursday and Friday.
Oh joy of joys
- Keith, London, 11/11/2009 16:57
Report abuse
@ Jim, London, UK
Am very qualified thank you and do a highly skilled, enjoyable job. Great money, put in more hours than any public sector worker. Best of all I walk to work.
Enjoy the high level of TAX I pay for you and your layabout socialists mates.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 11/11/2009 16:57
Report abuse
As Keith said, this is nothing new, it has been happening since the end of October!
Us poor dolts on the Sutton route have had major troubles for the last couple of weeks, I witnessed people at Loughborough Junction waiting for the 8.16 and not being able to get on a train till 9am due to two cancellations, the 8.34 being late and full, and the 8.51 arriving late.
The venom the posters are displaying seems to be because they think it is like the Tube situation. It isn't. FCC have shown their imcompetence in many aspects previously, so I think I side with the drivers.
Not to mention breakdowns of the rolling stock...
- Sam Cullen, London, UK, 11/11/2009 16:39
Report abuse
Bob Crow or the Plague. What is worse?
Discuss.
- Peter, London, 11/11/2009 16:37
Report abuse
Perhaps the railway companies should simply employ enough drivers to be able to run a service without relying on staff to volunteer for overtime.
Frank, Home Counties - your posts are becoming boring.
Why the jealousy of train drivers - did you fail the aptitude tests? Keep trying, there are always vacancies!
- Jim, London, UK, 11/11/2009 16:34
Report abuse
The drivers should be lucky that they have a job. There are thousands who do not. If they don't like the working conditions or wages then leave and let others do the job.
- Jan, Romford, 11/11/2009 16:33
Report abuse
There is no doubt that commuters have suffered enough over the years.I have a suggestion which I believe should satisfy the unions and more importantly not inconveince travellers.Instead of striking, why not continue to work but refuse to accept fares until their demands are met. Open up the turnstiles and let the public travel travel for free until the management and unions reach an agrweement.
- Tony, London, 11/11/2009 16:32
Report abuse
If you don't like your job and believe you are underpaid...leave and proove your worth!
- John Entwistle, Hertford, England, 11/11/2009 16:28
Report abuse
I just cannot believe in the 21st century that any company that operates a 7 day a week, has to rely on overtime being worked so that it can provide a Sunday service.
Time these train drivers got real and had a duty rosta which regarded the inclusion of Saturday and Sundays as normal working days, compensated by days off in the week.
If everyone else can do it what is so special about train drivers? Seems to me their Union is living in the past.
- Brian G, Norfolk Gorleston, 11/11/2009 16:22
Report abuse
I use the FCC Thameslink line everyday to work..... it's so hit and miss, it's ridiculous. Trains are more often late by several minutes or cancelled completely than actually on time during rush hours. This is "normal" service. This past week has been really bad.
However, I have to agree that if a train company has to rely on running a normal service by depending on drivers working overtime, they should be hauled over hot tar. What kind of management do they have?
Luckily, I am in a position to be able to switch to using busses while this mess gets sorted out..... I feel for those that are not able to do so.
Demand refunds on your Travel Cards.....
- Paul, London UK, 11/11/2009 16:20
Report abuse
Interesting that Elaine Holt (the former FCC managing director)and a number of her cronies have recently move over to Directly Operated Railways MPs for the constituencies through which FCC operate should get her to explain how the drivers got this bizarre contract on wht should be a 24x7 operation. This is just like chief executives of councils and NHS trusts. They screw up and move elsewhere for ever increasing rewards whilst everyone else suffers!
Bobby do some lateral thinking and ask FCC to drop their fares and you will be the commuters hero!
- Michael De Ferrari, London, 11/11/2009 16:14
Report abuse
Whatever most people think its not always the RMT at fault so why does Bob Crow keep getting stick here "aslef represents MOST of the firm's 600 drivers" dispute seems to be between drivers and fcc, so why is Aslef's Keith Norman let of the hook? just a thought.
