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Harman Bill could lead to ban on Christmas celebrations
Nicholas Cecil, Deputy Political Editor17 Nov 2009
Catholic bishops today warned that Harriet Harman's Equality Bill could mean bans on Christmas celebrations.
The bishops fear that the Bill is so complex that interpreting it could lead to bizarre decisions by town halls and other organisations.
The Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales also told MPs that campaign groups could take legal action in an attempt to have the Bill enforced in ways which fit their agenda.
“Under existing legislation, we have seen the development of a risk-averse culture with outcomes as ridiculous as reports of a local authority instructing tenants to take down Christmas lights in case they might offend Muslim neighbours, or of authorities removing the word Christmas out of cultural sensitivity to everyone except Christians,” the bishops said in evidence to the parliamentary committee examining the Bill.
“If this Bill is serious about equality, everything possible must be done to avoid it having a chilling' effect on religious expression and practice.”
The Bill, being promoted by Labour deputy leader Ms Harman, strengthens protection for minority groups by placing a new equality duty on public bodies. Church officials said this meant town halls and other public organisations would be expected to foster good relations and equality of opportunity between people of different faiths.
But they are concerned that these new rules could be wrongly interpreted by councils who could introduce restrictions on Christmas activities.
Senior Catholics have also complained that exceptions previously made for employment laws for the purposes of organised religion, are being narrowed down to individuals involved in formal worship activities.
They say this could lead to them having to appoint youth workers and members of marriage preparation teams whose lifestyle is “at variance” with the Church's teachings, such as divorcees.
A Government Equalities Office spokesman denied that the Bill would impact on Christmas. “That's ridiculous; of course local councils can still put up Christmas tree lights or mark any other religious ceremony such as Diwali, Eid or Ramadan,” he said.
Reader views (63)
The decision by councils to fob people off with 'Winter Lights' is far more likely to have financial reasons. For example, there is a huge mark-up on anything wedding-related. The same is the case for anything xmas, including lights and decorations. When that's on a grand scale (for a whole town) the cost spirals. Why not get a job lot of white lights and call the festival 'Winterval' or something else that avoids the xmas mark-up and the expectation of the public to see colourful expensive custom lights in the shape of Santa etc - they'll call me a genius thinks the bureaucrat.
I once worked in a government department where Senior management (who incidentally were all white and English) cancelled the xmas party solely to save money in order to look good in the eyes of their seniors. When the hub-bub grew they hastily claimed that it was done so as not to offend other religions. Everyone turned on the people of other faiths who had to publicly keep professing to love xmas with a passion in order to prove it had nothing to do with them.
Needless to say, management didn't intervene to clear the situation up and save their ethnic colleagues. They did however, back down though before the poo hit their fan.
- Kev, East London, England, 14/12/2009 16:39
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It warms my heart to read the ignorant remarks about Christmas from across the pond. Kerry from Purley & Dahn Raj you are as dumb as Americans about CHRIST-mas! Kerry you need to lose that mantra about Winter solstace and study the reason why Christmas is celebrated when it is. We all know Christ wasn't born in December, but we celebrate his birth as Savior.
- Carol, Anaheim, California USA, 24/11/2009 20:27
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Harperson and her half-wit cabinet colleagues are legislating our culture away just to satisfy the PC lobby - who we all know are barking mad.
I don't think there is a snowball in Hell's chance that this legislation will ever get onto the Statute Book before the next election; so relax everybody it's not going to happen!
- John Bull, London, 18/11/2009 13:45
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"A Government Equalities Office spokesman denied that the Bill would impact on Christmas.“. Shouldn't it be "A Government Equalities Office SPOKEPERSON"?
- Julian, London, 18/11/2009 13:39
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I think the bigger point is being missed. Our country, our laws, our culture and even our national persona have been shaped by our history which includes our language and religion. Are we happy to just abandon all that to avoid risking offence? I thought the multicultural agenda was ditched last year to much aplause. Or as usual are NuLabour quite happy to continue following a policy that even they themselves do not believe in.
- Mark, London, 18/11/2009 13:02
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Oh please somebody get rid of this woman, send to mars, shoot her or something!!! I'm sick of seeing and hearing about the rubbish that comes out of her mouth
- British, LONDON, 18/11/2009 12:59
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In countries that really understand how to embrace diversity, they don't go around treading on religion. They might separate church and state, as in the US, but I don't recall anyone complaining about the Christmas tree at the Rockefeller centre each year. What I do recall is my orthodox Jewish colleague wishing me the warmest Christmas greeting I ever heard from anyone.
