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A police investigation has been launched after a group of Scouts allegedly hurled death threats at Jewish war heroes at a Remembrance Day service.
Witnesses told how members of the 30-strong group, wearing full uniform, repeatedly shouted “Let's kill the Jews” at ex-servicemen attending the parade in Essex to honour the fallen.
The senior Explorer Scouts at the centre of the storm are all aged between 14 and 18 and come from Romford.
They had lined up in the procession escorted by adult leaders as hundreds of ex-soldiers marched to Romford's cenotaph shortly after 10am.
The Rev Lee Sunderland, who was attending the service, said he heard racist abuse being hurled at the Romford branch of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women, and immediately alerted a senior police officer just feet away.
Mr Sunderland said: “I was shocked at what I heard. It was even more shocking because of the nature of the group who were saying these things. I heard here come the Jews, let's kill the Jews'.
“It was said four times — three times during the service of remembrance.”
Jewish Second World War hero Paul Freedman MBE, 84, who laid a wreath during the service, said the behaviour was appalling.
The RAF veteran said: “I was absolutely fuming when I heard what had happened.
“I told them that I was a Jew and I'd spent four and a half years in the RAF during World War Two and that Jewish people had sacrificed so much for freedom. They didn't react to any of this.” Scout county commissioner Dean Jefferys issued a full apology, adding: “I understand a senior police officer spoke to all of the Explorer Scouts at the time of the incident.
“Although the originator of the comments could not be identified, I understand that all the young people were left in no doubt as to the seriousness of the remarks made and the consequence of further such behaviour.”
A spokesman for the Met said: “Police have received two allegations of racially aggravated harassment which allegedly occurred on Sunday 8 November in Romford town centre. These allegations are currently being investigated.”
Reader views (43)
@ Decency, London, UK
Without knowing more details about the incident, I am not sure anyone can really comment on the motivation for the antisemitism.
My suspicions are that bored immature youths egging each other on were probably behind this? I hope there is nothing more to it.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
When the president of Italy Signor Giorgio Napolitano
became President,after an anti-semitic incident said,
I will not tolerate anti-semitism in any form what so ever.
I think a word from the Prime Minister would not hurt.
By the way,anti-semitic incidents in Italy are very few and far between.
- David Nigel Braham, Milan Italy
It is the left, the liberal media and certain Muslim groups who have deliberately brought back open Jew hatred to Britain, not the BNP. They use the excuse of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, which is almost always reported in a totally biased, and borderline anti-semitic, manner by the likes of the BBC, Guardian and Independent, to stir up hatred against any and all Jews and then hypocritically bemoan the rise in hatred of Muslims caused by the actions of extremists in the name of that religion.
It is very clear that in modern Britain there is once again one rule for the Jews and another one for everyone else, and that is very much to the disadvantage of British Jews.
- Md, London, UK
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Couldn't pt it better myself Md. Hear hear!
- Mike Patton, London
It's a shame a handful of Scouts who make nasty comments gets reported in the press, yet the thousands of members of the Scout Association and GirlGuiding UK who paraded on Sunday without saying anything don't get a mention.
I'm not defending these Scouts, but why is it only the small number of ‘bad’ teenagers gets press attention and never the majority of good teenagers. Most members in Scouting & Guiding raise money & offer help for charities.
- Tawny Owl, Surrey
Oh dear, some of these boys sound more like Hitler Youth members than do a good deed for the day Scouts - who taught them that?
- Becky, Bristol
@ Frank, Home Counties
These are not 7 year olds, I, and indeed most civilised humans, would expect young adults to know that those remarks are way out of line.
- Decency, London, UK
Ironically many BNP members are British Army/ ex-British army.
- Daniel, London
So what is the Scout Association going to do? They should disband the group, all of it, hand back their group regalia to headquarters and then, and only then, should they be offered the option of rejoining another group. if they don't want to, fine.