- Dez, London, 11/11/2009 16:04
Report abuse
Love the picture! Snarl, snarl.
- B Lane, London, 11/11/2009 15:55
Report abuse
I like Bob Crow. He sticks up for his workers because no one else will. yes, it is a pain for me commuting but so is low wages,long hours and job insecurity. I wish more people had his Unions gumption.
- Gary, London, 11/11/2009 15:49
Report abuse
I emailed your Editor this morning regarding this dispute which has now been causing increasing chaos over a period of approximately 3 weeks. I also emailed both ASLEF and RMT asking for the real cause of this dispute as we commuters have not been given much information by FCC apart from 'cancelled due to non-availability of drivers'. I do not personally agree with the greed of large private sector companies who own rail franchises and I do believe that the MD of FCC recently resigned which in theory leaves a 'rudderless ship'. I do personally agree that no working man or woman should be forced to work on their rest day - how can FCC plan and issue their timetables on the basis that train drivers will work their rest day ?
What I don't agree with is the people who ultimately pay wages to FCC staff and no doubt large bonuses (to board and maybe senior management only)are made to suffer yet again - us, the poor commuters and passengers who pay a handsome price to use this 'service' as we have little choice if we actually want to get to work each day !
I assume FCC will be offering refunds for the days when we are not actually able to use our season tickets ? The words fat and chance spring to mind......
- Andy Woodhead, London, ENGLAND, 11/11/2009 15:47
Report abuse
Red = Stop
Go on strike, hold public to ransom
Green = Go
Go on strike, hold public to ransom
Collect £40,000 for a 35-hour week (Data = Telegraph Online 11 Jun 2009)
Socialism ~ you can't beat it.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 11/11/2009 15:33
Report abuse
First Capital Connect's service is shoddy at the best of times. This latest disruption is the last straw.
I have lost any sympathy with the whingeing, wining train drivers. Poor diddums having to work 35 hours a week. Feel lucky you have a job at all. There are plenty of people who would happily step into your shoes in the current economic climate.
Pre-christmas jollies are the true reason for the strikes no doubt.
- Mike, St Albans, 11/11/2009 15:28
Report abuse
For once Bob Crow has a valid point! Why should train driver be expected to work overtime on their rest days! surely the answer is to get more train drivers be cause if the current ones are working on their rest days surely that has a safety implication re tiredness and stress.
- Jh, London, 11/11/2009 15:25
Report abuse
"Today 50 trains were cancelled and 24 had fewer carriages or called at fewer stations. Trains that did run between Bedford and Brighton this morning, especially those into London, were packed."
We have been enduring this number of cancellations since the middle of last week - it is nothing new. Every day it seems like fewer and fewer trains are being run. In addition to being shorted-formed, many of the trains that do run are also running up to 20 minutes late.
The "service" seems to be getting worse each day.
- Keith, London, 11/11/2009 15:12
Report abuse
Bob Crow is the kind of thing you normally scrape of your shoe, his soul purpose in life seems to be making the majority of the general public miserable, the Bedford to Brighton route is routinely delayed with trains cancelled/ late or only 4 carriages, If the service ran punctually and the staff had the common sense to inform passengers when things are delayed or not working properly, instead of sulking behind the barriers then we might have more sympathy for them!
- Ken, Elstree, 11/11/2009 15:01
Report abuse
Profit today, gone tomorrow.
Do these people not understand keeping funds in reserve. Perhaps they should use their strike days to learn about cashflow and recession.
- Smb, London, UK, 11/11/2009 14:41
Report abuse
Enjoy your power while you can Mr Crow. I suspect that this time next year with a new government in power you and you union will suffer the same fate as Arthur Scargill and his friends.
- John David, London, 11/11/2009 14:38
Report abuse
Do you keep your stock photos of Mr Crow in a folder named "surly and potentially violent" ? Heaven forbid you would publish one of him smiling or just looking ordinary...
- Richard, London UK, 11/11/2009 14:20
Report abuse