In Brazil, one of the world's most diverse countries, they have the world's biggest statue of Jesus Christ, nearly as big as the chip on Harman's shoulder.
- Andrew, Hampton Hill, ex NYC, 18/11/2009 11:36
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This ghastly women must go.
- David, Fleet UK, 18/11/2009 08:51
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I see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth. However, this is not about silly Harpersons weird ideas, but the disgusting bigots of the Church foisting their deluded drivel on the rest of us. Christmas is a pagan festival hijacked by the church. I love Christmas but not its religious nonsense.
- Kerry, Purley, 17/11/2009 22:25
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I do not think Harman could produce something which is complex. However the more equality is rammed down my throat the less likely I am to comply.
- Malcolm May, Windsor, UK, 17/11/2009 22:12
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Remember - it's NEVER muslims, hindus or people of other faiths who want to ban Christmas and Easter celebrations. It's always trendy, secular, lefty atheists who can't stand Christianity and use other faith groups being 'offended' by this or that British/Christian custom to promote their own agenda.
- Sarahn, London, UK, 17/11/2009 21:03
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I receive Christmas cards from Muslim friends, what am I to do return them? Also am I allowed to send Hebrew New Year cards to my Jewish neighbours or not? All the Muslims I know think that this kind of attitude adds to racial problems. The Muslims do not cause the tension the government does. Harriet please do something worthwhile, if at all possible. Now you cannot tally up your expenses bills you appear to be a little short of something useful to do.
- Vivienne Genchi, Romford Essex, 17/11/2009 20:44
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Cannot this ghastly woman be dumped before getting the boot before next June ? She is of course wrecking any chance of Labour beating the Liberals into second place.
People should perform in order to obtain equality, particularly the second division faiths. we are a Christian country first and foremostW
- Michael, London, UK, 17/11/2009 19:58
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I saw left wing morons like Harman in the colleges during the 1970s. Now they're in power - and they haven't grown up. Good job we've only got a few months to go before we can get rid of Labour forever.
- Stan Mason, Bristol, 17/11/2009 19:56
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Roll on the elections.
I know who i won't be voting for
- Hunsa, ilford, 17/11/2009 19:21
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This Goverment has got to stop this nonsense. We cannot afford to accommodate every Religion/Belief. Where does the Budget come from? THE TAX PAYER. WE the tax payer cannot afford for you to buy votes for next election
- Bill Francis-Williams, Beaumont Pied de Beouf, 17/11/2009 19:13
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John David, London - can we say "Agenda"? It was YOUR comment that had nothing to do with Christmas (a fundamental part of christianity and therefore VERY relevant to the different churches, not just the RCs).
- Rogan, Irving, 17/11/2009 18:28
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Thankfully we will soon see the last of this spiteful woman Harman and her awful government.
- Peter, Watford UK, 17/11/2009 18:13
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Brace yourselves people, for the New World Order commences.
Our friends and the general public will police each other. There will be no more choices, for the choices will be made for us. This is a new dawn, prepare to Accept, Abide and Obey.
- Max, Wimbledon, london, 17/11/2009 18:11
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Don't be distracted by hate campaigns at HH. It is not the bill but the way certain elements will use it to try to discredit religious people everywhere. It is not ridiculous to think some will interpret it such a way as to have Winterval - they already have in several places. Religious people in general are happy to respect each other's festivals, including the Christian ones, and it is these which are the basis of our society still. Beware secularists who wish to deprive us completely of these freedom of choices. They are the ones who come up with "Muslims are offended by Christmas lights" rubbish, to service their own agenda.
- Carol, London UK, 17/11/2009 18:08
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This Harpoison zealotry has nothing whatsoever to do with any "ethnic minorities" taking offence and everything to do with the fact that Harpoison and her comrades are venemous, sour, embittered people (mostly female) who want to punish, punish, punish, destroy, cancel, make grim and wipe out any trace of lightness, joy, merriment and spirituality in Britain (except of course if it's anyone other than the indigenous population who are enjoying themselves). she and her ilk are seriously weird.
- Judith C, London, England, 17/11/2009 18:02
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"A Government Equalities Office spokesman denied that the Bill would impact on Christmas. “That's ridiculous; of course local councils can still put up Christmas tree lights or mark any other religious ceremony such as Diwali, Eid or Ramadan,” he said."