- Mike, London
You are so right, Md, London, UK,It would be interesting to know the religious profile of the boys who abused them.I do know for a fact that Jewish cemeteries that have been vandalised in the past it is always put down to members or sympathisers of the BNP,when in actual fact most of the atacks on cemeteries of Jews were/are perpetrated by Muslim youths.
- Kev, London-UK
Dear Kevin Sullivan. I assume you didn't live through the 1970s. This sort of thing was so common then that it wasn't even reported, unlike now, when we are rightly shocked by such behaviour. My brother went to secondary school in the late '70s with numerous bonehead kids who would openly write 'NF' on their canvas satchels. Can you imagine what would happen now to any child who did that? Ah, the good old days, when it was fine to call someone a P**i or a Y*d! There have always been idiots, and there always will be. There's no way the world is a worse place now than it was 30 years ago, and it's lazy and ill-informed to suggest otherwise, or blame the so-called 'liberal' media, etc. Change the record.
- Lj, London
this defies belief. What a terrible world we live in where this could happen.
- Squiz, Islington
You don't think the number of ex-servicemen in prison/sleeping rough is in any way connected with the very poor provision for soldiers suffering from post-traumatic stress disorders - frequently undiagnosed - and the general lack of interest/empathy from the civilians they were serving in helping them reintegrate from being shot at and having mates blown up and then to sitting watching TV and binge-drinking like rest of the populace? One of the reasons civilians don't seem to have much empathy is that nowdays so few have a direct personal link to the Armed Forces: perhaps some form of National Service would help civilians appreciate their dedication and professionalism? The Army, in particular, gives great shape and an appropriate channel to natural aggression to a great many young men whose lives would otherwise be wasted in gang warfare/drugs/crime/sitting on the sofa with a PS2. NS might also make EVERYONE more choosy about sending other people's children to war BEFOREHAND.
The little tics who shouted this should be educated as to how many of them would have died in the next 5 years if this had been 1914. Nolan: dwell on the enormous sacrifices of your own grandmothers and great-aunts who had all the brothers and young men of their acquaintance killed off in one war and then sent their sons and husbands to another war so that people of all races might live freely in Britain today, before trying to portray the Armed Forces as something negative through sly debate.
- Roz, France
@ Decency, London, UK
Educating our youth? What a vile concept.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
"This "feral" nonsense gets thrown around all the time"
Not really, possibly in the media but I've never heard it crop in normal conversation.
"It's just the "in thing" to insult children with at the moment."
I think you're being disingenuous here, I don't believe that anyone's actually blaming it on all children, it’s simply a label, it applies to a cross section of todays youth and realistically the blame lies not with the children but with their parents, I think perhaps your Walter Mitties are getting the better of you like all Liberals.
“ However you're going to define it, it's hardly likely that kids who join the scouts are "feral", is it?”
Again, you’re leaping to assumptions, I had a friend from a middle class family, who went to scouts, did well academically but used to sneak out of the house at 2am in the morning and steal motorbikes and break into cars, his parents weren’t bothered and the only person who really guided him was his older brother, where does he fit into your proposal? Take off the rose tinted glasses and have a proper look around you.
- Bob, Cheam
The scum who did this should be kicked out of the scouts and banned from bing a member of any similar group.
I'm sure Baden-Powell didn't create the Scouts with the intention of it being an anti-semitic party.
- Nowan, London
It is the left, the liberal media and certain Muslim groups who have deliberately brought back open Jew hatred to Britain, not the BNP. They use the excuse of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, which is almost always reported in a totally biased, and borderline anti-semitic, manner by the likes of the BBC, Guardian and Independent, to stir up hatred against any and all Jews and then hypocritically bemoan the rise in hatred of Muslims caused by the actions of extremists in the name of that religion.
It is very clear that in modern Britain there is once again one rule for the Jews and another one for everyone else, and that is very much to the disadvantage of British Jews.
- Md, London, UK
This "feral" nonsense gets thrown around all the time as if it has some meaning when it clearly does not. It's just the "in thing" to insult children with at the moment. However you're going to define it, it's hardly likely that kids who join the scouts are "feral", is it?