That's about typical for such a spokesman - the claim was that the bill would be so confusing that local authorities might OVER-apply the regulations (and how unusual would THAT be?!!!), not that they would not put up their own christmas decorations as he implies.
- Rogan, Irving, 17/11/2009 17:46
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How can somebody be offended by a tree?
To those who say it's no big deal - think what the reaction would if Ramadan was called 'Autumn Fasting Festival'.
Local authorities, ministers and their advisers: nutbags
- Declan W, Kings X, London, 17/11/2009 17:15
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@ Kev, London-UK
Nobody wants this Bill sunshine.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 17/11/2009 17:07
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What a marriage Harman and Balls would make with the amount of rubbish they keep trying to introduce!
- Tojo, Hythe, Kent, 17/11/2009 16:58
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Well conkers , bonfire night and christmas nearly gone . What do we call an "Easter egg" nowadays? What an unhappy childhood they must have had.
I would love to know if there is a 50/50 male/female split of civil servants in her department.Of course there may be if we include tea ladies and secretaries.
Labour have had enough time to make serious changes in this area but they didnt as some like Harman prefer to be the "special" females.They prefer to concentrate on destroying our culture. Well they mostly go south for the holidays so do they care?
- Terry, Hennebont France, 17/11/2009 16:52
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Our traditions and history are the roots beneath our feet, and thou we must go on evolving and growing, I have yet to see a tall, strong, regal, healthy oak tree reach for the sky, just having chopped of it's roots.
I want us to grow and evolve as a society, proud of our roots. But, I can see no future for a nation that has no respect or regard for it's history and culture.
Stop stealing our freedoms and casting off our customs. If people come here to live, they come to share our life. do you take my freedom so that a new thought may crush my memory?
You are a sad bunch! I am a proud Brit! Not a BNP. I'm just a broad minded Brit, yet you want to kill my broadminedness.
Harman, you and your like are fools. Have you no pride?
- Maria, London, 17/11/2009 16:33
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That settles it; I can no longer vote for Labour.
- St, London, 17/11/2009 16:31
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The Catholic Church using any means to try and defeat this bill. This has nothing to do with Christmas and everything to do with them still being allowed to peddle bigotry against members of society like homosexuals. This is the true agenda.
- John David, London, 17/11/2009 16:20
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I am a christian black man who was born in UK. I have a lot of Muslem and Hindu friends who call to which me happy christmas and have actually invited me to their house on thier Eid festival. The Point is that i haven't met any one from an ethnic minority background who is offended by Christmas tree or light or any religious festivity for that matter. I don't know who gives these politicians the idea that they are doing this for minorities.
At my work place, Muslem collagues orgnanised Id-Ul-Fitr lunch of which a lot of us non-muslems attended and enjoyed. It gives us the opportunity to learn what Islam is all about.
I think this is what our cluless politian should be encouraging the society embarce and not supressing it.
- Charles, London, 17/11/2009 16:18
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Why does the Archbishop of Canterbury never give a lead on things like this?
- John Punshon, Milton Keynes (ex-Leyton), 17/11/2009 16:17
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If we had a credible 'Opposition', which sadly we don't, they'd keep a public tally of measures past and current which would be repealed with a single Bill, already drafted, within the first session of a new Parliament. (I can think of a Treaty to add to that, too). Relief of penalties, and of any financial detriment, could be made retrospective from the date that the measure was announced added to the tally. Then we could see who to vote for.
- Steve, London, England, 17/11/2009 16:16
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Can`t they find Harriet something worthwhile to do? She`s obviously got too much time on her hands. How many more barmy ideas is she going to come up with between now and May. Can`t Gordon find something worthwhile for her to do in Afghanistan?
- Brian G, Norfolk Gorleston, 17/11/2009 16:09
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Half the parliamentry labour party are solicitors or lawyers. Sometimes I think the produce legislation that is deliberately ambiguous so they can ensure jobs for themselves once they have been booted out.
- Keith, London, 17/11/2009 16:08
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All this story proves is how credulous and misinformed the Catholic Bishops' Conference are by referring to "reports" of incidents which never happened.
- Helen, West London, 17/11/2009 16:05
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I know where I am going to shove my Christmas tree.
Having bent over backwards to accommodate Ramadan, Eid and Diwali (which I think is very important for our modern society) it is only right that Christians and Jews (too often the neglected religion) are given the same leeway to celebrate our religious festivals on the same level.
Any suppression of celebrations should be met by proceeding to celebrate Christmas and Hannukkah in the correct way rather than aggressive protests.
- Mike, St Albans, 17/11/2009 16:02
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In Peterborough you should see the local shopping centre it has no decorations as such the father christmas grotto looks like a box they do not even want the shops to show anything of christmas this is our country if if these people do not lie it they know what they have to do. why should we be forced to join in with other religious celebrations why should we. I think we should start a campaign to get our christmas back again and shout these people down come on evening standard how about you starting one up lets say NO to these people
- Jacqui Williams, peterborough cambs, 17/11/2009 16:00
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Don't be silly. Nobody's going to cancel your Xmas. Its usual rubbish we get about this time of the year. I'm convinced its a cunning plot by subversive town hall officials to spread fear and disharmony in our communities. Muslims, Hindus Jews and Sikhs will just have to put up with the gaudy lights the tawdry decorations the flickering angels and the rubbish presents just like the rest of us.
- Dhan Raj, Basildon, 17/11/2009 16:00
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Harperson is off her parasite head.
She is a definite danger to democracy in the UK.
- Reuben Camara, Plot 1, Morecambe Compound, EUSSR
Here,here!
Well said Reuben - I just despair at the hideous lunacy of this ghastly woman ("Mad Hatty Harperson").
She is forever spouting poisonous,divisive and utterly draconian rhetoric which, god help us all, she is allowed to put into law because of her position.
As soon as we are rid of her, the better!
- Anon Pc, London, UK, 17/11/2009 15:58
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Oh who will rid us of this turbulent Labour Party.
- Patricia, LONDON, 17/11/2009 15:51
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Well Harperson does look a little like the Grinch and to quote the great green one "Hate, hate, hate. Hate, hate, hate. Double Hate. LOATHE ENTIRELY!" My, she even sounds a little like him !
- Cratchet, HLC, LINCOLNSHIRE., 17/11/2009 15:38
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And yet we still have people voting for these cretins.....that's the more worrying thing!
- Lb, London, 17/11/2009 15:36
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Give us an election now! All thinking people now hate Brown, Harman and Labour with a vengeance, yet they are defying the popular will by clinging to office until the last possible moment. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns - Nero was a hero by comparison with this lot. And yet it continues - the public spending deficit will be a crazy, mad and bad 14% of GDP next year.
Labour out now!
- Richard, Redditch, Worcestershire, England, 17/11/2009 15:35
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For crying out loud, England is a Christian country. If Muslims and other religious denominations are offended by Christmas celebrations, then they can move to another country where such celebrations are not practised. What´s the matter with Harriet Harman? Is she losing the plot completely these days? Why doesn´t she go the whole way and ask for a ban on all Christian church services in case other religions are offended? Silly woman!
- Graham Rodhouse, Helmond, Netherlands, 17/11/2009 15:30
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Oh dear, does this mean she could become known as "Bah Humbug Harman"?
- J Peters, London, 17/11/2009 15:14
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Why do those naughty male labour backbenchers always
vote for what nanny Harman wants.
These are the same greedy brain dead backbenchers ,who voted for the human rights charter to be incorporated into British law.More interested in fiddling their expenses, than to bother what the public want.
- Alan, Luton UK, 17/11/2009 15:01
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Is the Labour Party Hell-bent on destroying every vestage of historical connection to the British working class with their craven P.C. attempts to catch the votes of immigrants? I for one, will be looking elsewhere come election time.
- Huggy, Cumbernauld Scotland, 17/11/2009 14:59
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lIVING IN sAUDI YOU ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO GATHER FOR A MASS IN ANYONE'S HOME!! In UK which seems to be losing its CHristian ethics - what are the heads of christian organisatins doing? Closing a blind eye - turning the other cheek!!!
- J Nichols, iNDONESIA, 17/11/2009 14:54
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How much longer do we have to suffer the lunacy of this inane woman? Did we really elect her or is it all a bad dream??
- Mhmedia, Guildford, UK, 17/11/2009 14:53
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The ultra lefts "War on Christmas" continues. If people are offended by Christmas, then we, the majority of the UK, are offended by celebrations held by minorities. When the shoe is on the other Labour...More proof they imported minorities for votes, vote them out ASAP!
- Dirk Diggler, Soho, London, 17/11/2009 14:53
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Just what she and her ilk probably want, they hate anything Christian and British.