I'd guess that those who suggest that "national service" would be a good thing for young people are unaware that 10% of our prison population is made up of former soldiers and more than 20,000 former servicemen are currently in prison, on probation or parole?
These anti-semitic comments are a disgrace, as is the cowardice of the perpetrator who has not come forward to own up to them.
- Nolan, Londonist
When you see how much our society has changed over the past 30 years, all, I can say is, that there is nothing that I could hear about, or, read in the newspapers that would shock, or surprise me! The question we should be asking is who, and, what is to blame, and, what are we going to do about it? I fear I already know the answer!
- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London
When i read things such as this i am truly outraged.It makes me hate this country,is this how we educate our young?And i know there are many good young people out there,but scum like these just get young people today a bad name.What is happening in the UK today?And why have they not been prosecuted? They should receive a really harsh punishment.And i would like to say to Bj, East London,The pogrom against the Jews started with name calling in Nazi Germany! And it should not be taken lightly.No doubt these types will call and threaten other groups, as this behaviour shows they have a flawed character IE are prejudice against others who are not of there kind.Bj,i would flog them,then jail them and re educate them.We must not view this lightly for all our sakes.And no I'm not Jewish,I'm and ex old hippy who is profoundly disappointed and dismayed in the direction this country is going in,and like many I'm bloody angry.
- Kev, London-UK
EDITED by admin @ 14.45 on November 13 2009
Breach of community guidelines
- Thomas Hayes, Leeds UK
Mark and BNR, so the BBC are to blame? What a ridiculous suggestion! More likely the BNP with a strong presence in that area, who preach hatred of non Christians, non whites and those not like them. They mourn our victory in WWII rather than celebrate it. The radical Muslims who abused our boys returning from Afghanistan were rightly and strongly condemned and so should these young hooligans. Or do these brave veterans not deserve respect because they are Jewish and therefore not British in racist's eyes?
- Veritas Noire, Purley
The Scouts and Guides at the Remembrance Parade in Hornchurch (near Romford) which I attended behaved in their usual exemplary manner.
I think it is very sad that this young person in Romford has been so corrupted by the anti-Israel and by extension anti-Jewish propagandaconstantly pumped out by the BBC, the Guardian and other pro Palestinian organisations that he has been inspired to behave so badly.
- Ca Metcalfe, Hornchurch
How about a dose of National Service to sort all the youth out.
- Richard Edmunds, Rayleigh UK
Another person banging on about national service and tarring all youth with the same brush. Have you done national service yourself? Why should my kids have to mix with these oiks and be used by the governement as cannon fodder in some worthless war.
- Dc, London
It is just banter from a bunch of immature teenagers who had failed to appreciate the profound nature of the event. A bit of education will soon sort that out. Let's not over react.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
I dont't know whats more vile, the youths in question or this type of attitude?
- Decency, London, UK
Youth do sometimes make inappropriate remarks but they also know that there is a time and a place, furthermore they did it 4 times. No excuse.
I would have thought that the youths in question should make an apology not the Scouts. If this was a full blown white on black racist incident they would all have been arrested and also thrown out the Scouts by now, not so in this case?.
But don't worry, assuming they are hauled before the courts they will be given silly sentences that they will then wear as an honour. I wonder how tolerant a BNP, UKIP or independent led government would be to this type of behaviour.
- Steve, London
I used to be proud to be British. Now I hate my own country.
- Paul, London
The appalling nature of this incident raises many questions about what influences have contributed to make these young people and their like elsewhere, behave in such a way. Most certainly a great, if not the greatest most influential contributor is the parental one. One would need a lot of time and space to cover the range of parental failure.