- P Staker, London, 17/11/2009 14:50
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Government Equalities Office spokesman denied that the Bill would impact on Christmas. “That's ridiculous; of course local councils can still put up Christmas tree lights or mark any other religious ceremony such as Diwali, Eid or Ramadan,” he said.
Of course it's ridiculous but do not underestimate a local Council's Jobsworth's desire to have power over the public he is supposed to be serving.
- Aylyn, Orihuela Costa,, 17/11/2009 14:49
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The PC Left don't need an equalities bill to erase Christmas. Check out the loonie left controlled Dundee council and their Christmas lights switch-on which they've renamed Winter Light Night.
- Doug Watt, london (EUSSR)14, 17/11/2009 14:42
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It seems like the Catholic church will say anything to keep their religious beliefs and dogma privileged in the public sphere above everything else. "Banning Christmas" how hysterical and ridiculous. Why should religious employers be able to dictate and control the lives of their employees when they are not directly involved in preaching their dogma? Why should religious organisations be allowed to be in a privileged position where they can enjoy public money and charitable status and still discriminate and treat others badly in situations where no other employer would be allowed. What makes religious belief and interpretation more important than other strongly held beliefs, values and morals? I seem to remember the pope using last years Christmas message to put the boot into homosexuals as a bigger threat than global warming. Hows that for Christmas spirit?
- David, London, 17/11/2009 14:41
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More proof that the Labour party are hell bent on destroying British tradition and culture to appease minorities. If Christmas offends anyone who came to this country, usually for a better life, they should serious consider moving to a nation that doesn't celebrate it. Britain is a country with Chistian values and roots and i am sick and tired of hearing people are offended by our flag, culture or anything for that matter. We have been far too tolerant and it high time we stodd up and said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
- Porky Pies, Land of Make Believe, London, 17/11/2009 14:40
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Could someone, PLEASE, teach this stupid ignorant bundle of prejudices to use what is supposed to be a brain, before she opens her mouth. Who but a fool like Brown would ever allow her into a position of reponsibility? Just shut up Harman, and start looking for a job. You won't have one for much longer.
- Pee'D Off Pensioner, London/UK, 17/11/2009 14:34
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"Catholic bishops today warned that Harriet Harman's Equality Bill could mean bans on Christmas celebrations"....Scare tactics once again being used by the catholic church,They don't wont this bill and they will do anything to stop its progress, including scare mongering and more. The last thing the catholic church wants is equality,indeed non of the monotheist religions do,inequality is the main stay of there beliefs,but I'm afraid reality wont alter to fit there particular beliefs.
- Kev, London-UK, 17/11/2009 14:11
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Just another badly thought out and drafted piece of New Labour legal rubbish. Just like the 'Uming Rites Act'. It will be so full of 'legal anomolies' that the only people who will benefit from it will be the legal proffession - 'Money for Old Rope, Big Bucks'.
Should it be that surprising with many of Labour's senior Ministers and MPs who all toyed with Communism in their student days. No doubt some of them still 'carry a candle' for Communism or something similar today.
HH (Harriet Harperson) seems to be a person full of dislike for everything and everybody!!
- Uncle Vanya, East Anglia Area UK, 17/11/2009 14:11
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Just like Labour to get rid of Christmas. As if the worst government in British history needs to do anything else to destroy this once proud country.
- Phil Jones, London UK, 17/11/2009 14:03
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I dont observe Xmas, however people like Harman must be stopped as this is an attack on our freedom of speech. Oliver Cromwell welcomed commited Cristians and God fearing men today theyu would be fined if such a bill goes through. People like her are assaulting our rites through other means.
- Jas, Farnborough UK, 17/11/2009 14:02
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Always ahead of the curve, Waltham Forest is now holding Islam awareness week, with exhibitions in libraries, and events in schools. No problem with this, but I can't remember them ever holding a Christianity or Atheism event on public premises.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been made to offer advice to gay couples wanting to adopt, but I see no sign of Kosher and Halal butchers being required to serve pork.
- Mdj E10, london uk, 17/11/2009 14:01
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OK, I'm finally convinced of the harm done by our public schools who produce such people.
- Stephen C, London, 17/11/2009 13:59
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Harperson is off her parasite head.
She is a definite danger to democracy in the UK.
- Reuben Camara, Plot 1, Morecambe Compound, EUSSR, 17/11/2009 13:48
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