In the present society (which we deserve, because we've allowed it to evolve unchecked)one is very limited in what one can do to address this particular offence adequately. I would much rather see the entire group being brought to some understanding of how cruel, unjust and abhorrent their attitudes are, expelling them will just send them out into the world with their bigotry intact. The actual Scout leadership in Romford should be subject to examination by their governing body. In the first instance to answer how those in their charge for character building etc. could ever behave so offensively. To further explain how those in charge of the group on the day, did not admonish them IN FULL VIEW OF THOSE THERE TO HONOUR THE FALLEN, which was the very least that should have been done. However unpleasant and disruptive, such action would have made the clearest possible statement about the total unacceptability of such loutish, disrespectful behaviour.
- Sam, Worcester Park
Is this the BNP branch of the Scouts? BJ, all kids of a certain age act up, the difference is that until recently it seems that they all had enough respect for adults and ceremony to not do it in exactly these kinds of situations. They're just feral now.
- 888, London
As an explorer scout leader i was appalled to hear this.
I just hope the actions of the few are not regarded as that of the many...
In my area at least the remembrance service was pulled up with nothing but the utmost respect.
- Tom, Newbury
Do you really think these little toe rags are watching the BBC? Hope they are disciplined for this appalling behaviour. What have we come to when our war veterans are being verbally abused?
- Goggs, London
surely this can't be true, or maybe I am just struggling to accept it.
how utterly despicable.
- Scotty, London
The sickening thing is that these vile insults have probably been inherited from the views of equally vile and ignorant parents. And will be passed down to the next generation too. Words without any understanding of what they really mean.
It is easy to point the finger at the State, the BBC and the Labour party etc. However whichever party is in power, the same citizens will be present.
The dumbing down of the education system, from parents through to schools and universities, as a whole is at the root cause of this where political correctness prevails and prevents the objective teaching of what happened in the Great War and WWII.
- Mike, St Albans
How about a dose of National Service to sort all the youth out.
- Richard Edmunds, Rayleigh UK
This goes against everything the SA stands for and consequently they should expel the whole lot.
- Mark, South-East London
I blame the BBC. Just look at the bias in their coverage of Israel. These scouts think Jews spend all their time killing peaceful Muslim kiddies for fun.
- James Morris, Witney, Oxfordshire
It is just banter from a bunch of immature teenagers who had failed to appreciate the profound nature of the event. A bit of education will soon sort that out. Let's not over react.
- Frank, Home Counties, England.
Contemptible behaviour.
Barely believable.
The solid anti Israel bias of the BBC & co
may be leaching down.
- British Not Racist, Reading
Labour has financed a generation of feral yobs reasoning that they can prop up the failing pension system, in fact they've been throwing money at people who are having children for the wrong reasons. These people want greater welfare benefits not to be a parents, the result being children brought up with no moral compass. No party has the cojones to admit this or has even contemplated a solution to dig our way out of the current hole, they'd rather just spin over the top than try to resolve a fractured society.
- Bob, Cheam
.....what has happened to the decency and respect of this country? And why can't the perpetrator be identified......there were only 30 boys in the Scout group represented. As a Londoner, this totally disgusts me. But then again, London isn't the same place it used to be.
- Jason, London
Absolutely vile and disgusting behaviour, they must be punished.
- Teddy, Islington, London
What do you expect?
WHY did 400,000 service men and women sacrifice their lives in WW2.
No discipline in the home.
No discipline in the skools.
Riff-raff allowed to spout venom at honourable peeps' memories.
Welcome to a wholly demoralised UK, now known as EUSSR.
- Reuben Camara, Plot 1, Morecambe Compound, EUSSR
Ugh what disgusting behaviour. I would expect so much better from the Scout Association; I hope the offenders are expelled with immediate effect!
- Alison, London
About 30 years ago I was at a National Marching Band contest when I heard, back stage, members of the Thurrock Marching Brass (Essex) chanting to a scout band, "I'd rather be a P*** than a scout". Even then I was taken aback that the youth leaders thought it was all good banter.
My point is that teeagers make insensitive comments and we should not to over react. The youth leaders must be seen to be educating their charges.
- Bj, East London
